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Re: This is the future of the US........
....I just want to know how illegals pay into social security when they don't get paychecks they just get cash so the business owners don't have to pay more into social security.
Greedy businesses are selling the US down the river not realizing we're the best place to own and opperate businesses
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Re: This is the future of the US........
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
....I just want to know how illegals pay into social security when they don't get paychecks they just get cash so the business owners don't have to pay more into social security.
Greedy businesses are selling the US down the river not realizing we're the best place to own and opperate businesses
Last year, Mr. Martínez paid about $2,000 toward Social Security and $450 for Medicare through payroll taxes withheld from his wages. Yet unlike most Americans, who will receive some form of a public pension in retirement and will be eligible for Medicare as soon as they turn 65, Mr. Martínez is not entitled to benefits.
He belongs to a big club. As the debate over Social Security heats up, the estimated seven million or so illegal immigrant workers in the United States are now providing the system with a subsidy of as much as $7 billion a year.
While it has been evident for years that illegal immigrants pay a variety of taxes, the extent of their contributions to Social Security is striking: the money added up to about 10 percent of last year's surplus - the difference between what the system currently receives in payroll taxes and what it doles out in pension benefits. Moreover, the money paid by illegal workers and their employers is factored into all the Social Security Administration's projections.
http://www.globalaging.org/pension/u...05/illegal.htm
The US is a great place to run a business precisely because of the unregulated labour market.
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Re: This is the future of the US........
The US is a great place to run a business because we have low taxes, a large workforce, people willing to work more than 30 hours a week and not riot, AND we have personal accountability ie if you don't do your job you get fired......Unions of course try to change all of that and they are the reason illegal immigration continues: The democrats want to feed the Unions new members and the Republicans want to drive them out of the business entirely by lowering wages.
AMERICANS dislike ILLEGAL immigrants.....regular people who move to the US and become citizens are celebrated here.
Illegals break the law coming to this country, they use services they do not pay for, I am 100% certain Mr. Martinez is in the minority of illegals when you state that he pays all the taxes and how convieniant to cite someone who is illegal and yet he's still here in the US BITCHING about paying taxes....why doesn't he learn english and go through the naturalization process like a REAL US CITIZEN.
Seven million is pocket change considering this http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2004Aug25.html
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Immigration/wm1490.cfm
http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServe...rch_localcosts
Keep it coming, ILLEGALS are no good for the American citizen
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Re: This is the future of the US........
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
The US is a great place to run a business because we have low taxes, a large workforce, people willing to work more than 30 hours a week and not riot, AND we have personal accountability ie if you don't do your job you get fired......Unions of course try to change all of that and they are the reason illegal immigration continues: The democrats want to feed the Unions new members and the Republicans want to drive them out of the business entirely by lowering wages.
AMERICANS dislike
ILLEGAL immigrants.....regular people who move to the US and become citizens are celebrated here.
Illegals break the law coming to this country, they use services they do not pay for, I am 100% certain Mr. Martinez is in the minority of illegals when you state that he pays all the taxes and how convieniant to cite someone who is illegal and yet he's still here in the US BITCHING about paying taxes....why doesn't he learn english and go through the naturalization process like a REAL US CITIZEN.
Seven million is pocket change considering this
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2004Aug25.html
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Immigration/wm1490.cfm
http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServe...rch_localcosts
Keep it coming, ILLEGALS are no good for the American citizen
More nonsensical ranting. The US is a great place for business because it's the world's biggest marketplace and there's a huge unregulated labour market to employ from. Unions are almost nonexistent in America now, and the jobs illegals do in America are almost all in nonunionised sectors.
Studies by anti-immigration groups in your links mean as much as me posting studies by pro-immigration groups -- they're just a bunch of cherry-picked factlets stiched together to make a case.
Illegals contribute seven billion a year in ss taxes -- that's billion with a "b".
The US economy relies on mass immigration to keep going.
The only reason illegals are illegal is the GOP has been able to use immigration as a political football for decades to get ignorant dummies to vote for them. Now that they need the Hispanic vote to remain competetive in national elections, they're going to have to do what the Democrats have wanted to for decades, which means bring in a legal immigration programme to allow US businesses the quantity of labour it needs. Then they'll all be legal taxpayers and you won't have any excuse for bashing them, although facts and evidence clearly don't matter to you so I'm sure you'll keep on keeping on.
My advice to you is to go back to school or work harder, then you'll be part of the America that most feels the benefit from mass immigration. It may ease the hatred a little bit. You need to understand that if immigration was a net loss to the US there'd have been an impenetrable barrier along the southern border for a century now. But it's a net gain so mass immigration is only going to continue -- the US population will soar over 450 million by 2050. To avoid getting even more bitter and twisted and to share in America's future economic success, get yourself back to school and increase your earning power.
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Re: This is the future of the US........
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Re: This is the future of the US........
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
The US is a great place to run a business because we have low taxes, a large workforce, people willing to work more than 30 hours a week and not riot, AND we have personal accountability ie if you don't do your job you get fired......Unions of course try to change all of that and they are the reason illegal immigration continues: The democrats want to feed the Unions new members and the Republicans want to drive them out of the business entirely by lowering wages.
AMERICANS dislike
ILLEGAL immigrants.....regular people who move to the US and become citizens are celebrated here.
Illegals break the law coming to this country, they use services they do not pay for, I am 100% certain Mr. Martinez is in the minority of illegals when you state that he pays all the taxes and how convieniant to cite someone who is illegal and yet he's still here in the US BITCHING about paying taxes....why doesn't he learn english and go through the naturalization process like a REAL US CITIZEN.
Seven million is pocket change considering this
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2004Aug25.html
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Immigration/wm1490.cfm
http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServe...rch_localcosts
Keep it coming, ILLEGALS are no good for the American citizen
More nonsensical ranting. The US is a great place for business because it's the world's biggest marketplace and there's a huge unregulated labour market to employ from. Unions are almost nonexistent in America now, and the jobs illegals do in America are almost all in nonunionised sectors.
Studies by anti-immigration groups in your links mean as much as me posting studies by pro-immigration groups -- they're just a bunch of cherry-picked factlets stiched together to make a case.
Illegals contribute seven billion a year in ss taxes -- that's billion with a "b".
The US economy relies on mass immigration to keep going.
The only reason illegals are illegal is the GOP has been able to use immigration as a political football for decades to get ignorant dummies to vote for them. Now that they need the Hispanic vote to remain competetive in national elections, they're going to have to do what the Democrats have wanted to for decades, which means bring in a legal immigration programme to allow US businesses the quantity of labour it needs. Then they'll all be legal taxpayers and you won't have any excuse for bashing them, although facts and evidence clearly don't matter to you so I'm sure you'll keep on keeping on.
My advice to you is to go back to school or work harder, then you'll be part of the America that most feels the benefit from mass immigration. It may ease the hatred a little bit. You need to understand that if immigration was a net loss to the US there'd have been an impenetrable barrier along the southern border for a century now. But it's a net gain so mass immigration is only going to continue -- the US population will soar over 450 million by 2050. To avoid getting even more bitter and twisted and to share in America's future economic success, get yourself back to school and increase your earning power.
I don't know where you get your facts from but UAW and the Teamsters ALONE could strike and cripple the US economy....but since Unions aren't big here I guess that doesn't matter.
My earning power is just fine and my schooling is just fine....I only worry about my taxes and why the rule of law is not being enforced.
But I suppose illegals are so fucking great because you say so and America will be better for having a bunch of people who can't even read and write in spanish much less english working and not paying taxes and leeching off of regular US citizens ....that'll cause everything to be great in the future, maybe then we can solve some real problems like world peace.
English style socialism isn't going to fly over here so don't even try to preach it to me....all this liberalism creates is DEPENDENCE ON THE GOVERNMENT and that in turn causes super high taxes and I want no part of either of them
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Re: This is the future of the US........
The Heritage Foundation is hardly an anti-immigration group, anti-ILLEGAL immigration maybe but EVERYONE should be against that maybe because it's against the law.....same with the Fair Tax group.....and the Washington Post is a reliable source as well.
And what's this "undocumented worker" pc bullshit???? They are ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS they don't want to become American, they don't want to learn English, they don't give a shit about America and yeah plenty of people have issue with that, and they aren't dolts or morons, they are regular everyday hard working Americans who take some pride in their country.
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Re: This is the future of the US........
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
The Heritage Foundation is hardly an anti-immigration group, anti-ILLEGAL immigration maybe but EVERYONE should be against that maybe because it's against the law.....same with the Fair Tax group.....and the Washington Post is a reliable source as well.
And what's this "undocumented worker" pc bullshit???? They are ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS they don't want to become American, they don't want to learn English, they don't give a S*** about America and yeah plenty of people have issue with that, and they aren't dolts or morons, they are regular everyday hard working Americans who take some pride in their country.
You are right Lyle they don't take pride in this country and they didn't build this country or it's economy but they think they are entitled to all that it offers that's why they break into the US and then have the nerve to march in protest like we owe them something or it's their God given right to be here, well they are entitled to nothing.
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Re: This is the future of the US........
...is it too much to ask that they do what other people have done? Become naturalized, pay taxes, be a part of the culture.
Don't you wonder how Mexico would treat US citizens going there illegally?
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Re: This is the future of the US........
Insted of the mexican governmet trying to help their poor they are forcing them on us Americans to give them everything that the mexican government wont therefor damageing our future for which we Americans have worked so hard secure.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9eK85hG0jo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zvm4A9IZytM
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Re: This is the future of the US........
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
The Heritage Foundation is hardly an anti-immigration group, anti-ILLEGAL immigration maybe but EVERYONE should be against that maybe because it's against the law.....same with the Fair Tax group.....and the Washington Post is a reliable source as well.
And what's this "undocumented worker" pc bullshit???? They are ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS they don't want to become American, they don't want to learn English, they don't give a shit about America and yeah plenty of people have issue with that, and they aren't dolts or morons, they are regular everyday hard working Americans who take some pride in their country.
OK, I'm going to try and pick the salient points out of all that ranting and reply to them. The main thing that bothers you seems to be increases in your taxes, so let's look in detail at increases in your taxes over the past couple of decades and how your tax situation looks over the next couple.
In 1981 when Reagan made his famous Tax Cut, tax revenues collapsed. So to make up the difference, Reagan set out a plan to increase Social Security taxes so that the extra revenue could be transferred to balance the books. So, a tax that falls mainly on low and middle-earning people, (SS taxes are only levied on the first $95000 of yearly income) was increased by 3.3% to cover tax breaks for the richest 1%. Reagan simply reduced taxes for top earners, and transferred the taxes to low/middle income earners. So, 3.3% of every dollar of the first $95000 you've earned every year since 1983 is a Reagan Tax Increase levied to pay the income tax breaks of the top 1%.
Reagan also increased taxes every year in office after that too, including the biggest single tax increase in history. And all those tax increases transferred the tax burden away from the top 1% to low/middle income earners. But I'm guessing the payroll tax is something you can relate too.
Reagan had to increase taxes every year because of the collapse in revenues caused by his tax cuts but still ran up huge budget deficits. Bill Clinton then came along and over eight years managed to wipe out the federal budget deficit and put it in surplus for the first time in generations.
The George Bush came along and offered more tax cuts. He said that his cuts would increase revenues despite what happened when Reagan tried it. Here's what happened :
Tax revenues have always doubled every ten years, which helps them just about keep pace with inflation and increased spending. Inflation and spending are increasing hugely under Bush, so we'd better hope those tax cuts are boosting revenues for the future, right? Let's look at the numbers, with historical numbers included for a bit of context :
In 1950 we had $45 billion in revenues, which jumped to $91 by 1960. The link only shows from 1962, so you'll just have to take my word for it.
From $91 billion in 1960, we jumped to $192 billion in 1970.
In 1980, revenues jumped to a massive $517 billion, although the extra revenue was inflation caused by two disastrous external oil price spikes beyond our control.
By 1990, revenues had jumped from $517 to $1032 billion, again doubling.
In 2000, revenues had doubled again from $1032 to $2025.
Bush's 2001 tax cut was backdated to Q1 2001, so the cut was in place from the first day of fiscal year 2001. So by 2005, we should have been looking at revenues in the region of $3000 billion plus the extra revenue growth from the tax cuts, right?
Here are the numbers :
2000 : $2025
Bush tax cut
2001 : $1991
2002 : $1853
2003 : $1782
2004 : $1880
2005 : $2153
Here are the numbers for income tax, the tax that is supposed to grow the most in response to a cut :
1960 : $41.7 billion
1970 : $90.4
1980 : $244.1
1990 : $466.9
2000 : $1004.5
Bush tax cut
2001 : $994.3
2002 : $858.3
Bush tax cut
2003 : $793.7
2004 : $809.0
2005 : $927.2
2006 : $1043.9
http://www.cbo.gov/budget/historical.shtml
So instead of hitting $4000 billion in revenues by the end of the decade, we're looking at over a trillion dollars a year shortfall. In a $13 trillion economy that's a big chunk of money. Obviously, taxes are going to go through the roof soon to cover that 25% revenue shortfall.
Can you guess who'll be paying that extra trillion a year, the top 1% who've doubled their share of the national income since 1980, or low/middle income earners, hmmmm?
To give you a clue let's look at what's happened to your payroll taxes since 1982. The money went straight to the General Fund (where income tax revenues are placed) to make up the shortfall there and inreturn US government bonds to the same value were placed in a Social Security fund. The thinking was that when the SS fund needed to cash those bonds to help pay for the baby boomers' retirement then the income tax payers in the General Fund would pay their debts. Now here's George Bush on that :
Bush: Social Security trust fund ‘just IOUs’
President says, ‘There is no trust fund’
PARKERSBURG, W.Va. - President Bush on Tuesday used a four-drawer filing cabinet stuffed with paper representing government IOUs that he said symbolized the Social Security trust fund’s bleak outlook for meeting Americans’ future retirement needs.
“A lot of people in America think there is a trust — that we take your money in payroll taxes and then we hold it for you and then when you retire, we give it back to you,” Bush said in a speech at the University of West Virginia at Parkersburg.
“But that’s not the way it works,” Bush said. “There is no trust ‘fund’ — just IOUs that I saw firsthand,” Bush said.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7393649/
So you can guess who's going to be paying back the trillion dollars a year, right?
And you're still worried about three or four billion a year for Undocumenteds, despite the fact that they grow the economy so fast and keep inflation down by untold more billions than this every year?
How about Bush invading Iraq, costing you five billion a week and all he's managed to do is hand the country over to a government of Iranian-backed terrorists? Does it bother you that trillions of your taxes and thousands of American lives have already gone and that the US army is fighting and dying to keep a government of Iranian-backed terrorists in power?
The Heritage Foundation and organisation like it exist to push the buttons of unknowledgeable Americans to support the aims of the billionaires who fund these foundations and think tanks. The Heritage people will also tell you that tax cuts increase tax revenues, but no reputable economist in the world agrees with them and the numbers above kinda prove them wrong on that, don't they? So even if these groups are right and illegals cost ten billion a year, it's a drop in the bucket compared to the amounts you're being shafted with by the GOP, isn't it?
Now instead of running away from answering my posts and just ranting, can you reply to the questions in the last few paragraphs please?
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Re: This is the future of the US........
.....with payroll taxes those are taxes the company fills out for the government......if someone is being paid in cash then they are off the books and therefore not subject to payroll taxes and yes that is illegal but let's figure out where these ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS work.....do they work for big business? do they work for S&P 500 companies? NO they pick fruit and veggies and they are janitors and they do menial tasks sometimes they only work part time jobs and therefore they are an easy population to sweep under the rug and away from the government's prying eyes.
#1 America has been in debt for my entire life and will be in debt long after I die, if you have a solution please write it down and send it in I am sure that the politicians who do all this pork barrel spending will budget better after you talk with them.
The average LEGAL US RESIDENT will pay back the debt if it is paid back at all....this is a cause of why jobs go to China as they buy up our debt and hold it over our heads and so now we have toys with lead paint and so on.
#2 This issue is about illegal immigration and not the war in Iraq. Yes the Iraq war has been a catastrophe so far but it takes time to have significant political gains in a country that is so fucking backwards.....and that might not be PC to say it but it's the truth....A great man once said "So long as the Arabs fight tribe against tribe, so long will they be a little people, a silly people - greedy, barbarous, and cruel, as you are." and it's as true now as it was when T.E. Lawrence said it.
And as much as people bitch about Iraq doing nothing about the situation between the Sunni and Shii'a and the Muslims and the Israelis didn't work either so trying something is better than doing nothing.
#3 The Heritage Foundation is an organization built to provide answers to political issues and it worked well for Ronald Reagan. Say what you will about his economy but he had to take over from JIMMY CARTER who drove America into the dirt....it's a hard job to right the ship once it's that far off course. He won the Cold War where's the thanks for that?....and don't say Gorby did the deed with his programs those would have been ineffective had Reagan not held strong with his policies. Reagan made Americans happy and proud to be Americans, and yes there is a drop off once government funding for everything under the sun is cut off....farmers were hurt and jobs were lost and there was a tough spot in 1980 where it looked like we were headed towards another depression but he pulled us out of it and his approval ratings dwarf anyone elses...even Bill Clinton's! He won by 80%...he was the last President that won an election by a majority, so let's not go crazy condeming the guy he was a damned good president and he did it all while being shot and nearly dying and dealing with Alzheimer's.
George W. Bush has not followed the conservative game plan, the government is bigger than ever and the spending is crazy, you are not going to get any arguement about that from me.
I guess my answers will be ridiculed and more questions will be asked and more numbers will be brought up because people hate conservatives when they don't understand the ideas behind tax cuts and the hatred of welfare and why wars sometimes need to be fought and how mistakes can be turned right in time.
For me Illegal immigrants = bad and I am not alone.
Now KL answer my question, where are you from?
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Re: This is the future of the US........
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
.....with payroll taxes those are taxes the company fills out for the government......if someone is being paid in cash then they are off the books and therefore not subject to payroll taxes and yes that is illegal but let's figure out where these ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS work.....do they work for big business? do they work for S&P 500 companies? NO they pick fruit and veggies and they are janitors and they do menial tasks sometimes they only work part time jobs and therefore they are an easy population to sweep under the rug and away from the government's prying eyes.
#1 America has been in debt for my entire life and will be in debt long after I die, if you have a solution please write it down and send it in I am sure that the politicians who do all this pork barrel spending will budget better after you talk with them.
The average LEGAL US RESIDENT will pay back the debt if it is paid back at all....this is a cause of why jobs go to China as they buy up our debt and hold it over our heads and so now we have toys with lead paint and so on.
#2 This issue is about illegal immigration and not the war in Iraq. Yes the Iraq war has been a catastrophe so far but it takes time to have significant political gains in a country that is so fucking backwards.....and that might not be PC to say it but it's the truth....A great man once said "So long as the Arabs fight tribe against tribe, so long will they be a little people, a silly people - greedy, barbarous, and cruel, as you are." and it's as true now as it was when T.E. Lawrence said it.
And as much as people bitch about Iraq doing nothing about the situation between the Sunni and Shii'a and the Muslims and the Israelis didn't work either so trying something is better than doing nothing.
#3 The Heritage Foundation is an organization built to provide answers to political issues and it worked well for Ronald Reagan. Say what you will about his economy but he had to take over from JIMMY CARTER who drove America into the dirt....it's a hard job to right the ship once it's that far off course. He won the Cold War where's the thanks for that?....and don't say Gorby did the deed with his programs those would have been ineffective had Reagan not held strong with his policies. Reagan made Americans happy and proud to be Americans, and yes there is a drop off once government funding for everything under the sun is cut off....farmers were hurt and jobs were lost and there was a tough spot in 1980 where it looked like we were headed towards another depression but he pulled us out of it and his approval ratings dwarf anyone elses...even Bill Clinton's! He won by 80%...he was the last President that won an election by a majority, so let's not go crazy condeming the guy he was a damned good president and he did it all while being shot and nearly dying and dealing with Alzheimer's.
George W. Bush has not followed the conservative game plan, the government is bigger than ever and the spending is crazy, you are not going to get any arguement about that from me.
I guess my answers will be ridiculed and more questions will be asked and more numbers will be brought up because people hate conservatives when they don't understand the ideas behind tax cuts and the hatred of welfare and why wars sometimes need to be fought and how mistakes can be turned right in time.
For me Illegal immigrants = bad and I am not alone.
Now KL answer my question, where are you from?
Look, if all you're going to do is post endless ignorant rants about immigrants this is pointless.
I already explained to you how illegal immigrants pay billions in taxes, using actual facts from the US government. You factlessly claiming otherwise is just pointless.
I'm from England and I worked in America for a number of years, may even return to work there at some point.
Now answer the questions you keep dodging
1. How happy are you that since Reagan trillions of dollars of the tax burden have been transferred from the top-earning 1% to low/middle income earners?
2. Does it bother you that a trillion dollar a year revenue shortfall caused by tax cuts for the top 1% is going to be be met by raising taxes yet again on low/middle income earners?
3. Does it bother you that trillions of your taxes and thousands of American lives have already gone and that the US army is fighting and dying to keep a government of Iranian-backed terrorists in power? Bush is actually preventing democracy in the Middle East, doesn't this bother you when US troops are supposedly fighting and dying to allow democracies to be possible there?
4. Don't you think that trillions of dollars in new taxes caused by George Bush's disastrous policies is more important than an alleged (by a right wing nutjob think tank) ten billion a year cost for illegal immigrants?
Now answer the questions, no more fact-free ranting please.
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Re: This is the future of the US........
1. Tax cuts for the rich are not transfered to the lower classes...trickle down economics doesn't work that way. You don't move the burden you just releive the burden on the people who provide jobs to the lower income brackets so that perhaps they will provide more jobs and the taxes are made back by increased spending by sales tax.
2. The last time the taxes were raised on the middle class was when Bill Clinton was in office. And just because some people have money and some people don't it doesn't make the people that have bad or the ones that have not good.....so get over that right now.
3. Bush is not preventing democracy he is providing time for the Shi'ia and Sunni's to work out their differences and need I remind you that America didn't just take off running wild with democracy after The Revolution we actually had a failed government before the one that is in effect now came into existance....it was called the Articles of Confederation. Soldiers soldier....it's their job it's what they signed up for and it's what they are paid to do....I hate it when they are used as pawns in these politics and yeah I care very deeply about our soldiers no one just sends them out to be killed needlessly without remorse not even George Bush who isn't as heartless as everyone thinks.
4. You're retreating because you have been out dueled in this debate but yes I will digress and say that ILLEGAL immigration is one of many issues that needs tending to.
I didn't rant the last time! answering doesn't mean I am going to say what you want me to say that's not answering that's copying and pasting and you might as well do that if you don't like what I have to say.
Have I provided satisfactory answers or am I going to get bitched at again???
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Re: This is the future of the US........
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
1. Tax cuts for the rich are not transfered to the lower classes...trickle down economics doesn't work that way. You don't move the burden you just releive the burden on the people who provide jobs to the lower income brackets so that perhaps they will provide more jobs and the taxes are made back by increased spending by sales tax.
I just explained to you how the tax burden has indeed been transferred from the top 1%. If you want to argue using actual numbers, go right ahead.
Tax revenues have fallen so clearly you don't "make taxes back". You remember I just showed you a trillion dollar yearly shortfall in tax revenues since the Bush tax cuts in the previous post using actual facts, right? So where are these new revenues that have been "made back" by the tax cuts, hmmm?
If cutting taxes "relieves the burden" on the top 1% so that they can invest in the economy, why did business investment fall to the lowest level since the civil war under Reagan, and why has it collapsed again under Bush 43? Why did investment hit an all-time record after Clinton raised taxes on the top 1% ?
2. The last time the taxes were raised on the middle class was when Bill Clinton was in office. And just because some people have money and some people don't it doesn't make the people that have bad or the ones that have not good.....so get over that right now.
Every government raises some of the thousands of various taxes at some point and so any administration can be accused of "raising taxes on the middle classes." The fact is that Clinton reversed the direction the tax burden was taking, raising taxes on the top 1% while Reagan/Bush 41/43 have done the opposite. In simple terms, Reagan/Bushes robbed the poor to give to the rich and Clinton did the opposite. And like you say, whether rich or poor people are good or bad is irrelevant.
But none of your answer actually answers my question.
Here it is again :
Does it bother you that a trillion dollar a year revenue shortfall caused by tax cuts for the top 1% is going to be be met by raising taxes yet again on low/middle income earners?
3. Bush is not preventing democracy he is providing time for the Shi'ia and Sunni's to work out their differences and need I remind you that America didn't just take off running wild with democracy after The Revolution we actually had a failed government before the one that is in effect now came into existance....it was called the Articles of Confederation. Soldiers soldier....it's their job it's what they signed up for and it's what they are paid to do....I hate it when they are used as pawns in these politics and yeah I care very deeply about our soldiers no one just sends them out to be killed needlessly without remorse not even George Bush who isn't as heartless as everyone thinks.
Bush tried to prevent any elections taking place in Iraq till he'd written the constitution and ok'd the election contestants. Elections were only held when an Iranian Ayatollah insisted on them and issued a fatwa demanding them. After trying to ignore it, Bush eventually bent to the Ayatollah's will and agreed to elections, but had to go begging to the UN to set them and the new Iraq Constitution up because nobody in Iraq trusted him anymore. Now the country is run by people the Bush administration was calling terrorist groups in 2003.
Elsewhere Bush has tried to destroy the democratically elected government of Palestine and we prop up dictators and tyrannies all over the Middle East including four countries which border Iraq, so how is he not preventing democracy there?
4. You're retreating because you have been out dueled in this debate but yes I will digress and say that ILLEGAL immigration is one of many issues that needs tending to.
No attempt to answer my question again.
Define "out-dueled."
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Re: This is the future of the US........
Let's try this again
1. Tax cuts for the wealthy are not designed to burden the middle class or lower middle class. Cutting taxes for them is to increase the ability to provide jobs to the middle class and lower classes. Cutting taxes for everyone is to increase spending by the citizens not by the government and yes the spending that Bush has done is more than any other conservative in the history of the United States.
Usually when you cut taxes you cut government spending, that is a key mistake of the Bush administration. But having a deficit is nothing new to America and yes we should pay it off but we're talking AT LEAST 50 years of strict paying off of the debt and virtually cutting off all government spending elsewhere and that means everything Armed Forces, Congressmen etc. wouldn't get pay checks.
2. Deficits don't bother me as I have lived with a United States deficit my entire life so adding more to it doesn't matter to me the deficit has gone up like every year I have been alive.
3. Yes we've propped up many governments we put Saddam in power, we supported Batista in Cuba, Jang Hi Shek(sp?) in China, and some bad people in Chile and Vietnam. Yes we have had some mistakes but W didn't make them all. And the lives of soldiers always matter, I don't know why you would ask that, it's an incindiary comment that takes a stab at anyone who thinks the US owes it to Iraq to fix what we've broken.
Maybe we should just do nothing in the Middle East, I am sure Israel would enjoy that as they don't have many allies there.
The situation in Iraq is not written in stone right now, history will provide answers as to how poorly we have done there or and this may shock you....how we changed things for the better there, and I digress that is a very slim possibility but it's still a possibility.
4. Trillions in debt vs illegal immigrants taking jobs.....well it's sort of pointless to argue, the illegal immigrants are more of an everyday occurance, you see what happens personally people lose jobs etc....and like I said with the deficit we have had it forever and I'll live with it the rest of my life I know that. So basically something can be done about immigration vs nothing can really be done about the deficit.
Are we done yet? I mean I have explained and explained and explained and sure there are things we can disagree on those are called opinions and you need to stop trying to change mine.
If you dislike Bush so much why would you want to come back to America? What if another conservative gets elected?
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Re: This is the future of the US........
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
Let's try this again
1. Tax cuts for the wealthy are not designed to burden the middle class or lower middle class. Cutting taxes for them is to increase the ability to provide jobs to the middle class and lower classes. Cutting taxes for everyone is to increase spending by the citizens not by the government and yes the spending that Bush has done is more than any other conservative in the history of the United States.
Usually when you cut taxes you cut government spending, that is a key mistake of the Bush administration. But having a deficit is nothing new to America and yes we should pay it off but we're talking AT LEAST 50 years of strict paying off of the debt and virtually cutting off all government spending elsewhere and that means everything Armed Forces, Congressmen etc. wouldn't get pay checks.
If cutting taxes for the wealthy is so that they can provide jobs, how come business investment collapsed to the lowest level since the civil war after the Reagan tax cuts and has collapsed again since the Bush tax cuts?
How come when Clinton increased taxes for the top-earning 1%, investment increased to record levels and job creation did the same, especially compared to Reagan/Bush?
2. Deficits don't bother me as I have lived with a United States deficit my entire life so adding more to it doesn't matter to me the deficit has gone up like every year I have been alive.
If deficits don't bother you, why are you complaining about an irrelevant couple of billion a year for illegal immigrants? You either care about your taxes or you don't. You can't claim both things at once.
You're aware that Bill Clinton turned a record deficit into a record budget surplus in eight years, right? That money was actually paid off the national debt for the first time in generations in 1999, right? So what are you talking about here?
Surely as somebody so worried about extra taxes, a new ongoing trillion dollar a year revenue shortfall created by Bush 43 must be worrying, no? It's going to mean huge increases in your taxes after all, just a few short years after Clinton put the budget into surplus.
3. Yes we've propped up many governments we put Saddam in power, we supported Batista in Cuba, Jang Hi Shek(sp?) in China, and some bad people in Chile and Vietnam. Yes we have had some mistakes but W didn't make them all. And the lives of soldiers always matter, I don't know why you would ask that, it's an incindiary comment that takes a stab at anyone who thinks the US owes it to Iraq to fix what we've broken.
Maybe we should just do nothing in the Middle East, I am sure Israel would enjoy that as they don't have many allies there.
The situation in Iraq is not written in stone right now, history will provide answers as to how poorly we have done there or and this may shock you....how we changed things for the better there, and I digress that is a very slim possibility but it's still a possibility.
There's no possibility at all. Bush has wasted thousands of lives and trillions of dollars handing the world's second-largest oil reserve to the Iranians, something they've been trying to do for centuries. Bush achieved it in a couple of years, a "dream come true" according to the Ayatollahs. Surely as a taxpayer such a disastrous use of trillions of your dollars upsets you?
Doesn't it bother you that Bush tells lies about bringing democracy to the Middle East while continuing to prop up dictatorships all over the region?
4. Trillions in debt vs illegal immigrants taking jobs.....well it's sort of pointless to argue, the illegal immigrants are more of an everyday occurance, you see what happens personally people lose jobs etc....and like I said with the deficit we have had it forever and I'll live with it the rest of my life I know that. So basically something can be done about immigration vs nothing can really be done about the deficit.
Are we done yet? I mean I have explained and explained and explained and sure there are things we can disagree on those are called opinions and you need to stop trying to change mine.
If you dislike Bush so much why would you want to come back to America? What if another conservative gets elected?
Again there wasn't a deficit seven years ago. So clearly something can be done about the deficit. Of the extra trillions that Bush has added to the national debt since 2000, don't you think an alleged $10 billion a year cost of illegal immigration is irrelevant?
If my work situation dictates that I have to go back to America then back I'll go. I don't like the politicians in either country. I'm hoping a conservative gets elected in America in 2008 or the forthcoming economic/foreign policy trainwreck will be blamed on the 2008 Democratic winner, allowing right wing nutjobs like the Heritage Foundation the opportunity to fool millions of unknowledgeable Americans that the future disasters are all the Democrats' fault and things would be so much better under a Republican president. I want to see everything collapse with no Democratic input.
The things we're disagreeing on are mainly facts involving numbers. Facts don't seem to have any relevance to you, you believe all the stuff you've been bsed with over the years instead. Try actually answering some of the questions I asked you in this post.
http://www.uuforum.org/deficit.htm
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Re: This is the future of the US........
[img width=700 height=635]http://www.uuforum.org/Images/deficit.gif[/img]
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Re: This is the future of the US........
1. When Clinton was in office he had a certain event (the .com/computer boom) that triggered an economic surge and it wasn't due to his tax policies. Also economics take time to affect the job market.
2. How many motherfucking times must I explain this?!?!? Read this real fucking close YOU CANNOT CUT TAXES AND INCREASE SPENDING, IT DOESN'T WORK.
3. What are the winning lottery numbers for this month since you seem to be able to read the future.....you cannot say that what has happened in Iraq is good or bad until enough time has passed to really judge anything....and I guess the Shi'ia are pretty fucking happy there is no Saddam anymore as they were oppressed by him AND the Kurds must be happy as the man who gassed them has been brought to justice.
Sure Iraq is a bad situation but I suppose just leaving them in chaos is a great idea that won't create more resentment at all.....what's your fucking plan genius? I say rebuild Iraq because we are the reason it's broken to begin with.
4. If you're just talking about staying in the black for a year at a time that's all fine and dandy, I am looking at the big picture....you do realize the US has a National Debt right???
http://zfacts.com/p/461.html
You just watch that for a while and tell me that any deficit numbers you quote me actually mean anything at all
The Heritage Foundation aren't "nut jobs"....I don't think you understand, they are not inherently evil.....I am glad you can keep such an open mind about all this.
So you 100% believe I am just a right wing maniac and I have a black heart? Well I am happy your mind is made up about that....maybe you can post some sense into me.....can we live in a comune and can I have my money taken by the government and given to drug addicts and keep the people YOU and your idealic politicians want to help in abject poverty?
Keep on with your posting, I appreciate being told how my country should be run by someone who doesn't even live here
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Re: This is the future of the US........
....you confuse me for someone who is infatuated with George W. Bush....I most certainly am not. His mistakes are huge and will be long felt.
I am a conservative, George W. Bush is not....if he was his spending would be....well, CONSERVATIVE
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Re: This is the future of the US........
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
1. When Clinton was in office he had a certain event (the .com/computer boom) that triggered an economic surge and it wasn't due to his tax policies. Also economics take time to affect the job market.
Clinton's "boom" was related to financial markets only. His economic growth/job creation was directly related to his economic policy -- once business saw a government serious about balancing the books, they responded with record levels of investment and job creation. Bush on the other hand has created the biggest bubble in history via 1% interest rates to power economic growth over the past couple of years and still failed miserably while running up record deficits.
2. How many motherfucking times must I explain this?!?!? Read this real fucking close
YOU CANNOT CUT TAXES AND INCREASE SPENDING, IT DOESN'T WORK.
Why are you talking about spending except to continue to dodge the question? I'm not talking about spending at all. I'm talking about the effect that tax cuts have had on revenues. Nothing to do with spending at all. Now tell me what part of this don't you understand? Then answer the question.
3. What are the winning lottery numbers for this month since you seem to be able to read the future.....you cannot say that what has happened in Iraq is good or bad until enough time has passed to really judge anything....and I guess the Shi'ia are pretty fucking happy there is no Saddam anymore as they were oppressed by him AND the Kurds must be happy as the man who gassed them has been brought to justice.
Sure Iraq is a bad situation but I suppose just leaving them in chaos is a great idea that won't create more resentment at all.....what's your fucking plan genius? I say rebuild Iraq because we are the reason it's broken to begin with.
We can already see the future in Iraq -- the government we've put in power are a bunch of Iranian-backed terrorist groups and we're stuck with them. The best-case scenario is that we can get the troops out without a regional war breaking out, but we'll still leave Iraq controlled by Iran and there's nothing we can do about it.
4. If you're just talking about staying in the black for a year at a time that's all fine and dandy, I am looking at the big picture....you do realize the US has a National Debt right???
http://zfacts.com/p/461.html
You just watch that for a while and tell me that any deficit numbers you quote me actually mean anything at all
The Heritage Foundation aren't "nut jobs"....I don't think you understand, they are not inherently evil.....I am glad you can keep such an open mind about all this.
And the national debt year-on-year growth came to a standstill under Clinton and actually dropped for a couple of years till Bush 43 took over after exploding under Reagan/Bush 41, but then exploded again under Bush 43. See the graph below.
Don't you feel any resentment for the people robbing you to give your money to the top-earning 1%? I thought you were mainly bothered about tax increases?
http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/inflation.gif
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Re: This is the future of the US........
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
1. When Clinton was in office he had a certain event (the .com/computer boom) that triggered an economic surge and it wasn't due to his tax policies. Also economics take time to affect the job market.
2. How many motherfucking times must I explain this?!?!? Read this real F****** close
YOU CANNOT CUT TAXES AND INCREASE SPENDING, IT DOESN'T WORK.
3. What are the winning lottery numbers for this month since you seem to be able to read the future.....you cannot say that what has happened in Iraq is good or bad until enough time has passed to really judge anything....and I guess the Shi'ia are pretty F****** happy there is no Saddam anymore as they were oppressed by him AND the Kurds must be happy as the man who gassed them has been brought to justice.
Sure Iraq is a bad situation but I suppose just leaving them in chaos is a great idea that won't create more resentment at all.....what's your F****** plan genius? I say rebuild Iraq because we are the reason it's broken to begin with.
4. If you're just talking about staying in the black for a year at a time that's all fine and dandy, I am looking at the big picture....you do realize the US has a National Debt right???
http://zfacts.com/p/461.html
You just watch that for a while and tell me that any deficit numbers you quote me actually mean anything at all
The Heritage Foundation aren't "nut jobs"....I don't think you understand, they are not inherently evil.....I am glad you can keep such an open mind about all this.
So you 100% believe I am just a right wing maniac and I have a black heart? Well I am happy your mind is made up about that....maybe you can post some sense into me.....can we live in a comune and can I have my money taken by the government and given to drug addicts and keep the people YOU and your idealic politicians want to help in abject poverty?
Keep on with your posting, I appreciate being told how my country should be run by someone who doesn't even live here
It's easy to say the things that he has because his family didn't make this country what it is and he don't have to raise a family over here so he don't see a problem with us just giving everything we have worked for away.
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Re: This is the future of the US........
1. It's easy to do well when you have a major revolution like the .com's gave Clinton....there was nothing like that before or after Clinton....actually AFTER Clinton the market was harder to manage because the .com bubble burst and suddenly companies like Pets.com had to liquidate their companies....but I suppose the billions lost there don't matter in the grand scheme of things as it goes against YOUR reality and YOUR reality is what truly matters.
2. WHAT QUESTION DO YOU WANT ME TO ANSWER?!?! I said that you cannot possibly have tax cuts AND increased spending and expect to have trickle down economics work....is that not an answer to your question....I don't think you even remember what you fucking asked me.....and if you don't accept my response this time you are retarded.
3. If you can see the future then you're a better man than me because I believe the future is what we make it and not what is handed out to us....yes Bush put us in a hell of a hole in Iraq but it's not the end of the world and it's not going to be the end of Iraq or the Middle East or the issues there....need I remind you it was YOUR country who fucked up Iraq to begin with (modern day of course...it's been pretty violent since the dawn of man but I suppose you hold that against America as well.....I wouldn't be surprised if you did).
As for modern day Iraq, it was BRITAIN AND NOT AMERICA who fucked all that up...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British...of_Mesopotamia
4. MY taxes haven't increased and as I have said numerous times before GEORGE W. BUSH HAS AN IDIOTIC ECONOMIC POLICY BECAUSE HE SPENDS LIKE A LIBERAL YET TAXES LIKE A CONSERVATIVE
Are we done yet? Or are you pissed off because now I might have given your country a little blame in Iraq??? I suppose you are but it's true oh yes it is...you tried to make Iraq the new India and it worked just about as well.....so thanks for creating a big pile of shit for AMERICA to fix.....you Brits can just sit back on your asses and wait for us to fix everything AGAIN.....for at least the third time
have a nice day :fyou:
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Re: This is the future of the US........
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
1. It's easy to do well when you have a major revolution like the .com's gave Clinton....there was nothing like that before or after Clinton....actually AFTER Clinton the market was harder to manage because the .com bubble burst and suddenly companies like Pets.com had to liquidate their companies....but I suppose the billions lost there don't matter in the grand scheme of things as it goes against YOUR reality and YOUR reality is what truly matters.
The credit bubble caused by Bush's 1% interest rates dwarfs the losses in the Clinton bubble. The losses under Bush stretch throughout America as it involves homes and mortgages and personal credit plus the inflationary costs of the weak dollar caused by printing cheap money. The .com bubble losses were limited mainly to investors who could afford to lose it. The current credit bubble is thirty odd times bigger than the .com losses at least.
Define "harder to manage."
2. WHAT QUESTION DO YOU WANT ME TO ANSWER?!?! I said that you cannot possibly have tax cuts AND increased spending and expect to have trickle down economics work....is that not an answer to your question....I don't think you even remember what you fucking asked me.....and if you don't accept my response this time you are retarded.
Here's the question again :
2. Does it bother you that a trillion dollar a year revenue shortfall caused by tax cuts for the top 1% is going to be be met by raising taxes yet again on low/middle income earners?
This question has nothing to do with whether you can have tax cuts and increased spending and everything to do with how do you personally feel that Bush is currently dumping what looks like a future 25% tax increase disproportionately on middle/low income Americans.
3. If you can see the future then you're a better man than me because I believe the future is what we make it and not what is handed out to us....yes Bush put us in a hell of a hole in Iraq but it's not the end of the world and it's not going to be the end of Iraq or the Middle East or the issues there....need I remind you it was YOUR country who fucked up Iraq to begin with (modern day of course...it's been pretty violent since the dawn of man but I suppose you hold that against America as well.....I wouldn't be surprised if you did).
As for modern day Iraq, it was BRITAIN AND NOT AMERICA who fucked all that up...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British...of_Mesopotamia
Britain actually made a brilliant job of Iraq. They managed to stitch together a bunch of warring regions of the Ottoman empire and keep control of a chunk of the greatest strategic prize in history throughout most of the twentieth century and keep the region stable. It kept the Sunni/Shia balance in the Arab world carefully poised so that nobody got too powerful. Then dumbass George went in and screwed it all up in five minutes bringing unending unpleasant consequences for us in the region. Although our leader was dumb enough to trust Bush so we're not entirely blameless.
4. MY taxes haven't increased and as I have said numerous times before
GEORGE W. BUSH HAS AN IDIOTIC ECONOMIC POLICY BECAUSE HE SPENDS LIKE A LIBERAL YET TAXES LIKE A CONSERVATIVE
Are we done yet? Or are you pissed off because now I might have given your country a little blame in Iraq??? I suppose you are but it's true oh yes it is...you tried to make Iraq the new India and it worked just about as well.....so thanks for creating a big pile of shit for AMERICA to fix.....you Brits can just sit back on your asses and wait for us to fix everything
AGAIN.....for at least the third time
have a nice day :fyou:
Your taxes have increased. You weren't given a tax cut, you were given a tax shift -- your taxable liability has been moved from the present to the future as they were made with borrowed money. So you're going to have to pay them back with interest, mainly to the Chinese at whatever rate of interest they're demanding to hold weak dollar assets in a few years.
Define "fix."
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Re: This is the future of the US........
Quote:
Originally Posted by USA LOVES THE KLITSCHKOS
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
1. When Clinton was in office he had a certain event (the .com/computer boom) that triggered an economic surge and it wasn't due to his tax policies. Also economics take time to affect the job market.
2. How many motherfucking times must I explain this?!?!? Read this real F****** close
YOU CANNOT CUT TAXES AND INCREASE SPENDING, IT DOESN'T WORK.
3. What are the winning lottery numbers for this month since you seem to be able to read the future.....you cannot say that what has happened in Iraq is good or bad until enough time has passed to really judge anything....and I guess the Shi'ia are pretty F****** happy there is no Saddam anymore as they were oppressed by him AND the Kurds must be happy as the man who gassed them has been brought to justice.
Sure Iraq is a bad situation but I suppose just leaving them in chaos is a great idea that won't create more resentment at all.....what's your F****** plan genius? I say rebuild Iraq because we are the reason it's broken to begin with.
4. If you're just talking about staying in the black for a year at a time that's all fine and dandy, I am looking at the big picture....you do realize the US has a National Debt right???
http://zfacts.com/p/461.html
You just watch that for a while and tell me that any deficit numbers you quote me actually mean anything at all
The Heritage Foundation aren't "nut jobs"....I don't think you understand, they are not inherently evil.....I am glad you can keep such an open mind about all this.
So you 100% believe I am just a right wing maniac and I have a black heart? Well I am happy your mind is made up about that....maybe you can post some sense into me.....can we live in a comune and can I have my money taken by the government and given to drug addicts and keep the people YOU and your idealic politicians want to help in abject poverty?
Keep on with your posting, I appreciate being told how my country should be run by someone who doesn't even live here
It's easy to say the things that he has because his family didn't make this country what it is and he don't have to raise a family over here so he don't see a problem with us just giving everything we have worked for away.
Define "us just giving everything we have worked for away."
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Re: This is the future of the US........
OK we could just agree to disagree but apparently you won't leave well enough alone.
If spending is high then taxes must be high....that's liberal economic policy
If spending is low then taxes should be low....that's conservative economic policy
W has taken the low taxes and the high spending and merged them into a failed policy for the American people. The economy has done fine aside from the housing market which was due to greedy banks giving loans out to people that could never pay them back.
I agree with Ross Perot about the National Debt, it should be paid back because countries like China can hold it over our heads and affect our policies and that's not a good position to be in.
I don't mind paying taxes when it goes to help the US, I don't mind paying for our soldiers, I don't mind paying for infastructure, I don't mind paying for schools.....but I do mind flipping the bill for people who are not even supposed to be here or are here illegally.
Let me ask you this, if someone is breaking the law by being in the US illegally why wouldn't they break the law in other areas too?
FOR EXAMPLE: drugs, driving without a license, driving without insurance, theft, gang violence, and voting while illegally in the US which if they get a driver's license they can do and it's not difficult to get them in some states including my home state of North Carolina and it's more than likely due to the democrats as they have been in power in this state for as long as I can remember
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Re: This is the future of the US........
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
OK we could just agree to disagree but apparently you won't leave well enough alone.
If spending is high then taxes must be high....that's liberal economic policy
If spending is low then taxes should be low....that's conservative economic policy
W has taken the low taxes and the high spending and merged them into a failed policy for the American people. The economy has done fine aside from the housing market which was due to greedy banks giving loans out to people that could never pay them back.
I agree with Ross Perot about the National Debt, it should be paid back because countries like China can hold it over our heads and affect our policies and that's not a good position to be in.
I don't mind paying taxes when it goes to help the US, I don't mind paying for our soldiers, I don't mind paying for infastructure, I don't mind paying for schools.....but I do mind flipping the bill for people who are not even supposed to be here or are here illegally.
Let me ask you this, if someone is breaking the law by being in the US illegally why wouldn't they break the law in other areas too?
FOR EXAMPLE: drugs, driving without a license, driving without insurance, theft, gang violence, and voting while illegally in the US which if they get a driver's license they can do and it's not difficult to get them in some states including my home state of North Carolina and it's more than likely due to the democrats as they have been in power in this state for as long as I can remember
When you want to actually get round to answering my questions instead of irrelevant ranting, get back to me.
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Re: This is the future of the US........
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
Quote:
Originally Posted by USA LOVES THE KLITSCHKOS
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
1. When Clinton was in office he had a certain event (the .com/computer boom) that triggered an economic surge and it wasn't due to his tax policies. Also economics take time to affect the job market.
2. How many motherfucking times must I explain this?!?!? Read this real F****** close
YOU CANNOT CUT TAXES AND INCREASE SPENDING, IT DOESN'T WORK.
3. What are the winning lottery numbers for this month since you seem to be able to read the future.....you cannot say that what has happened in Iraq is good or bad until enough time has passed to really judge anything....and I guess the Shi'ia are pretty F****** happy there is no Saddam anymore as they were oppressed by him AND the Kurds must be happy as the man who gassed them has been brought to justice.
Sure Iraq is a bad situation but I suppose just leaving them in chaos is a great idea that won't create more resentment at all.....what's your F****** plan genius? I say rebuild Iraq because we are the reason it's broken to begin with.
4. If you're just talking about staying in the black for a year at a time that's all fine and dandy, I am looking at the big picture....you do realize the US has a National Debt right???
http://zfacts.com/p/461.html
You just watch that for a while and tell me that any deficit numbers you quote me actually mean anything at all
The Heritage Foundation aren't "nut jobs"....I don't think you understand, they are not inherently evil.....I am glad you can keep such an open mind about all this.
So you 100% believe I am just a right wing maniac and I have a black heart? Well I am happy your mind is made up about that....maybe you can post some sense into me.....can we live in a comune and can I have my money taken by the government and given to drug addicts and keep the people YOU and your idealic politicians want to help in abject poverty?
Keep on with your posting, I appreciate being told how my country should be run by someone who doesn't even live here
It's easy to say the things that he has because his family didn't make this country what it is and he don't have to raise a family over here so he don't see a problem with us just giving everything we have worked for away.
Define "us just giving everything we have worked for away."
You know exactly what I'm talking about, the infrastructure that was built before all the illegals broke into this country to use and abuse one example you have sidestepped is this article on the closing of hospitals that LEGION posted http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/...6/170334.shtml
now defend the illegals on that, they eat on the fabric of this country like parasites.
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Re: This is the future of the US........
Quote:
Originally Posted by USA LOVES THE KLITSCHKOS
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
Quote:
Originally Posted by USA LOVES THE KLITSCHKOS
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
1. When Clinton was in office he had a certain event (the .com/computer boom) that triggered an economic surge and it wasn't due to his tax policies. Also economics take time to affect the job market.
2. How many motherfucking times must I explain this?!?!? Read this real F****** close
YOU CANNOT CUT TAXES AND INCREASE SPENDING, IT DOESN'T WORK.
3. What are the winning lottery numbers for this month since you seem to be able to read the future.....you cannot say that what has happened in Iraq is good or bad until enough time has passed to really judge anything....and I guess the Shi'ia are pretty F****** happy there is no Saddam anymore as they were oppressed by him AND the Kurds must be happy as the man who gassed them has been brought to justice.
Sure Iraq is a bad situation but I suppose just leaving them in chaos is a great idea that won't create more resentment at all.....what's your F****** plan genius? I say rebuild Iraq because we are the reason it's broken to begin with.
4. If you're just talking about staying in the black for a year at a time that's all fine and dandy, I am looking at the big picture....you do realize the US has a National Debt right???
http://zfacts.com/p/461.html
You just watch that for a while and tell me that any deficit numbers you quote me actually mean anything at all
The Heritage Foundation aren't "nut jobs"....I don't think you understand, they are not inherently evil.....I am glad you can keep such an open mind about all this.
So you 100% believe I am just a right wing maniac and I have a black heart? Well I am happy your mind is made up about that....maybe you can post some sense into me.....can we live in a comune and can I have my money taken by the government and given to drug addicts and keep the people YOU and your idealic politicians want to help in abject poverty?
Keep on with your posting, I appreciate being told how my country should be run by someone who doesn't even live here
It's easy to say the things that he has because his family didn't make this country what it is and he don't have to raise a family over here so he don't see a problem with us just giving everything we have worked for away.
Define "us just giving everything we have worked for away."
You know exactly what I'm talking about, the infrastructure that was built before all the illegals broke into this country to use and abuse one example you have sidestepped is this article on the closing of hospitals that LEGION posted
http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/...6/170334.shtml
now defend the illegals that eat on the fabric of this country like parasites.
The infrastructure was built by generations of immigrants and is currently being maintained and expanded by generations more.
The illegals are only illegal because for generations the GOP has been able to win millions of votes by using immigration as a political football. Now that they need the Hispanic vote to remain competitive in presidential elections, you're going to see a legal mass immigration program sooner rather than later and all the current illegals will become legal. Then you'll have nothing to cry about. Again, if the current situation is affecting you so badly go back to school or work harder so that you join the section of society that sees immigration as a benefit and not a threat. Simply whining about something which has gone on for generations, is responsible for the rapid economic growth in America and will continue for as long as there's a US economy is, frankly, anti-American.
I have to say that I'm shocked and saddened at the level of anti-Americanism in this thread.
Instead of articles from right-wing nutjob outlets like Newsmax and World Nut Daily, here are some actual facts about immigration, backed up with US government statistics :
Here are five myths to start with :
1. The US public health insurance programs are over burdened with documented and undocumented immigrants.
2. Immigrants consume large quantities of health care resources.
3. Immigrants come to the US to gain access to health care services.
4. Restricting immigrants access to the health care system will not affect American citizens.
5. Undocumented immigrants are free riders in the American health care system.
Here's some of the truth behind those myths :
"In Texas, for example, nearly seven percent of the state’s population was comprised of undocumented immigrants in 2005. The state’s health care costs for undocumented immigrants that same year were a mere $58 million. Yet state revenues collected from undocumented immigrants exceeded what the state spent on social services provided to these immigrants such as health care and education by $424.7 million.
"Immigrant contributions to social services are similar across the country. The National Research Council concluded that immigrants will pay on average $80,000 per capita more in taxes than they will use in government services over their lifetimes.
"Additionally, in March 2005, more than seven million undocumented immigrants were in the workforce yet received few public services for their labor and tax contributions. The Social Security Administration, for example, reaps an enormous benefit from the taxes paid by undocumented immigrants. It estimates that workers without valid social security numbers contribute $7 billion in Social Security tax revenues and roughly $1.5 billion in Medicare taxes annually, yet elderly immigrants rarely qualify for Medicare or long-term care services provided through Medicaid.
"In 2001, the Social Security Administration concluded that undocumented immigrants "account for a major portion of the billions of dollars paid into social security that don’t match SSA records," which payees, many of whom are undocumented immigrants, can never draw upon. As of July 2003, these payments totaled $421 billion."
Looks like instead of being a bunch of parasites all those illegals are propping the system up, doesn't it?
Lots more actual facts here :
http://www.americanprogress.org/issu...lth_report.pdf
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Re: This is the future of the US........
....you do realize that the "Center for American Progress" is run by former Bill Clinton chief of staff John Podesta and it was founded as "an alternative to conservative think tanks"
So those numbers mean 0 to me....it's just some wacko leftist pinko commie bastards trying to pull the wool over your eyes.
You still ASSUME that all illegal immigrants pay taxes and that is just insane! They bring nothing positive to this nation other than doing work for less money than they should and creating a larger poorer population in this country will not help anyone out...prove me wrong on that!
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Re: This is the future of the US........
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
....you do realize that the "Center for American Progress" is run by former Bill Clinton chief of staff John Podesta and it was founded as "an alternative to conservative think tanks"
So those numbers mean 0 to me....it's just some wacko leftist pinko commie bastards trying to pull the wool over your eyes.
You still ASSUME that all illegal immigrants pay taxes and that is just insane! They bring nothing positive to this nation other than doing work for less money than they should and creating a larger poorer population in this country will not help anyone out...prove me wrong on that!
We should load them on boats and send them to KL's home then he will see what we're talking about.
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Re: This is the future of the US........
The illegals are not illegal because of the GOP you're a fucking idiot!
Ronald Reagan gave amnesty to millions of Cubans in 1980's....didn't work out very well for us as we got the dregs of Cuban society.
Also all immigrants in order to become naturalized have to take tests and really learn about American culture...this is part of how people assimilated in America over many years.
I am not anti-immigration, I am anti-ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION there is a difference....I guess in your mind the people who become naturalized are saps....I think those naturalized citizens are some of the greatest citizens in America!
Anti-Americanism my ass, I am for accepting the weak and the poor as long as they intend to become full American citizens......right now America is basically being INVADED by Mexicans.
You would just think that someone who was born and raised in America and who doesn't vote straight party (that's right, as much as I dislike liberal views I do vote for them sometimes) and someone who is educated such as myself would know a little about America but apparently I have missed the boat.....please teach me with your enlightened British education.....please tell me how America should be run......I do believe the last time the British tried to run America it didn't work so well
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Re: This is the future of the US........
BORDERS, LANGUAGE, CULTURE....is that too much to ask?
You can spout on about W or "undocumented immigrants" or whatever you want to but all I ask is that America keeps it's borders, language, and culture....that is it.
I do not believe in political correctness either...I know there are a few of your countrymen that don't appreciate it either
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Re: This is the future of the US........
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
Anti-Americanism my a**, I am for accepting the weak and the poor as long as they intend to become full American citizens......right now America is basically being INVADED by Mexicans.
Give them back California! ;D you might as well throw in Nevada.
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Re: This is the future of the US........
Quote:
Originally Posted by Missy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
Anti-Americanism my a**, I am for accepting the weak and the poor as long as they intend to become full American citizens......right now America is basically being INVADED by Mexicans.
Give them back California! ;D you might as well throw in Nevada.
...I'm surprised you aren't going to quote the Communist Manifesto for us.
We already whipped their asses for all that land, I'll be damned if we're going to give it back.....but if any Hollywood crazies want to move to Mexico feel free, I won't cry about it.
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Re: This is the future of the US........
Quote:
Originally Posted by Missy
KL for president.
p.s it's crap. Outsourcing doesn't save any money for the consumer, what it does is increase profits for the companies. Several big companies have relocated where it's cheaper and there are lax labour laws, has the cost of their product come down? No.
Iraq attacked you?  ::** however you are right on one point. They do care about money more than they care about you.
Yes they did, several times at that in the 90's. In the conspirist or "the US is just a war mongering bully" world, everything that happened in the 90's is one isolated incident after another with seemingly no connection or link to one another.
Unless of course something like this happened: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oplan_Bojinka_plot
And in typical US government fashion, this was covered up: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TWA_Flight_800 (Amazingly enough this happened on the anniversary of saddam's coup taking over iraq which was accompanied by saddam's most intense anti-US speech on the same day)
Scroll down to witnesses and you'll notice a very insteresting group of words : "No verbatim records of the witness interviews were produced; instead the agents who conducted the interviews wrote summaries of the interviews which they then submitted.[28] Witnesses were not asked to review or correct the documents" Sounds like they could've turned in anything they wanted. Possible reasons for inflight break-up is another good read.
This is the link to the other guy involved in oklahoma city: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_Nichols
Key phrase here at the bottom of federal charges: Nichols made several trips to the Philippines in the months before the bombing. At this point i refer you to the fact that yousaf and khalid sheik muhammad(huge ties to al qaeda in iraq) where in the phillipines at roughly the same time planning oplan bojinka. THe same day that flight 800 happened khalid was heard speaking his native buluchi language which is from an area in kuwait while every other recorded phone call he made while in prison was done so with him speaking arabic.
Then again all this never happened and i'm just crazy huh?
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Re: This is the future of the US........
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
Quote:
Originally Posted by Missy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
Anti-Americanism my a**, I am for accepting the weak and the poor as long as they intend to become full American citizens......right now America is basically being INVADED by Mexicans.
Give them back California! ;D you might as well throw in Nevada.
...I'm surprised you aren't going to quote the
Communist Manifesto for us.
We already whipped their asses for all that land, I'll be damned if we're going to give it back.....but if any Hollywood crazies want to move to Mexico feel free, I won't cry about it.
Ever bothered to read it or does the very idea of politcal discourse make you ill?
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Re: This is the future of the US........
Quote:
Originally Posted by Punisher136
Quote:
Originally Posted by Missy
KL for president.
p.s it's crap. Outsourcing doesn't save any money for the consumer, what it does is increase profits for the companies. Several big companies have relocated where it's cheaper and there are lax labour laws, has the cost of their product come down? No.
Iraq attacked you? ::** however you are right on one point. They do care about money more than they care about you.
Yes they did, several times at that in the 90's. In the conspirist or "the US is just a war mongering bully" world, everything that happened in the 90's is one isolated incident after another with seemingly no connection or link to one another.
Unless of course something like this happened:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oplan_Bojinka_plot
::**
what episode of 24 was this?
I did say IRAQ and not abbu dabba screaming arab.
I see Sudan/Phillipines in the web based truth spew that is wikipedia but no Iraq. ???
Graphs and things in this topic are well wicked. You folks nearly lost the viewers but that brought the thread right back. 8)
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Re: This is the future of the US........
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
BORDERS, LANGUAGE, CULTURE....is that too much to ask?
You can spout on about W or "undocumented immigrants" or whatever you want to but all I ask is that America keeps it's borders, language, and culture....that is it.
I do not believe in political correctness either...I know there are a few of your countrymen that don't appreciate it either
That somebody worked in the Clinton administration in no way alters all those pesky facts contained in that report. For instance, the fact that 'the government's Social Security Administration concluded that undocumented immigrants "account for a major portion of the billions of dollars paid into social security that don’t match SSA records," which payees, many of whom are undocumented immigrants, can never draw upon. As of July 2003, these payments totaled $421 billion' is a stubbornly real fact direct from the SS actuaries that is unspinnable.
You've already clearly demonstrated your aversion to facts and evidence so I'm sure these other facts won't alter that, you'll still go on believing what you want to. So in your mind immigrants cost America money in the same way that there were WMD in Iraq.
But this is all just a pathetic attempt to dodge answering the questions you've been dodging for days now. When presented with facts and asked to reply to those facts you run away like a Frenchman. Much easier just to rant away, isn't it, Frenchie?
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Re: This is the future of the US........
Quote:
Originally Posted by Punisher136
Quote:
Originally Posted by Missy
KL for president.
p.s it's crap. Outsourcing doesn't save any money for the consumer, what it does is increase profits for the companies. Several big companies have relocated where it's cheaper and there are lax labour laws, has the cost of their product come down? No.
Iraq attacked you? ::** however you are right on one point. They do care about money more than they care about you.
Yes they did, several times at that in the 90's. In the conspirist or "the US is just a war mongering bully" world, everything that happened in the 90's is one isolated incident after another with seemingly no connection or link to one another.
Unless of course something like this happened:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oplan_Bojinka_plot
And in typical US government fashion, this was covered up:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TWA_Flight_800 (Amazingly enough this happened on the anniversary of saddam's coup taking over iraq which was accompanied by saddam's most intense anti-US speech on the same day)
Scroll down to witnesses and you'll notice a very insteresting group of words : "No verbatim records of the witness interviews were produced; instead the agents who conducted the interviews wrote summaries of the interviews which they then submitted.[28] Witnesses were not asked to review or correct the documents" Sounds like they could've turned in anything they wanted. Possible reasons for inflight break-up is another good read.
This is the link to the other guy involved in oklahoma city:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_Nichols
Key phrase here at the bottom of federal charges: Nichols made several trips to the Philippines in the months before the bombing. At this point i refer you to the fact that yousaf and khalid sheik muhammad(huge ties to al qaeda in iraq) where in the phillipines at roughly the same time planning oplan bojinka. THe same day that flight 800 happened khalid was heard speaking his native buluchi language which is from an area in kuwait while every other recorded phone call he made while in prison was done so with him speaking arabic.
Then again all this never happened and i'm just crazy huh?
Yet another conservative who runs away when presented with facts. I'm still waiting for a reply from you to this post, Monsieur ;
http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxing_fo...html#msg713128
Once you've replied to it I'll deal with this hilarious post.
When American conservatives come into contact with facts, their first instinct is to run away and pretend they don't exist. You're probably all secretly French. No wonder there's so much anti-Americanism in this thread.
