Froch is the favourite for Super Six Tournament

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Originally Posted by skel1983

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

To be honest, you could even make a case that Jean Pascal is a better opponent than most of them have faced.

Is Mundine, or an old Beyer better than Pascal? I don't know?

Is Mundine even a world champion? I think he's only ever held a title when Kessler has been promoted to super champ, not sure he's actually won a real belt.

Pascal has go to be on the same level as Miranda, considering he's a legit 175 light heavyweight world champ now and Miranda never won a world title at all.

No question Froch has the best resume going into this, at least as far as recent form goes.


Will that mean anything when the tournament starts, we'll have to wait and see.

Certainly only Kessler and Froch have beaten any world champs. Ward, Dirrell, Abraham have never faced another world champ past, present or futue I don't believe.

Taylor has, but Froch ko'd him hence his status as favourite.

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Kessler's onesided win over Librado Andrade was better than Froch's lucky KO over Taylor, for one it was against a fighter who was an established Super Middleweight, and secondly he dominated from start to finish, not get horribly outboxed for the first 8 to 9 rounds then get a lucky ko in the 12th

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How was it lucky?? It was very close on the scorecards, do you not think Frochs gameplan was to bring the heat in the last third of the fight as he new what Taylor was like? To call it lucky is pathetic mate, you also forgot to mention he beat the current WBC 175 lb champ, personally Froch imo is probably second fav behind Kessler as like others said he has proven against two world class fighters and beat them the two younger Americans have basically done nothing and were still unsure how they will be when they step it in at world level.

Kessler
Froch
Abraham
Taylor
Ward
Dirrell

Is about right with what they have all done so far in there career.

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I wouldn't call the KO of Taylor luck at all. Froch was definitely starting to land more in the later rounds, and watching the fight i knew that Taylor had to run and survive the last round, or two, to win the fight.. and Froch didn't allow him to do that.. It wasn't one lucky shot or anything.

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Originally Posted by Jimboogie

I actually think it was a bad move for Abraham, siging up for this.

Kessler will win it in style :cool:

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Totally agree. Kessler is the man to beat for me. He has experience, all round decent skills and a good boxing brain. Only Calzaghe could beat him the way he did.

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Originally Posted by BIG H

Carl Froch7/4
Mikkel Kessler11/4
Arthur Abraham7/2
Jermain Taylor5/1
Andre Ward10/1
Andre Dirrell14/1


I think Taylor is the only one that CAN'T win it!!

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With me being british im going with Froch,but i will have a few ££s on Abraham,he's at great odds,he's tough as old boots,for me he's the hardest out them all!!

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Originally Posted by RP33

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Originally Posted by BIG H

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Originally Posted by RP33

Taylor had Froch (the favorite) BEAT if he lasted another 12 seconds.. how can you say he "CAN'T" win it? Seems crazy to me.

TBH i see Kessler and Abraham as the favorites. I don't see Froch beating Kess and i think Abraham has a safer style for the rest of the fighters. Abraham Froch would be a HELL of a fight.

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Well if Taylor hd've lasted 12 more seconds (which is completely irrelevant coz he didn't and he got KTFO) I would've given a 10-7 round to Froch and scored it a draw ;)

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actually what is "completely irrelevant" is the fact that he got KO'd.. Also what is irrelevant is your scorecard.

what IS relevant is that Taylor would have won on the score cards if he didn't get KO'd. This isn't about the outcome of the fight, it's about the actual fight. I don't care who actually won, but i'm using this fight as a reference to the upcoming fights, and if Froch is the favorite, then i don't see how Taylor, who took him to the last round, winning on the cards, "CAN'T" win the tournament. It's actually a ludicrous statement.

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I didn't say "he can't win" I said..........

"I think Taylor is the only one that CAN'T win it!!

It is a an opinion ;)

Saying that it is irrelevant that he got KTFO, now that really is a ludicrous statement ;)

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Originally Posted by BIG H

Saying that it is irrelevant that he got KTFO, now that really is a ludicrous statement ;)

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it's not at all.. you have to add the "blah blah blah He got KTFO so who cares if he was ahead on the cards" bit because you're a Froch fan.

That's fine... but i could careless about the outcome of the fight when talking about who has a good chance/who doesn't have a good chance to win this tournament.

Froch could have pulled his trunks down and took a shit on Taylors face for all i care after the 11th round.. Fact is that he was BEATING Froch decisively, and to say that he can't win is ridiculous considering Froch is the betting favorite and he gave him a hell of a fight and was about to win.

LOL.. and saying that "YOU THINK" he can't win, and "he can't win" is the same thing. OBVIOUSLY, YOU THINK he can't win because you're posting it, under your username, "BIG H". and that is your opinion... there is no difference between the two.. unless you're assuming that some of us on the board can see into the future and don't have to speculate about fights. "I THINK" is a god damned GIVEN before reading any post.

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Originally Posted by RP33

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Originally Posted by BIG H

Saying that it is irrelevant that he got KTFO, now that really is a ludicrous statement ;)

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it's not at all.. you have to add the "blah blah blah He got KTFO so who cares if he was ahead on the cards" bit because you're a Froch fan.

That's fine... but i could careless about the outcome of the fight when talking about who has a good chance/who doesn't have a good chance to win this tournament.

Froch could have pulled his trunks down and took a shit on Taylors face for all i care after the 11th round.. Fact is that he was BEATING Froch decisively, and to say that he can't win is ridiculous considering Froch is the betting favorite and he gave him a hell of a fight and was about to win.

LOL.. and saying that "YOU THINK" he can't win, and "he can't win" is the same thing. OBVIOUSLY, YOU THINK he can't win because you're posting it, under your username, "BIG H". and that is your opinion... there is no difference between the two.. unless you're assuming that some of us on the board can see into the future and don't have to speculate about fights. "I THINK" is a god damned GIVEN before reading any post.

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Don't make assumptions mate, I'm not a Froch fan, never have been and have always criticized him on here and anywhere else.

Taylor lost the fight becuase he 'gassed' he cannot fight for 12 rounds at pace, which is why how well he was doing early in the fight (i.e rounds 1 -8 isn't relevant if he is going to gas after tha point and then be vunerable to a KO which her clearly was. I may be able to beat you in a 10 yard sprint it doesn't mean I can beat you over 100 metres.

You do get a bit animated don't you ;D I can have an opinion without being called ridiculous. If Taylor wins I will admit to my ridiculous statement - wouldn't count on it happening though ;)

Anybody know the Vegas odds? I'm guessing Froch won't be favourite over there.

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Originally Posted by BIG H

Don't make assumptions mate, I'm not a Froch fan, never have been and have always criticized him on here and anywhere else.

Taylor lost the fight becuase he 'gassed' he cannot fight for 12 rounds at pace, which is why how well he was doing early in the fight (i.e rounds 1 -8 isn't relevant if he is going to gas after tha point and then be vunerable to a KO which her clearly was. I may be able to beat you in a 10 yard sprint it doesn't mean I can beat you over 100 metres.

You do get a bit animated don't you ;D I can have an opinion without being called ridiculous. If Taylor wins I will admit to my ridiculous statement - wouldn't count on it happening though ;)

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He does always fade towards the end of the fight but if he can stay out of danger and not get KO'd, he's fine. He was up FOUR rounds on two judges score cards going into the 12th round of the Froch fight. He didn't even have to land a punch, just not get KO'd, and well, he obviously didn't succeed. The fact that Taylor didn't even have to be effective in the 11th or 12th round to win the fight on the cards is good enough reason for me to prove that he can beat any of the other 5 fighters.. even with his late round weaknesses... that's all i'm saying..

I got it:

Kessler
Froch
Taylor
Abraham
Ward
Dirrell

In that order.

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Originally Posted by RP33

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Originally Posted by BIG H

Don't make assumptions mate, I'm not a Froch fan, never have been and have always criticized him on here and anywhere else.

Taylor lost the fight becuase he 'gassed' he cannot fight for 12 rounds at pace, which is why how well he was doing early in the fight (i.e rounds 1 -8 isn't relevant if he is going to gas after tha point and then be vunerable to a KO which her clearly was. I may be able to beat you in a 10 yard sprint it doesn't mean I can beat you over 100 metres.

You do get a bit animated don't you ;D I can have an opinion without being called ridiculous. If Taylor wins I will admit to my ridiculous statement - wouldn't count on it happening though ;)

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He does always fade towards the end of the fight but if he can stay out of danger and not get KO'd, he's fine. He was up FOUR rounds on two judges score cards going into the 12th round of the Froch fight. He didn't even have to land a punch, just not get KO'd, and well, he obviously didn't succeed. The fact that Taylor didn't even have to be effective in the 11th or 12th round to win the fight on the cards is good enough reason for me to prove that he can beat any of the other 5 fighters.. even with his late round weaknesses... that's all i'm saying..

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I can see what your both saying. Taylor certainly has the skills and pedigree to give any individual opponent in this tournament huge problems, and a win over any of these fighters individually, even Kessler or Abraham would only be a mild upset imo.

What I think H is saying is that the possibility of Taylor making it through the entire tournament without a train wreck happening is extremely unlikely.

Can he outbox Kessler over 12 rounds, and hold on to win a decision, possibly.

Can he avoid Abraham's power shots and stand up to the hardest hitting puncher in the tournament, possibly.

Is he likely to be able to get through 5 consecutive fights, against Abraham, Kessler, Froch, Ward and Direll without at least once being caught and brutally finished?

Let's just say I wouldn't be putting much money on that bet.........

I just can't see how a guy who was beaten from pillar to post for much of an entire fight be the favorite. Froch is tough but he is glorified amatuer fighter. I think he could possibly loose to everyone he fight's in this tournament to be honest. Depending on Dirrell's and Ward's chin. I think another run at JT he will lose also Kessler and AA.

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Originally Posted by The Fightfan

I just can't see how a guy who was beaten from pillar to post for much of an entire fight be the favorite. Froch is tough but he is glorified amatuer fighter. I think he could possibly loose to everyone he fight's in this tournament to be honest. Depending on Dirrell's and Ward's chin. I think another run at JT he will lose also Kessler and AA.

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That was enlightening..

Maybe i'm not crazy??

Kessler is the absolute favorite IMO.. I have seen limited footage from the Andre's, so i can't speak too much to them, but JT, AA, and Froch are all pretty vulnerable to be beaten, but they all lose to Kessler.

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Originally Posted by RP33

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Originally Posted by BIG H

Don't make assumptions mate, I'm not a Froch fan, never have been and have always criticized him on here and anywhere else.

Taylor lost the fight becuase he 'gassed' he cannot fight for 12 rounds at pace, which is why how well he was doing early in the fight (i.e rounds 1 -8 isn't relevant if he is going to gas after tha point and then be vunerable to a KO which her clearly was. I may be able to beat you in a 10 yard sprint it doesn't mean I can beat you over 100 metres.

You do get a bit animated don't you ;D I can have an opinion without being called ridiculous. If Taylor wins I will admit to my ridiculous statement - wouldn't count on it happening though ;)

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He does always fade towards the end of the fight but if he can stay out of danger and not get KO'd, he's fine. He was up FOUR rounds on two judges score cards going into the 12th round of the Froch fight. He didn't even have to land a punch, just not get KO'd, and well, he obviously didn't succeed. The fact that Taylor didn't even have to be effective in the 11th or 12th round to win the fight on the cards is good enough reason for me to prove that he can beat any of the other 5 fighters.. even with his late round weaknesses... that's all i'm saying..

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Fair enough fella :)

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Originally Posted by The Fightfan

I just can't see how a guy who was beaten from pillar to post for much of an entire fight be the favorite. Froch is tough but he is glorified amatuer fighter. I think he could possibly loose to everyone he fight's in this tournament to be honest. Depending on Dirrell's and Ward's chin. I think another run at JT he will lose also Kessler and AA.

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The thing is Froch was an excellent amateur and always looked destined for great things. He medalled at the world amatuers and won 2 aba titles and finished at something like 90 -8 (although that is not official!)As a pro he has picked up bad habits and WILL get KTFO when he fights a big puncher, coz his defence is horrendous and he has relied too much on his chin (which has now been shown not to be invincible after being Knocked down by Jermaine 'Best and nicest intentions' Taylor ;D)

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Originally Posted by The Fightfan

I just can't see how a guy who was beaten from pillar to post for much of an entire fight be the favorite. Froch is tough but he is glorified amatuer fighter. I think he could possibly loose to everyone he fight's in this tournament to be honest. Depending on Dirrell's and Ward's chin. I think another run at JT he will lose also Kessler and AA.

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It was really only the first four rounds of his fight with Taylor that he got outclassed, after that it was a dead even fight as evidenced by RP33's statement that going into the final round he trailed by 4 points on 2 cards and was ahead on the other.

Take away rounds 1-4 and he was equal to Taylor over the rest of the fight.

He was slow to adapt, he'd never been in with anyone as fast or slick as Taylor and Taylor was in awesome form offensively in that fight.

Remember even Calzaghe was floored by both Hopkins and Jones in his big American fights, Hatton has been spectacularly KO'd embarassingly when he stepped up to the highest level on the American stage, Lewis twice got sparked, David Haye had to pick himself up off the floor to beat Mormeck in his home country.

What I'm saying is that stepping up in class, travelling to a foreign country isn't easy. Many collapse under the bright lights, but Froch despite clearly being out of his depth early was able to muster the will and the self belief to get himself back into the fight. That is what being a world champion is all about, Kessler couldn't do it against Joe, he faded down the stretch as Joe increasingly exerted his will on him.

Froch has beaten, not one, but two world champion calibre fighters back to back. He absolutely deserves to be considered one of the favourites going in.

Yes he can be outboxed and hit, but we know two things about Froch that we don't know about most of the others, firstly, he has an iron will, unshakeble self belief even under the most intense pressure, and a tremendous ability to withstand punishment, secondly we know he has the power, and the finishing skills to end any fight he is in, even against world championship calibre fighters.

We don't know any of these traits with the two Andre's yet, Taylor has big question marks, and Abraham hasn't got a win on his record bigger than either Pascal or Jermain Taylor, and he's never fought a genuine super middleweight.

Only Kessler really has proven credentials at this weight, a bona fida double world champion and so justifiably imo Kessler and Froch start favourites.

Neither Froch or Taylor are winning this thing. Carry on.

I don't think ;D

And ffs it pains me to even come close to defending somebody who regularly says something as stupid as "I'm going to smoke his boots" but Froch's win wasn't lucky and he wasn't getting beaten pillar to post. He was behind in rounds but Taylor was wilting under his pressure and there's no such thing as a lucky KO if a guy has gradually deteriorated because pressure bothers him.

Yeah but that 12th round did come a bit out of nowhere imo, at least it id the only time I watched the fight. I have never been impressed with Froch and frankly, I don't think there is any way Froch wins. Taylor won't win either imo but could have more success as apparently he drew Abraham and Ward.

Taylor could beat Abraham and Froch could beat Dirrell. I don't think Froch beats Direll and I bet afrter that fight, all the people who have Froch at no. 1 or 2 on their list will have Dirrell at 1 or 2. Bilbo would pretty much be obligated to have him there. Taylor has a great shot at beating Abraham imo just on activity. I agree with Bilbo in Abraham being the guy who's definietly set up to be the biggest disappointment of the Super 6.

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Originally Posted by The Fightfan

I just can't see how a guy who was beaten from pillar to post for much of an entire fight be the favorite. Froch is tough but he is glorified amatuer fighter. I think he could possibly loose to everyone he fight's in this tournament to be honest. Depending on Dirrell's and Ward's chin. I think another run at JT he will lose also Kessler and AA.

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Beaton from pillar to post ?? What fight were you watching mate, you Americans sometimes are biased as fuck and seem to find it hard to give any fighter not from your shores any fucking credit, Froch was always in the fight, a beating from Pillar to post i would say is similar to a Calzaghe-Lacy fight or Hopkins-Pavlik fight, Froch-Taylor not a fucking chance.

I had Taylor up 6-3 after 9, if the fight had finished i had Taylor winning by one fucking point.

"Lucky punch" is the most utterly ridiculous notion in boxing.

The object is to punch. That is an undisputable fact. Fact.

How can any punching action possibly be deemed lucky?

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by The Fightfan

I just can't see how a guy who was beaten from pillar to post for much of an entire fight be the favorite. Froch is tough but he is glorified amatuer fighter. I think he could possibly loose to everyone he fight's in this tournament to be honest. Depending on Dirrell's and Ward's chin. I think another run at JT he will lose also Kessler and AA.

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It was really only the first four rounds of his fight with Taylor that he got outclassed, after that it was a dead even fight as evidenced by RP33's statement that going into the final round he trailed by 4 points on 2 cards and was ahead on the other.

Take away rounds 1-4 and he was equal to Taylor over the rest of the fight.

He was slow to adapt, he'd never been in with anyone as fast or slick as Taylor and Taylor was in awesome form offensively in that fight.

Remember even Calzaghe was floored by both Hopkins and Jones in his big American fights, Hatton has been spectacularly KO'd embarassingly when he stepped up to the highest level on the American stage, Lewis twice got sparked, David Haye had to pick himself up off the floor to beat Mormeck in his home country.

What I'm saying is that stepping up in class, travelling to a foreign country isn't easy. Many collapse under the bright lights, but Froch despite clearly being out of his depth early was able to muster the will and the self belief to get himself back into the fight. That is what being a world champion is all about, Kessler couldn't do it against Joe, he faded down the stretch as Joe increasingly exerted his will on him.

Froch has beaten, not one, but two world champion calibre fighters back to back. He absolutely deserves to be considered one of the favourites going in.

Yes he can be outboxed and hit, but we know two things about Froch that we don't know about most of the others, firstly, he has an iron will, unshakeble self belief even under the most intense pressure, and a tremendous ability to withstand punishment, secondly we know he has the power, and the finishing skills to end any fight he is in, even against world championship calibre fighters.

We don't know any of these traits with the two Andre's yet, Taylor has big question marks, and Abraham hasn't got a win on his record bigger than either Pascal or Jermain Taylor, and he's never fought a genuine super middleweight.

Only Kessler really has proven credentials at this weight, a bona fida double world champion and so justifiably imo Kessler and Froch start favourites.

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If I was going to choose a favourite, it would be Kessler. I am a Froch fan but in his last two fights he has come out slower than usual. I think its down to nerves. A title fight and then a defence of a title against someone like Jermain Taylor.

His next fight against Dirrell may be dangerous for him. A young slick fit undefeted fighter. If Froch fights like his last two fights (starting off too slow) I think he will loose on points.

I believe the best fights will be between Froch, Abraham and Kessler. Kessler may be the only one out of the three to loose a fight but that was to Calzaghe. I dont think Froch or Abraham would have a chance against Calzaghe.

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Originally Posted by yvonne

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Originally Posted by BIG H

Carl Froch7/4
Mikkel Kessler11/4
Arthur Abraham7/2
Jermain Taylor5/1
Andre Ward10/1
Andre Dirrell14/1


I think Taylor is the only one that CAN'T win it!!

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With me being british im going with Froch,but i will have a few ££s on Abraham,he's at great odds,he's tough as old boots,for me he's the hardest out them all!!

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See, i'm a big Joe C fan...however Froch's continous insulting of him has taken away any incentive I had to root for him

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Originally Posted by Snakefist Ar Fu

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by The Fightfan

I just can't see how a guy who was beaten from pillar to post for much of an entire fight be the favorite. Froch is tough but he is glorified amatuer fighter. I think he could possibly loose to everyone he fight's in this tournament to be honest. Depending on Dirrell's and Ward's chin. I think another run at JT he will lose also Kessler and AA.

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It was really only the first four rounds of his fight with Taylor that he got outclassed, after that it was a dead even fight as evidenced by RP33's statement that going into the final round he trailed by 4 points on 2 cards and was ahead on the other.

Take away rounds 1-4 and he was equal to Taylor over the rest of the fight.

He was slow to adapt, he'd never been in with anyone as fast or slick as Taylor and Taylor was in awesome form offensively in that fight.

Remember even Calzaghe was floored by both Hopkins and Jones in his big American fights, Hatton has been spectacularly KO'd embarassingly when he stepped up to the highest level on the American stage, Lewis twice got sparked, David Haye had to pick himself up off the floor to beat Mormeck in his home country.

What I'm saying is that stepping up in class, travelling to a foreign country isn't easy. Many collapse under the bright lights, but Froch despite clearly being out of his depth early was able to muster the will and the self belief to get himself back into the fight. That is what being a world champion is all about, Kessler couldn't do it against Joe, he faded down the stretch as Joe increasingly exerted his will on him.

Froch has beaten, not one, but two world champion calibre fighters back to back. He absolutely deserves to be considered one of the favourites going in.

Yes he can be outboxed and hit, but we know two things about Froch that we don't know about most of the others, firstly, he has an iron will, unshakeble self belief even under the most intense pressure, and a tremendous ability to withstand punishment, secondly we know he has the power, and the finishing skills to end any fight he is in, even against world championship calibre fighters.

We don't know any of these traits with the two Andre's yet, Taylor has big question marks, and Abraham hasn't got a win on his record bigger than either Pascal or Jermain Taylor, and he's never fought a genuine super middleweight.

Only Kessler really has proven credentials at this weight, a bona fida double world champion and so justifiably imo Kessler and Froch start favourites.

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If I was going to choose a favourite, it would be Kessler. I am a Froch fan but in his last two fights he has come out slower than usual. I think its down to nerves. A title fight and then a defence of a title against someone like Jermain Taylor.

His next fight against Dirrell may be dangerous for him. A young slick fit undefeted fighter. If Froch fights like his last two fights (starting off too slow) I think he will loose on points.

I believe the best fights will be between Froch, Abraham and Kessler. Kessler may be the only one out of the three to loose a fight but that was to Calzaghe. I dont think Froch or Abraham would have a chance against Calzaghe.

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Yeah me too, if I had to pick anyone I'd go with Kessler, I mean he's the one guy you know will do well, even if he doesn't win it.

The other guys we don't really know.

Froch, has the power and the proven ability to win at this level, but is wide open and could easily get caught cold or outboxed.

Abraha, never fought at this weight, never fought at this level. Miranda aside there are no impressive names on his resume. Starts slow and relies on being more powerful than his opposition. I wouldn't count on the likes of Froch, Kessler, Ward etc to wilt under his late round pressure like the largely Eastern European club fighters he's been beating. If they don't he could easily get outpointed. I think he has stamina issues as well, not in a Taylor way, but more in an Oscar way. I can see him fading late on in fights against some of these guys.

Taylor, tremendous skill but could be one punch away from oblivion.

Ward, looked great in beating Miranda, although seems to have no pop, we don't know how he will cope in this class though.

Dirrell, very likeable and confident guy, has the charisma to be a star, but a complete unknown quantity. He may turn out to be great, in which case he could win it all, but at the same time his chin may get exposed, he may have a heart like Victor Ortiz etc, we simply don't know at this juncture.


So there we have it, all of them could potentially win the whole thing imo, but equally Kessler aside, any of the other five could all fall completely flat and be outclassed here.

Kessler I think everyone agrees will likely be there or thereabouts so is the best bet.

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Originally Posted by skel1983

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Originally Posted by The Fightfan

I just can't see how a guy who was beaten from pillar to post for much of an entire fight be the favorite. Froch is tough but he is glorified amatuer fighter. I think he could possibly loose to everyone he fight's in this tournament to be honest. Depending on Dirrell's and Ward's chin. I think another run at JT he will lose also Kessler and AA.

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Beaton from pillar to post ?? What fight were you watching mate, you Americans sometimes are biased as fuck and seem to find it hard to give any fighter not from your shores any fucking credit, Froch was always in the fight, a beating from Pillar to post i would say is similar to a Calzaghe-Lacy fight or Hopkins-Pavlik fight, Froch-Taylor not a fucking chance.

I had Taylor up 6-3 after 9, if the fight had finished i had Taylor winning by one fucking point.

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I strongly disagree with that, Americans are no more biased than any other group of people or nationality in my experience. People may not be sold on certain fighters who they have limited exposure to, but I have yet to find a nationality/ethnic group who are more biased that any others on here.

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Originally Posted by CFH

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Originally Posted by skel1983

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Originally Posted by The Fightfan

I just can't see how a guy who was beaten from pillar to post for much of an entire fight be the favorite. Froch is tough but he is glorified amatuer fighter. I think he could possibly loose to everyone he fight's in this tournament to be honest. Depending on Dirrell's and Ward's chin. I think another run at JT he will lose also Kessler and AA.

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Beaton from pillar to post ?? What fight were you watching mate, you Americans sometimes are biased as fuck and seem to find it hard to give any fighter not from your shores any fucking credit, Froch was always in the fight, a beating from Pillar to post i would say is similar to a Calzaghe-Lacy fight or Hopkins-Pavlik fight, Froch-Taylor not a fucking chance.

I had Taylor up 6-3 after 9, if the fight had finished i had Taylor winning by one fucking point.

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I strongly disagree with that, Americans are no more biased than any other group of people or nationality in my experience. People may not be sold on certain fighters who they have limited exposure to, but I have yet to find a nationality/ethnic group who are more biased that any others on here.

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Filipino's?

Not true just some Filipinos are ignorant and just follow Pacquiao and the other Filipino fighters which makes them seem ignorant. Filipinos who are actual fight fans aren't so bad. Just like I'm sure Cycling fans feel Americans are stupid because of their tunnel vision.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by CFH

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Originally Posted by skel1983

Beaton from pillar to post ?? What fight were you watching mate, you Americans sometimes are biased as fuck and seem to find it hard to give any fighter not from your shores any fucking credit, Froch was always in the fight, a beating from Pillar to post i would say is similar to a Calzaghe-Lacy fight or Hopkins-Pavlik fight, Froch-Taylor not a fucking chance.

I had Taylor up 6-3 after 9, if the fight had finished i had Taylor winning by one fucking point.

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I strongly disagree with that, Americans are no more biased than any other group of people or nationality in my experience. People may not be sold on certain fighters who they have limited exposure to, but I have yet to find a nationality/ethnic group who are more biased that any others on here.

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Filipino's?

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There are rabid, fanboy Filipino's (as with any other group) and there are more reasonable legitimate Filipino fans (as with any other group). The only reason there seems to be so many of them is because of the disproportionate popularity of Manny Pacquiao in regards to other fighters. The same thing has happened with fighters of other nationalities in the recent past (*cough* Hatton *cough*).

On the whole, Filipino's fight fans are no different than any other group of fight fans.

I'm American and I started watching Joe C when I was in HS when he beat Eubank. I always loved to watch the fights in Ireland with my grand dad. Some Americans are but REAL fight fans aren't. I just think most Americans don't know much about boxing anymore. Those who are into it are a minority of what they were even in the 80's!

i didn't say that it was some lucky punch, but Froch was lucky that Taylor's stamina was shit, cause had it been against anyone else that could go the full 12 without looking like they just went through a marathon, Taylor's stamina is a joke, but he was DOMINATING Froch, anyone who tries to deny that is simply blind, and going into the 12th don't really see how it could of been that close, i had Taylor winning the first 8 straight plus a KD, it was a bit back and forth from the 9th to the 10th, i personally had Froch winning the three rounds, and then it ended in the 12th, so the score was something like 107-101 for Taylor, so wasn't really that close going into the final round, props to Froch to capitalize on Taylors weak stamina and getting the KO, but it doesn't erase the FACT that he was getting horribly outboxed and got dropped, he's hardly unbeatable or the best fighter in the tournament by default

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

i didn't say that it was some lucky punch, but Froch was lucky that Taylor's stamina was shit, cause had it been against anyone else that could go the full 12 without looking like they just went through a marathon, Taylor's stamina is a joke, but he was DOMINATING Froch, anyone who tries to deny that is simply blind, and going into the 12th don't really see how it could of been that close, i had Taylor winning the first 8 straight plus a KD, it was a bit back and forth from the 9th to the 10th, i personally had Froch winning the three rounds, and then it ended in the 12th, so the score was something like 107-101 for Taylor, so wasn't really that close going into the final round, props to Froch to capitalize on Taylors weak stamina and getting the KO, but it doesn't erase the FACT that he was getting horribly outboxed and got dropped, he's hardly unbeatable or the best fighter in the tournament by default

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In what rounds? The first 3 or 4 I agree but after that it was dead even fight.

Froch lost all the first 4 rounds, one by 10-8 yet was only four rounds down going into the final round on the official and most people's scorecards. The commentators and some at ringside had it much closer some thinking Froch might already be level, maybe even ahead going into the last round, not saying I agree with them.

But he clearly wasn't dominated for the entire fight.

Had Taylor survived to the bell Froch would have lost a split decision by a single point on the official cards I believe, hardly a domination.

He was no more dominated than the great J C Chavez was in his first fight with Meldrick Taylor, and Chavez dominated him the rematch.

He won the fight, not as a result of a lucky punch, or Taylor suddenly gassing in an instant but because of the intense round by round pressure and aggression he put on Taylor for the whole fight.

It was a sloppy start but he recovered to win a great fight.

And his performance over Pascal, who is now a bona fida 175 lb champ was maybe even better.

He's a warrior, not hard to hit, not the fastest, but he will stand and bang with these guys and make for some great figts.

His last two fights have been crazy entertaing, I expect the Dirrell fight to be no different. If Dirrell is to beat him he will have to go through the fire to do it because Froch will most definitely test his chin, heart and courage.

Froch is a bit overrated in my mind. He was losing a close fight with Taylor and JT also put Froch on his backside, and Taylor is a natural Middleweight and was never considered a big puncher. Froch is very funny and has massive heart, but I believe he lacks the skills to win this tourney.

Kessler is a solid pick. This is his natural weight and has established himself and his only loss is to the great Joe Calzaghe.

Abraham is kind of tricky, he doesn't have any flaws in his game and has only fought at 168 once (against Miranda) and he looked good. Tough to really say how he will do, but I think he will go far.

Ward is a good pick with his odds. Tough to go against the Son of God he has good skills and he is a natural SMW. He has fought some stiff competition on his way up so he is somewhat battle tested.

Dirrell is kind of a darkhorse. He is green, but he does have good skills that might take him far, but he will be going into deep deep waters for the first time in his career.

I don't see Taylor doing much in this tourney. He's been through his fare share of wars and he might be near shot now. That Froch loss must have taken a lot out of him and I can't see him getting pass the first round.

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Originally Posted by TheDemolitionDan

Froch is a bit overrated in my mind. He was losing a close fight with Taylor and JT also put Froch on his backside, and Taylor is a natural Middleweight and was never considered a big puncher. Froch is very funny and has massive heart, but I believe he lacks the skills to win this tourney.

Kessler is a solid pick. This is his natural weight and has established himself and his only loss is to the great Joe Calzaghe.

Abraham is kind of tricky, he doesn't have any flaws in his game and has only fought at 168 once (against Miranda) and he looked good. Tough to really say how he will do, but I think he will go far.

Ward is a good pick with his odds. Tough to go against the Son of God he has good skills and he is a natural SMW. He has fought some stiff competition on his way up so he is somewhat battle tested.

Dirrell is kind of a darkhorse. He is green, but he does have good skills that might take him far, but he will be going into deep deep waters for the first time in his career.

I don't see Taylor doing much in this tourney. He's been through his fare share of wars and he might be near shot now. That Froch loss must have taken a lot out of him and I can't see him getting pass the first round.

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I hardly see how he is overatted, apart from me and Tam Seddon everybody seems to think he's losing to whoever he fights next.

He hasn't got anything like the credit he deserves and in Britain he's still an absolute unknown thanks to zero television coverage of his huge fight with Taylor.

He's underrated, everybody hates on him.

If was doing a book on this.

I'd have

Andre Dirrell 2/1
Andre Ward 2/1
Mikell Kessler 2/1
Jermain Taylor 4/1
Arthur Abraham 4/1
Carl Froch 6/1

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Originally Posted by denilson200

If was doing a book on this.

I'd have

Andre Dirrell 2/1
Andre Ward 2/1
Mikell Kessler 2/1
Jermain Taylor 4/1
Arthur Abraham 4/1
Carl Froch 6/1

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Damn, you'd be in liquidation by Christmas :rolleyes:

The way I see it is through the match ups these guys have.

Froch-Dirrell: Dirrell has answered a lot of questions, he's not got the greatest chin, he has great athletic ability and handspeed. Dirrell can also switch from lefty to righty pretty decently. I just think his handspeed and his stamina will help him vs Froch. 50/50 fight, I think Dirrell is a fresher, faster, and more powerful version of JT.

Abraham-Taylor: AA is a lot like Bernard Hopkins, he gives away rounds and JT has done well with that before, all he has to do is pace himself and use some damn defense!!! 70/30 AA is at the advantage with his current form BUT this will be the first fight he has ever had at 168 and he might be like Pavlik and can't fight there for some odd reason.

Kessler-Ward: Andre Ward is the greenest of the fighters in this tourny and Kessler is the most experienced. It would be a MAJOR upset for Mikkel to lose this bout. 80/20 obviously in favor of Kessler.

The only way I would give Froch a better shot to win is if he either fought JT again (which would still be difficult) or Andre Ward. It would have been nice if Tavoris Cloud could have made 168 for this!

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Originally Posted by Lyle

The way I see it is through the match ups these guys have.

Froch-Dirrell: Dirrell has answered a lot of questions, he's not got the greatest chin, he has great athletic ability and handspeed. Dirrell can also switch from lefty to righty pretty decently. I just think his handspeed and his stamina will help him vs Froch. 50/50 fight, I think Dirrell is a fresher, faster, and more powerful version of JT.

Abraham-Taylor: AA is a lot like Bernard Hopkins, he gives away rounds and JT has done well with that before, all he has to do is pace himself and use some damn defense!!! 70/30 AA is at the advantage with his current form BUT this will be the first fight he has ever had at 168 and he might be like Pavlik and can't fight there for some odd reason.

Kessler-Ward: Andre Ward is the greenest of the fighters in this tourny and Kessler is the most experienced. It would be a MAJOR upset for Mikkel to lose this bout. 80/20 obviously in favor of Kessler.

The only way I would give Froch a better shot to win is if he either fought JT again (which would still be difficult) or Andre Ward. It would have been nice if Tavoris Cloud could have made 168 for this!

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Dirrell is greener than Ward. Ward has beaten Miranda, and he also beat Henry Buchanan who wasn't bad.

Dirrel has beaten Victor Oganov and Anthony Hanshaw, hardly a whose who of supermiddles.


Dirrell might be a great fighter but as of right now we have no way to know exactly what he has. We will find out for sure though when he fights Froch.

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Originally Posted by denilson200

If was doing a book on this.

I'd have

Andre Dirrell 2/1
Andre Ward 2/1
Mikell Kessler 2/1
Jermain Taylor 4/1
Arthur Abraham 4/1
Carl Froch 6/1

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And you wouldn't get a single punter betting ;D

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Originally Posted by Lyle

The way I see it is through the match ups these guys have.

Froch-Dirrell: Dirrell has answered a lot of questions, he's not got the greatest chin, he has great athletic ability and handspeed. Dirrell can also switch from lefty to righty pretty decently. I just think his handspeed and his stamina will help him vs Froch. 50/50 fight, I think Dirrell is a fresher, faster, and more powerful version of JT.

Abraham-Taylor: AA is a lot like Bernard Hopkins, he gives away rounds and JT has done well with that before, all he has to do is pace himself and use some damn defense!!! 70/30 AA is at the advantage with his current form BUT this will be the first fight he has ever had at 168 and he might be like Pavlik and can't fight there for some odd reason.

Kessler-Ward: Andre Ward is the greenest of the fighters in this tourny and Kessler is the most experienced. It would be a MAJOR upset for Mikkel to lose this bout. 80/20 obviously in favor of Kessler.

The only way I would give Froch a better shot to win is if he either fought JT again (which would still be difficult) or Andre Ward. It would have been nice if Tavoris Cloud could have made 168 for this!

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70/30 AA over Taylor? I'd say 60/40. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Taylor was able to defeat him. 70/30 would make it a pretty big upset and besides the weight, i don't see much of an advantage for AA. He beat up Miranda worse than Pavlik did (in the second fight), and Pavlik obviously KO'd JT but styles make fights and i think JT will be pretty active and his defense has greatly increased after the first Pavlik fight. He had a perfect gameplan to beat Kelly and he almost did (and did in some peoples opinion). AA is too economical with his punches so he's almost relying on a KO to beat Taylor if he fights that way.

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Originally Posted by skel1983

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Originally Posted by The Fightfan

I just can't see how a guy who was beaten from pillar to post for much of an entire fight be the favorite. Froch is tough but he is glorified amatuer fighter. I think he could possibly loose to everyone he fight's in this tournament to be honest. Depending on Dirrell's and Ward's chin. I think another run at JT he will lose also Kessler and AA.

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Beaton from pillar to post ?? What fight were you watching mate, you Americans sometimes are biased as fuck and seem to find it hard to give any fighter not from your shores any fucking credit, Froch was always in the fight, a beating from Pillar to post i would say is similar to a Calzaghe-Lacy fight or Hopkins-Pavlik fight, Froch-Taylor not a fucking chance.

I had Taylor up 6-3 after 9, if the fight had finished i had Taylor winning by one fucking point.

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You fucking British are biased as fuck as well. It's also very hard for any fighter who is not in the vicinity of England,Ireland Wales, or Scotland a fair shake ala Haye vs Klitschko (are you people fucking serious or is it a joke with that fight) Pillar to post maybe was a stretch but give me one clear round that Froch won that couldn't be argued with. IMO just about every round until the 10,11,12. Froch is tough but as a fighter he will be exposed in this tournament and probably knocked out and yes I could easily see our American fighter's knocking his ass out and making a damn fool of him.

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Originally Posted by The Fightfan

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Originally Posted by skel1983

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Originally Posted by The Fightfan

I just can't see how a guy who was beaten from pillar to post for much of an entire fight be the favorite. Froch is tough but he is glorified amatuer fighter. I think he could possibly loose to everyone he fight's in this tournament to be honest. Depending on Dirrell's and Ward's chin. I think another run at JT he will lose also Kessler and AA.

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Beaton from pillar to post ?? What fight were you watching mate, you Americans sometimes are biased as fuck and seem to find it hard to give any fighter not from your shores any fucking credit, Froch was always in the fight, a beating from Pillar to post i would say is similar to a Calzaghe-Lacy fight or Hopkins-Pavlik fight, Froch-Taylor not a fucking chance.

I had Taylor up 6-3 after 9, if the fight had finished i had Taylor winning by one fucking point.

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You fucking British are biased as fuck as well. It's also very hard for any fighter who is not in the vicinity of England,Ireland Wales, or Scotland a fair shake ala Haye vs Klitschko (are you people fucking serious or is it a joke with that fight) Pillar to post maybe was a stretch but give me one clear round that Froch won that couldn't be argued with. IMO just about every round until the 10,11,12. Froch is tough but as a fighter he will be exposed in this tournament and probably knocked out and yes I could easily see our American fighter's knocking his ass out and making a damn fool of him.

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Im English and im not sold on Carl Froch, by any means. But in the 2nd half of the fight i thought Carl Froch done reasonably well, and you could see Jermain Taylor was slowly fading.

I thought Carl Froch needed a 3 point in the last round to get a draw, but again i thought Jermain Taylor controlled him in the first 6 rounds. But in the 2nd half of the fight Carl Froch didn't do too bad. And he possibly won 4 out of 6 rounds, although i can't remember how i scored it.