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To tell you the truth I really dont care who wins this fight...both of these guys are class acts and are going to bring it come fight time.....
As of late I have been leaning toward Cotto.....The guy has shown a solid chin as of late and I dont think Manny will be able to hurt him....On the flip side I think Cotto's shots will wear Manny down a bit....
Cotto by narrow decision.....
Cotto by TKO in 10. He should be able to use his size and strength to bully Manny and scrape him with power shots. This implies that Cotto has to take the fight to manny though. If I see Cotto running and dancing around like he did with Clottey I'm gonna break my TV.
Manny Pacquiao TKO 8th round.
I should have inserted "anymore". No I'm not kidding, At 39, he's lost some of that speed and stamina you can really see against Margarito.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pugilistic
Are you kidding ?Quote:
Originally Posted by fan johnnyIf the fight goes the distance, Pacquiao has the advantage, Faster movement, volume of punches and greater stamina. Mosley is not that fast and lacks the stamina.Quote:
Originally Posted by hfahrenheit
I do agree with the unbolded part though.
Cotto by decision againts that DLHQuote:
Originally Posted by Kel
but why Cotto-Hatton @147?
Pac fought Hatton @140
Cotto TKO Hatton @147
I'll take Hatton at 140
Pacs speed vs cottos power
Cotto can hurt manny, he can hurt manny bad. He has to stay out of the way of his quick hands though and not make it a fight as manny will love that. If he doesnt fall into the same trap hatton did and hasnt underestimated pacquiaos ability like ODLH did i see cotto possibly taking manny out late on.
Has to be very sensible early doors and look to lead with the jab. Make manny chase the fight and use your superior strength advantages to wear him down on the counter.
Cotto in 11
22 For Cotto vs 21 for Pac on the vote at the moment
21 of you are gonna be wrong ;D
LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by Jimboogie
Make that 22 of us now ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by BIG H
22 v 22 - not often we get a split like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyuMake that 22 of us now ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by BIG H
It's now 22 vs 23 after my vote...
Seriously though I looked at the voting and expected Pac's side to be the whole Saddo Pac army, but it's mostly subjective posters... You can intelligently or theoretically argue for either fight and no one can say your a clueless moron...
I would say Cotto to big and strong, and if he ends up being that, then it'll probably seem so obvious and everyone will wonder how they hell they didn't see it coming..
On the other hand if Pac had an absolute blinder and can do a DLHesque dismantling over the 12 rounds, then people will probably feel how obvious that result was also...
It's a pickem fight, until the end, when we'll also sit back and go,,, Duh! Of course that was how it was going to go...
Thats exactly how I see it. I am leaning slightly for Pac although you have to remember Oscar was not anyhting like his old self that night and Cotto could be in his prime right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dizaster
Did Cotto look weight drained yesterday upon his arrival in Vegas? I read that somewhere.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dizaster
theyve all been banned mate ;D;D;D
I just dont see how cotto a natural 145pounder is gonna get sucked in like oscar did. A lot of the punches manny was landing on oscar at 147pounds werent having a hole lot of effect, it was just that there were so many of them.
I see cotto feeling his way through the 1st 4 and just getting more and more confident as the fight goes on. Cotto will be the 1st guy since marquez to land big on pacquiao but it`ll be much heavier shots!!
He did. I posted a picture in one of the many Pac vs Cotto threads in here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
Really? Damn. Like the weight may be a problem? 145 isn't very different than 147 especially since Cotto had a longer camp this time around and came in at 146 in his last fight. Strangely, the odds for Cotto have improved in the last few days.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChinoHe did. I posted a picture in one of the many Pac vs Cotto threads in here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
The saying goes "a good bigger man, always beats a great smaller man" , Which is why I voted for Pacquaio. I don't see Cotto as a good fighter, regardless of weight. I think this fight is Pacquaio's to lose. Looking at both fighters:
Cotto- He's slow and rather mechanical. His assertion that his hands are as fast as Pacquiao's, is a bit of over assumption on his part. Whats more he's open for an uppercut right up the middle... all day, every day. His playing coy with the media as far as not letting anyone see his training is rather pointless. He's been the same fight to fight. If his team said the plan was to walk Manny down or pressure him and break him down, i'd be impressed. The fact that he's said on numerous occasions, "that theyre ready for anything that Pacquaio brings, plays into the assumption of Roach that Cotto is looking to counter punch. I don't think Cottos ready for the pace that he will allow Manny to set. His power is there..but his coach being a gloried Go-for... I think his application is going to suffer with the lateral movement and the volume of punches being thrown by Pacquaio. He'll have a heard time getting his feet set and sitting down on his heavier shots.
Pacquaio - Despite being reinvented as a Boxing Messiah, Manny was still a limited fighter before and is overshooting his potential. He follows instructions well, very well but he can still be out thought. That being said, the transformation he's made as a fighter still says a lot about his potential and his understanding of the game. The dissention in his camp this time doesn't speak well for a group that appeared so tight before, and he does seemed to have been wearing himself thin between nationalism, politics, media appearences, Karaoke, and fighting. That would make him ripe for the picking. The difference maker here being Roach. I don't think that Roach is above faking injuries, if he truly needed more time to get Manny focused and ready. Quick southpaws have a way of making Cottos head spin, even at a relaxed pace. Double or triple the pace, add some angles and good lateral movement, and stack it on top of the spirit of a guy who doesn't mind getting hit and has experience fighting bigger opponents... and I find the odds stacked in Mannys favor.
Now I will say there is is an odd feeling that somethings not right about Pacquaio this time around, and I could see him making the biggest mistake he could make... I still think that if there was a major reason to think Pacquaio couldn't be close to his best, there would some kind of stalling or nickel and diming going on at the last minute to secure another advantage. Manny even just close to his best is still better than Cotto.If Pacquaio has strict orders to stay off the ropes, it could be a hard night for Cotto. Just my opinion.
I will pick Cotto, but of course I admit a little bias. But I was just thinking of the Mosley fight and I saw a lot there that gives me confidence that Cotto will beat Manny.Quote:
Originally Posted by hfahrenheit
1. Mosley neutralized Cotto's left hook to the body by simply holding his left during clinches. Cotto adapted, as he does very well, and boxed Mosley more. The jab was on point and Mosley was very confused throughout the fight (look at his face in between rounds). Even when Mosley came on in the late rounds, Cotto boxed superbly.
2. Mosley's comments at the end of the fight say it all. He said of Cotto: "he's a pretty good boxer too."
3. Basically, if Cotto comes out in a controlled manner, like he did against Clottey in the last fight, and establishes the jab first and everything else second, I don't see how he can lose.
Manny's speed will the deciding factor.....I think. With these two class acts it's very hard to choose who has the edge, my guess is Pacman by SD.
It's going to be a great fight no matter who wins.
Cotto will be in a situation where he doesn't know what to do. His corner is so green, that he's basically training himself. He will be surgically picked apart. It will be a one-sided bloodbath.
http://image3.examiner.com/images/bl...s_in_vegas.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratReally? Damn. Like the weight may be a problem? 145 isn't very different than 147 especially since Cotto had a longer camp this time around and came in at 146 in his last fight. Strangely, the odds for Cotto have improved in the last few days.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChinoHe did. I posted a picture in one of the many Pac vs Cotto threads in here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
Well here is how both are looking today at the final press conference.
http://i36.tinypic.com/wtuj4h.jpg
http://i33.tinypic.com/xm6hop.jpg
http://i33.tinypic.com/359y053.jpg
Notice how big is Pac's fist. Compare it with Cotto's.:cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by Diane
Fist size very rarely has anything to do with who has more power, often those with small hard hands have better KO power.Quote:
Originally Posted by bruceleeNotice how big is Pac's fist. Compare it with Cotto's.:cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by Diane
Also notice how much bigger Pac's head is. Cotto looks a bit drawn to me, there's something about him that looks quite unhealthy, I can't put my finger on it.
I have been wavering in this fight. But Roach made Pac get the right sparring partners. Man, Porter and Castillo. Thats a hellava job. And if those guys on 24/7 are Cotto's only sparring partners then I see Cotto coming in less prepared. And couple that with the 145 limit. Roach must feel certain that those 2 pounds will be enough draining to get Cotto ready for the taking. So much so that every pound Cotto goes over 145 he will be docked $1 million. Roach even threatened to call the fight off if Cotto goes over even a bit. But I still go with Cotto.
I want Cotto to win and I'm rooting for him.
But I think Pac will prevail in the end.
For those who know me long enough know I've been promoting and defending Cotto for as long and before I arrived at Saddos.
Saw the kid grow and have been a huge fan since he was on single digit fights. Got nothing but love for the guy but you guys know I keep it real and I don't let my "fanboyism" blind me...
The only way I see Cotto wining this fight is IF he keeps it in the middle of the ring where he can box and use his IMO better boxing skills. As we've seen he is virtually unbeatable when he boxes in the middle. His jab works wonders for him and once he get's the right hand going it's all forward for him.
Thing is I don't think Cotto will be able to stay off the ropes for 12 full rounds with the type of pressure Pac brings. Which is Cottos biggest problem fighting with his back on the ropes and covering up. Pac's pressure I feel will drive him to the ropes where Pac will go to work and cut open Cotto. I def. see Cotto cutting open before the 5th rd.
I agree, something looks off with him.Quote:
Originally Posted by JazMerkinFist size very rarely has anything to do with who has more power, often those with small hard hands have better KO power.Quote:
Originally Posted by bruceleeNotice how big is Pac's fist. Compare it with Cotto's.:cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by Diane
Also notice how much bigger Pac's head is. Cotto looks a bit drawn to me, there's something about him that looks quite unhealthy, I can't put my finger on it.
It may be that Pac looks healthier and fuller in comparison because he doesn't have to cut that much weight and you know Cotto has to cut a lot every time and even a couple more pounds more this time. And a couple of days before the weigh in is about the time when the sickly looks starts kicking in.Quote:
Originally Posted by CFHI agree, something looks off with him.Quote:
Originally Posted by JazMerkinFist size very rarely has anything to do with who has more power, often those with small hard hands have better KO power.Quote:
Originally Posted by brucelee
Also notice how much bigger Pac's head is. Cotto looks a bit drawn to me, there's something about him that looks quite unhealthy, I can't put my finger on it.
Cotto looks a bit drawn maybe but nothing compared to his 140 days. Fuck he looked like a mutant at the Paulie weigh in. Of course we have a few days so don't know what he has to drop.
I'm swinging around to Cotto a bit. I'll probably stick with Mannyl
random observation, he looks like Ishe Smith in that second pic for some reason :-\
Cotto looks okay to me. Pac looks much more healthy because he probably hasn't needed to lose much weight. Cotto on the other hand has needed to trim the excess bit by bit. He will make the weight and rehydrate a fair bit.
Looking at the video of the pre fight conference I think Cotto clearly looks like the biggger man. He will look even bigger come fight night. I can't wait for this bout now. It's going to be a classic.
I voted for Pac.
Basically, I'm worried about Cotto's circuit breaker after our buddy Margarito did what he did.
Personally I think this fight will be decided on Pacs ability to counter Cotto. If Cotto can mix it up and keep Pac guessing (unlike Hatton with his telegraphed left hooks) and work primarily his jab but fire hooks to the head and body and cover up, I think he wins, but I see Pac having the speed and timing on Cotto and countering effectively whether it be on the ropes or in the middle of the ring. Don't get me wrong I don't expect a a De La Hoya type destruction, in fact far from it but I do see Pac taking a quite close but clear UD.Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMick
you're actually basing it to jmm, but take a look ay manny post the second jmm fight: he had vastly improved! that jmm i doubt can push manny around now with his improved skills and physique.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
add the fact that jmm has a different style with cotto too. jmm is a counter puncher extraordinaire, cotto like hatton, hoya and diaz move straight forward. and you know with that kind of approach, pac's gonna have a field day with ya.
cotto is strong and technically sound, but he moves straight forward too. that's what pac likes and pac's gonna destroy cotto bit by bit i'm tellin ya. now that's a fact!
Cotto is going to win and here's my reasoning.
#1 Cotto is a legit welterweight, he's not going to be weight drained
#2 Cotto has shown he can BOX vs someone dangerous
#3 Cotto has a good chin and better defense than he's given credit for, look what Margarito had to do to stop him.
#4 Cotto has big time power and he isn't afraid, but he's also not stupid
When we get in situations where we as boxing fans are going to get a "Superfight" but all the pieces have to fit together perfectly for it to happen, it usually gets spoiled by something and I think in this case Miguel Cotto is EXTREMELY dangerous for Manny Pacquiao.
those reasons alone will eradicate any excuses after the fight if any, don't you agree? :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
...well there's the lingering question "is Miguel Cotto back to where he was before the Margarito fight?"
I think Cotto is fine, if Pacquiao does whup him it will be more impressive than anything Floyd Mayweather Jr. has done at 147
what's your take on this?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
from your previous post seems to me you're disagreeing on this one though. that cotto is no longer his older self.
past jennings and clottey, tell me as well, what's cotto's state now?
btw, change that to "lingering excuse."Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
I have to go with Pacquiao on ths one. Although it's should be a tough fight for the two. Pac by decision because Cotto has a strong chin.