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Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
I can see that too. I don't think Ali would just tire. I think Lewis would force him to fight at a faster pace and that would make him tire. Lewis is more than likely better than every big man Ali ever faced, including Foreman as he knew how to rely on things other than his power. Lewis could move and one of his favorite things was to keep you on the edge of that jab of his. Ali would have had to work to get inside and Lennox would have sprung that right on him when he did. Ali would have been burning the candle at both ends to react to Lennox's quick 1-2 and working to get around his jab. Lewis never gave up his most natural advantage- his height. He would have kept that guard around his body and made Ali work to get to his head. That would have been a tall order.
Klitschko Ali would have had an easier time with. He hits harder, but he's not quite as fast or well polished. Ali's speed would have blanked him- he wouldn't have seen the jab coming and his chin is allergic to leather. I say Ali KOs him and in a hurry because he wouldn't have wanted to risk getting caught clean with that right hand.
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Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
Lennox Lewis for me beats any other Heavyweight champion in a best of 3 fight senario.
You may not agree but thats my opinion.
A reasonabler opinion and not outlandish.
He was a great fighter a guy who (similar to Ali) was a natural athlete, but had the strength of mind ad determination to converrt that into success.
See Audley Harrisson another guy gifted physically, but just not blessed with the mentality to be a good fighter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by liquid
I can see that too. I don't think Ali would just tire. I think Lewis would force him to fight at a faster pace and that would make him tire. Lewis is more than likely better than every big man Ali ever faced, including Foreman as he knew how to rely on things other than his power. Lewis could move and one of his favorite things was to keep you on the edge of that jab of his. Ali would have had to work to get inside and Lennox would have sprung that right on him when he did. Ali would have been burning the candle at both ends to react to Lennox's quick 1-2 and working to get around his jab. Lewis never gave up his most natural advantage- his height. He would have kept that guard around his body and made Ali work to get to his head. That would have been a tall order.
Klitschko Ali would have had an easier time with. He hits harder, but he's not quite as fast or well polished. Ali's speed would have blanked him- he wouldn't have seen the jab coming and his chin is allergic to leather. I say Ali KOs him and in a hurry because he wouldn't have wanted to risk getting caught clean with that right hand.
In that fight I really thoink it would be to the wire, but for me ali could clinch it, for you mayb Lewis.
It would be similar with the judges but I'd say SD to Ali.
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Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
To me I don't think Ali was even near the greatest fighter in the heavies.Let's be honest the guy held entirely too much and was never penalized.I mean I watched the Frazier trilogy recently and not once was he deducted a point for constantly pull down behind the neck.I counted 108 clinches in the 2nd Ali fight mostly from Frazier trying to come in close and Ali grabbing behind the head.Holding is a foul.Rule number 1 in all off the organization hand books is there is NO HOLDING ALLOWED.Not only was it so obvious in the Frazier fight but The Shavers,fight along with Bonavena,Norton,Foreman and yes they are all in the tapes watch them carefully.Another I could never understand late in Ali's career I must ask how in the hell do you win a round by sitting on the ropes and tapping at your oppenents head.To me the fight game went a different route almost to an amateur level when Ali came around.Rounds went to the guy who landed more points but back before Ali it was too the agressor and the man who came to fight.Anyway I would take many to beat Ali if the ref wasn't so threatened by Ali's entourage and following.
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Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fightfan
To me I don't think Ali was even near the greatest fighter in the heavies.Let's be honest the guy held entirely too much and was never penalized.I mean I watched the Frazier trilogy recently and not once was he deducted a point for constantly pull down behind the neck.I counted 108 clinches in the 2nd Ali fight mostly from Frazier trying to come in close and Ali grabbing behind the head.Holding is a foul.Rule number 1 in all off the organization hand books is there is NO HOLDING ALLOWED.Not only was it so obvious in the Frazier fight but The Shavers,fight along with Bonavena,Norton,Foreman and yes they are all in the tapes watch them carefully.Another I could never understand late in Ali's career I must ask how in the hell do you win a round by sitting on the ropes and tapping at your oppenents head.To me the fight game went a different route almost to an amateur level when Ali came around.Rounds went to the guy who landed more points but back before Ali it was too the agressor and the man who came to fight.Anyway I would take many to beat Ali if the ref wasn't so threatened by Ali's entourage and following.
Have your 4 CC on me well said i never can understand where all this *Ali Is Unbeatable* Stuff comes from, i mean really and truthfuly you could make a case for Ali having 10 losses on his record. And IMO he should for 100 percent have at least 8 losses on his record he got gift decisions off. Young, Shavers, Norton 3rd fight, and if he would have lost these fights like a lot of people thought he should have then would people still consider him Greatest Heavyweight of all time ??
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Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
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Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
Fighters that could have beat Ali in the 60's on any given night
Holmes
Louis
Tyson
Holyfield
Lewis
Frazier
Any one who says different is caught up in the romance of yester year.
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Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Rock
Fighters that could have beat Ali in the 60's on any given night
Holmes
Tyson
Holyfield
Lewis
Frazier
Any one who says different is caught up in the romance of yester year.
You can add.
Bowe
Foreman = Call me crazy but Ali in 60s was not as smart as 70s version, and he got caught a lot by lesser fighters i think Foreman has a good chance.
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Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
Lennox Lewis for me beats any other Heavyweight champion in a best of 3 fight senario.
You may not agree but thats my opinion.
Thats not an unreasonable assumption....Lewis is without a doubt in the top 5 or 6 all time heavyweights...The guys had it all...Size, Power and most of all he would box...not too many large HWts in history can claim the boxing skills Lewis can,,,,Also Lewis could out and out just assult a guy....I mean attck a guy and punish him to no end...Lennox is one of the best finishers I have ever seen....and contrary to popular belief his chin was pretty damn solid.....Yes he was starched twice by 1 shot KO's but lets face it those shots could have KO'd any fighter...McCall and Rahman at that time in their careers were very hard hitters and Lennox was out of shape so the combination of the two equaled disaster...In the rematches it was made very clear those two both just happened to catch Lewis at the right moment...99 out of 100 times they lose to him......
He beat everyone who was anyone during his reign and as I have said before when Lennox was champion there were no doubts on who the REAL HW champion was.....
Lennox Lewis when he fought at 240lbs was a good as any fighter can possibly be
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Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daxx Kahn
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
Lennox Lewis for me beats any other Heavyweight champion in a best of 3 fight senario.
You may not agree but thats my opinion.
Thats not an unreasonable assumption....Lewis is without a doubt in the top 5 or 6 all time heavyweights...The guys had it all...Size, Power and most of all he would box...not too many large HWts in history can claim the boxing skills Lewis can,,,,Also Lewis could out and out just assult a guy....I mean attck a guy and punish him to no end...Lennox is one of the best finishers I have ever seen....and contrary to popular belief his chin was pretty damn solid.....Yes he was starched twice by 1 shot KO's but lets face it those shots could have KO'd any fighter...McCall and Rahman at that time in their careers were very hard hitters and Lennox was out of shape so the combination of the two equaled disaster...In the rematches it was made very clear those two both just happened to catch Lewis at the right moment...99 out of 100 times they lose to him......
He beat everyone who was anyone during his reign and as I have said before when Lennox was champion there were no doubts on who the REAL HW champion was.....
Lennox Lewis when he fought at 240lbs was a good as any fighter can possibly be
The only thing i didn't like about Lewis was that he got lazy in fights, and he seemed to lose concentration. And he would get nailed with big shots.
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Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
If it weren't for Ocean's 11 there would be no such thing as a Hasim Rahman. Lewis was winning by my account before Rahman kayoed him.
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Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
What nobody here is thinking about
Your all
A) Being brit homers
B) The title of the thread is 60's Ali,he didnt fight Frazier or Foreman in the 60's,so your judging the Ali of the title thread,on the footage youve seen of Ali of the 70's after a 3 year layoff.Thats like trying to say the Tyson who fought Jesse Ferguson,is exactly the same as the one who lost to Lennox Lewis. If that was the case,lets dig up Joe Louis and see if he can re-win the title.
Lewis's footwork was plodding,and can not see the chin that couldnt survive Oliver "Tears" McCall surviving Ali.
Bowe,you could make a case for a motivated Bowe,but after he won the title,you couldnt get the words motivated and Bowe in to the same sentance with a forklift
Both fighters regardless,rely on cutting off the ring,that was more or less impossable with that version of Ali
Ali's only real flaw was underestimating guys,and playing,not getting dropped,or outworked. He could have dropped Patterson at any time he wanted,but he screwed around with him.Even Ali Mach 2 could have dropped Wepner easily early on,but wanted to get in some rounds,but unlike say Chuvallo or Bonavena,or Foley(etc),and I give Chuck all the credit on earth for this,he was so happy to still be standing it gave him an extra gear.But even Wepner realised in the last couple of rounds that Ali was just fooling with him,and he'd just gotten lucky on the knockdown.I often wonder looking at Ali's face when he gets up if he was just torturing the guy because he was mad about it. Ali definitly could be like that so its possible.
Like it or not,we still discuss and compare to Ali,even though he hasnt been able to hold a cup of coffee for over 20 years now,is he was just that damned good.Somehow you cant seem to get a very rousing 4 page Ken Norton debate going
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Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
What nobody here is thinking about
Your all
A) Being brit homers
B) The title of the thread is 60's Ali,he didnt fight Frazier or Foreman in the 60's,so your judging the Ali of the title thread,on the footage youve seen of Ali of the 70's after a 3 year layoff.Thats like trying to say the Tyson who fought Jesse Ferguson,is exactly the same as the one who lost to Lennox Lewis. If that was the case,lets dig up Joe Louis and see if he can re-win the title.
Lewis's footwork was plodding,and can not see the chin that couldnt survive Oliver "Tears" McCall surviving Ali.
Bowe,you could make a case for a motivated Bowe,but after he won the title,you couldnt get the words motivated and Bowe in to the same sentance with a forklift
Both fighters regardless,rely on cutting off the ring,that was more or less impossable with that version of Ali
Ali's only real flaw was underestimating guys,and playing,not getting dropped,or outworked. He could have dropped Patterson at any time he wanted,but he screwed around with him.Even Ali Mach 2 could have dropped Wepner easily early on,but wanted to get in some rounds,but unlike say Chuvallo or Bonavena,or Foley(etc),and I give Chuck all the credit on earth for this,he was so happy to still be standing it gave him an extra gear.But even Wepner realised in the last couple of rounds that Ali was just fooling with him,and he'd just gotten lucky on the knockdown.I often wonder looking at Ali's face when he gets up if he was just torturing the guy because he was mad about it. Ali definitly could be like that so its possible.
Like it or not,we still discuss and compare to Ali,even though he hasnt been able to hold a cup of coffee for over 20 years now,is he was just that damned good.Somehow you cant seem to get a very rousing 4 page Ken Norton debate going
Being brit homers
???
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Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
Well let me ask you guys something.When Sonny Liston was in out of prison. One of the stories was he took on 5 policemen with billyclubs all of them winding up and cracking him in the head.Now how can Ali do a little old step'n'fetch and have him rolling all over the canvas and don't say a blinding shot.There is a reason that second fight was in a high school gymnasium.There is a reason also that Sonny Liston died mysteriously by a heroin overdose when he did everything in his power to stay away from people like that.Ali was beloved and very protected I'll keep it at that.
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Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
Uhh, I don't know nothin', I ain't seen nothin' :-X
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Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fightfan
Well let me ask you guys something.When Sonny Liston was in out of prison. One of the stories was he took on 5 policemen with billyclubs all of them winding up and cracking him in the head.Now how can Ali do a little old step'n'fetch and have him rolling all over the canvas and don't say a blinding shot.There is a reason that second fight was in a high school gymnasium.There is a reason also that Sonny Liston died mysteriously by a heroin overdose when he did everything in his power to stay away from people like that.Ali was beloved and very protected I'll keep it at that.
You kidding?
Liston had track marks all over him,and was doing leg breaking work for years
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Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
I think you are confused my friend.Sonny always talked bad about drug dealers and users ask his wife or just read is autobiography.Hell even ask Foreman how much Liston hated druggers.
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Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
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Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Rock
Fighters that could have beat Ali in the 60's on any given night
Holmes
Louis
Tyson
Holyfield
Lewis
Frazier
Any one who says different is caught up in the romance of yester year.
I would add Wlad and Vitali not because they are the greatest ever but they are hella big, athletic, and they punch hard.....Vitali was also crazy awkward.
And Marciano and Shavers....they always had a puncher's chance and anyone can be KO'd even Ali, he just never got hit correctly (minus Cooper and Frazier) and no one followed up on him....more a credit to him than a discredit to his opponents
And yeah Bowe moved very well and worked hard and Foreman would give him trouble when he was young and cocky too.
I think someone like Roy Jones Jr. would be difficult for him to fight too although RJ was mighty small for a heavyweight he was quick and packed a punch, he was also better defensively than say a Bob Foster
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Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
One thing is for sure Lewis wouldn't have beaten him! There appears to be a trend in this subject to question Ali's close decisions or gifts. Granted he had a close call with Jones but how old was he? 21! Heavyweights today don't even start until they are in their mid twenties and mature in their mid thirties!
Cooper knocked him down with a perfect left hook, so was big Henry a bum? No he wasn't, he was a bloody good fighter at HW for many years. Lewis would have lost a lopsided Ud against a prime 60's Ali.
Every champion has a close call or two, Lewis copped a bad one against Holyfield in their first fight but got a gift in their second.
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Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN
One thing is for sure Lewis wouldn't have beaten him! There appears to be a trend in this subject to question Ali's close decisions or gifts. Granted he had a close call with Jones but how old was he? 21! Heavyweights today don't even start until they are in their mid twenties and mature in their mid thirties!
Cooper knocked him down with a perfect left hook, so was big Henry a bum? No he wasn't, he was a bloody good fighter at HW for many years. Lewis would have lost a lopsided Ud against a prime 60's Ali.
Every champion has a close call or two, Lewis copped a bad one against Holyfield in their first fight but got a gift in their second.
Cooper was never top Heavyweight fighter he was good Domestic/European level he lost to all of the top boys in brutal fashion. And what makes it even worse is that Ali should of been DQ in the fight with Cooper
Lewis vs Holyfield 2 was a very close fight that i had Lewis edging but you can't compare that to flat out gift decisions that Ali got like, Norton vs Ali 3 a lot of people consider that a robbery so do i, Young vs Ali most ringside experts had Young winning so did i. He also got a gift against Shavers as well. And you mention Ali was only young when he fought Doug Jones but he won the title off Liston 1 year after that fight, so he wasn't far from his prime.
In fact Ali fought Jones, then Cooper, then Liston. So he was very close to his peak.
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Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
....also Gene Tunney he was tough too he would have had a shot
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Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardo "Finito" Lopez
Quote:
Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN
One thing is for sure Lewis wouldn't have beaten him! There appears to be a trend in this subject to question Ali's close decisions or gifts. Granted he had a close call with Jones but how old was he? 21! Heavyweights today don't even start until they are in their mid twenties and mature in their mid thirties!
Cooper knocked him down with a perfect left hook, so was big Henry a bum? No he wasn't, he was a bloody good fighter at HW for many years. Lewis would have lost a lopsided Ud against a prime 60's Ali.
Every champion has a close call or two, Lewis copped a bad one against Holyfield in their first fight but got a gift in their second.
Cooper was never top Heavyweight fighter he was good Domestic/European level he lost to all of the top boys in brutal fashion. And what makes it even worse is that Ali should of been DQ in the fight with Cooper
Lewis vs Holyfield 2 was a very close fight that i had Lewis edging but you can't compare that to flat out gift decisions that Ali got like, Norton vs Ali 3 a lot of people consider that a robbery so do i, Young vs Ali most ringside experts had Young winning so did i. He also got a gift against Shavers as well. And you mention Ali was only young when he fought Doug Jones but he won the title off Liston 1 year after that fight, so he wasn't far from his prime.
In fact Ali fought Jones, then Cooper, then Liston. So he was very close to his peak.
In Lewis V Holyfield 2 i didn't give a round to Lewis until the 9th! I agree the Norton fights were gifts but that was in the 70's and Cooper although not a number one contender was a good win for Ali considering his age at the time of the fight. ( I agree about the possible DQ) The Ali age thing i mention due to the fact that most HW do not reach the prime until their late 20's or early 30's. I find it difficult to fault the Ali of 1966/67 and i cannot see anyone beating him at that time from any era.
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Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
I thought BOTH Lewis-Holyfield I AND Lewis-Holyfield II were scored for the wrong person....#1 of course Lewis won, but #2 I gave to Evander.....he really fought his ass off in that one.
You can say "Ali couldn't be beaten from 66/67" because he wasn't....I (and I am sure everyone else) just pose some THEORETICAL struggles for Ali at that stage of his career. Yes Ali was big......but he was big FOR HIS TIME....they called Jack Johnson "The Galveston Giant" and he was just 6'1.....hardly a giant at all seeing how Paul Williams A WELTERWEIGHT is 6'1 today. And Ali's movement was brand new for heavyweights back in the 60's but today it's taught to basically every tall lanky fighter.
We just figure he wouldn't have had it so easy vs guys like Lennox and Wladimir seeing how big, powerful, fast, and athletic they are.....and it's true
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Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
the 60's version of ali is a much different fighter than the 70's ali. 70's ali was beatable and it is the 70's ali that lost fights. but 60's flabslab ali, was just the best. yea he got floored by cooper, but thats because ali plays around. i think he just wanted to wait till the 5th round to really attack cooper just 2 make his prediction come true.
there is no way i can see Joe louis ever beating ali. he would chase ali around the ring all night, ali would b dancing circles arounf him slipping the jab cutting up louis. louis would have 2 land his deadly combo on him to win, but ali wouldnt let that happen. ali wins by ud. i brought up how louis almost lost 2 conn, but conn decided 2 trade w/ louis and got ktfo. im saying if conn can oupoint louis, ali can, but ali would be smart enough, not 2 go toe2toe until louis is ready to fall
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Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
....Joe Louis wasn't as robotic as people think....he was quite a fighter and my #1 heavyweight of ALL-TIME and yes it's staying no matter how much anyone argues about it.
Joe Louis could beat anyone any given night
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Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
....Joe Louis wasn't as robotic as people think....he was quite a fighter and my #1 heavyweight of ALL-TIME and yes it's staying no matter how much anyone argues about it.
Joe Louis could beat anyone any given night
Joe was a great man no doubt , but to suggest he could beat a Foreman or a Lewis is just daft , he was to small , chin suspect, and to slow of foot for an Ali or Lennox Lewis.
But hey fair enough if thats your opinion Lyle :)
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Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
Give joe louis two good eyes and he could defeat anybody. He fought with one eye. How many boxers ever fought with one good eye. I bet it's close to 0.
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Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardo "Finito" Lopez
Quote:
Originally Posted by undefeated
think about it--no1 could--frazier, louis, dempesy , marciano, holmes, foreman,holyfield ,tyson, and yes norton. the 60's ali was the REAL ali-FLABSLAB. no1 1 could have beaten the 60's ali
This ain't the same *Unbeatable 60s Ali* that got a gift decision against the Mediocre Doug Jones, or the same Ali that almost got KO by Cruiserweight Henry Cooper, and had to have smelling salts which wern't allowed in UK, plus have his glove split to help him survive.
Plenty could of have beaten him.
Prime Riddick Bowe
Prime Larry Holmes
Prime Lennox Lewis
Prime Joe Louis
Etc.
Oh do please,I like Holmes,but the very best Holmes there ever was couldnt knock him out even though he allready had Parkinsons
And before you say something foolish about reach or size,Ali was 6'2 and had good reach even by todays standards
Tale of tape
Muhammad Ali
Height 6 foot 2
Reach 80 inches
Weight approx 220.
Lennox Lewis
Height: 6 foot 5
Reach: 85 inches
Weight: approx 255
Nuff said.
Spot on as usual Eagle. Like comparing Jessie Owens to Carl Lewis.
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Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bikersk
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardo "Finito" Lopez
Quote:
Originally Posted by undefeated
think about it--no1 could--frazier, louis, dempesy , marciano, holmes, foreman,holyfield ,tyson, and yes norton. the 60's ali was the REAL ali-FLABSLAB. no1 1 could have beaten the 60's ali
This ain't the same *Unbeatable 60s Ali* that got a gift decision against the Mediocre Doug Jones, or the same Ali that almost got KO by Cruiserweight Henry Cooper, and had to have smelling salts which wern't allowed in UK, plus have his glove split to help him survive.
Plenty could of have beaten him.
Prime Riddick Bowe
Prime Larry Holmes
Prime Lennox Lewis
Prime Joe Louis
Etc.
Oh do please,I like Holmes,but the very best Holmes there ever was couldnt knock him out even though he allready had Parkinsons
And before you say something foolish about reach or size,Ali was 6'2 and had good reach even by todays standards
Tale of tape
Muhammad Ali
Height 6 foot 2
Reach 80 inches
Weight approx 220.
Lennox Lewis
Height: 6 foot 5
Reach: 85 inches
Weight: approx 255
Nuff said.
Spot on as usual Eagle. Like comparing Jessie Owens to Carl Lewis.
Really
Oliver Mccall 6'2
Hasim Rahman 6'2
What do they both have in common other then being slower and less powerful then Ali,take your time,it will come to you
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Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
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Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
And heavier. Wow that didn't take long did it.
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Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
Not to mention training improvements and changes in style. Jee that was quick too.
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Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
Oh yeah and nutrition and sports psychology. Wow how slow.
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Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
A peak Ali (which we did not see) was the greatest and even if someone could beat him that does not make them greater than him because you also have to beat the best in your era and be a consistant champion and no one bar Louis did that and stylewise he would loose to Ali.
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Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
And the fact that the alphabet belts let them get a shot at the champ.
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Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bikersk
And heavier. Wow that didn't take long did it.
And slower,and less powerful,and less skilled by far and away
Wow that didnt take long did it
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Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
Quote:
Originally Posted by bikersk
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardo "Finito" Lopez
Quote:
Originally Posted by undefeated
think about it--no1 could--frazier, louis, dempesy , marciano, holmes, foreman,holyfield ,tyson, and yes norton. the 60's ali was the REAL ali-FLABSLAB. no1 1 could have beaten the 60's ali
This ain't the same *Unbeatable 60s Ali* that got a gift decision against the Mediocre Doug Jones, or the same Ali that almost got KO by Cruiserweight Henry Cooper, and had to have smelling salts which wern't allowed in UK, plus have his glove split to help him survive.
Plenty could of have beaten him.
Prime Riddick Bowe
Prime Larry Holmes
Prime Lennox Lewis
Prime Joe Louis
Etc.
Oh do please,I like Holmes,but the very best Holmes there ever was couldnt knock him out even though he allready had Parkinsons
And before you say something foolish about reach or size,Ali was 6'2 and had good reach even by todays standards
Tale of tape
Muhammad Ali
Height 6 foot 2
Reach 80 inches
Weight approx 220.
Lennox Lewis
Height: 6 foot 5
Reach: 85 inches
Weight: approx 255
Nuff said.
Spot on as usual Eagle. Like comparing Jessie Owens to Carl Lewis.
Really
Oliver Mccall 6'2
Hasim Rahman 6'2
What do they both have in common other then being slower and less powerful then Ali,take your time,it will come to you
Less powerful?
Rahman was a big puncher then with like 27 or 28 ko's out of 33 or 34 bouts...he still has like 35 or 36 out of 44 or 45 wins
McCall was a fairly decent puncher at the time himself....
Ali was never a power puncher or over hard hitter don't know where you got the power from
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Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daxx Kahn
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
Quote:
Originally Posted by bikersk
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardo "Finito" Lopez
Quote:
Originally Posted by undefeated
think about it--no1 could--frazier, louis, dempesy , marciano, holmes, foreman,holyfield ,tyson, and yes norton. the 60's ali was the REAL ali-FLABSLAB. no1 1 could have beaten the 60's ali
This ain't the same *Unbeatable 60s Ali* that got a gift decision against the Mediocre Doug Jones, or the same Ali that almost got KO by Cruiserweight Henry Cooper, and had to have smelling salts which wern't allowed in UK, plus have his glove split to help him survive.
Plenty could of have beaten him.
Prime Riddick Bowe
Prime Larry Holmes
Prime Lennox Lewis
Prime Joe Louis
Etc.
Oh do please,I like Holmes,but the very best Holmes there ever was couldnt knock him out even though he allready had Parkinsons
And before you say something foolish about reach or size,Ali was 6'2 and had good reach even by todays standards
Tale of tape
Muhammad Ali
Height 6 foot 2
Reach 80 inches
Weight approx 220.
Lennox Lewis
Height: 6 foot 5
Reach: 85 inches
Weight: approx 255
Nuff said.
Spot on as usual Eagle. Like comparing Jessie Owens to Carl Lewis.
Really
Oliver Mccall 6'2
Hasim Rahman 6'2
What do they both have in common other then being slower and less powerful then Ali,take your time,it will come to you
Less powerful?
Rahman was a big puncher then with like 27 or 28 ko's out of 33 or 34 bouts...he still has like 35 or 36 out of 44 or 45 wins
McCall was a fairly decent puncher at the time himself....
Ali was never a power puncher or over hard hitter don't know where you got the power from
Really,thats of course why he would just end fights at will in the 60's
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Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
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Originally Posted by Daxx Kahn
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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
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Originally Posted by bikersk
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Originally Posted by eagle
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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
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Originally Posted by Ricardo "Finito" Lopez
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Originally Posted by undefeated
think about it--no1 could--frazier, louis, dempesy , marciano, holmes, foreman,holyfield ,tyson, and yes norton. the 60's ali was the REAL ali-FLABSLAB. no1 1 could have beaten the 60's ali
This ain't the same *Unbeatable 60s Ali* that got a gift decision against the Mediocre Doug Jones, or the same Ali that almost got KO by Cruiserweight Henry Cooper, and had to have smelling salts which wern't allowed in UK, plus have his glove split to help him survive.
Plenty could of have beaten him.
Prime Riddick Bowe
Prime Larry Holmes
Prime Lennox Lewis
Prime Joe Louis
Etc.
Oh do please,I like Holmes,but the very best Holmes there ever was couldnt knock him out even though he allready had Parkinsons
And before you say something foolish about reach or size,Ali was 6'2 and had good reach even by todays standards
Tale of tape
Muhammad Ali
Height 6 foot 2
Reach 80 inches
Weight approx 220.
Lennox Lewis
Height: 6 foot 5
Reach: 85 inches
Weight: approx 255
Nuff said.
Spot on as usual Eagle. Like comparing Jessie Owens to Carl Lewis.
Really
Oliver Mccall 6'2
Hasim Rahman 6'2
What do they both have in common other then being slower and less powerful then Ali,take your time,it will come to you
Less powerful?
Rahman was a big puncher then with like 27 or 28 ko's out of 33 or 34 bouts...he still has like 35 or 36 out of 44 or 45 wins
McCall was a fairly decent puncher at the time himself....
Ali was never a power puncher or over hard hitter don't know where you got the power from
Really,thats of course why he would just end fights at will in the 60's
Ali didn't hit like Chris Byrd but he was not what you would call a KO artist...his KO's came from speed and accumulation not sheer power like your trying to make it sound
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Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
He was in the 60's
Admittably in 70's he had to wear guys down more,but thats not the original question.
In the 60's he could just turn guys off
He almost allways did it the same way too,everyone knew it was coming, catch you coming in with the jab,and step and hook or cross
But there was nothing anyone could do about it,click,your done
