come on guys what about Cory Spinks,Chris Byrd,Winky Wright,and Paulie Malignaggi and that bunch. :'(
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come on guys what about Cory Spinks,Chris Byrd,Winky Wright,and Paulie Malignaggi and that bunch. :'(
I thought I'd put these up since most of the time the same names get mentioned over and over....
Heres some that I feel belong up there with the best....
"P4P Forgotten Punchers"
'Chapo' Rosario
Alfonso Zamora
'Little Red' Lopez
'Pipino' Cuevas
Wladdy
Bob Fitzsimmons
Benny Bass
'Prince' Naseem
Jack Dempsey
'Puas' Olivares
'El Flaco Explosivo' Arguello
'Miracle' Saad
JCC
Gerry Cooney
'Poison' Pimentel
Aaron Pryor definately deserves mention though not top 10
I actually disagree on both counts here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry Nutkins
In relation to Duran, it must be said that in retrospect he had onme of the most amazing careers ever. I t seemed that throughout his career he not only retained his power, but actually increased it as he climbed weights.
His win over Barkley at Supermiddle was a result ofhis power as in truth, his size should really have disabled him from claiming a title at that weight.
As for Benn. Nigel was a ferocious Middleweight, but it seems to be the common consensus that he was in actuality better at Super Middleweight. Similarly to the Leonard-Hearns series many felt that the runner up in their first fight actually won the second fight despuite a draw being awarded. (I'm refering to the Eubank fights of course.) In my view Nigel at Super Middleweight was not only strengthened physically in his ability to withstand punishment, but his power was actually asdamaging as it had been at 160.
I am suprised that Lennox Lewis is not on any list?...He had tremendous KO power...32 KO's out of 42 wins....and many of those KO's were in devestating fashion..
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ISDOF8AsfHw&feature=related
....Stanley Ketchel???
He did almost KO Jack Johnson.....sucker punch it may have been but he landed it clean and hard
Nigel Benn was more of a destructive hitter at middleweight where he gained those KO's over Dewitt and Barclay. He admitted himself he had to grow into Supermiddle and became a more mature fighter. His style was more relaxed at super middle and he still had power but knew when to get the punch off better.
Re-watching Terry Norris on the section of Julian Jackson KO, against Meldrick Taylor. He was a very good boxer puncher but not in the league of Hearns at light middle.
Anybody who suggests that Duran's power increased as he moved through the divisions is deranged. Even at welterweight his power was severely diminished. Beyond that he stopped very few top level guys in the higher weights. In fact after Pipino and Moore in 83 his Ko's against meaningful opposition all but dried up.
The former lithe lightweight was replaced by a savy old lion who outsmarted younger and more powerful foes such as Barkley via decision. Even at his absolute peak when he unleashed a pugilistic masterclass against DeJesus in 78, it was once again remorseless, educated pressure rather than sheer force that settled the issue.
Duran was and never has been, at any weight, in true world class, a one punch knock out artist. As a lightweight he had very good power, but not devastating.
Duran is my favourite fighter who ever lived and quite possibly the greatest exponent ever of the noble art. But he does not fulfill the requisite criteria that the topic heading pertains to.
Without wishing to sound arrogant, but i inevitably will. Theres nobody on this forum, or any other forum for that matter who has a more intrinsic and intimate understanding of the career of Manos de piedra than myself. Thats not a boast, its just a fact.
Nigel Benn did not obliterate top world level opponents with single destructive shots. Even at middleweight he didn't, and at super middleweight he certainly did not. Once again i direct any dissenting voices to take a look at Benn's record, the empirical data is there for all to see.
Benn did not punch with anything remotely resembling the ferocity if g man or jackson. Once again look at the records, watch the footage, equate the quality of men faced with the level of destruction dishes d out and then form your conclusions. The Benn v Mcellen bout only serves to bolster my case, outcome aside, its obvious who possesses the heavier ammunition.
I enjoyed your postings ice cold and you've composed a very informed and constructive case that one cannot ignore. Its all subjective at the end of the day and thats the fun thing and ads to the quality of discourse. Apart from that maladroit cretin boozeboxer, i don't claim to know any more than the next man. Apart from Duran ;D
As for the booze fellow, very poor postings my friend. No doubt its informed by the last time i overwhelmed you in the verbal orchard an lassoed you with my lexicon. Booze, allow me to illuminate your wafer like cranium with a thousand floodlights worth of veracity and sagacity that you yourself will never know. I will clear the dark and duty corridors of you corroding mind if you only submit and repent. Alternatively I could feed your filthy innards to feasting corinthians and display your corpulent severed hands as grotesque ornate ashtrays. Your boxing knowledge is woeful proletariat and your postings betray your putrid origins.
First of all Duran scored half his ko's after leaving the lightweight division if not more he ended up with a 103 wins 70 of them by KO... he was easily of the best punchers ever. He didn't have that one punch KO, but largely George Foreman, Marciano, didn't either. How top level guys did Tyson KO with one punch besides SPinks and Holmes? To say Duran may not have been a one punch KO type guy, but in terms of the impact of his punches there are very few who could match him p4p at lightweight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry Nutkins
I select my candidates based on one punch career destructiveness. With that in mind, Duran has no place. You suggest that Duran scored half of his ko wins after leaving the lightweight division, that is erroneous, a falsehood. It is in fact one of the most poorly misguided remarks ever uttered on a boxing forum. You obviously know nothing about Duran, were the hell did you get from. ::**
In his final fight as a lightweight in 78 against DeJesus, Duran recorded his fifty second win by way of Ko. Duran retired in 2002, in the 24 years following his win against Esteban, he stopped 18 more fighters. More than half of those 18 stoppages were recorded against club fighters in the mid 90's, anonymous foes such as Mike Culbert.
So fifty two out of seventy total career ko's were recorded when Duran fought at 135 pound limit. So your comments were a little misguided to say the least Taeth.
Never denied that bro but because i done individual weight classes, it was pretty hard to choose someone at Super Middleweight. Because like i said Jackson never fought at Super Middleweight, and McClellan only fought there once in a losing effort against Benn. My other candidate was Roy Jones Jr which anyone could make an argument for, his speed generated a lot of explosive power, but overall IMO i think Benn edges Jones in the power department. But if we are talking P4P then i totally agree Jackson and McClellan for certain hit harder than Benn, i have always said Jackson is maybe the hardest hitting fighter of all time. He used to KO fighters without even trying, amazing and scary power at the same time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry Nutkins
Michael Moorer was a devestating puncher at Light Heavy
Tua , Morrison , Pryor and Tyson would be my honorable mentions.
John Mugabi & Herbie Hide must on every list.
Ron Lyle is also worthy of shout.
Wilfredo Gomez must be the hardest p4p puncher ever.
I can't believe I did not list Berrio... >:mad
Pissed off at myself I've preached about his power and now I don't even mention him... :(
26 wins, 25 ko's.... Wether you KO him or he KOs you. :)
You gotta love that.
RemovedQuote:
Originally Posted by Terry Nutkins
Can pavlik be considered on that list yet?
I mean with the destruction of miranda and JT, he definately has some pop to his punch
Posted by Terry Nutkins:
Anybody who suggests that Duran's power increased as he moved through the divisions is deranged. Even at welterweight his power was severely diminished. Beyond that he stopped very few top level guys in the higher weights. In fact after Pipino and Moore in 83 his Ko's against meaningful opposition all but dried up.
Terry you must acknowledge that for a natural lightweight to be able to stand and trade (and indeed win) with men from the Middleweight and Supermiddleweight, illustrates that the man had above average punching power?
The former lithe lightweight was replaced by a savy old lion who outsmarted younger and more powerful foes such as Barkley via decision. Even at his absolute peak when he unleashed a pugilistic masterclass against DeJesus in 78, it was once again remorseless, educated pressure rather than sheer force that settled the issue.
Terry, although I am the first to defend Duran when his skills are questioned, I never felt he was a smart fighter. He had defensive skills surely and indeed his offensive arsenal was quite exemplary, but in his fights he used little intellect. As you said he used pressure, force and aggression to wear down opponents. Again I ask you, could a man who was naturally a lightweight grind down fighters such as Barkley if he was only possessed of a Lightweights power?
Duran was and never has been, at any weight, in true world class, a one punch knock out artist. As a lightweight he had very good power, but not devastating.
From that Logic one might argue that Foreman, Tyson and Chavez were not true knockout artists as their most famed victories came from a number of punches landing in succession or following a previous knockdown.
Duran is my favourite fighter who ever lived and quite possibly the greatest exponent ever of the noble art. But he does not fulfill the requisite criteria that the topic heading pertains to.
Without wishing to sound arrogant, but i inevitably will. Theres nobody on this forum, or any other forum for that matter who has a more intrinsic and intimate understanding of the career of Manos de piedra than myself. Thats not a boast, its just a fact.
Terry, I'm not accusing you of arrogance, however I do take issue with the above. I feel you cannot posibly make that claim whilst you post so infrrequently on this website. Had you spent more time in conversation with the posters here you would have learned of the numerous Duarn fanatics that reside her. In addition I personally know of two posters here who have trained and worked with Duran, so your statement is slightly flawed already.
I admire the love you so obviously have of this fighter, but bear in mind nobody is infalliable, nor is anyone all-knowing.
Nigel Benn did not obliterate top world level opponents with single destructive shots. Even at middleweight he didn't, and at super middleweight he certainly did not. Once again i direct any dissenting voices to take a look at Benn's record, the empirical data is there for all to see.
This is related to my earlier answer, to say this casts doubt upon the knockout ability of fighters such as Tyson, Chavez and Foreman.
Going to add KetchlerQuote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMicK
Quote:
Originally Posted by boozeboxer
Removed or not I would like everyone to note that Terry is in fact a windup artist, who repeats posts that he has copied from other boxing sites. The truth of the matter is that he has no opinion of his own, unless you count his pathetic rants and depracating tone towards other members.
The truth is that Terry Nutkins has some of the most illiterate posts ever posted (a fault which he must have failed to catch while copying and pasting from other sites and makes no effort to remedy despite using them numerous times). Not only are his posts ornamented with bogus ideas and fake references, but are full of literary words tossed about with the most reckless inaccuracy.
Pasting and posting from other sites you say. What a feeble return of fire my friend. Unless you have any evidence of plagiarism then I suggest you refrain from such baseless diatribe.
Hitmandonny, I'm lost for words, almost. Every one is entitled to an opinion, and I welcome yours. But to suggest that Duran possessed little intellect as a fighter is grossly inaccurate. Duran was one of the smartest, savviest, intelligent pugilists who ever lived. His guile, ringcraft and innate ability to react to any given situation in the ring was second to none. I simply cannot comprehend how you could make such a remark.
All I can say is that your views regarding Duran's ring intellect go against those of any informed boxing fan.
With regards to power, I stated that Duran had very good power, but not devastating. You've obviously misinterpreted my postings. You ask how was Duran able to stand and trade with men from the middleweight division and win. Because he had above average punching power, well to a degree, its a prerequisite. As I stated with absolute clarity, Duran had very good punching power, lets take that to mean better than average.
But power was not the deciding factor in Durans victories over middleweights. Rather it was skill, intelligence, innate ringcraft, the experience acquired over two previous decades of combat. Duran rolled with punches like a buoy in rough seas, taking the sting out of the shots. He slipped punches on the inside, feinted and drew his opponents lead. He preserved his energy, counter punched more, relaxed on the inside and measured the distance to perfection. He displayed intellect beyond intellect, he was the possessor of attributes that can never be taught nor acquired through traditional means. And when his defences were breached, he had a cast iron chin that only betrayed him once in his entire career.
All the middleweights who Duran beat were physically stronger and hit harder than he did. If he relied on power then he would not have been able to do hat he did. The empirical data is my lance and shield, it validates my thinking. How many guys did Duran stop as a middleweight, it tells you everything you need to know. DEVASTATING punchers win by Ko not decisions. Duran was never a supermidldeweight, he fought Leonard once at the weight and years later against club fighters and bums like Pazienza. Duran never fought the top guys at SM as he was to old and to smart.
Booze, Unsubstantiated attacks are loathsome and indicative of your desperation. Ive never spoken with words other than my own and and I call you out to back up your nonsense. Whats more, trace any of my postings back to a source other than my own. If you cannot do so then politely refrain form such deplorable defamation of character.
Donny, Hope I didn't come across to strongly, but I simply cannot fathom your assessment of Roberto's ring smarts. The overwhelming consensus from boxing historians and pundits alike is that he has it in abundance. The greatest and most respected trainers in ring history, along with the greatest fighters and most erudite of boxing essayists are also in agreeance.
On that point, i think your on your own.
For now, until this weekend here is a post you aimed at Violent Demise, "Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry Nutkins
. I observe your infantile diatribe with a strange sorrow and I thank the genetic lottery that I will shadowbox on a plateau were the air is so rareified that you will never tred. Enjoy the misery of uninformed living."
What I would like to point out for now is that you suck at the English language. You do. It should come as no surpise since you repeatedly use the same bland attacking post for a variety of forums. Behind that screen-deep down-you are probably a failed writer or a poor teacher who should have all the tools but didn't live up to the hype. Lesson 1: Using words repeatedly like diatribe, cornucopian, etc. Whenever you make simple grammatical mistakes such as confusing 'your' and 'you're' makes you look much more foolish than anyone else here who claims no such 'grasp' as you have....
The Hatton site is down. That is why you are here I am sure. I do not have the time to look through your rubbish to find the root of your unoriginality. But I am not retracting my comment. I find your posts as and your knowledge of boxing, although described with imagery that many on this site wouldn't bother to put in posts, to be impractical and inaccurate.
Terry, I am not attempting to tell all the other members of the site that I am smarter than them (as you have been doing by implication). I know that there are loads of more educated posters that have spent lives at the gym......some have been to countless fights and met all my idols personally (Cutmemick). That is why I enjoy this place.
The real question I have to ask you is this: Why are you here? Certainly you never retract a statement. Never give another poster his due when he makes a valid point. If you know so fucking much why bother with coming to this site? Is it to illuminate us with your flowerly talk? Well maybe F. Scott Fitzgerald has a forum you would be better suited at.
shavers was a connon puncher
marciano was heavy handed to
tyson
hearns
jackson
g-man
theres so many its a punchers dream
.
Hitmandonny, I'm lost for words, almost. Every one is entitled to an opinion, and I welcome yours. But to suggest that Duran possessed little intellect as a fighter is grossly inaccurate. Duran was one of the smartest, savviest, intelligent pugilists who ever lived. His guile, ringcraft and innate ability to react to any given situation in the ring was second to none. I simply cannot comprehend how you could make such a remark.
Terry, If you re-read my wording, I never implied that Duran was a fighter without intellect, I did however, suggest that his major wins were triumphs of physicality rather than mentality. Ironically you backed this point later in your original post stating that Duran's "remorseless educted pressure" beat DeJesus. A fighter can be educated but that does not mean he fights with intellect.
All I can say is that your views regarding Duran's ring intellect go against those of any informed boxing fan.
With regards to power, I stated that Duran had very good power, but not devastating. You've obviously misinterpreted my postings. You ask how was Duran able to stand and trade with men from the middleweight division and win. Because he had above average punching power, well to a degree, its a prerequisite. As I stated with absolute clarity, Duran had very good punching power, lets take that to mean better than average.
So as you are replying io this section to my question in relation to Duran as a Middle and Super Middleweight, you are confirming that Duran had "above average power" fopr a Super Middleweight and Middleweight?"
Would this not imply he had quite extraordinary power for a lightweight or that he grew in power as he moved up?
But power was not the deciding factor in Durans victories over middleweights. Rather it was skill, intelligence, innate ringcraft, the experience acquired over two previous decades of combat. Duran rolled with punches like a buoy in rough seas, taking the sting out of the shots. He slipped punches on the inside, feinted and drew his opponents lead. He preserved his energy, counter punched more, relaxed on the inside and measured the distance to perfection. He displayed intellect beyond intellect, he was the possessor of attributes that can never be taught nor acquired through traditional means. And when his defences were breached, he had a cast iron chin that only betrayed him once in his entire career.
I agree, Durans is greatly underrated in terms of defensive ability. In one of my favourite Duran fights (versus Buchanan) Roberto was quite marvelous. He was an inspiration as, without taking a step back, he evaded all of Ke's tell8ng blows and landed a high percentage of his own hostile lashings.
Well I'm gonna settle this argument right here.
First off, I said from the beginning that I was not so much interested in raw one punch powere but more on fighters who knew how to put their punches together to maximum effect and had that killer instinct to take a guy out once he was down.
Duran certanly fits that description.
So do guys like Ali even though they do not posses that one punch KO power. I'm talking about guys who knew what to do with those two hands they had. Guys who had that instinct to know when to through what punch.
I am not impressid with one punch power. It takes the skill away from the game. I like guys who work on their entire offensive arsenal and on putting it all together.
The title is P4P best PUNCHERS not P4P hardest hitters.
In that case Rookie, you're probably a fan of:
Pavlik
McClellan
Leonard
Duran
Chavez
Jones Jr
?
Terry Nutkins is a fwockin troll.
"look at me, i can use a bunch of big words i bought for 50 cents:teacher: and place them in sentences where they don't belong" im not from the U.K but i'll take a page from my U.K brothers lingo and call you a fwockin twat...
Chode burger
:lol:
Terry really does create a unique atmosphere around Saddo's.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rookie Fan
Yup, Though I have not seen as much as I would like of McClellan.Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonny
The only exception might be Jones Jr. (WAIT don'l lower my rep I got a reason) because he lacks that killer instinct in the ring on most of his fights. I know he has his reasons and I applaud them but it makes for way too many dull moments in his fights.
McClellan was actually terrifying in his pomp, footage is hard come by, but well worth the purchase if you can find it!
As for RJJ. I really like him now, looking back on his career, but like Nas I hated him while he was in his prime. (The difference being I still dislike Nas)
Thats a breath of freash air Rookie.Alot Is made out of stretching guys with one shot but In reality Its the Volume mid range punchers that can seemingly "TKO" a guy multiple times in a fight.That may sound odd but If you go through 10 rounds getting clipped and taking 8 counts as opposed to a sudden quick conclusion inside of 1 or 2 rounds?? Chavez as stated before comes to mind right first,consimate versatile puncher who broke minds as well as bodies........Hopkins also Imo :D Hit o' rep to ya Rookiefan.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rookie Fan
did anybody say corry spinks or chris bryd
:twak:Quote:
Originally Posted by The Boxer