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Cotto got dismantled because he started slugging with Margarito, concrete(if true) gloves or not, they'd hardly have mattered if Cotto wasnt taking punches so frequently, his decision not to box is more to blame for his loss then any cinderblock glovesQuote:
Originally Posted by Lance Uppercut
I have yet to see a link post about the cheating hand thing i want some proof on exactly what is was is like how Tito wraped his hands wrong or is it somthing different give me a article someone please i heard it on hbo but i have not seen a solid report on what was being used at the time.
Did you see Margaritos face after the Cotto bout? Those were more than just mosquito bites and just imagine, Cotto was getting hit with dirty wraps so we are using small 8 oz gloves and the wraps when harden, weigh about a pound each. All Tony had to do is land a few good shots with the cast fists and he would do damage. Had Tony not been caught cheating, he would have done the same to Mosley as he did to Cotto but the PUTO got caught cheating and then was exposed because he knew he did not have his loaded gloves to give him any advantage over Mosley. Tony with out his cheating cast wraps will get owned by Cotto if Tony does not retire first and look for Cintron to want a piece of that CHEATING motha' phuka's azz too because that is how Tony beat Cintron twice with them illegal wetback gloves of his that were soaked up to the hilt when someone said wait, something aint right here. No wonder Tony is a slow starter, the plaster dont set until he is in the later rounds :-\ Phuk you China for trying to defend that cheating azz puto.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChinoI hope Cotto doesn't lose on June because then, what excuse will there be? First it was "Oh, Cotto lost because of his nose that was damaged...Cotto lost because his body was damaged..." all kinds of excuses. Now the plaster in his fists. I am not justifying him if it is confirmed that he used that on his fists. If he cheated, then how bad really. Bad for him and the sport.Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffP4PLacy
But, how can we explain the fact that Cotto's punches were mosquito bites on Margarito?
Remember when you used to love Margarito Danny? :-\
They didn't ask Margarito if I remember after the fight. Lampley said something about plastic pieces in the wraps, they would be like little ridges in between the knuckles I think. The ridges help cause cuts. One guy did this recently I think the trainer would roll up the tape and make ridges, no illegal material just illegal wrapping.
I've always thought of Margarito as a natural junior middleweight fighting as a welter thus gaining obvious advantage in natural size and strength over most of his opponents. Tonight was a payback for the tons of smaller fighters he has victimized.
If proven that he really did cheat, he will be labeled as a sly bully. Instead of just a bully.
Like i been saying there still no proof of what he was using they are looking into any thing that is said right now is just a thought.
Hey contest have you heard exactly what has been said because i have not seen a link on what the problems were and i really like to know.
When i was watching the fight they were not clear on what was really being used and still no proof on it because they are investigating right.
Wasn't Jack Dempsey accused of the same thing in 1 of his fights over 100 years ago.
i think Cotto help break that chin a bit. Sooner or later those shots will kick in and I think Mosley finished the job but the way margs got owned shows how much of a trash boxer he is.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChinoI hope Cotto doesn't lose on June because then, what excuse will there be? First it was "Oh, Cotto lost because of his nose that was damaged...Cotto lost because his body was damaged..." all kinds of excuses. Now the plaster in his fists. I am not justifying him if it is confirmed that he used that on his fists. If he cheated, then how bad really. Bad for him and the sport.Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffP4PLacy
But, how can we explain the fact that Cotto's punches were mosquito bites on Margarito?
Whether or not Margarito cheated, is that really necessary? Not exactly PC, there ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny_GDid you see Margaritos face after the Cotto bout? Those were more than just mosquito bites and just imagine, Cotto was getting hit with dirty wraps so we are using small 8 oz gloves and the wraps when harden, weigh about a pound each. All Tony had to do is land a few good shots with the cast fists and he would do damage. Had Tony not been caught cheating, he would have done the same to Mosley as he did to Cotto but the PUTO got caught cheating and then was exposed because he knew he did not have his loaded gloves to give him any advantage over Mosley. Tony with out his cheating cast wraps will get owned by Cotto if Tony does not retire first and look for Cintron to want a piece of that CHEATING motha' phuka's azz too because that is how Tony beat Cintron twice with them illegal wetback gloves of his that were soaked up to the hilt when someone said wait, something aint right here. No wonder Tony is a slow starter, the plaster dont set until he is in the later rounds :-\ Phuk you China for trying to defend that cheating azz puto.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChinoI hope Cotto doesn't lose on June because then, what excuse will there be? First it was "Oh, Cotto lost because of his nose that was damaged...Cotto lost because his body was damaged..." all kinds of excuses. Now the plaster in his fists. I am not justifying him if it is confirmed that he used that on his fists. If he cheated, then how bad really. Bad for him and the sport.Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffP4PLacy
But, how can we explain the fact that Cotto's punches were mosquito bites on Margarito?
This talks about it a little. We will need official confirmation before we judge him, but it seems suspicious at this stage.
Margarito trying to plaster Mosley? | The Fabulous Forum | Los Angeles Times
Everyones having a go at Margarito but name 1 fighter that could have done that to Tony apart from Shane
Floyd? no . Pac no. Hatton no
Shanes the only guy in the world capable of doing that.
A one dimensional no skills fighter who has to cheat to win with the hand wraps thing. All he can do is move forward hoping that he can walk through punches. Glad that a fighter with real skills took him apart. He is really just a hyped up version of Arturo Gatti. Hate to imagine what Floyd would have done to him.
well said i love both fighters and congrats to SSM but please this is a mans reputation and his livley hood lets wait and find out, al though i just cannot see him cheating it will all come out sooner or later.;DQuote:
Originally Posted by Greig
won a decision in a fight people would bash him for for not standing and trading enough like they always do?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hughesd
True. and these folks should realize the outcome most probably would have been the same even if the 'handwrapping' controversy isn't exposed. I don't think these plaster of paris shiit would have made him won tonight. Not at all. Does that make his punches more accurate? NO. Does that make his punches harder? Maybe. Probably. But I don't think it exaggerately increases the sting of his punches. Wtf.. I don't think that plaster is like 10x harder than his knuckles! Shane Mosley did turn back the clock and delivered an awesome performance. That's it.Quote:
Originally Posted by GAME
I agree with this one. While I believe the other fighter mentions could beat him, I don't think they could beat him like Shane did. Shane has the chin, ability and power to do what no one else could. Let's see if he soften up Tony for future competition.Quote:
Originally Posted by GAME
I agree. Didn't think for one second Shane could hurt Marg, but he did over and over. Puerto Rican fans have short memories if they start trashingMarg over wraps, one word - Tito.Quote:
Originally Posted by GAME
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Originally Posted by Majestywon a decision in a fight people would bash him for for not standing and trading enough like they always do?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hughesd
Exactly . As good as Floyd is, no way would he have stood his ground then force Tony back like Shane did.
As I say, nobody could have done what Shane did and thats why hes the number 1 welterweight . . . AGAIN !!
I am really disappointed in Danny for his dramatic reactionary posts which have no substance. The same with JeffLacy (who is the same person).
Got your point. If I were a fan of any fighter that Margarito has beaten in the past I might as well be like a mad dog right now. But being a big fan of Antonio Margarito and knowing him as a true gentleman on and off the ring I would be defensive on these brutal accusations that tend to blemish his previous accomplishments. It's just not right. He didn't beat his opponents before because he had very hard fists. It's because he had a very hard chin. I don't think those plasters gave him great stamina and endurance. I don't think he walked through Cotto's punches because of it. And I don't think those plasters affect his punching power that much. the bare knuckles, the human bone isn't that 'soft' compared to this material that is used to make casts. It won't make his punches like 10x harder. and no matter how much wraps and plasters are on his knuckles the gloves won't be thinner and would remain the same. feelin me?Quote:
Originally Posted by YoungbloodQuote:
Originally Posted by the_pRoDiGy
I do agree with most of your post. This should be about Mosely's performance, as what a performance it was. He was in a zone and on his game in a way much like I saw only in my recent memory in Bhop in Bhop/Pavlik. Completely focused, firing on all cylinders and utilizing all the tools and skill that come with a long successful career.
So much kudos to Sugar Shane.
I also agree that we must first get the facts in before we start throwing stones and questioning fights prior. So let us do that.
Where I don't agree, is in suggesting that if proven, we cannot take Margarito's previous performances and look at them with a suspicious eye. Integrity is integrity. There is a reason when a cop or a prosecuting attorney is caught cheating the system to further their agenda to get a win that often previous cases are then relooked at.
The reason is that if a person is proven to have such a lack of ethics enough to cheat to further their agenda now, the chances are much higher they have had them in the past. Actions speak.
So don't blame fans of Cotto and other people Margarito has beaten for casting that suspicious eye, or even for making angered assumptions. If it is proven he cheated tonight...the person to blame for all the suspicion is Antonio Margarito, the person who wraps his hands and anyone else who may have known.
And no, if it is proven, he shouldn't in my opinion lose those past fights, unless some revelation comes out telling, proving of how he cheated then also. But he should, again, if proven...have to suffer considerable consequences for it. Monetary? I think so. A suspension? I think so. A tarnish on his legacy? Most definately.
This sport cannot afford cheating. Not in this climate where it already struggles and is competing for fans. Not from promotors. Not from judges. And most certainly...not from it's athletes.
And since everyone is making assumptions on this issue.. let me tell you mine. My own biased view..
As far as I knew.. one of this handwraps' main purpose is to increase the power of the punches. Yes.. a better grip and more compact fists hits harder. So aside from protection. These handwraps are built to implict more damage on opponents. There are various ways of handwrapping. It depends on where the boxer is more comfortable.. and of course the trainer's style. In the Nevada rules, there is only a certain amount of length of wraps that is allowed for boxers.
As the fight goes on..surely these wraps tend to loosen up more. Margarito's team could have been using this plaster of paris to prevent the wraps to loosen up during the fight. Yes..around the fist. And not just on the knuckles. you don't punch using the back of your hand! Someone in here said it weighs almost a pound. On the area of the knuckles alone? that's ridiculous. and considering the fact that they have to change the handwrapping for 3 times...you call that intentional cheating?!? if they were guilty of something I don't think they would attempt to do the same thing again or worst for the 3rd time! if that was cheating... I am hoping that his team.. and much more Antonio Margarito..is unaware that they were doing something illegal.
The guy is never known for fighting dirty inside the ring. I don't think he is outside the ring. He's too classy and too gallant of a fighter to do such unforgiveable act.
I think the post has substance. The negative cultural comments are not cool ( i personally would start another thread apologizing for that), but I can understand a fanatics concern about something like illegal hand wraps being used against other fighters.
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Originally Posted by Greig
Absolutely. And these ignorant "vigilante posters" :rolleyes: should be admonished for jumping to conclusions.
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Originally Posted by belakbox
Utterly pointless. The commission will review an accusation like this with the caution, which is the only way to proceed in an orderly way.
IMO... I hope so.
If I were a fan of any fighter that Margarito has beaten in the past I might as well be like a mad dog right now. But being a big fan of Antonio Margarito and knowing him as a true gentleman on and off the ring I would be defensive on these brutal accusations that tend to blemish his previous accomplishments. It's just not right. He didn't beat his opponents before because he had very hard fists. It's because he had a very hard chin. I don't think those plasters gave him great stamina and endurance. I don't think he walked through Cotto's punches because of it. And I don't think those plasters affect his punching power that much. the bare knuckles, the human bone isn't that 'soft' compared to this material that is used to make casts. It won't make his punches like 10x harder. and no matter how much wraps and plasters are on his knuckles the gloves won't be thinner and would remain the same. feelin me?
And since everyone is making assumptions on this issue.. let me tell you mine. My own biased view..
As far as I knew.. one of this handwraps' main purpose is to increase the power of the punches. Yes.. a better grip and more compact fists hits harder. So aside from protection. These handwraps are built to implict more damage on opponents. There are various ways of handwrapping. It depends on where the boxer is more comfortable.. and of course the trainer's style. In the Nevada rules, there is only a certain amount of length of wraps that is allowed for boxers.
As the fight goes on..surely these wraps tend to loosen up more. Margarito's team could have been using this plaster of paris to prevent the wraps to loosen up during the fight. Yes..around the fist. And not just on the knuckles. you don't punch using the back of your hand! Someone in here said it weighs almost a pound. On the area of the knuckles alone? that's ridiculous. and considering the fact that they have to change the handwrapping for 3 times...you call that intentional cheating?!? if they were guilty of something I don't think they would attempt to do the same thing again or worst for the 3rd time! if that was cheating... I am hoping that his team.. and much more Antonio Margarito..is unaware that they were doing something illegal.
The guy is never known for fighting dirty inside the ring. I don't think he is outside the ring. He's too classy and too gallant of a fighter to do such unforgiveable act.
True. I'm giving Margarito full credit for all his accomplishments unless he's somehow proven guilty. I don't think anything will come of it and the fights will move on. But I can understand fans being upset at the accusation and the findings in the article that was posted. The corners will need to keep a watchful eye on their opponents in the future and show up prepared. Boxing has always been a shady sport.
I'll wait and see what the official outcome is, but I too think it would be extremely odd for margarito to be cheating, being that he always extremely professional in and outside of the ring. We shall see. I think the whole issue will just go away and the fights will keep coming. The corners will just need to be more watchful in the future.
Danny I would flush your ass if I could. I find your threads to be similar to royal's, albeit more graphic.
Here is what we know:
Lampley kept saying the same shit over and over and over about his hand wraps. No evidence. I find if funny that HBO boxing (which seems to think it is necessary to inject drama into everything) didn't show this "cast." Because nobody had cameras of any kind in the dressing room..... yeah right.
So what we have is Lampley (I guess beauty queens don't require hand wraps) unilaterally making accusations to an entire camp who doesn't speak english on broadcasted television. That my friends is a tragedy. Lampley is the true cheat.
Further, Margarito didn't fight with this alleged "cast." When something that was probably more mind games requiring Margarito to rewrap his hands 3 times puts a question mark over an entire career is really sad. It is sad to think boxing fans could be that naive or so fair-weather.
Finally, Mosely is no saint himself. Being the subject of a steroid invetigation, even if Margarito did use something illegal, it is not as if he was using it on someone who was above doing anything to get an edge on an opponent.
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Originally Posted by belakbox
Fans are upset because they can not take a Cotto defeat. And when i say fans, I mean DAnny. He has 3 alts on here and is the only one winding up unnecessarily on here.
Cotto isn't the best welterweight out there. I can live with it. Some people can't.
No - there were always rumours that Dempsey used plaster of paris rather than talcum powder on his hands, the theory being that it hardened when his corner threw water on him in between rounds. This was never proven and it annoyed Dempsey so much that he insisted on using the other corner's talc quite a few times.Quote:
Originally Posted by WelshDevilRob
I think what you're referring to was his title fight against Jess Willard. At the time, people thought Dempsey would be killed, but he inflicted serious damage on Big Jess in the first round - he knocked him down about 7 times, fractured his eye socket, broke his jaw and ribs and cut him up. To his dying day, Willard said that Dempsey had a big coach bolt in his right hand and was hitting him with the bolt. He said that after the fight, one of his cornermen found the bolt in the ring
If you watch the fight, it is clear that Dempsey is sometimes hitting Willard with the side of his right hand.
The talc thing isn't plausible in this fight as he did all the damage in the first round, before any water was poured on him, and it wouldn't have had time to harden anyway
From my experience there has to be a commisioner present while getting your hands wrapped. He has to mark diffent spots on the wraps with pen, basically signing off on them while watching closely the whole time, and then a final signature of apporval on each hand. Lets not jump to conclusions and slander the man based on what a Golden Boy staff member said, and wait for the official results.
That's the problem. Or maybe not. There's really nothing wrong about being too watchful. It's part of their job. But they might as well do business discretely and keep it to themselves and agree to terms on what is legal, what is it that they prefer. I think that is what exactly happened when you take a better look at it. They changed the wraps thrice. Sounds like they finally agreed to each other by then. But the media..the fukkin HBO.. They made things worst. So bad that it can tarnish and ruin a man's legacy forever. If Cotto's camp taught it was ok (I'm sure they saw it and wass fully aware of it) and Naazim Richardson taught it wasn't appropriate..they can't call that cheating and that is not cheating. the fact that they have to unwrap thrice..you know its not cheating. its simply something they didn't agreed instantly. The media..especially Jim Lampley..needs to get in the ring with Tony and taste some bareknuckles.Quote:
Originally Posted by belakbox
I agree - let's wait and see what happens.
Let's also not forget that sweet innocent Shane was officially found to be a steroid abuser. Boxing has never been a clean sport but let's not jump to conclusions about Margarito until they are proven.
Maybe the plaster of paris was leaking from his chin ;D
That is indeed the saddest part. Understable to hear shiits from die hard narrow-minded bitter Cotto fans. But to say that the he is nothing without those 'casts'. thats bullshiit. Like I said above, he didn't reach this point because of this plaster of paris. And Mosley as well didn't won tonight because Tony didn't have these casts. Fukk 'em. Fukk Lampley. Fukk HBO. Fukk the media.Quote:
Originally Posted by boozeboxer
Yes I've always taught the same. But really he is a natural welterweight. To prove you that, he hit the scales weighing 145.8 pounds last night. I don't think a guy too big for 147 can afford nor would manage to do so. and ohh.. Mosley weighed over the limit and has to sweat it out more last night.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pavlik
Is this true? Gotta go for Cotto to win a rematch now then! No wonder his nose broke early on when they fought.