Berto is dissapointing me

I know this sounds redundant,But I'm struggling to think of a key player Berto could get by.He is a very flawed guy,has a naaaaasty habit of holding off of leads,arms open like he is welcoming his long last Aunt from the airport or something,head standing high.Can you picture him getting away with that on the inside vs. a Williams,Cotto,Margarito or Mosley..etc.He fights like a one-two punch slugger and his legs are sketchy,rigid.I think Collazo is due a rematch...would be a good opportunity for Berto to close that chapter,re-tool and make that huge impact he's struggling to find.

I don't mind the holding after landing the lead against a fast dangerous opponent, its the smart thing to do, and Mayweather and Roy Jones and Hopkins do it all the time, but Berto is wide open when he is in clinches, like you said, he doesn't do a great job of tying his opponent up on the inside. Despite ahve rigid legs, he still moves very well, and IMO is a better pure boxer than Mosley, but I've never been a huge fan of Mosley. I just think they are both too robotic.

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Originally Posted by Taeth

I don't mind the holding after landing the lead against a fast dangerous opponent, its the smart thing to do, and Mayweather and Roy Jones and Hopkins do it all the time, but Berto is wide open when he is in clinches, like you said, he doesn't do a great job of tying his opponent up on the inside. Despite ahve rigid legs, he still moves very well, and IMO is a better pure boxer than Mosley, but I've never been a huge fan of Mosley. I just think they are both too robotic.

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All of those guys work on the inside,and in Jones and Hopkins cases, they usually came in off of very potent leads.Work on the inside not only with hands,but setting up/picking shots once the inevitable break comes......Berto just....stands there mostly,literally.But then again,they have 2 or 3 times the experience a Berto has as well.Seems like he is over thinking and still caught in between styles.Very dangerous for any fighter on the inside to be idle.I just cant get away from feeling that they 'rushed him to market',now he might be going into huge fights against top tier guys where he needs to make the adjustment he should have been making/sharpening up on many fights ago.Very interested to see what direction they go with next fight.

Berto still has not impressed me, other than his heart in the Collazo fight, but on a technical aspect he hasn't really done anything to blow me away, last night he hugged just as much as Wlad, and didn't even do it half as effectively, his power has pretty much proved to be VERY MUCH overrated, even when he lands shots that look like they'd end your career his opponants don't even really flinch, his speed is great, but he never really puts a gameplan together to fully showcase the talent he's supposed to be possessing, Mosley, Cotto, Mayweather, and Williams all beat Berto, and i'd dare to say that most likely all but Floyd would stop him, Berto's shown time and time again that he really isn't that stron mentally, most notably in the Collazo fight, i say put him in against Judah or even Quintana

How is his power not proven? People don't get KO's if they don't have power. Mayweather has all the speed in the world and he didn't get KO's early on. Berto has foughten three guys in a row that are pretty much impossible to legitimately hurt Forbes, Collazo, and Urango all have great chins.

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Originally Posted by Taeth

I don't mind the holding after landing the lead against a fast dangerous opponent, its the smart thing to do, and Mayweather and Roy Jones and Hopkins do it all the time, but Berto is wide open when he is in clinches, like you said, he doesn't do a great job of tying his opponent up on the inside. Despite ahve rigid legs, he still moves very well, and IMO is a better pure boxer than Mosley, but I've never been a huge fan of Mosley. I just think they are both too robotic.

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Of the three fighters you used as an example, Hopkins holds the most as a strategy, agree with that. Jones in his prime did not hold that much, he didn't need to, nor does FM hold as much as Berto, he relies on his defense a lot. It was apparent to me that the holding was part of Berto's game plan as his corner was instructing him on how to hold and get away with it. He should have been deducted points. He was holding because he couldn't handle the infighting. His trainers should teach him to move his head and give his opponent some angles and slide off instead of punching and then grabbing. He has fast hands going for him and that's about it because he doesn't know what to do after he punches other than grab. There are some times a fighter needs to hold as it has its place in boxing, but not almost every time after he punches. Urango was slow, Berto should have been able to make him miss and then countered him easily as his shots were wide and Berto was much faster. His punching power is not all that great either because he needs to take a little speed off of them and set down on his punches more. I think he is all ready thinking about clinching as he is punching so he gets them of as quick as possible. IMO Berto will lose to any of the top welterweights. If he proves me wrong I will be the first to admit it.

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Originally Posted by CFH

I wouldn't mind seeing Berto in with the loser of Cotto - Clottey, meaning Clottey. That would be a good test for him.

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Since you guys neg repped me by mentioning a possible PAC-Berto fight in this thread, do I have the right to neg rep you for mentioning Cotto, Clottey here?
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Originally Posted by Taeth

I really was expecting a Pacquiao-Diaz type fight, it should be like that, and he's landing a lot, but he isn't dominating like I expected, with his power and speed he should have Urango totally clueless. Also wtf is with the holding, he should be countering so much Urango shouldn't want to come forward, or because Urango is so slow he should be confident with his defense than Juan won't land anything. IMO Berto needs a new trainer, I am not saying that fixes everything, but this guy is teaching him the wrong things, IMO FMSR is perfect for him.

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Basically he is very average in the grand scheme of things and nearly everyone knows it, but for some reason you cant seem to come to terms with it. He will be beaton as soon as he meets someone decent, i.e anyone in the top 5 at 147.

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Originally Posted by Taeth

I really was expecting a Pacquiao-Diaz type fight, it should be like that, and he's landing a lot, but he isn't dominating like I expected, with his power and speed he should have Urango totally clueless. Also wtf is with the holding, he should be countering so much Urango shouldn't want to come forward, or because Urango is so slow he should be confident with his defense than Juan won't land anything. IMO Berto needs a new trainer, I am not saying that fixes everything, but this guy is teaching him the wrong things, IMO FMSR is perfect for him.

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I'm also expecting the fast Berto to inflict a PAC-Diaz type of domination on the slow Urango (tho I rooted for Urango ;) )... This just shows that Berto is maybe still 2 or 3 notches below the level of PAC...;)
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Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

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Originally Posted by CFH

I wouldn't mind seeing Berto in with the loser of Cotto - Clottey, meaning Clottey. That would be a good test for him.

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Since you guys neg repped me by mentioning a possible PAC-Berto fight in this thread, do I have the right to neg rep you for mentioning Cotto, Clottey here?
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It's not the same thing because: a) We are not trolls, and b) we don't go around mentioning Cotto and/or Clottey in every thread we can, regardless of the subject matter of those threads.

Neg rep away though, it doesn't bother me.

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Originally Posted by CFH

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Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

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Originally Posted by CFH

I wouldn't mind seeing Berto in with the loser of Cotto - Clottey, meaning Clottey. That would be a good test for him.

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Since you guys neg repped me by mentioning a possible PAC-Berto fight in this thread, do I have the right to neg rep you for mentioning Cotto, Clottey here?
.

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It's not the same thing because: a) We are not trolls, and b) we don't go around mentioning Cotto and/or Clottey in every thread we can, regardless of the subject matter of those threads.

Neg rep away though, it doesn't bother me.

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It doesn't bother me either... So better for you to stop giving me neg rep... ;D I just retaliated giving neg rep just the fun of it...;D I like discussing boxing at the same time having fun...;D
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Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

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Originally Posted by CFH

I wouldn't mind seeing Berto in with the loser of Cotto - Clottey, meaning Clottey. That would be a good test for him.

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Since you guys neg repped me by mentioning a possible PAC-Berto fight in this thread, do I have the right to neg rep you for mentioning Cotto, Clottey here? .

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Not at all. CFH doesn't bring them into the threads he posts in. CFH talks about boxing, You talk about Pacquiao.

Like it or not, you have a complete label on you in this forum community.

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Originally Posted by C-Lo

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Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

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Originally Posted by CFH

I wouldn't mind seeing Berto in with the loser of Cotto - Clottey, meaning Clottey. That would be a good test for him.

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Since you guys neg repped me by mentioning a possible PAC-Berto fight in this thread, do I have the right to neg rep you for mentioning Cotto, Clottey here? .

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Not at all. CFH doesn't bring them into the threads he posts in. CFH talks about boxing, You talk about Pacquiao.

Like it or not, you have a complete label on you in this forum community.

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I think it's a double standard... but no worries, I'm just here to discuss boxing... Neg rep and double standard won't bother me...
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...what berto did against urango to me was fine. They obviously had the plan to go in there and win not KO the guy. The problem with all the holding is that he didn't need to do it. He could have made the night harder and maybe impress us a lot more but he choose to make an easy night of it get a check and move on. No big deal. Against a guy who he wasn't gonna ko anyway and just threw wild punches with his head down without looking most of the time i would have liked to see more from berto, but after the first two rounds wasn't expecting it. He's picking and choosing his battles and right now with the division so deep and crazy i don't have a prob with that.

Berto seems to be set to have an advantage over most of his opponents to date. Collazo was alot more game that they thought when they picked him. Urango was very one dimensional as someone said earlier in this thread.
Berto has some speed and ring generalship, but watching him fight... it could be fair to say hes in the wrong business because he seems to go into every fight with a preconcieved idea that he shouldn't be hit. It wasn't a bad fight against Unrago, but very boring to see a guy with a natural advantage in speed and weight maximize that all night but trying to sting a guy with a quick combo for sake of throwing one and then eliminating risk by holding waiting to be separated and reengage from a distance where his speed and ring generalship favored him all over again. I personally don't think Berto is all they are making him out to be and as many of you have said, he doesn't do well against the elite. Berto at this point seems to be a HBO/ Ricardo williams type experiment (Willaim's personal issues aside) and its hard to not see someone stretch this guy with as much real estate as he leaves open down the middle.

Berto is a pure garbage. He's a paper champ... BIG TIME!

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Originally Posted by Taeth

Mosley has made a career of having no fluidity.

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And you have the nerve to call OTHER people idiots?

:rolleyes: