RICKY HATTON - FANTASY MATCHUPS

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Originally Posted by Mr140

Good point ono some people discredit Hatton beating a old Tszyu but then they never bring up how old Oscar was when he was beat by a sd by PBF.

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Oscar was past his prime when Floyd fought him. No Doubt.

But, on balance, Oscar was younger, bigger, healthier, and just BETTER than Kostya Tszyu.

Kostya Tszyu was a very good fighter, but can you ever envision Cool Vince Phillips giving Oscar a brutal beatdown? The same Vince Phillips that Ike Quartey blew out in a couple of rounds?

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Originally Posted by DIOS DOMINICANO

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Originally Posted by ono

Kostya sure as hell didn't look shot 7 months earlier when he absolutely battered Sharmba Mitchell.

So what he had a bit of a lay off.....so what he was 36. Kostya was talking about how we would have wiped the floor with the 26 year old version of himself.

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Are you referring to the same Sharmba Mitchell who was also dusted off by Mayweather and Paul Williams?

Facts: 36 years old. Injuries. Surgeries. Long Layoffs. Never fought again.
Interpret that how you want to.

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Yes Mitchell lasted twice as long with your boy than he did with a 'severly diminished' Kostya Tszyu

Calzaghe is almost 36.....he's had injuries, he's had surgeries, he's had long lay off's.....interpret that how you want to.

Going by what you have just said.....Tszyu and Mitchell were both shot to pieces when they fought eachother yet they were competing for the IBF light welterweight title?

I'm going to be sad clicking my little head off ;)

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Originally Posted by ono

I'm not trying to take anything away from Mayweather's win over ODLH....i was simply using the same analogy that DIOS had used when belittling Hatton.

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Dude. Stop with the "belittling hatton" silliness. I stated facts. I'm a factual poster.

We are boxing fans. We should be able to OBJECTIVELY talk about fights and fighters. If you can't read about your guy's weaknesses without becoming upset, or getting your feelings hurt, then you are not a fan. You are a groupie.

Delahoya has fought top guys in their prime. So has Mosley. Mayweather has fought top guys in their prime. So has Judah. Cotto fought Judah and malignaggi. They are good, but not quite elite.

Hatton has not fought a prime elite yet. He will on 12/8. Ricky has looked good against the older fighters, and hasn't been so impressive against the younger, fresher guys lately. This is a terrific opportunity to validate his top 10 p4p ranking. Let's not get emotional. The fight is in two weeks. We'll see what happens.

Let's just hope that the questions about BOTH Mayweather and Hatton get answered on 12/8.

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Originally Posted by Mr140

And Oscar was a spring chicken when he fought PBF and he was in his prime and ready to go right.

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Oscar was absolutely past his best days. Nobody has said otherwise.

But the reality is that the May 5th, 2007 Oscar would have beaten anybody on Hatton's resume. A 34 yr old Oscar at 154 was still a formidable guy. He's still one of the 2 or 3 best 154ers. No?

What made Mayweather's win impressive was the size differential. He gave up alot of height/weight to a very good fighter.

How is Mosley, Trinadad, and Vargas were not elite guys and Bernard to.

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Originally Posted by ono

Calzaghe is almost 36.....he's had injuries, he's had surgeries, he's had long lay off's.....interpret that how you want to.

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Ono,

As a knowledgeable boxing fan, I'm sure you know that a lightweight ages at a very different rate than a SMW or LHW. So you would not make that comparison.

If I'm looking at it wrong, I'm willing to accept new knowledge. Please list me all the former lightweights who were still very good at 36.

1) Shane Mosley
2)
3)
4)

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Originally Posted by Mr140

How is Mosley, Trinadad, and Vargas were not elite guys and Bernard to.

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I don't understand your question. Please rephrase.

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Originally Posted by DIOS DOMINICANO

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Originally Posted by ono

I'm not trying to take anything away from Mayweather's win over ODLH....i was simply using the same analogy that DIOS had used when belittling Hatton.

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Dude. Stop with the "belittling hatton" silliness. I stated facts. I'm a factual poster.

We are boxing fans. We should be able to OBJECTIVELY talk about fights and fighters. If you can't read about your guy's weaknesses without becoming upset, or getting your feelings hurt, then you are not a fan. You are a groupie.

Delahoya has fought top guys in their prime. So has Mosley. Mayweather has fought top guys in their prime. So has Judah. Cotto fought Judah and malignaggi. They are good, but not quite elite.

Hatton has not fought a prime elite yet. He will on 12/8. Ricky has looked good against the older fighters, and hasn't been so impressive against the younger, fresher guys lately. This is a terrific opportunity to validate his top 10 p4p ranking. Let's not get emotional. The fight is in two weeks. We'll see what happens.

Let's just hope that the questions about BOTH Mayweather and Hatton get answered on 12/8.

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Have you refered to another post because your struggling for an answer to my last post?

And when you start a thread which basically translates into 'these 7 guys would have battered Hatton' 2 weeks before he is fighting your love idol, it kinda comes across as 'belittling'

For god sake man, you even listed the 4am start as one of the reason's Tszyu lost......like fighting in the middle of the night is to Hatton's advantage... ::**

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Originally Posted by ono

Have you refered to another post because your struggling for an answer to my last post?

And when you start a thread which basically translates into 'these 7 guys would have battered Hatton' 2 weeks before he is fighting your love idol, it kinda comes across as 'belittling'

For god sake man, you even listed the 4am start as one of the reason's Tszyu lost......like fighting in the middle of the night is to Hatton's advantage...

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The only one here who is struggling seems to be you. You have struggled to understand a fantasy matchups thread.

I created a thread that asked open-ended questions. If that pisses you off, then perhaps you are bearing your fandom too emotionally.

Question: if the time zone/difference was meaningless, why did Hatton ask for tune-ups fights prior to FMJ and SPECIFICALLY mention the time zones as a reason? Thanks in advance for your reply.

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Originally Posted by DIOS DOMINICANO

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Originally Posted by ono

Calzaghe is almost 36.....he's had injuries, he's had surgeries, he's had long lay off's.....interpret that how you want to.

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Ono,

As a knowledgeable boxing fan, I'm sure you know that a lightweight ages at a very different rate than a SMW or LHW. So you would not make that comparison.

If I'm looking at it wrong, I'm willing to accept new knowledge. Please list me all the former lightweights who were still very good at 36.

1) Shane Mosley
2)
3)
4)

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what scientific fact backs up that analogy

if your 10 stone you will lose your boxing ability quicker than you would if you were 12 stone?

are fights at 140 more action packed thus taking more out of you?

So if Calzaghe was 10 stone (140) he wouldn't be able to throw 1000 punches per fight?

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Originally Posted by ono

what scientific fact backs up that analogy

if your 10 stone you will lose your boxing ability quicker than you would if you were 12 stone?

are fights at 140 more action packed thus taking more out of you?

So if Calzaghe was 10 stone (140) he wouldn't be able to throw 1000 punches per fight?

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Ono,

The fact that you don't understand or recognize that smaller fighters generally age faster than bigger fighters means that this conversation is not productive.

I'll leave it alone.

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Originally Posted by DIOS DOMINICANO

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Originally Posted by ono

Have you refered to another post because your struggling for an answer to my last post?

And when you start a thread which basically translates into 'these 7 guys would have battered Hatton' 2 weeks before he is fighting your love idol, it kinda comes across as 'belittling'

For god sake man, you even listed the 4am start as one of the reason's Tszyu lost......like fighting in the middle of the night is to Hatton's advantage...

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The only one here who is struggling seems to be you. You have struggled to understand a fantasy matchups thread.

I created a thread that asked open-ended questions. If that pisses you off, then perhaps you are bearing your fandom too emotionally.

Question: if the time zone/difference was meaningless, why did Hatton ask for tune-ups fights prior to FMJ and SPECIFICALLY mention the time zones as a reason? Thanks in advance for your reply.

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When did i say it was pissing me off?

You know very well what you were doing by starting this thread and playing all innocent when at least 2 other people on this thread have said the exact same thing, is basically making you look bad pal.

Question: if the time zone/difference was meaningless, why did Hatton ask for tune-ups fights prior to FMJ and SPECIFICALLY mention the time zones as a reason? Thanks in advance for your reply.

The time zone is renderred meaningless when it doesn't favour either fighter. that was the 1st time hatton had fought at 4am aswell.

The tune ups weren't to get used to the time zone....they were to establish himself in America.

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Originally Posted by DIOS DOMINICANO

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Originally Posted by ono

what scientific fact backs up that analogy

if your 10 stone you will lose your boxing ability quicker than you would if you were 12 stone?

are fights at 140 more action packed thus taking more out of you?

So if Calzaghe was 10 stone (140) he wouldn't be able to throw 1000 punches per fight?

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Ono,

The fact that you don't understand or recognize that smaller fighters generally age faster than bigger fighters means that this conversation is not productive.

I'll leave it alone.

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Dios,

the fact that you cannot find anything to back up your dumb analogy means that this conversation is not productive as you are blowing out of your arse

I'll leave it alone.

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Originally Posted by ono

The time zone is renderred meaningless when it doesn't favour either fighter. that was the 1st time hatton had fought at 4am aswell.

The tune ups weren't to get used to the time zone....they were to establish himself in America.

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HERE IS A QUOTE FROM THE HATTON CAMP:

From Seconds Out.

But Hatton believes his son needs the experience of fighting abroad before he takes on the super-talented three-division champion Mayweather.

He said: "Richard needs the experience of training aboard for a fight for the very first time, getting used to that, he needs to have the experience of doing everything the American television and media will expect him to do, getting used to the different time zones, fighting in front of an American crowd - all that.

"And I don't want him to have to deal with all that for the very first time and fight someone like Mayweather as well. Richard isn't a big head, he's got no ego on him, and he will tell you himself that Mayweather is the biggest danger out there for him. That's why he wants to fight Mayweather most of all now he's already beaten Kostya Tszyu, who was the No.1 before Ricky beat him. So, when Richard does fight Mayweather I want Richard comfortable with where he's training and everything else that goes with having a big fight in America."

Wllie Pep was a good fighter still when he was 44 he was still fighting and then there is Benny Leonard, Roberto Duran, Carlos Oritz were at lightweight and they were still being good fighters and they were 36 years of age and up and still were doing well.

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Originally Posted by ono

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Originally Posted by DIOS DOMINICANO

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Originally Posted by ono

Calzaghe is almost 36.....he's had injuries, he's had surgeries, he's had long lay off's.....interpret that how you want to.

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Ono,

As a knowledgeable boxing fan, I'm sure you know that a lightweight ages at a very different rate than a SMW or LHW. So you would not make that comparison.

If I'm looking at it wrong, I'm willing to accept new knowledge. Please list me all the former lightweights who were still very good at 36.

1) Shane Mosley
2)
3)
4)

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what scientific fact backs up that analogy

if your 10 stone you will lose your boxing ability quicker than you would if you were 12 stone?

are fights at 140 more action packed thus taking more out of you?

So if Calzaghe was 10 stone (140) he wouldn't be able to throw 1000 punches per fight?

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The reasoning goes that fighters in the lower weights throw a lot more punches than fighters in the higher weights. Which means they take a lot more punches. They get hit more. Which is why they tend to age faster than fighters in the higher weights who get hit less

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Originally Posted by ono

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Originally Posted by Mr140

Good point ono some people discredit Hatton beating a old Tszyu but then they never bring up how old Oscar was when he was beat by a sd by PBF.

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yeh exactly

I'm not trying to take anything away from Mayweather's win over ODLH....i was simply using the same analogy that DIOS had used when belittling Hatton.

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Ono Its an exercise in futility with this One.Hes an obvious Hype man for the Floyd camp!The casual ease with which He diminishes the overall accomplishments of the fighters brought into the conversation is Stunning.
He comes of like a lawyer or an Agent.Its pointless.He most likely wont be around after the fight.

Violent you could also say since the higher weight get high harder that they get effected just as bad as the lower weights.

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Originally Posted by Mr140

Wllie Pep was a good fighter still when he was 44 he was still fighting and then there is Benny Leonard, Roberto Duran, Carlos Oritz were at lightweight and they were still being good fighters and they were 36 years of age and up and still were doing well.

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140,

this post is just extremely factually inaccurate. You may want to verify your position.

Your Willie Pep statement is pretty insane. And Duran's work in his 30's is FAR off his work in his 20s.

Yea but they still fought and won at those ages and still kept fighting on a good level.

And you mention Mosley but he is not as good not many fighters are better in there 30's then they are in 20's whats your point.

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Originally Posted by Mr140

Violent you could also say since the higher weight get high harder that they get effected just as bad as the lower weights.

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Not really. Cuz the higher weights are pretty much hitting people just as big as they are. Just like the lower weights are hitting people just as small as they are. The impact is the same. So it pretty much comes down to how often they get hit. The lower weights have way better stamina than the higher weight. So the lower weight fighters get hit a lot more than the higher weight fighters cuz they throw more punches

Explain why there are more knock outs at the higher weights if the size is not as effected just to ask.

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Originally Posted by Mr140

Violent you could also say since the higher weight get high harder that they get effected just as bad as the lower weights.

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Take, for example, the current P4P list. Or even previous P4p standings. Is it a coincidence that there is a strong correlation between age and size? And has always been?

Guys in the lower divisions tend to be 26-31. Guys in the middle to upper divisions tend to be older?

I highly suggest that you ask a boxing insider, if you do not believe.

Yea but i have seen plenty of guys in hire weight fall out of prime earlier then most.

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Originally Posted by Mr140

Yea but they still fought and won at those ages and still kept fighting on a good level.

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Pep was fighting and winning at 44? "At a good level"?

Good day, sir.

Ok i miss read the dates but he still was older then Mosley and doing well at the weight.

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Originally Posted by Mr140

Yea but i have seen plenty of guys in hire weight fall out of prime earlier then most.

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140,

Are you comfortable with the phrase "generally"? Do you understand that there are exceptions to nearly everything?

But we don't operate on the exceptions in life. We operate on the way things NORMALLY work.

Bernard Hopkins is 43. But that is UNUSUAL. The vast majority of boxers aren't that effective at that age. Similarly, Fernando Vargas was probably shot by 26. That is also unusual.

Build a bell curve, mate. We are talking about the 1 or 2 sigma. Not the 3-sigma.

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Originally Posted by Mr140

Explain why there are more knock outs at the higher weights if the size is not as effected just to ask.

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You got some kind of stat your going by? There's knock outs in all weight classes.

Ok tell me what weight classes are you talking about 140 and below and then the rest are high or what just to ask. and VD it seems to me that after 140 and up from there they seem to be more knock outs and a lot more one punch knockouts i could be looking at it wrong though.

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Originally Posted by Mr140

Ok i miss read the dates but he still was older then Mosley and doing well at the weight.

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What good wins did Pep have above 35. Name them, please.

.... and don't go to use boxrec as a crutch.

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Originally Posted by Spicoli Surfs In 'Nawlins

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Originally Posted by ono

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Originally Posted by Mr140

Good point ono some people discredit Hatton beating a old Tszyu but then they never bring up how old Oscar was when he was beat by a sd by PBF.

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yeh exactly

I'm not trying to take anything away from Mayweather's win over ODLH....i was simply using the same analogy that DIOS had used when belittling Hatton.

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Ono Its an exercise in futility with this One.Hes an obvious Hype man for the Floyd camp!The casual ease with which He diminishes the overall accomplishments of the fighters brought into the conversation is Stunning.
He comes of like a lawyer or an Agent.Its pointless.He most likely wont be around after the fight.

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I think he fancies himself as some sort of moral leader.

Dios what do you consider a lower weight 140 and below or what just to ask you so i know what you consider a lower weight.

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Originally Posted by DIOS DOMINICANO

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Originally Posted by ono

The time zone is renderred meaningless when it doesn't favour either fighter. that was the 1st time hatton had fought at 4am aswell.

The tune ups weren't to get used to the time zone....they were to establish himself in America.

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HERE IS A QUOTE FROM THE HATTON CAMP:

From Seconds Out.

But Hatton believes his son needs the experience of fighting abroad before he takes on the super-talented three-division champion Mayweather.

He said: "Richard needs the experience of training aboard for a fight for the very first time, getting used to that, he needs to have the experience of doing everything the American television and media will expect him to do, getting used to the different time zones, fighting in front of an American crowd - all that.

"And I don't want him to have to deal with all that for the very first time and fight someone like Mayweather as well. Richard isn't a big head, he's got no ego on him, and he will tell you himself that Mayweather is the biggest danger out there for him. That's why he wants to fight Mayweather most of all now he's already beaten Kostya Tszyu, who was the No.1 before Ricky beat him. So, when Richard does fight Mayweather I want Richard comfortable with where he's training and everything else that goes with having a big fight in America."

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yeh well done pal but you've still entirely missed the point again...

Hatton would need to adjust to the time zone if he was fighting an American based fighter in the US.....oooo like Collazo.

Kostya Tszyu was fighting a UK fighter at 4am UK time.

Please explain to me how this pits Hatton at an advantage?

Maybe i am missing something?

Because if we are talking 140 lower as a lower weight i can name a good amount of guys to become successful at older ages just to ask.

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Originally Posted by ono

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Originally Posted by DIOS DOMINICANO

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Originally Posted by ono

The time zone is renderred meaningless when it doesn't favour either fighter. that was the 1st time hatton had fought at 4am aswell.

The tune ups weren't to get used to the time zone....they were to establish himself in America.

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HERE IS A QUOTE FROM THE HATTON CAMP:

From Seconds Out.

But Hatton believes his son needs the experience of fighting abroad before he takes on the super-talented three-division champion Mayweather.

He said: "Richard needs the experience of training aboard for a fight for the very first time, getting used to that, he needs to have the experience of doing everything the American television and media will expect him to do, getting used to the different time zones, fighting in front of an American crowd - all that.

"And I don't want him to have to deal with all that for the very first time and fight someone like Mayweather as well. Richard isn't a big head, he's got no ego on him, and he will tell you himself that Mayweather is the biggest danger out there for him. That's why he wants to fight Mayweather most of all now he's already beaten Kostya Tszyu, who was the No.1 before Ricky beat him. So, when Richard does fight Mayweather I want Richard comfortable with where he's training and everything else that goes with having a big fight in America."

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yeh well done pal but you've still entirely missed the point again...

Hatton would need to adjust to the time zone if he was fighting an American based fighter in the US.....oooo like Collazo.

Kostya Tszyu was fighting a UK fighter at 4am UK time.

Please explain to me how this pits Hatton at an advantage?

Maybe i am missing something?

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I'm with Ono, it's the humidity aswell I remmeber Hatton saying, but that is as bad "The time was a factor for Hatton" as I heard somebody after the Hatton-Castillo fight saying "Catillo never got up from that bodyshot beacuse he never got paid"

Whoever said that can you let me know because I will CC you for it, it really is that bad of a statement!!

BTW Oscar was a part time fighter when he fought Mayweather and was 2-3 but REALLY 1-4.

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Originally Posted by ono

Maybe i am missing something?

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Clearly.

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Originally Posted by DIOS DOMINICANO

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Originally Posted by Mr140

Good point ono some people discredit Hatton beating a old Tszyu but then they never bring up how old Oscar was when he was beat by a sd by PBF.

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Oscar was past his prime when Floyd fought him. No Doubt.

But, on balance, Oscar was younger, bigger, healthier, and just BETTER than Kostya Tszyu.

Kostya Tszyu was a very good fighter, but can you ever envision Cool Vince Phillips giving Oscar a brutal beatdown? The same Vince Phillips that Ike Quartey blew out in a couple of rounds?

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I go back to 1997/98 and say if Oscar had not won the Whitaker and Quartey fights which were both debatable then which direction would his career have taken? I have no doubt that DLH ducked Tszyu in 96/97 and was lucky to get those decisions. So Tszyu lost to Phillips, his performances from 1998 to 2002 were awesome and a rematch with Phillips should have happened but for the fact that it would have lasted about 2 rounds.

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Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN

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Originally Posted by DIOS DOMINICANO

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Originally Posted by Mr140

Good point ono some people discredit Hatton beating a old Tszyu but then they never bring up how old Oscar was when he was beat by a sd by PBF.

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Oscar was past his prime when Floyd fought him. No Doubt.

But, on balance, Oscar was younger, bigger, healthier, and just BETTER than Kostya Tszyu.

Kostya Tszyu was a very good fighter, but can you ever envision Cool Vince Phillips giving Oscar a brutal beatdown? The same Vince Phillips that Ike Quartey blew out in a couple of rounds?

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I go back to 1997/98 and say if Oscar had not won the Whitaker and Quartey fights which were both debatable then which direction would his career have taken? I have no doubt that DLH ducked Tszyu in 96/97 and was lucky to get those decisions. So Tszyu lost to Phillips, his performances from 1998 to 2002 were awesome and a rematch with Phillips should have happened but for the fact that it would have lasted about 2 rounds.

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That's just a foolish statement. De La Hoya-Tszyu was being set up. But those plans were canceled when Phillips knocked out Tszyu. So for anybody to say De La Hoya ducked Tszyu is just plain dumb. It's not De La Hoya fault that Tszyu got stopped. Tszyu has only has himself to blame for the De La Hoya fight not happening. Well he can blame Phillips too I guess.

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Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN

I go back to 1997/98 and say if Oscar had not won the Whitaker and Quartey fights which were both debatable then which direction would his career have taken? I have no doubt that DLH ducked Tszyu in 96/97 and was lucky to get those decisions. So Tszyu lost to Phillips, his performances from 1998 to 2002 were awesome and a rematch with Phillips should have happened but for the fact that it would have lasted about 2 rounds.

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No.

The Tszyu-Phillips rematch did not happen because Tszyu did not want it. Zoo ran from that rematch for YEARS. Vince was BEGGING for the rematch to validate the first victory.

Kostya wanted none of it.