Re: Quintana v Judah in the works of Pav-JT 2 undercard
I'm going for a Quintana win here. Strong natural WW,as long as he survives Zab's bum rushes,which he should be able to with his footwork,he should win.
Re: Quintana v Judah in the works of Pav-JT 2 undercard
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Originally Posted by El Gamo
I'm going for a Quintana win here. Strong natural WW,as long as he survives Zab's bum rushes,which he should be able to with his footwork,he should win.
LOL, Zab puts a whole new twist on the phrase "bum rush" ;D
Re: Quintana v Judah in the works of Pav-JT 2 undercard
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Originally Posted by LEGION
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Originally Posted by El Gamo
I'm going for a Quintana win here. Strong natural WW,as long as he survives Zab's bum rushes,which he should be able to with his footwork,he should win.
LOL, Zab puts a whole new twist on the phrase "bum rush" ;D
Maybe but many considered Judah Cotto's biggest test to that point...
Re: Quintana v Judah in the works of Pav-JT 2 undercard
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Originally Posted by Galaxy.
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Originally Posted by LEGION
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Originally Posted by El Gamo
I'm going for a Quintana win here. Strong natural WW,as long as he survives Zab's bum rushes,which he should be able to with his footwork,he should win.
LOL, Zab puts a whole new twist on the phrase "bum rush" ;D
Maybe but many considered Judah Cotto's biggest test to that point...
You're right, and I pick on Zab alot just cause' he was one of my favorites and it's disappointing to see what's happening. I don't think he's a bum.....yet :-\
Re: Quintana v Judah in the works of Pav-JT 2 undercard
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Originally Posted by LEGION
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Originally Posted by Galaxy.
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Originally Posted by LEGION
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Originally Posted by El Gamo
I'm going for a Quintana win here. Strong natural WW,as long as he survives Zab's bum rushes,which he should be able to with his footwork,he should win.
LOL, Zab puts a whole new twist on the phrase "bum rush" ;D
Maybe but many considered Judah Cotto's biggest test to that point...
You're right, and I pick on Zab alot just cause' he was one of my favorites and it's disappointing to see what's happening. I don't think he's a bum.....yet :-\
I agree he's still a tough opponent for anyone around the weight!
Re: Quintana v Judah in the works of Pav-JT 2 undercard
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Originally Posted by SweetPea
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Originally Posted by CutMeMick
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Originally Posted by SweetPea
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Originally Posted by CutMeMick
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Originally Posted by SweetPea
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Originally Posted by CutMeMick
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Originally Posted by SweetPea
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Originally Posted by CutMeMick
I mean the guys 2-3 and 1 NC in his last fights hes gone the distance with 2 fighters that any of the other top welters would blast out in a couple of rounds.
The one NC was about 2 seconds away from being a first round KO. His opponent was lucky enough to get caught with an inadvertant elbow and avoid getting knocked out.
The 2 losses were to Mayweather and Cotto, who by my count have a combined career record of 69-0. Losing to Mayweather and Cotto doesn't make you a scrub fighter.
As I said, Zab is what he is. He's not a champion, and never will be. He will never beat someone on the Mayweather/Cotto level. And that fact means he has something in common with 99.9999% of the other welterweights in the world.
I would challenge anyone to name more than 6 or 7 welterweights who would give both Floyd and Cotto tougher fights than the ones Zab gave them.
Regardless of how the NC came it's still a NC.
A loss is a loss.
I agree on the looses to PBF & Cotto but we seem to not be talking about the "other" loss.
I think what made me dislike Zab so much was/is his fans who have just about every excuse you can think of.
SweetPea something tells me he would loose to Williams, Margarito & Cintron and I'd favor Berto over Zab also.
I need to see more of Berto before I put him at or above Zab. I agree with you that Williams, Margarito, Cintron (and Mosley) would beat Zab. But this is my point... 147 is LOADED. Just because you're not a top 5 welter, that doesn't make you a scrub. Even the 10th or 11th best guy at 147 could be Top 2 or 3 in other divisions, 147 is overflowing with talent.
I'm not one of those Zab fans that makes all types of excuses for him. He deserved to lose to Floyd, Cotto, Baldomir, Spinks, Tszyu... all of them. Zab is a tremendously flawed fighter and has brought all of his problems on himself with dumb decisions. But he's not as bad as you make him out to be. I think you're letting your personal dislike of him cloud your judgement a little bit here. Which is rare because you're usually dead-on in terms of evaluating fighters IMO.
Trust me SweetPea I don't hack at his hand speed, power and or athleticisim. I know hes got it somewhere but the fact is it's not good enough.
Everytime he's on camera he has something stupid to say he can never accept defeat it's always something went wrong someones fault. But never his he needs to man up and accept it. Watching Cotto dismantle him was one of the most satisfying things for me. He wanted to play the bad boy role then he needs to take it all the good with the bad.
Mick, I don't disagree with anything you say here. But my point is... what you said here... all it proves is that Zab isn't mature and doesn't like to accept responsibility. It doesn't prove that he's not a Top 7 or 8 welterweight. This is what I mean... you're using things you don't like about his personality to try to prove things about his boxing status.
Come on SweetPea I just told you how is a guy that's 2-3 with 1 NC rated 7 or 8.
Heres how I have the Welter as of today:
Cotto
SSM
Williams
Margarito
Cintron
Clottey
Gomez
Isaac
Berto
Zab
*Please note that since PBFs last fight was at LM that is where he is rated until he fights at Welter.
Alfonso Gomez the 7th best WW in the world? I think you're giving him way too much credit for his one and only notable accomplishment at welter, which is beating a completely shot Gatti, who wasn't even really a 147 pounder.
I think being competitive against Cotto for 11 rounds is a lot more impressive than beating up the corpse of Gatti. Just my opinion of course.
And as I said before, Berto could easily pass Judah soon, but I need to see more of him than just a win over the likes of David Estrada and Cosme Rivera before I rank him above Zab. Berto got knocked down by Rivera, Zab completely destroyed Rivera in 3 rounds.
Well that's where our own judgement comes into play.
1 good win over Gatti is alot better then 2 wins over the 2 guys Zab beat.
For that alone I rank him higher. If and when Zab fights Quintana and if and when he beats him guess what? That'll put Zab back up to #6 just above Gomez. I mean SweetPea I'm not exagerrating here I don't think I'm over the top here my ranking is reasonable at least I think it is.
I mean I'm telling you the way Zab's career has been I just can't rank him obove the other guys. I know he's fought the better competition between he Berto, Gomez and Isaac BUT he's lost those fights. So IMO he needs to drop in the rankings.
Re: Quintana v Judah in the works of Pav-JT 2 undercard
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Originally Posted by wacko3205
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Originally Posted by SweetPea
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Originally Posted by wacko3205
As far as who I think would have been great to have faced Cotto?
Cintron, Williams, Clottey, or even Collazo would have been a world better for me.
Collazo had just fought Mosley 3 months earlier and had broken his hand. He wasn't available. Williams was stuck fighting his #1 mandatory contender. Clottey had just fought Corrales 2 months before, that's too quick a turnaround.
Silly me...I didn't hear you ask me for dates...you asked me who I thought was more worthy of the shot. I need to pay more attention next time when applying rational thought to all matters Judah. ;) ;D
Once again...I said...& I quote myself : "As far as who I think would have been great to have faced Cotto?
Cintron, Williams, Clottey, or even Collazo would have been a world better for me."
Didn't say anything about me checking specifics on dates.
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Originally Posted by SweetPea
Ya, I guess Cintron was available, but let's be honest, Cintron didn't really announce that he was back as a legit contender until a month after the Cotto-Judah fight, when he KO'd Matthysse.
Again...you asked who I would have wanted to see...you asked my opinion...not who was a shoe in for a timing matter.
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Originally Posted by SweetPea
This is what I mean, it's easy to list all these guys who seem more deserving than Zab, but if you really look into it, you'd see that almost all of these names weren't really options, and therefore Zab was deserving of the shot he got.
Again...dates don't matter to me...it's the fighter that I thought was a more worthy opponent.
Zab, for being the total corn filled turd that he is in the ring, will NEVER be deserving of a shot other than one he get's in the mouth.
You can say "dates don't matter to me" all you want, but you also clearly said "why he keeps getting shot after shot is beyond me."
What I was showing you with dates and timelines was the clear answer to why Zab keeps getting shot after shot. It's not Zab's fault that other guys were injured or busy fighting other guys.
Due to a combination of circumstances, Zab was the best guy available in most instances. That's why he's getting shot after shot.
