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Originally Posted by Lyle
WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :coolclick:
We agree on somthing.
Tyson was lucky in that his prime was at a time the HWD needed a exciting superstar and he fitted the bill.Also the late 80s lacked good HW.
If Tyson's prime was in the 90s I dont think he would not have had the same sucsess because the quality of fighter was much better.
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Originally Posted by porkypara
the 80s needed a good heavy? who was their except larry holmes who would be considered world class, shavers? i bet alot of people donmt think hes worthy of an all time gr8 position, and holmes was considered great.
with lewis their was only holyfield, i dont think tyson should be counted. and lewis only won after a draw, which was a robbery to be fair but the 2nd fight was damm close enough.
What an utter complete F****** twat! Tyson would have beat Lewis with ease in his prime and i would fight anybody to make this claim, you're right we can't prove it and turn back time, but there is no doubt in my mind whatsoever,Tyson would have spanked Lewis, it would have been a early win for Tyson, without a shadow of a doubt. F****** cock dunno what he's talking about! To say he doesn't have heart, you're kidding me, he was the youngest heavyweight champion and you can say all this rubbish about the division being filled with B fighters, had it been filled with Lewis and others, Tyson would still have cleaned them out. Makes me fucking angry really does, Tyson is not a good person true but to question his fighting ability is a crime! Had he steered clear from Don "The Manipulator" King, he would have gone down as the best heavyweight ever. FACT!
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Originally Posted by TheT-Unit
Well tough guy you would be fighting a long line of people.....The division was filled with a lot of fighters either on the way down or never were's when Tyson was in his prime....Do we want to go over his resume?....He lost to every fighter that came forward and pressed the action....Douglas,,,Holyfield...and those he did not lose to he had difficulity or could not stop them....
As for spanking Lewis...No HW in history would spank a prime Lennox Lewis...there is a difference between a win and a spanking....
Lennox long arms and the way he would get his left out would have been extra work for Tysons bob and weave...Lewis would have caught Tyson with the right coming in a fair amount of the time....Lewis straight right was harder then any of Tysons punches...Mike was a volume puncher...he never KO'd a quality fighter with one shot...his best one punch KO was over Botha..and Botha gave him all he could handle until that point....
Before you come here and start insulting the regular poster brush up on your Boxing knowledge...because on that post alone I can pick you apart all day...Cockney has more boxing knowledge in his little finger then you do in your wholr brain
You are dismissed!!!!...and can come back when you develope some manners
He was over rated in my opinion. He is not a top 5 alltime Heavy like a lot of people have him. Like I said his division was weak and thats not his fault, but its still a fact he did not prove his greatness against any other great fighter. Those guys were ranked high? Well I guess. What top 50 All time Heavyweight did Tyson beat? Holmes was too old. Spinks was a blown up light heavy who didn't even show to fight. Holyfield beat him 2x and Lewis, well we know what he did to Mike. Would've liked to see him fight Bowe. I think Bowe beats Tyson because of his great jab. Tyson looked great KOing all those guys with 3-12 records. He KOed some other good journey man fighters, but lets face it. He wasn't out there KOing any great fighters. Lewis rates higher to me and he fought better competition over all IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by Majesty
Blah blah blah, thats basically all your comment was just a long rant with no facts to support a good argument, and just ridiculous claims.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheT-Unit
Lewis and Tyson fought. Lewis KO'd him. I know, all the "in their prime" rot........
But that's what happened not what should have, could have or would have happened in the magical Tyson in his prime happy land.
Prime Tyson - the guy that dealt with Julius Francis in 2 and Lou Savereasy in 1 - would have beat any heavyweight in history.
It can't be denied.
I do see your point but we are talking about Tyson fighting Lewis 14 years past his prime, i regard the Tyson prime 1986-1988 up until the Spinks fight and maybe the Bruno fight in 1989. By your reckoning then Camacho knocking out SRL makes him a better fighter?
If it was me you were referring to I didn't say it made him a better fighter just that he won. IMO though Tyson doesn't beats Lewis ever. Always thought that even when Tyson was in his prime.
Yes it was bikersk, i stuffed up my reply. You could be right of course as i believe that Tyson's prime was not long enough, still for that short time he beat up on everybody pretty bad. It would have been a great fight in 1988. Would Lewis have survived the onslaught?Quote:
Originally Posted by bikersk
The young reckless Lewis would of been brutally KO by Tyson, Lewis was much more exciting in his younger days but he was a lot more reckless and got hit way too much. The older more cautious Lewis wins by TKO late.Quote:
Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN
Yeah that's a good point. Did people say that about Lewis before he fought Grant?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Cold Boxing
The truth in the matter is we will never know, what i was referring to was the Tyson (Prime-Time) against Lewis (prime-time) would have been a more exciting fight, Lewis beat up on an old Tyson, and he still went a long way in the fight. I don't care what you Lewis lickers say, you can state your imaginary points at me all day long, Tyson was a better heavyweight than boring Lennox Lewis ever was, Tyson would have beat him, when they were both in their primes.
So hushhh your gums....
You know what makes me laugh is that you just contradicted yourself so bad its unbelievable. You say we can state our imaginary opinions all day, but isn't that exactly what your doing with this comment ??Quote:
Originally Posted by TheT-Unit
Tyson was a better heavyweight than boring Lennox Lewis ever was, Tyson would have beat him, when they were both in their primes.
And as for being Lewis fan your incorrect, im a Holmes fan not a Lewis fan never have been never will be. And the only reason Tyson went along way in the fight was because Lewis wanted to punish Tyson for biting him on the leg and saying all this other crap about Lewis's family. You can hear Lewis say that in the documentary.
Its wrong to suggest that Tyson was all hype. He was fantastic in the '80's and did everything there was to do. Beat everyone and unified the division. Mere hype doesnt do that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Conrad
Post jail Tyson has led him to be underrated IMO...
Not that this solves the Lewis/Tyson argument one way or the other
Tyson fought in his prime a style that really needed fast legs,the legs are the first things to go
Nobody cared about Mike enough,except as a meal ticket,to try and change his way of getting in to where he needed to be
As far as hype,not even,when he still had good footspeed he was absolutely phenomenal,once that went though.................
One point many people make about Tyson that I dissagree with is this whole 'victim of circumstance' thing, referring to the demise of his abilities due to Cus' death and his personal problems. While I don't deny that his abilities did decline during that time, the way I see it is that the 'prime' Tyson was quite possibly one of the biggest 'beneficiaries' of circumstance in boxing history, being spotted from an early age by the one man that could teach him the perfect technique to compliment his powerful frame and limited reach. Under any other circumstance he would have only ever been the fighter he became post prison, since IMO he lacked the mental strength and determination of the other all time greats.
On the question of being overrated, well that is in the eye of the beholder, every fighter is overrated by their biggest fans, and Tyson in particular has a strong fanbase of people who stick their fingers in their ears and go "na, na, na, NA ,na ,na " when ever his greatrness is questioned.
Personally, based on acheivment, I actually put Tyson comfortably in the top 10 of all time based on achievement alone (despite my negative comments). While the modern system of 3/4 main belts may be confusing, when someone actually claims the lot it is fair to conclude that that guy is THE undisputed champ of that time and that they had actually cleared out the division for the time being. Compared to many other LINEAL champions before him, Tyson actually accomplished more than the likes of Patterson, Walcott, Charles, all champions before Johnson, all champions between Johnson and Louis, in that he did face and beat all top competition in his time, which doesn't actually leave that many champions left to put above him in the top 10 heavies of all time.
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Originally Posted by Bomp
CC#72 Well stated