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Re: People stop saying Floyd would beat Tito
Like somebody already said, Tito lost 2 shutouts to 2 good boxers...Oscar could have won the match against him easily as well but chose to use the wrong strategy. Point being..if Winky and B-hop can score shutout victories over Tito then Floyd would 'easily' beat Tito IMO.
Tito has never done well against good boxers.
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Re: People stop saying Floyd would beat Tito
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Originally Posted by Taeth
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Originally Posted by TitoFan
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Originally Posted by Taeth
I would say Oscar at light middleweight had close to the power Trinidad had at 147... look at Trinidad's fight with Mayorga where he had to go to the body to take Mayorga out while Oscar leveled Mayorga to the head, and beat him quicker. I know that doesn't mean everything, butfrom what I saw of Trinidad against Wright it wasn't his power he lost, its that he has always had a little bit of poor timing compared to the great boxers. Against people who stand there he can land shots but he can't land against a moving target which is the biggest difference between him and his precessor Miguel Cotto who doesn't hit as hard, but he is faster and he is a better boxer.
I've heard a lot of claims regarding DLH vs Tito.... but you're one of the few I've heard claim DLH had as much punching power as Tito. You are completely disregarding the fact that Mayorga took a SH*TLOAD of punishment from Tito. By the time he fought Oscar, he was "tenderized." Same happened with Vargas. So if you want to discuss Oscar's boxing skills, go ahead. But please stop short of claiming something that just isn't true.
Its bs to say he was more tenderized when he fought Oscar, and point being Oscar didn't even "tenderize" Vargas he knocked him down with one clean left hook. after this fight a hard hitting Vargas couldn't do the same to Mayorga either. I am not saying at the same weight they have the same power, and I didn't say they have the same power I said at 154 Oscar has similar power to that Trinidad had at 147, and considering Oscar is one of the hardest punchers we've seen at 147 I think there is nothing wrong with saying that. His punches effected Hopkins just as much as Trinidad's did, he KO'ed Vargas just like Trinidad did though Trinidad did take a lot out of Vargas in their fight. I think to say Trinidad is out Oscar's league in terms of power is more of travesty to the truth than to say Oscar hit roughly as hard as Trinidad when he fought 7 pounds north of WW.
Well DLH certanly did clock Mayorga with that beautiful left hook. The look on Mayorga's face when he hit the deck was priceless. He could'nt believe what had just happend.
The thing is it usually does not work that way. Power usually decreases as you move up. So you saying that DLH had close to the power at 154 that Tito had at 147 kinda sounds like he has more power if they are in the same weight. Maybe that is why TitoFan did not understand.
Now if you said DLH had the same power at 154 that Tito had at 160. Than it makes sense. After all, Tito fought Mayorga at 160 while DLH fought him at 154.
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Re: People stop saying Floyd would beat Tito
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Originally Posted by Althugz
Like somebody already said, Tito lost 2 shutouts to 2 good boxers...Oscar could have won the match against him easily as well but chose to use the wrong strategy. Point being..if Winky and B-hop can score shutout victories over Tito then Floyd would 'easily' beat Tito IMO.
Tito has never done well against good boxers.
Again, someone that does'nt understand that this is not a p4p match up. This is a 147lb match up. Those two fights were 2 divisions north of 147. Mayweather's best was 2 divisions below 147. Are you guys seriously thinking size would be no factor at all ???
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Re: People stop saying Floyd would beat Tito
Quote:
Originally Posted by Althugz
Like somebody already said, Tito lost 2 shutouts to 2 good boxers...Oscar could have won the match against him easily as well but chose to use the wrong strategy. Point being..if Winky and B-hop can score shutout victories over Tito then Floyd would 'easily' beat Tito IMO.
Tito has never done well against good boxers.
In boxing there is no something like in Math; such as, if A is bigger than B, and B bigger than C, then A is bigger than C. Something that you are forgeting in your equation is the size and strength for example of a Bernard Hokins compared to Floyd, difference in styles, weight division, age, and there are a lot to add. It is true that Tito had strong fights with good boxers, but they had worst when Tito came back putting pressure and punching them (except for Winky and Bernard). This is what made him so great!!! He fought everybody in his division, moved up in weight twice and still won, until Hopkins. This hypothetical fight of Tito and Floyd in their prime would be a great match between the puncher and boxer.
Taking a sample of 6 straight Tito's fights, he fought De La Hoya (147, undefeated WC, gold medallist), Reid (154, undefeated WC, gold medallist), Thiam (154, mandatory fight), Vargas (154, undefeated WC), Joppy (160, WC), Hopkins (160, WC) in that order in a very short period of time. Now he is back facing a challenge that may look like a crazy move for most of the people, but it is saying for sure that Tito never ran to anyone.
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Re: People stop saying Floyd would beat Tito
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Originally Posted by The Rookie Fan
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Originally Posted by Althugz
Like somebody already said, Tito lost 2 shutouts to 2 good boxers...Oscar could have won the match against him easily as well but chose to use the wrong strategy. Point being..if Winky and B-hop can score shutout victories over Tito then Floyd would 'easily' beat Tito IMO.
Tito has never done well against good boxers.
Again, someone that does'nt understand that this is not a p4p match up. This is a 147lb match up. Those two fights were 2 divisions north of 147. Mayweather's best was 2 divisions below 147. Are you guys seriously thinking size would be no factor at all ???
Most people would disagree that the only reason Trinidad lost to Hopkins and Wright was due to weight. He would have lost the same no matter what weight the fights took place at. Styles make fights, and stylistically, he's more successful against fighters similar to him as opposed to fighters with world class boxing skills.
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Re: People stop saying Floyd would beat Tito
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Originally Posted by The Rookie Fan
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Originally Posted by Althugz
Like somebody already said, Tito lost 2 shutouts to 2 good boxers...Oscar could have won the match against him easily as well but chose to use the wrong strategy. Point being..if Winky and B-hop can score shutout victories over Tito then Floyd would 'easily' beat Tito IMO.
Tito has never done well against good boxers.
Again, someone that does'nt understand that this is not a p4p match up. This is a 147lb match up. Those two fights were 2 divisions north of 147. Mayweather's best was 2 divisions below 147. Are you guys seriously thinking size would be no factor at all ???
Um, yeah ::**, size would be no factor at all. Mayweather is just as effective at welterweight as he was at lightweight, the difference is his power was much greater at 135, unfortunately for his opponents, he's never had to rely on power to win, he's won on sheer skill. Trinidad would literally look foolish against Floyd at 147 and there isn't a betting line in the world that wouldn't open Floyd up as at least a 3-1 favorite.
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Re: People stop saying Floyd would beat Tito
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Originally Posted by skyler
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Originally Posted by The Rookie Fan
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Originally Posted by Althugz
Like somebody already said, Tito lost 2 shutouts to 2 good boxers...Oscar could have won the match against him easily as well but chose to use the wrong strategy. Point being..if Winky and B-hop can score shutout victories over Tito then Floyd would 'easily' beat Tito IMO.
Tito has never done well against good boxers.
Again, someone that does'nt understand that this is not a p4p match up. This is a 147lb match up. Those two fights were 2 divisions north of 147. Mayweather's best was 2 divisions below 147. Are you guys seriously thinking size would be no factor at all ???
Um, yeah ::**, size would be no factor at all. Mayweather is just as effective at welterweight as he was at lightweight, the difference is his power was much greater at 135, unfortunately for his opponents, he's never had to rely on power to win, he's won on sheer skill. Trinidad would literally look foolish against Floyd at 147 and there isn't a betting line in the world that wouldn't open Floyd up as at least a 3-1 favorite.
Not only his power he was much quicker at Super Featherweight, in fact i would say Mayweather is pretty much unbeatable at Super Featherweight.
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Re: People stop saying Floyd would beat Tito
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Originally Posted by clean
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Originally Posted by The Rookie Fan
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Originally Posted by Althugz
Like somebody already said, Tito lost 2 shutouts to 2 good boxers...Oscar could have won the match against him easily as well but chose to use the wrong strategy. Point being..if Winky and B-hop can score shutout victories over Tito then Floyd would 'easily' beat Tito IMO.
Tito has never done well against good boxers.
Again, someone that does'nt understand that this is not a p4p match up. This is a 147lb match up. Those two fights were 2 divisions north of 147. Mayweather's best was 2 divisions below 147. Are you guys seriously thinking size would be no factor at all ???
Most people would disagree that the only reason Trinidad lost to Hopkins and Wright was due to weight. He would have lost the same no matter what weight the fights took place at. Styles make fights, and stylistically, he's more successful against fighters similar to him as opposed to fighters with world class boxing skills.
I never meant to say that the only reason he lost was weight. But it was a factor. Hopkins was all around bigger than Tito and he was able to man-handle him down the stretch. I could see Mayweather outboxing Tito but I cannot see any welterweight manhandling him. I don't see Floyd getting Tito's respect like Hopkins did with that big right hand in the 2nd round.
As for Wright, that was just a styles mismatch. A fighter like Tito would never beat a fighter like Wright.
See, that is why we will allways disagree, to me this is all about style. I alwais felt that the style to beat Floyd is precisely Tito's. A bigger guy with a solid jab and power to end the fight quickly. A patient fighter that knows not to smother his own punches when he's in close. But it is no use arguing. Floyd's star is burning to brightly right now and you are all blinded. I for one will wait and see what the kid can do at welterweight before I'm sold that he could beat a top ten ATG WW like Tito. Much less that he would beat him easilly as some here claim. ::**
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Re: People stop saying Floyd would beat Tito
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Originally Posted by Puerto Rican Punch
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Originally Posted by Althugz
Like somebody already said, Tito lost 2 shutouts to 2 good boxers...Oscar could have won the match against him easily as well but chose to use the wrong strategy. Point being..if Winky and B-hop can score shutout victories over Tito then Floyd would 'easily' beat Tito IMO.
Tito has never done well against good boxers.
In boxing there is no something like in Math; such as, if A is bigger than B, and B bigger than C, then A is bigger than C.
Of course there isn't, you are absolutely right and I am not looking at this fight from a P4P standpoint. Also Tito's opposition was never in question..he has a great resume no doubt. However, you are now the one forgetting that Floyd is already proven against opposition that are 'bigger' in size than he is. He beat Oscar when on fight night Oscar weighed nearly a full stone heavier than he did. So we know 'size' isn't effective against Floyd and I don't think the fact that Floyd is one of the best boxers we've had for a long time is up for debate. So I just don't see one advantage that Tito has here apart from his size, which Floyd would nullify like he has done in the past. 9 times out of 10 Floyd wins this.
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Re: People stop saying Floyd would beat Tito
honestly i can see both sides of the arguement here. Make no mistake all Tito has todo is land clean once and Floyd could be ko'd....however i cannot see anyway that Tito wins a decision, this fight is made for Floyd's counterpunching and quick combinations to dazzle the judges and give him the majority of rounds.
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Re: People stop saying Floyd would beat Tito
mayweather would beat trinidad at 147
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Re: People stop saying Floyd would beat Tito
Tito was getting outboxed by Oscar for the majority of their fight at 154. Mayweather is a much better boxer at 147 than Oscar at 154. The biggest difference is that Mayweather brings it for 12 full rounds while getting better with each passing round, while Oscar always fades down the stretch.
Mayweather would box Tito's ears off at 147 en-route to a wide UD.
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Re: People stop saying Floyd would beat Tito
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Originally Posted by JT Rock
Tito has NEVER come close to fighting such an elusive target as Floyd, Whitaker was well past his best defensive prowess when they fought and no one transitions their offense from their defense as well as Mayweather does.. I see Tito getting frustrated potshotted to death and following Floyd around the ring like a Zombie similiar to Coralles(RIP) not being able to pull the trigger and maybe even getting caught by 1 or 2 flash knockdowns to further widen the defecit on points
Great post. CC. Tito's achilles heal was talented fighters with better boxing skills. Tito often lacked the ability to come up with a plan B. Oscar gave him a boxing lesson, regardless of the shady outcome, as did Winky and Hopkins. JT hit it on the head with "walking around the right like a Zombie." I don't think he could cut off the ring on Floyd. He would be looking the big punch, he would get countered all night, and on top of it, he would get bad or useless advice from his dad in the corner.
Regardless of who is the greater alltime P4P, it's just a bad matchup for Tito. Floyd is just the type of fighter who could make Tito look bad, and when fighter had the skill set, style and ability to do so, Tito could be make to bad.
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Re: People stop saying Floyd would beat Tito
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Originally Posted by RozzySean
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Originally Posted by JT Rock
Tito has NEVER come close to fighting such an elusive target as Floyd, Whitaker was well past his best defensive prowess when they fought and no one transitions their offense from their defense as well as Mayweather does.. I see Tito getting frustrated potshotted to death and following Floyd around the ring like a Zombie similiar to Coralles(RIP) not being able to pull the trigger and maybe even getting caught by 1 or 2 flash knockdowns to further widen the defecit on points
Great post. CC. Tito's achilles heal was talented fighters with better boxing skills. Tito often lacked the ability to come up with a plan B. Oscar gave him a boxing lesson, regardless of the shady outcome, as did Winky and Hopkins. JT hit it on the head with "walking around the right like a Zombie." I don't think he could cut off the ring on Floyd. He would be looking the big punch, he would get countered all night, and on top of it, he would get bad or useless advice from his dad in the corner.
Regardless of who is the greater alltime P4P, it's just a bad matchup for Tito. Floyd is just the type of fighter who could make Tito look bad, and when fighter had the skill set, style and ability to do so, Tito could be make to bad.
:coolclick: Tito is easily frustrated and like you mentioned would be trying to set and wait for the homerun that would never come.... Funny thing is we are talking about Tito Trinidad at 147 and in a few weeks he will fighting 170 :o
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Re: People stop saying Floyd would beat Tito
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Originally Posted by JT Rock
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Originally Posted by RozzySean
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Originally Posted by JT Rock
Tito has NEVER come close to fighting such an elusive target as Floyd, Whitaker was well past his best defensive prowess when they fought and no one transitions their offense from their defense as well as Mayweather does.. I see Tito getting frustrated potshotted to death and following Floyd around the ring like a Zombie similiar to Coralles(RIP) not being able to pull the trigger and maybe even getting caught by 1 or 2 flash knockdowns to further widen the defecit on points
Great post. CC. Tito's achilles heal was talented fighters with better boxing skills. Tito often lacked the ability to come up with a plan B. Oscar gave him a boxing lesson, regardless of the shady outcome, as did Winky and Hopkins. JT hit it on the head with "walking around the right like a Zombie." I don't think he could cut off the ring on Floyd. He would be looking the big punch, he would get countered all night, and on top of it, he would get bad or useless advice from his dad in the corner.
Regardless of who is the greater alltime P4P, it's just a bad matchup for Tito. Floyd is just the type of fighter who could make Tito look bad, and when fighter had the skill set, style and ability to do so, Tito could be make to bad.
:coolclick: Tito is easily frustrated and like you mentioned would be trying to set and wait for the homerun that would never come.... Funny thing is we are talking about Tito Trinidad at 147 and in a few weeks he will fighting 170 :o
Tito might stand a better chance against a shot Jones who leaves his glass chin hanging out than he would against Floyd. I'm praying Jones plays this one stupid, showboats, and thinks Tito can't hurt him. Jones has been known to hang a curveball once in a while. Even hitters who have lost their batspeed can hit HR's off mistake pitches :)
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Re: People stop saying Floyd would beat Tito
Forget bout it Rozzy, Roy Jones was a greater fighter than PBF will ever be. Even at 39, he'll toy with Tito, then take him outta there when he feels like it. Its a mismatch, plain and simple.
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Re: People stop saying Floyd would beat Tito
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Originally Posted by Hulk
Forget bout it Rozzy, Roy Jones was a greater fighter than PBF will ever be. Even at 39, he'll toy with Tito, then take him outta there when he feels like it. Its a mismatch, plain and simple.
Hulk it looks like Tito Vs RJJ will be your first loss in my prediction thread, go figure :laugh:
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Re: People stop saying Floyd would beat Tito
im a tito fan but mayweather would win by decision IMO
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Re: People stop saying Floyd would beat Tito
For all of you who have posted that Tito would be looking for the one big shot all night long. Have you EVER seen him fight at 147????? ::**
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Re: People stop saying Floyd would beat Tito
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Originally Posted by frozensolid_702
Tito was getting outboxed by Oscar for the majority of their fight at 154. Mayweather is a much better boxer at 147 than Oscar at 154. The biggest difference is that Mayweather brings it for 12 full rounds while getting better with each passing round, while Oscar always fades down the stretch.
Mayweather would box Tito's ears off at 147 en-route to a wide UD.
Frozen, that fight was at 147. And that was Prime Undefeated Oscar at his best. I would've loved to have seen how Mayweather could've handled that Oscar given that he could barely handle him when they fought 8 YEARS AFTER. Even then, Oscar did not dominate Tito and Tito kept it close enough to pull of the W in the end. Also, Oscar was not known for stamina issues back then. He was known for rallying at the end. see Carr and Quartey fights. It was Tito that made him fight that way, it was Tito that made him back off at the end. Give the man some credit.
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Re: People stop saying Floyd would beat Tito
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Originally Posted by Hulk
Forget bout it Rozzy, Roy Jones was a greater fighter than PBF will ever be. Even at 39, he'll toy with Tito, then take him outta there when he feels like it. Its a mismatch, plain and simple.
That's exactly what Jones better NOT try to do. That would be a huge mistake, and you can't say that Jones is a greater fighter then PBF will every be when Jones has had his ass KO'd 2x by B+ Grade fighters, and he dominated in weight classes that were fairly week at that time, as least as compared to the resume Floyd has been building. I'm not taking anything away from Jones, who I respect and consider an ATG, but on an all-time p4p, Floyd rankings ahead of him already, and mostly likely by the time his career is done, it won't even be close.
And this is coming from a guy who hates Floyd and would love to see him get KTFO.
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Re: People stop saying Floyd would beat Tito
Ironic this is posted under Rozzy's sig but:
I really dislike Mayweather but I do feel he has become a better fighter than Roy Jones Jr.
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Re: People stop saying Floyd would beat Tito
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Originally Posted by RozzySean
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Originally Posted by Hulk
Forget bout it Rozzy, Roy Jones was a greater fighter than PBF will ever be. Even at 39, he'll toy with Tito, then take him outta there when he feels like it. Its a mismatch, plain and simple.
That's exactly what Jones better NOT try to do. That would be a huge mistake, and you can't say that Jones is a greater fighter then PBF will every be when Jones has had his ass KO'd 2x by B+ Grade fighters, and he dominated in weight classes that were fairly week at that time, as least as compared to the resume Floyd has been building. I'm not taking anything away from Jones, who I respect and consider an ATG, but on an all-time p4p, Floyd rankings ahead of him already, and mostly likely by the time his career is done, it won't even be close.
And this is coming from a guy who hates Floyd and would love to see him get KTFO.
Bullshit. Who the hell has Mayweather beaten that is better than a prime James Toney? Answer me that. Gimme a fukin break.
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Re: People stop saying Floyd would beat Tito
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Originally Posted by Hulk
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Originally Posted by RozzySean
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Originally Posted by Hulk
Forget bout it Rozzy, Roy Jones was a greater fighter than PBF will ever be. Even at 39, he'll toy with Tito, then take him outta there when he feels like it. Its a mismatch, plain and simple.
That's exactly what Jones better NOT try to do. That would be a huge mistake, and you can't say that Jones is a greater fighter then PBF will every be when Jones has had his a** KO'd 2x by B+ Grade fighters, and he dominated in weight classes that were fairly week at that time, as least as compared to the resume Floyd has been building. I'm not taking anything away from Jones, who I respect and consider an ATG, but on an all-time p4p, Floyd rankings ahead of him already, and mostly likely by the time his career is done, it won't even be close.
And this is coming from a guy who hates Floyd and would love to see him get KTFO.
Bullshit. Who the hell has Mayweather beaten that is better than a prime James Toney? Answer me that. Gimme a fukin break.
Speaking of Toney, has he officially retired?
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Re: People stop saying Floyd would beat Tito
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Originally Posted by Hulk
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Originally Posted by RozzySean
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Originally Posted by Hulk
Forget bout it Rozzy, Roy Jones was a greater fighter than PBF will ever be. Even at 39, he'll toy with Tito, then take him outta there when he feels like it. Its a mismatch, plain and simple.
That's exactly what Jones better NOT try to do. That would be a huge mistake, and you can't say that Jones is a greater fighter then PBF will every be when Jones has had his a** KO'd 2x by B+ Grade fighters, and he dominated in weight classes that were fairly week at that time, as least as compared to the resume Floyd has been building. I'm not taking anything away from Jones, who I respect and consider an ATG, but on an all-time p4p, Floyd rankings ahead of him already, and mostly likely by the time his career is done, it won't even be close.
And this is coming from a guy who hates Floyd and would love to see him get KTFO.
Bullshit. Who the hell has Mayweather beaten that is better than a prime James Toney? Answer me that. Gimme a fukin break.
Oscar Delahoya (the same Oscar that spanked your boy Mayorga at 154 ;))
Is that the break that you we're looking for?? ;D
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Re: People stop saying Floyd would beat Tito
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Originally Posted by frozensolid_702
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Originally Posted by Hulk
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Originally Posted by RozzySean
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Originally Posted by Hulk
Forget bout it Rozzy, Roy Jones was a greater fighter than PBF will ever be. Even at 39, he'll toy with Tito, then take him outta there when he feels like it. Its a mismatch, plain and simple.
That's exactly what Jones better NOT try to do. That would be a huge mistake, and you can't say that Jones is a greater fighter then PBF will every be when Jones has had his a** KO'd 2x by B+ Grade fighters, and he dominated in weight classes that were fairly week at that time, as least as compared to the resume Floyd has been building. I'm not taking anything away from Jones, who I respect and consider an ATG, but on an all-time p4p, Floyd rankings ahead of him already, and mostly likely by the time his career is done, it won't even be close.
And this is coming from a guy who hates Floyd and would love to see him get KTFO.
Bullshit. Who the hell has Mayweather beaten that is better than a prime James Toney? Answer me that. Gimme a fukin break.
Oscar Delahoya (the same Oscar that spanked your boy Mayorga at 154 ;))
Is that the break that you we're looking for?? ;D
Aging Oscar at 154, who fights once a year was better than James Toney? PLEASE. Prime for Prime even, hell career to career, Toney is the superior fighter.
And no, I think Toney plans on fighting and eating some more.
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Re: People stop saying Floyd would beat Tito
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Originally Posted by Hulk
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Originally Posted by RozzySean
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Originally Posted by Hulk
Forget bout it Rozzy, Roy Jones was a greater fighter than PBF will ever be. Even at 39, he'll toy with Tito, then take him outta there when he feels like it. Its a mismatch, plain and simple.
That's exactly what Jones better NOT try to do. That would be a huge mistake, and you can't say that Jones is a greater fighter then PBF will every be when Jones has had his ass KO'd 2x by B+ Grade fighters, and he dominated in weight classes that were fairly week at that time, as least as compared to the resume Floyd has been building. I'm not taking anything away from Jones, who I respect and consider an ATG, but on an all-time p4p, Floyd rankings ahead of him already, and mostly likely by the time his career is done, it won't even be close.
And this is coming from a guy who hates Floyd and would love to see him get KTFO.
Bullshit. Who the hell has Mayweather beaten that is better than a prime James Toney? Answer me that. Gimme a fukin break.
Prime James Toney was Jone's finest hour. You can make a reasonable case that whitewashing Toney at 168 is a single greater victory than any of Mayweather's single victories, but once you get beyond Toney and a still developing Hopkins, the volumn of Mayweathers work given in the edge. Don't forget about PBF completely dominating and cleaning out 130 and 135. Been critical of Floyd in the past for the way he handled the 140lb division, but he put that to rest by beating Hatton last month.
Top Quality Floyd Mayweather wins:
Oscar, Ricky, Corrales, Castillo, Judah, Jesus Chavez, G. Hernadez, and Carlos Hernadez w/one hand.
Second Tier:
Manfredy, Corley, Baldomir
Top Jones Wins:
Toney, Hopkins (very young), Griffin, Hill, Harding, Ruiz (i guess???)
Second Tier:
McCallum (a shot version), Gonzalez, Woods.
Both resumes are impressive. The win over a prime but totally weight drained Toney stands out, especially because he thumped him so thoroughly. Even at full strength, Roy wins that one. But once you get past 1 and 2 on the list, looking at the whole list, I give Floyd the edge, and he's not done adding to it.
And I hate Floyd. I'm just being objective. Roy seems greater in some ways because he was so much fun to watch. Made guys look dumb when they tried to him and threw brilliant, flashing combos.
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Re: People stop saying Floyd would beat Tito
Rozzy I like how you just ignore Jone's victories over Thomas "Ice T" Tate, Merqui Sosa and Reggie Johnson. Those were three BAD MF's right there.
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Re: People stop saying Floyd would beat Tito
As to Floyd/ Tito I'm in Mayweather's favor. Floyd's style would give Trinidad hell all night!!!
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Re: People stop saying Floyd would beat Tito
"People stop saying Floyd would beat Tito"
Floyd WOULD beat Tito ;) by about 4 rounds
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Re: People stop saying Floyd would beat Tito
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulk
Rozzy I like how you just ignore Jone's victories over Thomas "Ice T" Tate, Merqui Sosa and Reggie Johnson. Those were three BAD MF's right there.
I'm not sure those were "bad" fighters, but the definately weren't top class. None of those three fighters every beat a top level fighter. Tate was the best of three, by far, but he was beat by Percy Harris, Julian Jackson (no shame in that, but it would have been a more impressive victory if he would have beaten Jackson). He also lost to Rocky Gannon and Silvio Branco right after the Jones fight. Sosa was decent, but he falls into tier 2.
I also left about 3 names of similar level fighters to those off Floyds list, because Gatti, Juuko, and Phillip N'Dou a bit below the other names. N'Dou was actually a pretty impressive victory, too, at least on the level of Sosa, Juuko was certainly as good than Reggie Johnson p4p.
I stand by my orginal point, but this is a Tito vs Floyd thread and we've managed to get into a debate about Roy Jones. I would say start a new thread if you want to continue, but I'm pretty much bored of this.
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Re: People stop saying Floyd would beat Tito
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulk
Rozzy I like how you just ignore Jone's victories over Thomas "Ice T" Tate, Merqui Sosa and Reggie Johnson. Those were three BAD MF's right there.
This would be like someone saying Sharmba Mitchell, Victoriano Sosa, and Chop Chop Corley were 'three BAD MF's.' Don't make me laugh. There's a name for guys like Tate, the two Sosa's, Johnson, Mitchell, and Corley:
their called tune-ups.
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Re: People stop saying Floyd would beat Tito
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Originally Posted by RozzySean
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulk
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Originally Posted by RozzySean
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Originally Posted by Hulk
Forget bout it Rozzy, Roy Jones was a greater fighter than PBF will ever be. Even at 39, he'll toy with Tito, then take him outta there when he feels like it. Its a mismatch, plain and simple.
That's exactly what Jones better NOT try to do. That would be a huge mistake, and you can't say that Jones is a greater fighter then PBF will every be when Jones has had his a** KO'd 2x by B+ Grade fighters, and he dominated in weight classes that were fairly week at that time, as least as compared to the resume Floyd has been building. I'm not taking anything away from Jones, who I respect and consider an ATG, but on an all-time p4p, Floyd rankings ahead of him already, and mostly likely by the time his career is done, it won't even be close.
And this is coming from a guy who hates Floyd and would love to see him get KTFO.
Bullshit. Who the hell has Mayweather beaten that is better than a prime James Toney? Answer me that. Gimme a fukin break.
Prime James Toney was Jone's finest hour. You can make a reasonable case that whitewashing Toney at 168 is a single greater victory than any of Mayweather's single victories, but once you get beyond Toney and a still developing Hopkins, the volumn of Mayweathers work given in the edge. Don't forget about PBF completely dominating and cleaning out 130 and 135. Been critical of Floyd in the past for the way he handled the 140lb division, but he put that to rest by beating Hatton last month.
Top Quality Floyd Mayweather wins:
Oscar, Ricky, Corrales, Castillo, Judah,  Jesus Chavez, G. Hernadez, and Carlos Hernadez w/one hand.
Second Tier:
Manfredy, Corley, Baldomir
Top Jones Wins:
Toney, Hopkins (very young), Griffin, Hill, Harding, Ruiz (i guess???)
Second Tier:
McCallum (a shot version), Gonzalez, Woods.
Both resumes are impressive. The win over a prime but totally weight drained Toney stands out, especially because he thumped him so thoroughly. Even at full strength, Roy wins that one. But once you get past 1 and 2 on the list, looking at the whole list, I give Floyd the edge, and he's not done adding to it.
And I hate Floyd. I'm just being objective. Roy seems greater in some ways because he was so much fun to watch. Made guys look dumb when they tried to him and threw brilliant, flashing combos.
Wheres Reggie Johnson who beat Steve Collins, was the first man to drop James Toney, plus all of his losses were razor thin decisions coming into Jones fight.
Thulani Malinga even deserves a mention he was never KO coming into Jones fight. Plus he went on to beat the likes of Benn and a lot of people think he should of been 2-0 with Benn instead of 1-1. He also out boxed a prime Robin Reid when he was 40+. Malinga was a tough solid fighter who went the distance with a lot of World champions.
And you also mention that Hopkins was young and inexperienced, but Roy Jones had even less fights than Hopkins.
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Re: People stop saying Floyd would beat Tito
Quote:
Originally Posted by skyler
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulk
Rozzy I like how you just ignore Jone's victories over Thomas "Ice T" Tate, Merqui Sosa and Reggie Johnson. Those were three BAD MF's right there.
This would be like someone saying Sharmba Mitchell, Victoriano Sosa, and Chop Chop Corley were 'three BAD MF's.' Don't make me laugh. There's a name for guys like Tate, the two Sosa's, Johnson, Mitchell, and Corley:
their called tune-ups.
Do you even know the history on Tate ?? shortly before Jones fight he went the distance with the hardest hitting Middleweight champion of all time Julian Jackson and gave him one of his toughest fights. Jones is the only boxer to ever KO him, Tate was a solid fighter fighter in his prime.
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Re: People stop saying Floyd would beat Tito
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rookie Fan
Quote:
Originally Posted by frozensolid_702
Tito was getting outboxed by Oscar for the majority of their fight at 154. Mayweather is a much better boxer at 147 than Oscar at 154. The biggest difference is that Mayweather brings it for 12 full rounds while getting better with each passing round, while Oscar always fades down the stretch.
Mayweather would box Tito's ears off at 147 en-route to a wide UD.
Frozen, that fight was at 147. And that was Prime Undefeated Oscar at his best. I would've loved to have seen how Mayweather could've handled that Oscar given that he could barely handle him when they fought 8 YEARS AFTER. Even then, Oscar did not dominate Tito and Tito kept it close enough to pull of the W in the end. Also, Oscar was not known for stamina issues back then. He was known for rallying at the end. see Carr and Quartey fights. It was Tito that made him fight that way, it was Tito that made him back off at the end. Give the man some credit.
Now your just being biased, Mayweather handled Oscar much easier than Tito ever did. And lets not forget Mayweather fought Oscar way above his best weight class and Mayweather is about x2 better at Super Featherweight and Lightweight. I had Mayweather winning the Oscar De La Hoya fight clearly by 3 or 4 rounds plus Oscar De La Hoya only landed 21 percent of his punches, and Mayweather landed 43 percent of his punches, where as Oscar De La Hoya landed 41 percent of his punches vs Felix Trinidad, and Tito only landed 25 percent of his punches.
If Mayweather would have fought Oscar De La Hoya at Lightweight. Mayweather would have beaten Oscar De La Hoya by near enough the same scores as he did at Light Middleweight.
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Re: People stop saying Floyd would beat Tito
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Cold Boxing
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rookie Fan
Quote:
Originally Posted by frozensolid_702
Tito was getting outboxed by Oscar for the majority of their fight at 154. Mayweather is a much better boxer at 147 than Oscar at 154. The biggest difference is that Mayweather brings it for 12 full rounds while getting better with each passing round, while Oscar always fades down the stretch.
Mayweather would box Tito's ears off at 147 en-route to a wide UD.
Frozen, that fight was at 147. And that was Prime Undefeated Oscar at his best. I would've loved to have seen how Mayweather could've handled that Oscar given that he could barely handle him when they fought 8 YEARS AFTER. Even then, Oscar did not dominate Tito and Tito kept it close enough to pull of the W in the end. Also, Oscar was not known for stamina issues back then. He was known for rallying at the end. see Carr and Quartey fights. It was Tito that made him fight that way, it was Tito that made him back off at the end. Give the man some credit.
Now your just being biased, Mayweather handled Oscar much easier than Tito ever did. And lets not forget Mayweather fought Oscar way above his best weight class and Mayweather is about x2 better at Super Featherweight and Lightweight. I had Mayweather winning the Oscar De La Hoya fight clearly by 3 or 4 rounds plus Oscar De La Hoya only landed 21 percent of his punches, and Mayweather landed 43 percent of his punches, where as Oscar De La Hoya landed 41 percent of his punches vs Felix Trinidad, and Tito only landed 25 percent of his punches.
If Mayweather would have fought Oscar De La Hoya at Lightweight. Mayweather would have beaten Oscar De La Hoya by near enough the same scores as he did at Light Middleweight.
You are putting way too much into what I said. I never meant to imply Tito handled DLH better than Mayweather did. I'm simply stating that the DLH that Tito fought was much better than the DLH Mayweather fought. It was a prime, undefeated DLH. The reason I say that is because everyone likes to point out Tito-DLH and say see if DLH did that than Mayweather could do it better. Well I don't see how we can all come to the conclusion that Mayweather now at welterweight is any better than prime DLH at welterweight. Not to mention that Mayweather is smaller and does not have the power of DLH.
And why are you talking about DLH - Mayweather at Lightweight. What does that have to do with this discussion. But now that you mention it, you should be fair about it and remember that DLH was much better at Lightweight too.
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Re: People stop saying Floyd would beat Tito
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Cold Boxing
Quote:
Originally Posted by RozzySean
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulk
Quote:
Originally Posted by RozzySean
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulk
Forget bout it Rozzy, Roy Jones was a greater fighter than PBF will ever be. Even at 39, he'll toy with Tito, then take him outta there when he feels like it. Its a mismatch, plain and simple.
That's exactly what Jones better NOT try to do. That would be a huge mistake, and you can't say that Jones is a greater fighter then PBF will every be when Jones has had his a** KO'd 2x by B+ Grade fighters, and he dominated in weight classes that were fairly week at that time, as least as compared to the resume Floyd has been building. I'm not taking anything away from Jones, who I respect and consider an ATG, but on an all-time p4p, Floyd rankings ahead of him already, and mostly likely by the time his career is done, it won't even be close.
And this is coming from a guy who hates Floyd and would love to see him get KTFO.
Bullshit. Who the hell has Mayweather beaten that is better than a prime James Toney? Answer me that. Gimme a fukin break.
Prime James Toney was Jone's finest hour. You can make a reasonable case that whitewashing Toney at 168 is a single greater victory than any of Mayweather's single victories, but once you get beyond Toney and a still developing Hopkins, the volumn of Mayweathers work given in the edge. Don't forget about PBF completely dominating and cleaning out 130 and 135. Been critical of Floyd in the past for the way he handled the 140lb division, but he put that to rest by beating Hatton last month.
Top Quality Floyd Mayweather wins:
Oscar, Ricky, Corrales, Castillo, Judah, Jesus Chavez, G. Hernadez, and Carlos Hernadez w/one hand.
Second Tier:
Manfredy, Corley, Baldomir
Top Jones Wins:
Toney, Hopkins (very young), Griffin, Hill, Harding, Ruiz (i guess???)
Second Tier:
McCallum (a shot version), Gonzalez, Woods.
Both resumes are impressive. The win over a prime but totally weight drained Toney stands out, especially because he thumped him so thoroughly. Even at full strength, Roy wins that one. But once you get past 1 and 2 on the list, looking at the whole list, I give Floyd the edge, and he's not done adding to it.
And I hate Floyd. I'm just being objective. Roy seems greater in some ways because he was so much fun to watch. Made guys look dumb when they tried to him and threw brilliant, flashing combos.
Wheres Reggie Johnson who beat Steve Collins, was the first man to drop James Toney, plus all of his losses were razor thin decisions coming into Jones fight.
Thulani Malinga even deserves a mention he was never KO coming into Jones fight. Plus he went on to beat the likes of Benn and a lot of people think he should of been 2-0 with Benn instead of 1-1. He also out boxed a prime Robin Reid when he was 40+. Malinga was a tough solid fighter who went the distance with a lot of World champions.
And you also mention that Hopkins was young and inexperienced, but Roy Jones had even less fights than Hopkins.
Good enough points, but the statement that started this whole side topic was the Jones was a greater fighter than Floyd will every be. It was probably a reactionary statement on my part to say that Floyd has eclipsed Jones already, but it's a good debate, they are comparable ATG's, and Hulk is dead wrong to think Jones is on a significantly higher level than Mayweather. We can break down the relative strength of opposition, but you can't belittle Floyds accomplishments just because you hate him.
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Re: People stop saying Floyd would beat Tito
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rookie Fan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Cold Boxing
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rookie Fan
Quote:
Originally Posted by frozensolid_702
Tito was getting outboxed by Oscar for the majority of their fight at 154. Mayweather is a much better boxer at 147 than Oscar at 154. The biggest difference is that Mayweather brings it for 12 full rounds while getting better with each passing round, while Oscar always fades down the stretch.
Mayweather would box Tito's ears off at 147 en-route to a wide UD.
Frozen, that fight was at 147. And that was Prime Undefeated Oscar at his best. I would've loved to have seen how Mayweather could've handled that Oscar given that he could barely handle him when they fought 8 YEARS AFTER. Even then, Oscar did not dominate Tito and Tito kept it close enough to pull of the W in the end. Also, Oscar was not known for stamina issues back then. He was known for rallying at the end. see Carr and Quartey fights. It was Tito that made him fight that way, it was Tito that made him back off at the end. Give the man some credit.
Now your just being biased, Mayweather handled Oscar much easier than Tito ever did. And lets not forget Mayweather fought Oscar way above his best weight class and Mayweather is about x2 better at Super Featherweight and Lightweight. I had Mayweather winning the Oscar De La Hoya fight clearly by 3 or 4 rounds plus Oscar De La Hoya only landed 21 percent of his punches, and Mayweather landed 43 percent of his punches, where as Oscar De La Hoya landed 41 percent of his punches vs Felix Trinidad, and Tito only landed 25 percent of his punches.
If Mayweather would have fought Oscar De La Hoya at Lightweight. Mayweather would have beaten Oscar De La Hoya by near enough the same scores as he did at Light Middleweight.
You are putting way too much into what I said. I never meant to imply Tito handled DLH better than Mayweather did. I'm simply stating that the DLH that Tito fought was much better than the DLH Mayweather fought. It was a prime, undefeated DLH. The reason I say that is because everyone likes to point out Tito-DLH and say see if DLH did that than Mayweather could do it better. Well I don't see how we can all come to the conclusion that Mayweather now at welterweight is any better than prime DLH at welterweight. Not to mention that Mayweather is smaller and does not have the power of DLH.
And why are you talking about DLH - Mayweather at Lightweight. What does that have to do with this discussion. But now that you mention it, you should be fair about it and remember that DLH was much better at Lightweight too.
You tried to put Mayweather down by saying he barely beat Oscar De La Hoya 8 years after the Tito fight when thats total nonsense. Mayweather handled Oscar De La Hoya superbly well considering Oscar De La Hoya was almost a stone heavier than Mayweather was, plus the fight isn't as close as it seems. If you watch the fight carefully its a clear cut victory for Mayweather by at least 3 or 4 rounds, Oscar De La Hoya flurries looked good but they were flash and they were hardly landing. Mayweather out boxed Oscar De La Hoya clearly and made him only land 21 percent of his punches which is incredible. Plus you also forget that some of Oscar De La Hoya's finest performances were at Light Middleweight, he wasn't as shot as people make out. His fights with Hopkins, Sturm, were at a weight class Oscar De La Hoya was not comfortable at and you could see by his physique that he wasn't comfortable at the weight. His performance against Mayorga was pretty good, in fact Oscar De La Hoya in his fights with Mayorga, Mayweather, that was the best Oscar De La Hoya i had seen in years.
Oscar De La Hoya was better at lighter weights as well i agree, but Mayweather was something else especially at Super Featherweight where he looked pretty much unbeatable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RozzySean
Good enough points, but the statement that started this whole side topic was the Jones was a greater fighter than Floyd will every be. It was probably a reactionary statement on my part to say that Floyd has eclipsed Jones already, but it's a good debate, they are comparable ATG's, and Hulk is dead wrong to think Jones is on a significantly higher level than Mayweather. We can break down the relative strength of opposition, but you can't belittle Floyds accomplishments just because you hate him.
Oh i agree in fact i think Mayweather technical wise is way better than Roy Jones, but i also think Jones is more naturally talented than Mayweather. Opposition/Achievement wise i would say it is pretty close.
Mayweather has won 5 world titles in 5 different weight classes, something only about 6 boxers have ever done. And Jones won the Heavyweight title something that hadn't been done since early 1900s. Both fighters have dominated mostly every opponent they have faced. And also both boxers have been criticized for facing over matched opponent's.
Mayweather's Best Wins
Ricky Hatton
Zab Judah
Genaro Hernandez
Oscar De La Hoya
Arturo Gatti
Diego Corrales
Jose Luis Castillo x2
Jesus Chavez
Angel Manfredy
Phillip N'dou
Carlos Hernandez
Goodish Wins
DeMarcus Corley
Carlos Manuel Baldomir
Sharmba Mitchell
Victoriano Sosa
World titles at Super Featherweight, Lightweight, Jr Welterweight, Welterweight, Light Middleweight.
Jones Best Wins
Mike McCallum = Old but still good.
Bernard Hopkins
James Toney
Virgil Hill
Julio Cesar Gonzalez
Eric Harding
Reggie Johnson
Montel Griffin
Vinny Pazienza
Clinton Woods
Goodish Wins
Thulani Malinga
Thomas Tate
Merqui Sosa
Lou Del Valle
World Titles at Middleweight, Super Middleweight, Light Heavyweight, Heavyweight.
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Re: People stop saying Floyd would beat Tito
Well to be fair i would give Oscar good chance at winning at lower weights against Mayweather you got to remember that oscar was very dominante at the weights as well adn i still can not believe he made weight for SFW.
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Re: People stop saying Floyd would beat Tito
Quote:
Originally Posted by RozzySean
Good enough points, but the statement that started this whole side topic was the Jones was a greater fighter than Floyd will every be. It was probably a reactionary statement on my part to say that Floyd has eclipsed Jones already, but it's a good debate, they are comparable ATG's, and Hulk is dead wrong to think Jones is on a significantly higher level than Mayweather. We can break down the relative strength of opposition, but you can't belittle Floyds accomplishments just because you hate him.
Oh i agree in fact i think Mayweather technical wise is way better than Roy Jones, but i also think Jones is more naturally talented than Mayweather. Opposition/Achievement wise i would say it is pretty close.
Mayweather has won 5 world titles in 5 different weight classes, something only about 6 boxers have ever done. And Jones won the Heavyweight title something that hadn't been done since early 1900s. Both fighters have dominated mostly every opponent they have faced. And also both boxers have been criticized for facing over matched opponent's.
Mayweather's Best Wins
Ricky Hatton
Zab Judah
Genaro Hernandez
Oscar De La Hoya
Arturo Gatti
Diego Corrales
Jose Luis Castillo x2
Jesus Chavez
Angel Manfredy
Phillip N'dou
Carlos Hernandez
Goodish Wins
DeMarcus Corley
Carlos Manuel Baldomir
Sharmba Mitchell
Victoriano Sosa
World titles at Super Featherweight, Lightweight, Jr Welterweight, Welterweight, Light Middleweight.
Jones Best Wins
Mike McCallum = Old but still good.
Bernard Hopkins
James Toney
Virgil Hill
Julio Cesar Gonzalez
Eric Harding
Reggie Johnson
Montel Griffin
Vinny Pazienza
Clinton Woods
Goodish Wins
Thulani Malinga
Thomas Tate
Merqui Sosa
Lou Del Valle
World Titles at Middleweight, Super Middleweight, Light Heavyweight, Heavyweight.
[/quote]
I agree totally with you about Roy being the more physically gift and Floyd being the more skilled. I'm not sure there has ever been a more physically gifted boxer. Floyd isn't lacking physical tools, he has plenty, but he probably the most complete and refined fighter of our lifetime.
