If Usain Bolt Wins the 200m As Convincingly as the 100m...

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Originally Posted by amat

I'm not diminishing what Phelps did at all. It was 7 world records btw. I'm not saying swimming isn't difficult or anything like that, all I'm saying is that Bolt's triumphs have been more eye opening then Phelps 8 golds. Granted, 8 golds is something that will never be accomplished or topped for a long time if ever. But how many other sports can you compete in and get 8 medals? 0. It's swimming and that's it so to use the numerical argument is a bit silly imo.

Every record Phelps broke had been broken in the past year. The 200m was a record most thought would stand our entire lives, that no human being would ever be able to top that. Bolt did and he made one of the most hallowed records in sports, the 100m time an absolute wash. I made this post after that. I wasn't even sure he could get the 200m record, knew he was capable but the glow around that record is really tough to beat and he did it.

I'm not simplifying Phelps' effort as just going down to his suit, but the suit does have a lot to do with the world records. It is a revolutionary suit that creates 0 friction in the water. Swimmers not using the suit were at such a disadvantage in the qualifiers and trials that before the Olympics Nike allowed all it's swimmers to not sport Nike in the Olympics but instead Speedo. Now obviously it's a level playing field since nearly every swimmer was using it and Phelps still won, but the suit has a lot to do with the world records that fell. I forget the exact number but almost every single gold medalist in the swimming events this year got the world record as well.

I'm not diminishing either, in fact the argument is fairly trivial because one is on land and one is on water. But at the very least they have to be acknowledged as equally dominant and to say Bolt has only accomplished 2/8 of what Phelps did is pretty absurd. Michael Johnson is every bit the Olympics legend as Mark Spitz and both guys got pretty much surpassed in Beijing though Spitz won the 100 freestyle which apparently is supposed to determine the world's fastest swimmer and Johnson still has the 400 record.

Scott Ostler wrote a very good article in the SF Chronicle today about the Phelps vs Bolt argument. I really recommend reading it.

Phelps now has company as the Games' poster guy

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I still don't see why it's easier to win more medals in swimming than on the track. Correct me if I'm wrong but don't they have virtually the same events in both disciplines.

For example the 4x100 meters, couldn't Bolt be part of that winning team?

Plus why can't he run the 400 meters? Phelps swam it, why is too much a test of stamina for a sprint athlete but not a sprint swimmer?

I can't see how winning 100, 200 and 400 meter races is any easier in a pool than on land. Actually you'd think it might be harder as swimming the same distance is far harder than running it, I mean it takes Bolt less than 10 seconds to run 100 meters but Phelps 50 seconds to swim it.

Surely therefore stamina would be more of an issue in swimming where it take around 5 mins to swim 400 m rather than 40 odd seconds to run it?

I read today that the 100 and 200 meter double had been achieved 8 times before him so hardly an unknown event, although he was the first to set two world records in both.

I think both have been outstanding but Bolt doesn't eclipse Phelps for me. Carl Lewis won 4 gold medals in 1984 which is a better achievement than Bolt so Bolt isn't ready to be called the greatest just yet.

Bolt's coach wants him to run the 400 and he could but he turned 22 between leaving the tunnel and finishing the race in the 200. A runner's prime isn't until 27-31. He'll have the 400 in his discipline next time out and some are predicting he'll be the one to break 40 seconds there. That's more of a stamina test though so who knows but it's possible that that could be his best event, he has a more conventional build for it. And sprinting takes a lot out of you. Wind sprints will bring back nightmares to basically everyone in America who played football at one time or another. I don't know what requires more but again, these are trivial points here as time doesn't tell everything, surely Phelps isn't exerting himself as much over those 5 minutes as a runner sprinting 400 is. Truth is me or you, neither of us know what takes more out of you so there is really no point bringing it up.

And I don't know what to tell you if you don't get how a swimmer gets more medals. There are a bunch of different strokes and Phelps does two of them, there is only 1 way to run so theres double the chances right there plus the backstroke and medleys where they mix and match.

If you want any further proof, research how many multiple medalists there have been in track opposed to swimming and you'll find your answer there.

Even with the long jump medal, Carl Lewis' 4 to Bolt's eventual 3 will be like splitting hairs and like I explained before in the era of specialization you just don't get the long jump/sprint hybrids anymore. Lewis didn't walk away with it like Bolt did either. No one has. Bolt is already in rarefied air in sprinting. Owens, Lewis, Johnson and Bolt is essentially how the list reads out right now.

Usain Bolt is a Juggernaut... End of discussion;D

I ran track and cross country in high school, sprinting is an amazing thing since the simplicity of it is just running straight ahead, there are no elaborate techniques involved other than making sure you keep your body mechanics in the sprint streamlined and economy of motion... but yea in that simplicity there is one man in this civilized world that holds an eye popping world record in probably the most basic and raw form of human competion since men were created on this earth.... Think about that for a minute

My arguement wasnt to downplay Phelps accompolishments, moreover I was lauding the sheer amazement and domination of Usain Bolt..

Bolt just got his 3rd medal by helping team Jamaican with the 400 relay, and of course broke the world record;)

ESPN - Bolt sets third world record of Games in 400 men's relay - Olympics

I watched the relay before it was awesome. Glad to see Tom Daley get in the semi final for the diving too.

Mick it might be Bigger but its not Higher ;D

3 Golds certainly is an achievment, it's amazing to think I'd never even heard of him until a week or so ago and now he's possibly the most talked about athlete in the world at this moment.

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Originally Posted by CutMeMick

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Originally Posted by JT Rock

I'm not disputing the greatness of Michael Phelps, I'm lauding the sheer amazement of Bolt.. To many observers it was a forgone conclusion that Phelps would accompolish what he did, were Bolt took an opportunity to shine on the biggest stage and snatch an amazing human speed record defying science and nature while doing so... Bolt had already broken the record months earlier but it was also touted as a possible fluke of sorts, were as he literally smoked the field breaking a timeless and rich in tradition record of the most earliest and basic form of Competion with a leg race..:o

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Did you see Johnsons reaction when Bolt broke his record?
Shit was funny...

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No I missed it, was he hatin;D

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Originally Posted by JT Rock

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Originally Posted by CutMeMick

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Originally Posted by JT Rock

I'm not disputing the greatness of Michael Phelps, I'm lauding the sheer amazement of Bolt.. To many observers it was a forgone conclusion that Phelps would accompolish what he did, were Bolt took an opportunity to shine on the biggest stage and snatch an amazing human speed record defying science and nature while doing so... Bolt had already broken the record months earlier but it was also touted as a possible fluke of sorts, were as he literally smoked the field breaking a timeless and rich in tradition record of the most earliest and basic form of Competion with a leg race..:o

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Did you see Johnsons reaction when Bolt broke his record?
Shit was funny...

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No I missed it, was he hatin;D

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Not hatin' at all... He was actually cool about it.
He was actually hatin' on Phelps. ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-cPwkKAt4g

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Originally Posted by CutMeMick

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Originally Posted by JT Rock

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Originally Posted by CutMeMick

Did you see Johnsons reaction when Bolt broke his record?
Shit was funny...

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No I missed it, was he hatin;D

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Not hatin' at all... He was actually cool about it.
He was actually hatin' on Phelps. ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-cPwkKAt4g

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Pretty cool... You can tell he is a true fan of the sport and not somone who just competed in it, Phelps who???? ;D

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Originally Posted by CutMeMick

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Originally Posted by JT Rock

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Originally Posted by CutMeMick

Did you see Johnsons reaction when Bolt broke his record?
Shit was funny...

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No I missed it, was he hatin;D

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Not hatin' at all... He was actually cool about it.
He was actually hatin' on Phelps. ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-cPwkKAt4g

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That was his reaction to Bolt breaking the 100m record.

He was much more sedate/awkward (for want of a better word :rolleyes:) when Bolt broke his 200 record. I think he was a little gutted and shocked.. beforehand he said he didn't think Bolt would do it.. and when Bolt crossed the line, jokingly with a big grin (hopeful) said "the time has to be rounded up."

I was a bit gutted for him too. :dontknow:

JT, spot on. Johnson is an EXCELLENT comm/pundit. Wish there were more like him in boxing.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

Phelps has won the 400 meters individual medley, 4 x 100 freestyle relay, 200 m freestyle, 200 m butterfly, 4x 200 freestyle relay, 200 m individual medley, 100 m butterfly and 4x100 medley relay.

I think swimming freestyle and butterfly are two totally different strokes and must be similar to a runner running 100 meters and 110 meter hurdles.

I guess for Bolt to match Phelps he would need the following.

100 meters
200 meters
110 hurdles
200 hurdles
400 metres
4x100 meters
4x200 meters

Then he'd be better imo.

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swimming is dumb, there should be one 200m, one 400 etc

all this brest stroke, butterfly etc

its like have the 100m sprint, then the 100m side step.

and what are you talking about hurdles, i didn;t see phelps having anything to jump over.

Track and field is the bread and butter of all athletics, always has been, always will be realy.

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Originally Posted by Preme

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

Phelps has won the 400 meters individual medley, 4 x 100 freestyle relay, 200 m freestyle, 200 m butterfly, 4x 200 freestyle relay, 200 m individual medley, 100 m butterfly and 4x100 medley relay.

I think swimming freestyle and butterfly are two totally different strokes and must be similar to a runner running 100 meters and 110 meter hurdles.

I guess for Bolt to match Phelps he would need the following.

100 meters
200 meters
110 hurdles
200 hurdles
400 metres
4x100 meters
4x200 meters

Then he'd be better imo.

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swimming is dumb, there should be one 200m, one 400 etc

all this brest stroke, butterfly etc

its like have the 100m sprint, then the 100m side step.

and what are you talking about hurdles, i didn;t see phelps having anything to jump over.

Track and field is the bread and butter of all athletics, always has been, always will be realy.

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Swimming different strokes takes skill, I don't see why it would be any easier to become world class in front crawl and butterfly than it would to master both running and jumping. I mean really how hard can it be to leap into a sandpit? They already have the speed and the leg power its only a case of learning another technique?

And before you say it's totally different, Carl Lewis was the world record holder in both 100 meters 200 meters and long jump.

The only swimmers who have really dominated the medals in their sports are Phelps and Spitz, and now Bolt is getting close to emulating Lewis and doing it on the track.

But I really don't buy this idea that a track athlete should only be expected to be good in one particular sprint.

They are elite athletes for God's sake they should be able to master the art of both running and jumping.

As for the swimming part of this thread, I guess Phelps was happy when Thorpe retired. Take away the suit and see if he can still set world records.

In sprints (running) there are no special gimmicks (suits) to help you win

Some People are missing the point, Gravity. When training Swimmers get fit without impact, very rare get injured. Runners starting at that Level without injury are Lucky or trained correct and timed it just right to withstand Stress, get it wrong six months before youre out.

Im a huge Athletics fan. I'm so happy for Bolt. Im happy for Jamaican in general, did you the the footage of them in the streets partying like crazy!!


I wanna see Bolt in the 400. To me thats the most sophisticated event out of the sprints.... And its not for anyone, probably a very specialist event. You need some serious speed but you need some SERIOUS speed-Endurance.

Thats why for me Michael Johnson is still King.

Id like to see if Bolt could handle actually holding back at the start of the race and enduring a strong finish.

I remember seeing 110m hurdler, Allen Johnson fill in for someone on the 4x400m relay years ago. He ran well but he looked like shit afterwards ;D

ESPN - Usain Bolt edges Michael Phelps for media's athlete of the year

The media got it right I'm somewhat shocked to say but they really got it with the nail on the head. What Phelps did was as gaudy and fantastic as you can possibly be in terms of accomplishments but Usain Bolt put on the most amazing display of skill and speed at the Olympics among the greatest of all time, it's really hard to argue it's not.

I think his performance in the Olympics was the top sporting feet this year.

I don't know

He was cartoonishly dominant. Of course Phelps was too in some of the events and he did so many.

But I don't care enough to debate it in any serious way honestly

BTW the track and field section of the Olympics bored the shit out of me for the most part this year.

I don't know why, I usually like it (well only at the Olympics) but I just couldn't get into it, it was like the Olympics was over after the first week.

Except for Bolt really. He was the only story really. But even him, as amazing as he is it almost seems like it comes too easy to him if that makes any sense. Its like he's just so much physically better than anybody that its pointless, didn't he only do the 100 for like a year? It just seems like he doesn't even have to try. At the same time I know he probably worked pretty hard but still. I'm sure Phelps has a lot of physical advantages too but Bolt is just off the charts.

I'm rambling. Why am I talking about the Olympics now? Fuck's sake.

I agree with the decision to name Bolt athlete of the year. Compared to Phelps, Bolt was much more dominant in his events. I mean really. Running the 100m in 9.69 is awesome. And he can probably go faster. It will be a long time before anyone else tops Bolt's world records.

Look at this I went hard at this man I raped Bilbo this thread for all intensive purposes Bilbo you were wrong. Maybe rape is the wrong word that might stimulate something in your sick convoluted mind.

But yeah good for Bolt.

I heard they don't really have any independent Caribbean, anti-doping federation. Which raises concern to me im not saying he does take steroids. But i think most of the runners do take steroids.

I hope he isn't though because he is good for the sport, he is young and i don't remember ever seeing a sprinter of that size. And Michael Johnson used to be one of my idols growing up, so its good too see the torch pass on, but he is very suspect IMO.

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Originally Posted by amat

Look at this I went hard at this man I raped Bilbo this thread for all intensive purposes Bilbo you were wrong. Maybe rape is the wrong word that might stimulate something in your sick convoluted mind.

But yeah good for Bolt.

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Wow you revive a several months old thread to try and prove a point over me and then acuse me of being the petty one?

You then talk of wanting to rape me and accuse me of being the perverted one?

You are a twisted young man Amat.

Like Ouma I don't care enough to debate this but I will say, in the words of Buzz Lightyear to Woody in Toy Story, words that you once spoke of me ' You are a sad, strange little man and you have my pity, farewell' :)

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Originally Posted by Nonito Donaire

I heard they don't really have any independent Caribbean, anti-doping federation. Which raises concern to me im not saying he does take steroids. But i think most of the runners do take steroids.

I hope he isn't though because he is good for the sport, he is young and i don't remember ever seeing a sprinter of that size. And Michael Johnson used to be one of my idols growing up, so its good too see the torch pass on, but he is very suspect IMO.

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YEah I see there have been some suspicions directed at Jamaica. What makes Bolt suspect, his dominance? If he is suspect, then they're all suspect. I don't know the ins and outs of how drug testing goes, but at an international level I'm sure he is subject to the same testing as everyone else, and at the Olympics you can be sure he is being tested as well as it is humanly possible to test someone.

Another top sprinter who's records still hold is Florence Griffith Joyner. (FloJo). If ever there was someone who is suspect, it's her. Johnson, I'm not sure abut, He never really struck me like that, but who knows. But Flojo sure did.

And then there was lynford christie, didn't he get dinged once?

Of course we all know about Ben Johnson. :(

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Originally Posted by CGM

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Originally Posted by Nonito Donaire

I heard they don't really have any independent Caribbean, anti-doping federation. Which raises concern to me im not saying he does take steroids. But i think most of the runners do take steroids.

I hope he isn't though because he is good for the sport, he is young and i don't remember ever seeing a sprinter of that size. And Michael Johnson used to be one of my idols growing up, so its good too see the torch pass on, but he is very suspect IMO.

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YEah I see there have been some suspicions directed at Jamaica. What makes Bolt suspect, his dominance? If he is suspect, then they're all suspect. I don't know the ins and outs of how drug testing goes, but at an international level I'm sure he is subject to the same testing as everyone else, and at the Olympics you can be sure he is being tested as well as it is humanly possible to test someone.

Another top sprinter who's records still hold is Florence Griffith Joyner. (FloJo). If ever there was someone who is suspect, it's her. Johnson, I'm not sure abut, He never really struck me like that, but who knows. But Flojo sure did.

And then there was lynford christie, didn't he get dinged once?

Of course we all know about Ben Johnson. :(

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You still had Donovan Bailey he was one of my favorites. I watched him when i was 6 breaking the record at Atlanta in 1996, with one of the worst starts i can ever remember.

I heard he had a bad injury the last time i see him was when he got like 12 seconds, which was sad he could have been alot greater IMO. I heard him and Michael Johnson got the highest maxium speed recorded like 27.2 mph or something, not sure if that still stands though.

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Originally Posted by Nonito Donaire

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Originally Posted by CGM

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Originally Posted by Nonito Donaire

I heard they don't really have any independent Caribbean, anti-doping federation. Which raises concern to me im not saying he does take steroids. But i think most of the runners do take steroids.

I hope he isn't though because he is good for the sport, he is young and i don't remember ever seeing a sprinter of that size. And Michael Johnson used to be one of my idols growing up, so its good too see the torch pass on, but he is very suspect IMO.

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YEah I see there have been some suspicions directed at Jamaica. What makes Bolt suspect, his dominance? If he is suspect, then they're all suspect. I don't know the ins and outs of how drug testing goes, but at an international level I'm sure he is subject to the same testing as everyone else, and at the Olympics you can be sure he is being tested as well as it is humanly possible to test someone.

Another top sprinter who's records still hold is Florence Griffith Joyner. (FloJo). If ever there was someone who is suspect, it's her. Johnson, I'm not sure abut, He never really struck me like that, but who knows. But Flojo sure did.

And then there was lynford christie, didn't he get dinged once?

Of course we all know about Ben Johnson. :(

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You still had Donovan Bailey he was one of my favorites. I watched him when i was 6 breaking the record at Atlanta in 1996, with one of the worst starts i can ever remember.

I heard he had a bad injury the last time i see him was when he got like 12 seconds, which was sad he could have been alot greater IMO. I heard him and Michael Johnson got the highest maxium speed recorded like 27.2 mph or something, not sure if that still stands though.

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yeah, Bailey's win was awesome, I remember it well. At first I thought he would lose, but by the time the race was half over he looked very good. Also his 150m exhibition race against Johnson, that was close, until Johnsome pulled a muscle.

Interesting to note that the unofficial title of "The World's fastest man" always has gone to the 100m champion. Until the 1996 olympics, where Bailey won the 100 and Johnson won the 200. Of course the US media really played down Bailey and played up Johnson, and for a time it was the 200m champion who beame the world's fastest man.

Another recent top notch Canadian sprinter was Bruny Surin, who ran 9.84 in a losing effort against Maurice Greene in 1999.

If you are into sprinting history, look up Harry Jerome, he is probably the top ever Canadian sprinter, in terms of having the most world records.