Most complete fighter who gets all the ticks?

Unfortunately he died too young but one of our nations greatest would have made it to this list i'm sure. He died in a truck accident near where i live. I only mention it because i've been doing a bit of reading about the old glory days of fighting in this country (Australia) and Dave Sands (Born David Ritchie) is always mentioned by reputable historians as one of the best they ever saw. [IMG]file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/Steven/Desktop/nla.pic-vn3060828-v.jpg[/IMG] Digital Collections - Pictures - Dave Sands (left), 11 st. 7 3/4 lbs. v. Henry Brimm, 11 st. 5 1/2 lbs., at Rushcutter's Bay Stadium, 8 August 1950 [picture]
Here he is in action.

Heres some info on him. Dave Sands - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Les Darcy, is in a lot of peoples top five Middles of all time he died young

Interesting stuff about SRR Donny, but whatever flaws he may have had, he did o.k ;D IMO his defeats at Middle weren't anything to do with his 'flaws' they were more to do with the fact that he had already had about 100 fights (more than most 95% of fighters would have in their whole career) before he moved to Middle.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BIG H

Interesting stuff about SRR Donny, but whatever flaws he may have had, he did o.k ;D IMO his defeats at Middle weren't anything to do with his 'flaws' they were more to do with the fact that he had already had about 100 fights (more than most 95% of fighters would have in their whole career) before he moved to Middle.

---

Well factor in that he fought some very good fighters also.

People are going to try pulling me to bits over this but I think before moving back down from Heavyweight Roy Jones ticked all these boxes including chin. I think that the knockouts he suffered were due to him draining his body so badly he was going into these fights at only around 60% of his true potential and he was extremely weak. He fought some very good fighters earlier in his career such as Toney, Hopkins, Virgil Hill and Mike McCallum and these caught him with better shots than the ones that Tarver and Johnson caught him with and they didnt even rock him. I think the only other thing on the list that people may argue is the heart of Jones because he was never in any tear up wars where he had to come from behind but that wasn't his fault he was just too good for his own good!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rjj tszyu

People are going to try pulling me to bits over this but I think before moving back down from Heavyweight Roy Jones ticked all these boxes including chin. I think that the knockouts he suffered were due to him draining his body so badly he was going into these fights at only around 60% of his true potential and he was extremely weak. He fought some very good fighters earlier in his career such as Toney, Hopkins, Virgil Hill and Mike McCallum and these caught him with better shots than the ones that Tarver and Johnson caught him with and they didnt even rock him. I think the only other thing on the list that people may argue is the heart of Jones because he was never in any tear up wars where he had to come from behind but that wasn't his fault he was just too good for his own good!

---

Im big fan of Roy Jones Jr but Toney, Hopkins, Hill, McCallum, never landed any big shots on Jones's chin. Toney was kept on the outside all night and never landed a telling blow, Hopkins landed few decent right hands here and there but not many. Hill landed a good shot on Jones when ?? McCallum mostly landed to the body i don't remember him landing any good shots on Jones's chin. Im not saying Jones didn't have a better chin before draining himself, but IMO even though all those fighters you mentioned are great fighters none of them ever landed a good shot on Jones, but i think that just shows how good Jones was in his prime that even great fighter's coundn't touch him.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ICB

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rjj tszyu

People are going to try pulling me to bits over this but I think before moving back down from Heavyweight Roy Jones ticked all these boxes including chin. I think that the knockouts he suffered were due to him draining his body so badly he was going into these fights at only around 60% of his true potential and he was extremely weak. He fought some very good fighters earlier in his career such as Toney, Hopkins, Virgil Hill and Mike McCallum and these caught him with better shots than the ones that Tarver and Johnson caught him with and they didnt even rock him. I think the only other thing on the list that people may argue is the heart of Jones because he was never in any tear up wars where he had to come from behind but that wasn't his fault he was just too good for his own good!

---

Im big fan of Roy Jones Jr but Toney, Hopkins, Hill, McCallum, never landed any big shots on Jones's chin. Toney was kept on the outside all night and never landed a telling blow, Hopkins landed few decent right hands here and there but not many. Hill landed a good shot on Jones when ?? McCallum mostly landed to the body i don't remember him landing any good shots on Jones's chin. Im not saying Jones didn't have a better chin before draining himself, but IMO even though all those fighters you mentioned are great fighters none of them ever landed a good shot on Jones, but i think that just shows how good Jones was in his prime that even great fighter's coundn't touch him.

---

I'm not saying that they gave him serious knockout blows but they all caught him as cleanly if not cleaner than the shots that finished him against Tarver and Johnson. Also the knockdown against Lou del Valle he suffered was a shot that was much cleaner than them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rjj tszyu

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ICB

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rjj tszyu

People are going to try pulling me to bits over this but I think before moving back down from Heavyweight Roy Jones ticked all these boxes including chin. I think that the knockouts he suffered were due to him draining his body so badly he was going into these fights at only around 60% of his true potential and he was extremely weak. He fought some very good fighters earlier in his career such as Toney, Hopkins, Virgil Hill and Mike McCallum and these caught him with better shots than the ones that Tarver and Johnson caught him with and they didnt even rock him. I think the only other thing on the list that people may argue is the heart of Jones because he was never in any tear up wars where he had to come from behind but that wasn't his fault he was just too good for his own good!

---

Im big fan of Roy Jones Jr but Toney, Hopkins, Hill, McCallum, never landed any big shots on Jones's chin. Toney was kept on the outside all night and never landed a telling blow, Hopkins landed few decent right hands here and there but not many. Hill landed a good shot on Jones when ?? McCallum mostly landed to the body i don't remember him landing any good shots on Jones's chin. Im not saying Jones didn't have a better chin before draining himself, but IMO even though all those fighters you mentioned are great fighters none of them ever landed a good shot on Jones, but i think that just shows how good Jones was in his prime that even great fighter's coundn't touch him.

---

I'm not saying that they gave him serious knockout blows but they all caught him as cleanly if not cleaner than the shots that finished him against Tarver and Johnson. Also the knockdown against Lou del Valle he suffered was a shot that was much cleaner than them.

---

I thought the Tarver punch was a great punch personally, probably the best clean shot RJJ took in his entire career, as for Glen Johnson i didn't think he hit Jones that hard personally, but watch how hard Jones's head hits the canvas that alone would have seriously hurt him no joke. I thought Jones slipped on a wetspot against Lou Del Valle, Del Valle just pushed a punch at Jones and it caught him off balance and because Jones was on a wetspot at the time didn't help either.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ICB

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rjj tszyu

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ICB

Im big fan of Roy Jones Jr but Toney, Hopkins, Hill, McCallum, never landed any big shots on Jones's chin. Toney was kept on the outside all night and never landed a telling blow, Hopkins landed few decent right hands here and there but not many. Hill landed a good shot on Jones when ?? McCallum mostly landed to the body i don't remember him landing any good shots on Jones's chin. Im not saying Jones didn't have a better chin before draining himself, but IMO even though all those fighters you mentioned are great fighters none of them ever landed a good shot on Jones, but i think that just shows how good Jones was in his prime that even great fighter's coundn't touch him.

---

I'm not saying that they gave him serious knockout blows but they all caught him as cleanly if not cleaner than the shots that finished him against Tarver and Johnson. Also the knockdown against Lou del Valle he suffered was a shot that was much cleaner than them.

---

I thought the Tarver punch was a great punch personally, probably the best clean shot RJJ took in his entire career, as for Glen Johnson i didn't think he hit Jones that hard personally, but watch how hard Jones's head hits the canvas that alone would have seriously hurt him no joke. I thought Jones slipped on a wetspot against Lou Del Valle, Del Valle just pushed a punch at Jones and it caught him off balance and because Jones was on a wetspot at the time didn't help either.

---

I know what your saying but I think that it was because he caught him clean and he had a slight delayed reaction and then lost his footing more because of the punch than any wet spot. Jones' balance in them days was imense I dont think a wet spot would have taken him off his feet like that. Also I can see what your saying about the Johnson punch he did hit his head hard on the canvas but even still there is no way that would have knocked jones out earlier in his career or now he has readjusted his body to a lightheavy again.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ICB

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rjj tszyu

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ICB

Im big fan of Roy Jones Jr but Toney, Hopkins, Hill, McCallum, never landed any big shots on Jones's chin. Toney was kept on the outside all night and never landed a telling blow, Hopkins landed few decent right hands here and there but not many. Hill landed a good shot on Jones when ?? McCallum mostly landed to the body i don't remember him landing any good shots on Jones's chin. Im not saying Jones didn't have a better chin before draining himself, but IMO even though all those fighters you mentioned are great fighters none of them ever landed a good shot on Jones, but i think that just shows how good Jones was in his prime that even great fighter's coundn't touch him.

---

I'm not saying that they gave him serious knockout blows but they all caught him as cleanly if not cleaner than the shots that finished him against Tarver and Johnson. Also the knockdown against Lou del Valle he suffered was a shot that was much cleaner than them.

---

I thought the Tarver punch was a great punch personally, probably the best clean shot RJJ took in his entire career, as for Glen Johnson i didn't think he hit Jones that hard personally, but watch how hard Jones's head hits the canvas that alone would have seriously hurt him no joke. I thought Jones slipped on a wetspot against Lou Del Valle, Del Valle just pushed a punch at Jones and it caught him off balance and because Jones was on a wetspot at the time didn't help either.

---

I have to reply, Jones was a great fighter he had all the skills but for vast parts of his career he did not fight the best. Not knocking him Calzaghe and Hopkins did the same, but the punches that starched him did not look solid at all that left hook from tarver would have bounced off say Hopkins or Calzaghe.

Jones is a better fighter than both of those guys and will be rememberd so but i do question his career choices.

Hopkins,Holyfield,R. Lopez,Robinson, complete Packages!

147 Donald Curry.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Violent Demise

147 Donald Curry.

---

Curry was an amazing counter puncher i think he could have been ATG if he had a better chin, i just watched how he was schooling McCallum a few days ago until McCallum's fatal left hook. But what about Curry's left hook on McCrory that floored him ?? that was the quickest left hook i've ever seen, even RJJ himself would of been proud of that left hook.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Violent Demise

147 Donald Curry.

---

Till Ragamuffin man smoked his boots ;)

Joking aside Curry was p4p no 1 even ahead of Hagler and should've gone down as an ATG

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BIG H

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Violent Demise

147 Donald Curry.

---

Till Ragamuffin man smoked his boots ;)

Joking aside Curry was p4p no 1 even ahead of Hagler and should've gone down as an ATG

---

He was an outstanding Amateur as well i think he had a record of 400-4 or something crazy like that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bikersk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CutMeMick

I've often said 2 of the most complete fighters that my eyes have ever seen are:
Alexis Arguello
Ricardo Lopez

I would also include:
SRR
PBF
Duran

---

I was waiting for this one from you cutmemick as i was reading through the thread. Hard to argue against.

---

bikersk not sure how much Alexis & Ricardo you have seen but as I've said those 2 for ME are the epitimy what a well rounded boxer should be. Those 2 new the sport inside out those were always 1 step ahead of you rarely wasted any punches and everytime a right hand was thrown it was with precise location and amazing power behind it. Time and time again they showed great ring generalship using the entire ring, jabs, hooks, body shots, straight rights I mean they had it all.

I would have to have SRl and Evandar Holyfield up there

Wille Pep is mentioned, He should be studied closer by modern fighters. Some of the stuff he got away with utilizing both hands square shouldered while passing through in front of people or going around their arm via great footwork to attack two arms against only one due to arm execution on exact positioning should be a study point.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BIG H

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Violent Demise

147 Donald Curry.

---

Till Ragamuffin man smoked his boots ;)

Joking aside Curry was p4p no 1 even ahead of Hagler and should've gone down as an ATG

---

Curry poor handlers are more to blame. Any decent welterweight would of beaten Curry that night. He was a walking dead man. Lloyd just happen to be there at the right time

Roberto Duran...he was a great great boxer...he did have one situation where he did quit but other than that he had great heart and all the other stuff too

Benny Leonard, Gene Tunney, Joe Louis and Hank Armstrong deserve some mentions too

I often wonder why Ezzard Charles never gets mentioned, He was the complete Package winning the Heavy title while still a Lightheavy. forget Walcott and Marciano by then MS had set in. To me He was in the top Five ever.

Walcott was mighty good as well....flashy footwork

Yes but before the desease Ezzard beat him three times.

Scrap,
Great call on Ezzard I def. agree with that one.

Lyle,
"Homicide" Amrstrong is another great call and one I would agree with it.

Armsrong was past his best when he fought Robinson the first time and many thought he was robbed also having SRR down for 9.

I like watching Ike Williams at Lightweight he was a great fighter.

Archie Moore at Lightheavy in the 40s was a beast also.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Scrap

Armsrong was past his best when he fought Robinson the first time and many thought he was robbed also having SRR down for 9.

---

Henry Armstrong dropped Sugar Ray Robinson ?? i didn't know that i thought Robinson carried Armstrong, as for Ezzard Charles i haven't seen enough of him to make an real judgment but he looked like a terrific fighter, anyone who beats Archie Moore x5, and is the only man to go 15 rounds with Rocky Marciano must be pretty special. He also beat the great Charles Burley x2 i heard they were close decisions though but i would love to see more of Ezzard Charles and Charley Burley. One last comment on Armstrong i have seen few fights of his and he reminded me of Aaron Pryor the same sort of swarming style.

I never heard anything about Armstrong dropping Robinson and deserving the W.

Most accounts have Robinson beating an old Henry handily and carrying him the full distance.

Sorry dont no what I was thinking I was thinking Gavilan Fucked that up its been a hard week ;D

Kid Gavilain is another one that deserves a mention

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lyle

Kid Gavilain is another one that deserves a mention

---

I don't know about that....I mean it's true that fighters back in the days usually had lower KO percentages, but still, Gavilian scored KOs in only about a quarter of his victories. I've only seen a few of his fights, but that suggests that he tended to lack power.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thread Stealer

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lyle

Kid Gavilain is another one that deserves a mention

---

I don't know about that....I mean it's true that fighters back in the days usually had lower KO percentages, but still, Gavilian scored KOs in only about a quarter of his victories. I've only seen a few of his fights, but that suggests that he tended to lack power.

---

Good analysis, but I feel it can be counteracted when one coinsiders the refereeing.

TKO's were rare back then, so his stoppages were genuine knockouts.

Actually the most complete fighter in the world that gets all the ticks is Anderson Silva UFC Middleweight Champion... The guy is a perfect predator

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JT Rock

Actually the most complete fighter in the world that gets all the ticks is Anderson Silva UFC Middleweight Champion... The guy is a perfect predator

---

There are some knockouts on Youtube that suggest otherwise:p

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hitmandonny

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JT Rock

Actually the most complete fighter in the world that gets all the ticks is Anderson Silva UFC Middleweight Champion... The guy is a perfect predator

---

There are some knockouts on Youtube that suggest otherwise:p

---

Can you name a better pfp fighter in the world better than him right now, that is prolific in all ranges of combat?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JT Rock

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hitmandonny

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JT Rock

Actually the most complete fighter in the world that gets all the ticks is Anderson Silva UFC Middleweight Champion... The guy is a perfect predator

---

There are some knockouts on Youtube that suggest otherwise:p

---

Can you name a better pfp fighter in the world better than him right now, that is prolific in all ranges of combat?

---

As regards being well rounded in all aspects of mma, there are probably not many that could compare.

However I rate GSP right up there with Anderson, because of his freakish athleticism.

When Sherk was at his best as much as I begrudged him I thought he was really great. Should have known he was juicing.