Yup ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamGB
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Yup ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamGB
I hear this a lot from men. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamGBIt's amazing how many women leave it till after the 'last minute' to change the mind! ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by CGM
it's no good getting fucked and then feeling guilty/a whore or what ever goes through freaks like her's heads afterwards and deciding that because you have now decided that you didn't want to that you were raped.
Hindsight seems to count for shit in life, except when women get innocent men done for rape.
Most rapes are carried out by someone a woman knows or an ex. In these cases I hear men bleat on about they didn't know she meant no, we were kissing earlier in the evening (= that means were expected to have sex). Unless there are signs of violence you can forget a conviction in most cases.....but yeah I forgot she said she liked it rough or she never protested at the time.
Stranger rape is much less common. As such conviction % is higher if they ever get caught.
The majority of women do not report being raped.
The majority of cases never make it to trial.
The majority of cases never end in a conviction.
But of course it's all just women lying because that's what we do right?
-This is not a comment on this particular case but considering the past 3 pages of misogyny I felt the need to comment -
:mad:Quote:
Originally Posted by awdleyfuturehalloffamer
How dare we have a vagina!
For the record, I haven't made any comments about woman in general, I just think that in this particular case he didn't do it.
I agree with a lot of that. There seems to be an attitude of 'Mike didn't do it, but if he did it was her fault' among some people on this thread. Now I don't think Tyson necessarily raped Desiree Washington based on the evidence, but on the other hand he certainly had a history of behaving 'inappropriately' with women, so it's not out of the question. I believe he said himself, that he had done bad things with women, but not on that occasion. I can't say whether or not he is a rapist, but its funny that I've seen some hold Ali's 'draft-dodging' over an immoral war in more serious contempt than the Mike Tyson's rape conviction :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Howlin Mad MissyI hear this a lot from men. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamGBIt's amazing how many women leave it till after the 'last minute' to change the mind! ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by CGM
it's no good getting fucked and then feeling guilty/a whore or what ever goes through freaks like her's heads afterwards and deciding that because you have now decided that you didn't want to that you were raped.
Hindsight seems to count for shit in life, except when women get innocent men done for rape.
Most rapes are carried out by someone a woman knows or an ex. In these cases I hear men bleat on about they didn't know she meant no, we were kissing earlier in the evening (= that means were expected to have sex). Unless there are signs of violence you can forget a conviction in most cases.....but yeah I forgot she said she liked it rough or she never protested at the time.
Stranger rape is much less common. As such conviction % is higher if they ever get caught.
The majority of women do not report being raped.
The majority of cases never make it to trial.
The majority of cases never end in a conviction.
But of course it's all just women lying because that's what we do right?
-This is not a comment on this particular case but considering the past 3 pages of misogyny I felt the need to comment -
Please... notice the part were I wrote innocent men? You don't need to tell me that rape actually happens and that most victims know the rapist etc... I'm aware of that. I know what goes on... both ways.Quote:
Originally Posted by Howlin Mad MissyI hear this a lot from men. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamGBIt's amazing how many women leave it till after the 'last minute' to change the mind! ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by CGM
it's no good getting fucked and then feeling guilty/a whore or what ever goes through freaks like her's heads afterwards and deciding that because you have now decided that you didn't want to that you were raped.
Hindsight seems to count for shit in life, except when women get innocent men done for rape.
The fact is - yes, of course rape happens but the reason you "hear this a lot from men :rolleyes:" is because what I have said also happens.
It's not cut and dry Missy... I'm well aware that there are lots of legitimate rape victims but I'm also aware of how easy it is for a woman to throw accusations at an innocent man as well.
Like I said, notice where I said innocent men... I'm not tarnishing all woman or all men with the same brush and I hope you don't do the same. Like it or not Missy, women can and do fuck blokes over just as much as men can.
Of course I'm making those comments with relevance to this case, so you can save the lecture... had she not been in his hotel room at 3am, taking her pants off for him etc I wouldn't be using that way of thinking towards it.
I read the book The Release of Power and in the chapter about the court case it said something like when the police got to his hotel room all they could find was 1 sequinn then when they held her dress up in court the dress was still losing sequinns it was easily over 10 year ago i read the book so dont quote me on it word for word. Also i remember reading the newspaper the Daily mirror i think it was and Miss washington said if he apoligised and compensated her she would be happy for him to come out early and get on with his life.Tyson blamed it on the fact they had to send him down as they had just let Kennedy off for same thing i feel for Tyson i really do because if he didnt do it and i dont believe he did but thats just my opinion the reason i feel for him is if he didnt do it he spent 3 years of his life a career behind bars for nothing.Don't get me wrong he was abit wild before he went to prison but nothing compared to after he came out perhaps alot of this is bitterness cos of what happened to him especially if he was innocent.An observation i made a few month back in my own mind was through his career he had a few sexual allegations including the Washington one but now he is potless and not in limelight quite as much no sex allegations funny that.
I don't think he did it, or got a fair trial.
I'm not defending him because i'm a fan. I just think when you consider all the circumstances it's unlikely it was rape.
Also he definitely was represented poorly especially considering his financial means at the time. Overall, I think Mike got raped by Don King more than I think he raped the girl that came to his room at 2am and got naked in his bed willingly.
You might be right. OJ is a case in point. That's why people have good lawyers, and jury selection consultants, etc. If Tyson was convicted cause he wasn't white, then he had a stupid lawyer.Quote:
Originally Posted by YoungbloodCorrect. No such thing as an untainted, unbiased jury. Maybe in a perfect world, but not this one in which we live.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
Yep we're all equal now. It's an attitude I hear all the time - if a woman it tough in the workplace or complains she's a bitch, a man is just doing his job.Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamGBPlease... notice the part were I wrote innocent men? You don't need to tell me that rape actually happens and that most victims know the rapist etc... I'm aware of that. I know what goes on... both ways.Quote:
Originally Posted by Howlin Mad MissyI hear this a lot from men. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamGB
The fact is - yes, of course rape happens but the reason you "hear this a lot from men :rolleyes:" is because what I have said also happens.
It's not cut and dry Missy... I'm well aware that there are lots of legitimate rape victims but I'm also aware of how easy it is for a woman to throw accusations at an innocent man as well.
Like I said, notice where I said innocent men... I'm not tarnishing all woman or all men with the same brush and I hope you don't do the same. Like it or not Missy, women can and do fuck blokes over just as much as men can.
It's an underlying hostility.
I noticed that you qualified 'innocent' men and didn't do the same for 'women'.;)
Considering one of my many fields of expertise lies in psychology - i make you right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Howlin Mad Missymost rapists do believe they've done nothing wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterConsidering one of my many fields of expertise lies in psychology - i make you right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Howlin Mad Missymost rapists do believe they've done nothing wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
:) Great news!
I've just found out I've won a date with Mike Tyson:-\
When you talk about a victim innocent is sort of a given.... ;) Didn't think I needed to differentiate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Howlin Mad MissyYep we're all equal now. It's an attitude I hear all the time - if a woman it tough in the workplace or complains she's a bitch, a man is just doing his job.Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamGBPlease... notice the part were I wrote innocent men? You don't need to tell me that rape actually happens and that most victims know the rapist etc... I'm aware of that. I know what goes on... both ways.Quote:
Originally Posted by Howlin Mad Missy
The fact is - yes, of course rape happens but the reason you "hear this a lot from men :rolleyes:" is because what I have said also happens.
It's not cut and dry Missy... I'm well aware that there are lots of legitimate rape victims but I'm also aware of how easy it is for a woman to throw accusations at an innocent man as well.
Like I said, notice where I said innocent men... I'm not tarnishing all woman or all men with the same brush and I hope you don't do the same. Like it or not Missy, women can and do fuck blokes over just as much as men can.
It's an underlying hostility.
I noticed that you qualified 'innocent' men and didn't do the same for 'women'.;)
Not the case when you're talking about the accused.
Don't know why we're now talking about office politics either... :-X :p ;)
It's to do with the attitude towards women on this thread and the venom that you wrote about, women looking to screw over innoncent men (in a tiny TINY minority), when in actual fact women get a really bad deal when it comes to rape and well, pretty much in most cases.Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamGBWhen you talk about a victim innocent is sort of a given.... ;) Didn't think I needed to differentiate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Howlin Mad MissyYep we're all equal now. It's an attitude I hear all the time - if a woman it tough in the workplace or complains she's a bitch, a man is just doing his job.Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamGB
It's an underlying hostility.
I noticed that you qualified 'innocent' men and didn't do the same for 'women'.;)
Not the case when you're talking about the accused.
Don't know why we're now talking about office politics either... :-X :p ;)
It wasn't too far up the thread where the prevailing attitude was - she went to his room, she knew what she was doing = he was entitled to sex with her.
That to me is the same as saying she wore a short skirt so it's her fault = men can't control themselves and women are to blame therefore yet again women are to blame, well cover us in a burka and join radical Islam.
Your house gets burgled it's your own fault.
You get mugged it's your own fault.
You get raped it's your own fault.
The answer is no.
Everything is politics.
No.
I do not think that he was entitled to sex with her just because... the fact that she wants to his room close to 3am and removed her pantys kind of leads me to suspect that there never was a 'no' said.
Her background (repressive and strict parents etc) and history regarding being so freaked out by losing by losing her virginity to her long term boyfriend that she tried to have him convicted of rape lead me to suspect it was more along the lines of some feeling of guilt/being used after what was no doubt not the night of passionate love making she was (for some reason) expecting. So does the fact that she waited so long to make the 911 call (I'm sure you'll say it's not but to me that's a massive red flag)
I don't recall saying that the majority of rape allegations are false... just that there are more than most people would think. I think you're possibly reading what I'm saying with more venom then is intended.
should this really be on the boxing talk forum?
Probably not, from the start it was only going to go in this direction though. ;)
Well yeah. I mean seriously. Think about it. A guy she barely met that night calls her to come to his hotel room at 2 in the morning. Common sense should of kicked in. If it wasn't for sex than what the fukk was she doing there? Did she really think Tyson only wanted to snuggle and watch TV? Even a dumb biitch would of known his true desireQuote:
Originally Posted by Howlin Mad MissyIt's to do with the attitude towards women on this thread and the venom that you wrote about, women looking to screw over innoncent men (in a tiny TINY minority), when in actual fact women get a really bad deal when it comes to rape and well, pretty much in most cases.Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamGBWhen you talk about a victim innocent is sort of a given.... ;) Didn't think I needed to differentiate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Howlin Mad Missy
Not the case when you're talking about the accused.
Don't know why we're now talking about office politics either... :-X :p ;)
It wasn't too far up the thread where the prevailing attitude was - she went to his room, she knew what she was doing = he was entitled to sex with her.
That to me is the same as saying she wore a short skirt so it's her fault = men can't control themselves and women are to blame therefore yet again women are to blame, well cover us in a burka and join radical Islam.
Your house gets burgled it's your own fault.
You get mugged it's your own fault.
You get raped it's your own fault.
The answer is no.
Everything is politics.
cmon dude. You mean to say you've never gone home with some honey for the purpose of having sex, and decided at the last minute she just didn't cut the mustard for you. Or maybe the other way around, she decided she wasn't really into you that much after all?Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseWell yeah. I mean seriously. Think about it. A guy she barely met that night calls her to come to his hotel room at 2 in the morning. Common sense should of kicked in. If it wasn't for sex than what the fukk was she doing there? Did she really think Tyson only wanted to snuggle and watch TV? Even a dumb biitch would of known his true desireQuote:
Originally Posted by Howlin Mad MissyIt's to do with the attitude towards women on this thread and the venom that you wrote about, women looking to screw over innoncent men (in a tiny TINY minority), when in actual fact women get a really bad deal when it comes to rape and well, pretty much in most cases.Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamGB
It wasn't too far up the thread where the prevailing attitude was - she went to his room, she knew what she was doing = he was entitled to sex with her.
That to me is the same as saying she wore a short skirt so it's her fault = men can't control themselves and women are to blame therefore yet again women are to blame, well cover us in a burka and join radical Islam.
Your house gets burgled it's your own fault.
You get mugged it's your own fault.
You get raped it's your own fault.
The answer is no.
Everything is politics.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Howlin Mad Missy:mad:Quote:
Originally Posted by awdleyfuturehalloffamer
How dare we have a vagina!
How dare a woman have to use common sense and act appropriately and take responsibility for her own decisions and actions. She is partially to blame. Her own inept decisions led to this. Nobody is absolving tyson if he did it, but no one should overlook her part in the chain of events. If she had any sense she would have never went over to tyson's hotel room. She made a bad decision and paid the piper.
Missed this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Howlin Mad Missy(in a tiny TINY minority)Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamGBWhen you talk about a victim innocent is sort of a given.... ;) Didn't think I needed to differentiate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Howlin Mad Missy
Not the case when you're talking about the accused.
Don't know why we're now talking about office politics either... :-X :p ;)
Missy it varys from culture, area and population but a lot of credible studies have shown it (in some, not all cases of course) to be nearing 50% in some populations, the range of these studies' results is roughly between 10-45%, hardly a tiny TINY minority. Some figures point to a mean of 41% but I suspect that is VERY unconservative analysis of the various studys, I doubt it's commonly as high as that everywhere you go.
2% is a figure thrown around by a lot of feminists but there is a wealth of evidence, DNA tests etc that point to the contrary. Of course false cases are not at all a majority but they are more common than the general public know and some people would like to admit.
My intent in saying this is not to discredit women or belittle rape, I am simply pointing out that it is very possible for a rape allegation to be false and whilst I certainatly don't believe that the majority of rape cases are false, more of them than most women will be willing to admit to are.
There are lots of motives... Revenge, Alibys, Money, custody... I'm not just saying it's some physco thing! ;)
The only reason I said anything about the amount of false allugations was to support my opinion with relevance to this incident (which was the purpose of the original post) and show that it is VERY posible that this is the case though the extent of false allegations is unknown to most. I am not claiming to know (only the two of them do) what happened but the OP asked for my opinion about it and that's what he got.
It's not the I think that going to his hotel at 3am counted as consent... it's that everything that surrounding it stinks to me.
And of course Tyson was no Angel, he's mistreated a lot of women, I just don't believe in this case he did anything wrong.
And please don't make assumptions about my attitude towards woman/compare me to a radical muslim! o_0 ;) I respect all women as equals and deeply love and care for the woman in my life but I try to look at issues as a realist and at the bigger picture, not at any one side.
AdamGB, I went back through this thread, and nowhere have you actually provided any kind of support for your position that would amount to a hill of beans in any court of law.
So fine, if it's just your opinion, then ok. But the fact is if any defense lawyer tried to make the sort of arguments that are being made here in this thread, the judge would probably send him/her back to law school.
Which is what they should have done to the lawyer they had defending Tyson.
You're right, it's just my opinion... what type of discussions would we have if people just gave their absolute opinion and didn't provide the reasons that made them arrive at that opinion? :)
I didn't say that I had passed the bar or that you could get my posts and send them to court or anything.
This is a web forum, not a court of Law, and as I have said in my other posts, it is just my opinion regarding this situation... the OP asked for it and the OP got it.
Watched the Bio channel on Tyson last night and it mentioned that a few of the other girls in that beauty contest sued him over molestation backstage during the pageant and some had gone to the organizer of the contest over his handeling of them too. The promoter also sued him on behalf.
Dont think Mike actually knew how to treat women any different,as Burt said noone had ever, in the pastmade him accountable for his actions until that moment in time. Think he got dumb and things got timley with that one who followed him up to his room though.
It's happened before. Like 3 or 4 times. When it does I just have them perform oral sex and sent them on there wayQuote:
Originally Posted by CGMcmon dude. You mean to say you've never gone home with some honey for the purpose of having sex, and decided at the last minute she just didn't cut the mustard for you. Or maybe the other way around, she decided she wasn't really into you that much after all?Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseWell yeah. I mean seriously. Think about it. A guy she barely met that night calls her to come to his hotel room at 2 in the morning. Common sense should of kicked in. If it wasn't for sex than what the fukk was she doing there? Did she really think Tyson only wanted to snuggle and watch TV? Even a dumb biitch would of known his true desireQuote:
Originally Posted by Howlin Mad Missy
It's not the same situation. She was around him all night. She knew than if "he cut the mustard" for her or not. Even after he called her, I'm sure she thought things over. And still decided to go.
I believe Tyson DID NOT rape that dog, I have the recent Tyson movie/doc and the way he talks about that "swine" rat, cockroach you can just tell she lied through her dirty mouth.
But I didn't need to watch the film to be convinced, I felt that way from the outset, Tyson's comments just re-inforced what I believe.
I wonder what that tramp dog is doing now, anybody know?
Desiree Washington went to Mike Tyson's room early in the morning to recite poetry by T.S. Elliott and asked what Mike thought of Ernest Hemingway's the Old Man by The Sea.
I mean usually don't women just stroll up to another man's room without knowing them that well early in the morning to discuss poetry and literature?
;D
I am not a Mike Tyson fan but I am a boxing fan but truth be known, you can't help but like Mike or feel sorry for him which he doesn't need to move on so did anyone remember that Ms. Washington was smiling and dancing on stage the next day after she voluntarily left Mike's room admitting at one point that she was pissed about his not walking her down to the limo? No rape victim puts on a show like that the day after someone tears their dignity to shreds, Mike may not be the nicest guy in the world before coffee but a rapist? Come on, where was the evidence and when did she get examined and how come everyone knew she lied and hung Tyson out to dry in the BIble belt? Everyone deserves a fair trial in our system but something stinks and it sin't sulphur. I don't wnat to be crass but maybe Mike wasn't enthused and she was the poster child for vanity. One other theory that doesn't fit here but someone actually told the truth but the court system had people that craved notariaty. Oh how freakin vain! Trust me on this one, I worked around people that were accused like him.
I don't disagree, this is a web forum about boxing, anyone can offer an opinion. not all opinions are supportable though.Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamGB
And if they don't want to, then please tell me you know there's not much you can do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseIt's happened before. Like 3 or 4 times. When it does I just have them perform oral sex and sent them on there wayQuote:
Originally Posted by CGMcmon dude. You mean to say you've never gone home with some honey for the purpose of having sex, and decided at the last minute she just didn't cut the mustard for you. Or maybe the other way around, she decided she wasn't really into you that much after all?Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise
It's not the same situation. She was around him all night. She knew than if "he cut the mustard" for her or not. Even after he called her, I'm sure she thought things over. And still decided to go.
Sure it's the same situation. She has the right to change her mind once they get up to the room. And Tyson has better listen if he wants to stay a free man. I'm not saying this is what happened, just describing a possible scenario by which he could be found guilty given the evidence.