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As great as Marquez is, he ain't beating CasamayorQuote:
Originally Posted by amat
This is true, with those 4 wins he would undoubtedly be remembered as one of the greatest of the generaton but sadly not sure that is going to be the case especially if he loses a cashout bout to Marquez.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise
Golota: 2 times DQ'd vs Bowe, Destroyed by Lewis, Tyson, and Brewster, was given a draw with Chris Byrd and a decision loss vs Ruiz both guys I thought he beat.
....but then again he's Polish and kind of made his own bed with the losses to Bowe, Tyson, and Brewster....he never was going to beat Lewis
Ajose is one of the most talented guys around, he has never had a break, make my words as soon as he does everyone will know his name, he has got all the tools to win a world title, hopefully the chance comes before age catches up with himQuote:
Originally Posted by leftylee
I really don't see it with Ajose. I've only seen his fight with Bradley Pryce but man, I thought Calzaghe slapped a lot. Very sloppy and very slappy.
like some one else posted befor i also think that Ike Quartey is a unlucky fighter. I like Ike but he is unlucky with those important desicions in the ring. Am glad to hear he is doing more than good for himself outside of the ring.
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Originally Posted by CutMeMickWhenever your ready hattonthehammer.... :)
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Originally Posted by CutMeMickSometimes I wonder when I read your posts how much boxing you've actually seen and how much you currently see.Quote:
Originally Posted by hattonthehammer
You mean to tell me that you think that both JMM & Rafa are NOT 2 of the greatest fighters of this generation?
The 1st brother duo to be Top 10 P4P and the..... You know what?
Before I waste any time and text here. I'd would really like to read you supporting facts to this and why you feel that neither guy is a great fighter. Whenever your ready I'm all :ears:
Heres both guys records so you don't have to go to BoxRec and look them up. Let me know if you need to see any one of their fights and I'll gladly up load them for you. ;)
JMM: Juan Manuel Marquez
Rafa: Rafael Marquez
God this obsession with me really has got to stop mick :gay5:
The 2 most memorable contests for either man was izzy for rafa and manny for juan manuel.
Both men came on the end of narrow defeats which could of potentially elevated them to the top of the sport. Both had somewhat controversial decisions mixed in there.
Im not saying either isnt a world class fighter. Just that they both came very close to acheiving the greatness now reserved for manny and vazquez.
PS:I do apologise over the fact i dont spend every waking moment on here like yourself. If you are that eager to call me on something just send me a PM, thanks ;D;D;D
I think Ike Quartey has to be up there.
I would consider that a lack of ability, rather than bad luck.Quote:
Originally Posted by southakron314
Glen Johnson.
no need for explanation.
There's nothing unlucky about Glen Johnson.
He's just not good enough to convincingly beat anyone decent.
No obsession here just 'exposing' and seperating the knowledgeable posters to the ones that type stuff up without having any supporting facts. Afterall this is a site to debate and discuss. I post often so anytime you feel I made a post with something you don't agree on it's there for the taking and you can quote me and ask me to support my comments.Quote:
Originally Posted by hattonthehammer
Rafas 1-2 vs. Izzy. I was ringside for 2 of the 3 fights the 3rd one was razor thin and could have gone either way. Many people had Rafa wining. Long before Rafa met Izzy, Rafa was already in the top 10 P4P rankings so when he beat Izzy he jumped on higher. So you see Rafa was P4P, prior to Izzy he didn't need Izzy to be recognized as one of the best. The Izzy win was icing on the cake for his career.Quote:
Originally Posted by hattonthehammer
Think about the last fight this way why do you think he's still ranked top 10? Because the 3rd meeting was razor thin so essentially yes, Izzy won but not convincingly. In a 4th fight I'd favor Izzy because I've seen with my own eyes what he's capable of doing. The only way I see Rafa wining is if he fights the smartest fight of his life which he's very capable of doing and I believe Nacho will teach him how.
JMMs career has been one decorated with praise for his technique. A prodigy of the great Nacho Beristein who molded him into one of the greatest most skilled fighters of his generation. JMMs skills excell those of any of his country men, like MAB and Erik.
He's 0-1-1 vs. Pac, many people believe he won both fights. Many people believe he is to Pac what kryptonite is to Superman. Who else in recent times has hurt and wobled Pac?
JMM was the unified Featheweight champ beating and taking on all comers. I have no doubt in my mind he would have beaten Naz if Naz would have had the balls to fight him. But that's another thread....
Have you seen the Chris John fight? (Why do I even ask, of course you haven't) Well he was blantantly robbed out there. But that's what you call bad managing. Then the IBF unjusticely strips him of his belt for no apparent reason. Just because they felt like it.
I don't even have to talk about the rematch with Pac you saw it (I hope you did) and I saw it we all saw what happened.
Now JMM is moving up in weight and fighting the "Lineal" champ at lightweight. Not some trinket champ but the real champ if he wins this fight this would without a doubt put him above his country men Erik (which happens to be my fav. of the 3) and MAB.
When JMM is applied as seen in the ist fight with Pac and Juarez fight he is brilliant.
They are both great fighters and so are Izzy and Pac. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by hattonthehammer
What does this have to do with Boxing Talk?Quote:
Originally Posted by hattonthehammer
I'm on here because I choose to and I'm here to talk boxing in this forum.
I'm a die hard fan one whos a sTudent of the noble art and like to learn from other people on here.
I like that you tried in the begining of your post and was actually making valid statements but then you go and close out your comments with that.
Which is irrelevant to the subject in hand here.
No need to PM you on anything, You haven't done anything wrong here.Quote:
Originally Posted by hattonthehammer
You made a comment and I responded anytime you post something here it's open game and anyone can reply to it.
I'll close this out like this...
Your looking at Rafa & JMM in a fighter vs. fighter way which would be the wrong way to look at ones career. You need to see the adversity they faced, the opposition that was fought all around, the wins at championship level and the skills displayed in the ring. A fighters greatness is not measured solely on the fights they won.
Alexis Arguello lost to Vilomar Fernandez a guy who on his best day he would mop the floor with a guy who doesn't even come close to great.
Alexis also on paper lost twice to Aaron. Does that take away from Alexis greatness? Not at all. Does it take away from his skills, even a bigger NO.
Now check this out... Roberto Duran lost SRL twice quitting once but fought onto greatness. Does it take a way from his greatness? yeah! right top 5 P4P all time and HIGHER then the man who beat him twice.
Why? Again because greatness is not JUST measured on who you beat theres more to it. ;)
Dick Tiger lost to Giardello, Archer and Foster. Does it take away from his greatness? No, Dick Tigers one of the meanest muthafucks that's ever stepped into a ring and def. an all time great.
So there you have it. Whenever your ready.... :ears:
I didnt go through every page but if Johnny Tapia isn't the shoe in for winning this I gotta know who tops him.
He was giving a gift decision over solimanQuote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonny
isaac Hlatswayo
to me have alot of good wins and will fight anyone anywhere and seems to always to be look over
steve cunningham the same
No way.Quote:
Originally Posted by CountryBoyHe was giving a gift decision over solimanQuote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonny
The "G" Man! Would have loved to see him square off against Hopkins, Roy Jones, Pavlik, Calzaghe, etc. I feel bad to see him in the condition he is now.
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Originally Posted by amatNo way.Quote:
Originally Posted by CountryBoyHe was giving a gift decision over solimanQuote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonny
If I was a potential employer I know which posters I would drug test...
How about Roy Jones jr.?
In what way is RJJ unlucky?Quote:
Originally Posted by Manuel "Chubby" Medina
After recently I'd have to say Fres Oquendo. I don't think he got a fair shake against John Ruiz in the fight being stopped ridiculously quick. Evander Holyfield the fight was much closer than most think. Now James Toney who I thought Fres had beaten relatively easy in twelve rounds.
Pernell Whitaker he was robbed in every loss and draw he has.
He got KOed twice beacause of his weight dropping and now everythinks he sucks...or so they say.Quote:
Originally Posted by CGMIn what way is RJJ unlucky?Quote:
Originally Posted by Manuel "Chubby" Medina
He had over a year before the second Tarver fight, and he looked ok in it too, he just got caught. I wouldn't blame it on the weight, though I know some will. Not sure I'd call it luck, but whatever, I suppose there is a bit of a case for extenuating circumstances.Quote:
Originally Posted by Manuel "Chubby" MedinaHe got KOed twice beacause of his weight dropping and now everythinks he sucks...or so they say.Quote:
Originally Posted by CGMIn what way is RJJ unlucky?Quote:
Originally Posted by Manuel "Chubby" Medina
Emanuel Augustus
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Originally Posted by RozzySean
Augustus and Glen Johnson would be my top two......
Winky Wright??? - The only person unlucky after a Winky fight is the fan watching.....;D
Ricky the "Hitman" Hatton! he's going to the ring with Pacquiao and he's got that loud mouth ego (Just like being married to an old hag) Mayweather in his corner.
John Ruiz is the Luckiest fighter out there; to have such a successful boxing career with so little talent. And to keep on getting title opportunities.Quote:
Originally Posted by jmbtandy
Trinidad whooped him pretty cleanlyQuote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMick
I think Josh Clottey is very unlucky. I think hes as good if not better than most big name fighters like Cotto or Mosley, yet he is nowhere near a household name. His only two losses he was very unlucky not to have won. He was beating Baldomir before getting DQd and he was beating Margarito before breaking his hand. Probably one of the best in the world, but his name rarely comes up.
I would have to go with Augustus as the unluckiest just on the sheer number of fights that he has had robbed, I thought the last one against Figueroa was typical of he seems to get constantly get screwed over against younger opponents, particularly in any kind of big fights in the US
does johnny tapia count..
Or i think is he considered more like cursed?..
Meldrick Taylor...The fact that JCC knocked him down shows his greatness, but Taylor should have won the fight.
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Originally Posted by CutMeMickWhenever your ready hattonthehammer.... :)
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Originally Posted by CutMeMickSometimes I wonder when I read your posts how much boxing you've actually seen and how much you currently see.Quote:
Originally Posted by hattonthehammer
You mean to tell me that you think that both JMM & Rafa are NOT 2 of the greatest fighters of this generation?
The 1st brother duo to be Top 10 P4P and the..... You know what?
Before I waste any time and text here. I'd would really like to read you supporting facts to this and why you feel that neither guy is a great fighter. Whenever your ready I'm all :ears:
Heres both guys records so you don't have to go to BoxRec and look them up. Let me know if you need to see any one of their fights and I'll gladly up load them for you. ;)
JMM: Juan Manuel Marquez
Rafa: Rafael Marquez
I've never seen/read Mick rip into someone like that.