The heavyweight division needs excitement

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Originally Posted by Lyle

...listen sport...I put those guys on there because I think it would be "exciting" for someone who actually has some skill to KO them OR that the fans might get lucky and get to see a brawl.

As for talent, Odlanier Solis is very talented, Cris Arreola is talented, Povetkin, Dimitrenko....those guys are good fighters and if you don't care about good fighters then may I suggest you mozy on down to the "Tuff Man" competitions and leave boxing for those who understand the sport.

Not everyone is a great fighter and not every fight is an exciting matchup, if you can't understand that then maybe boxing isn't for you.

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If they're not great fighters, why are they getting paid to fight?

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Originally Posted by aburwell89

I'll just leave it at this: For all of you guys sitting there shaking your head at what I'm saying, just watch. Keep your eyes open in the future, because I promise you: Someone is going to come in the near future and take every single one of those unathletic oafs to school, because I'm telling you, the days of these big chumps running things in the heavyweight division are coming to an end.

And just to make this clear: I am not predicting the coming of some buffed up Mighty Mouse that's going to knock them all out, but sooner rather than later a REAL champion will emerge from the pack of chumps currently known as the heavyweight division, and he sure as hell won't be some 8 foot 400 pound ogre.

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Well I think Wladimir is pretty much a "real champ" ...it's not his fault Sultan fought the way he did....but hey who can blame him, not too many people like getting hit in the face

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Originally Posted by Lyle

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Originally Posted by aburwell89

I'll just leave it at this: For all of you guys sitting there shaking your head at what I'm saying, just watch. Keep your eyes open in the future, because I promise you: Someone is going to come in the near future and take every single one of those unathletic oafs to school, because I'm telling you, the days of these big chumps running things in the heavyweight division are coming to an end.

And just to make this clear: I am not predicting the coming of some buffed up Mighty Mouse that's going to knock them all out, but sooner rather than later a REAL champion will emerge from the pack of chumps currently known as the heavyweight division, and he sure as hell won't be some 8 foot 400 pound ogre.

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Well I think Wladimir is pretty much a "real champ" ...it's not his fault Sultan fought the way he did....but hey who can blame him, not too many people like getting hit in the face

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The heavyweight division hasn't had anything resembling a champion since Lennox hung up his gloves.

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Originally Posted by aburwell89

If they're not great fighters, why are they getting paid to fight?

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When I say GREAT I mean GREAT....like Louis, Ali, Foreman, Marciano, etc.

Not everyone is like that. And not everyone is Mike Tyson and not everyone is Ike Ibeabuchi or David Tua or Earnie Shavers.


They get paid to fight because they are good at fighting or the person they are fighting is good at fighting or simply because there is a market for it.

Not all of them are ONLY professional fighters either, most of them keep their regular jobs and fight on the side.

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Originally Posted by aburwell89

The heavyweight division hasn't had anything resembling a champion since Lennox hung up his gloves.

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And you didn't even like him......so why are you still here?

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Originally Posted by Lyle

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Originally Posted by aburwell89

The heavyweight division hasn't had anything resembling a champion since Lennox hung up his gloves.

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And you didn't even like him......so why are you still here?

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Just because I said the guy wasn't international superstar material doesn't mean I didn't enjoy watching his fights and didn't think he was a great fighter. You're confusing my criticisms in regards to mass appeal to my enjoyment of his fights, they're two different things.

You are awfully generous with your criticisms


You said Lennox Lewis was a boring fighter and now you're saying you enjoyed watching his fights....so if you enjoy boring fighters then what's the big deal? There are plenty of those to go 'round.


As for "mass appeal" do you want it to be more like American Idol or something??? Oh maybe we can do the whole UFC thing where it's all sponsors and marketing and no talent at all.

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Originally Posted by Lyle

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Originally Posted by aburwell89

If they're not great fighters, why are they getting paid to fight?

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When I say GREAT I mean GREAT....like Louis, Ali, Foreman, Marciano, etc.

Not everyone is like that. And not everyone is Mike Tyson and not everyone is Ike Ibeabuchi or David Tua or Earnie Shavers.


They get paid to fight because they are good at fighting or the person they are fighting is good at fighting or simply because there is a market for it.

Not all of them are ONLY professional fighters either, most of them keep their regular jobs and fight on the side.

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You're really failing to see my point on this whole thing, so I'll put it as plainly as I possibly can:

No one wants to see guys like Wladimir, at least not anyone that isn't into boxing. I guarantee if I were to step out on the street right now and ask people who he is, very, very few people would have the slightest idea. That is bad for boxing in reference to the mainstream. Horrible, in fact, because it stunts the development of the sport.

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Originally Posted by Lyle

You seem to be awfully generous with your criticisms


You said Lennox Lewis was a boring fighter and now you're saying you enjoyed watching his fights....so if you enjoy boring fighters then what's the big deal? There are plenty of those to go 'round.


As for "mass appeal" do you want it to be more like American Idol or something??? Oh maybe we can do the whole UFC thing where it's all sponsors and marketing and no talent at all.

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1.) You wanna throw a quote of mine out there that says that chief? Because you're going to be looking for awhile.

2.) You're fucking stupid if you don't think mass appeal matters. That's all I'm going to say. More money + More appeal = More people getting interested = Bigger talent pool. It's a simply equation, and you should make yourself familiar with it, and before you try and counter that logic, I'll counter you: Look at how many professional basketball players are coming from outside the U.S. now by comparison to 20 years ago. Why? Exposure and money.

Oh, and one more thing, don't insult me by even mentioning me in the same sentence with " UFC " or " MMA ".

In reply to a post I made about Lennox Lewis

"Fighting smart may be good for their health, but it isn't good for the sport. No one wants to watch two oafs paw each other round after round before the judges decide who did the better pawing."


I think boxing is doing ok...it's never going to be as popular as it used to be in the 1920's to 1960's...hell even in the 1980's boxing's appeal was losing ground to the NBA, MLB, and NFL.

Sure if there were bigger fights or better fights then that would be great but a fighter's job is to WIN...marketing and mass appeal comes in a distant second.

The UFC and MMA have done major marketing campaigns and look at it....it's a crap product but no one cares to mention anything about it because of the "mass appeal" and "exposure"

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Originally Posted by Lyle

In reply to a post I made about Lennox Lewis

"Fighting smart may be good for their health, but it isn't good for the sport. No one wants to watch two oafs paw each other round after round before the judges decide who did the better pawing."


I think boxing is doing ok...it's never going to be as popular as it used to be in the 1920's to 1960's...hell even in the 1980's boxing's appeal was losing ground to the NBA, MLB, and NFL.

Sure if there were bigger fights or better fights then that would be great but a fighter's job is to WIN...marketing and mass appeal comes in a distant second.

The UFC and MMA have done major marketing campaigns and look at it....it's a crap product but no one cares to mention anything about it because of the "mass appeal" and "exposure"

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I'd like to clarify that no part of that was directed at Lennox and I avoided saying anything about the video for that very reason. You'd have to be a fucking tool to call Lennox an oaf.

As for a fighters job being to win, you're right, they are supposed to win, but they're also entertainers as ALL professional sportsmen and athletes are. If every football game consisted of both teams running the same running play up the middle every down of every quarter of every game, guess what? I wouldn't watch football and neither would too many other people, regardless of what the teams' justification for doing so was.

And about MMA, though God only knows why I'm even talking about it, it's a joke. It's a side show. Hell, I'll take it a step further and say it's barely a step above professional wrestling.

I can understand your view of boring fights and MMA and I agree but my message to you is that I don't want boxing to become all style and no substance like the UFC.

I want people to like boxing because boxing is a good sport to like and not because of marketing. Boxing took itself off of regular television, boxing placed itself in a position where it's harder to sell the sport to people. Boxing used to be on NBC and big time fights too.

Promoters and alphabet title organizations are keeping the big fights from happening and the public from seeing them for minimal prices.


The key to making boxing better is a league and a pension plan for retired fighters...therefore it makes being a boxer a better looking career choice and so people who might have played other sports start boxing and it grows like that...grassroots movement and better tv deals.

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Originally Posted by Lyle

I can understand your view of boring fights and MMA and I agree but my message to you is that I don't want boxing to become all style and no substance like the UFC.

I want people to like boxing because boxing is a good sport to like and not because of marketing. Boxing took itself off of regular television, boxing placed itself in a position where it's harder to sell the sport to people. Boxing used to be on NBC and big time fights too.

Promoters and alphabet title organizations are keeping the big fights from happening and the public from seeing them for minimal prices.


The key to making boxing better is a league and a pension plan for retired fighters...therefore it makes being a boxer a better looking career choice and so people who might have played other sports start boxing and it grows like that...grassroots movement and better tv deals.

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I completely agree with you. My only thing is: Why does it have to be all style or all substance? There was a day where there was a nice mix of both, and I don't see any reason why it can't happen again if deals are made to make it happen.

For instance, if they start broadcasting good fights on the big networks or shit, even cable again, it's definitely possible. The only problem with that though is the money standpoint. Promoters and fighters both would much rather take the multi-million dollar PPV pay day than help the sport.