Vitali Klitschko claims 'preliminary agreement' to fight David Haye

For the first time, I now think Haye can take both brothers. Vitali really showed signs of decline to me on saturday. I just hope he doesn't look past Ruiz and mess up first.

Although I asked earlier in the thread, I'll try again, for the people who think Haye will beat Vitali, can you explain your reasoning?

For as bad as Klitschko supposedly looked, did you know he threw more than 1000 punches? A heavyweight throwing a thousand punches? When was the last time that happened? Did you know he also thew 750 jabs? 750 jabs? That is a RECORD for a heavyweight. In fact, no other heavyweight has even come close to that number (the closest according to compubox was 600). Who cares if the jabs weren't strong punches? Moreover, check out the punch deficit: Johnson landed 65 total punches and Klitschko landed 300, Johnson landed 5 total power punches and Klitschko landed 140.

It seems to me that people are confusing a boring performance with a lousy performance. The two aren't the same.

Also, consider that in each fight Vitali somehow manages to dominate with a captial, and violent, D. He comes with a gameplan that is slightly altered for each opponent and it works every, single time. When was the last time he even lost a round? 2003? What makes you think Haye has the key to the puzzle that is Vitali Klitschko? His Hayemaker? Lennox punched harder than Vitali and Haye isn't even close to the Lennox level.

I am not bookie and can't claim to have the insight they have, but it appears that these odds are a classic case of hype getting in the way of logic.

It's a similar situation with the Pacquiao v. Mayweather odds. Pacquiao is the man, but no way he beats Mayweather and the odds are unreasonably close for that fight.

My money is on Mayweather and Klitschko. Fenster, where's yours?

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

My money is on Mayweather and Klitschko. Fenster, where's yours?

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At the current prices, my money would be on Vitali by KO/TKO/DQ (6/5) and Floyd by PTS (7/4)

I would be HOPING and in no way shocked if Haye beat Vitali and Pac beat Floyd though.

As I said earlier - Vitali is 38, injury prone and I don't care what anyone says or what the statistics say he looked poor TO ME on Saturday night ;)

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

My money is on Mayweather and Klitschko. Fenster, where's yours?

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At the current prices, my money would be on Vitali by KO/TKO/DQ (6/5) and Floyd by PTS (7/4)

I would be HOPING and in no way shocked if Haye beat Vitali and Pac beat Floyd though.

As I said earlier - Vitali is 38, injury prone and I don't care what anyone says or what the statistics say he looked poor TO ME on Saturday night ;)

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I agree with the Vitali and Floyd bets. I also hope Pac beats Floyd. I don't like Haye so I won't hope he wins, but for him, but as in Pac/Floyd, it probably would be good for boxing if Pac and/or Haye wins. I just don't see it happening.

Here's the thing about Vitali, who does he have to beat for people to begin to recognize his greatness? Unlike Floyd's situation, in which people say, Paul Williams or Shane Mosley etc, Vitali doesn't cherry pick, he fights everyone in his division. When he beats Haye and everyone else in the top ten, people will continue to doubt him, fair or not. Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing him knock Valuev out.

With Haye, he received a big boost in publicity from simply challenging the Klitschkos even though he bitched out in the end for business reasons and probably had no intention of actually fighting them. Haye will probably pull more of the same now: make money off their name and continue to fight contenders until they are too old, someone beats them, or they retire. At the end of the day, it makes some business sense too. Why risk losing your marketability when you may be served by Vitali as opposed to stacking ends against lesser opponents?

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

My money is on Mayweather and Klitschko. Fenster, where's yours?

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At the current prices, my money would be on Vitali by KO/TKO/DQ (6/5) and Floyd by PTS (7/4)

I would be HOPING and in no way shocked if Haye beat Vitali and Pac beat Floyd though.

As I said earlier - Vitali is 38, injury prone and I don't care what anyone says or what the statistics say he looked poor TO ME on Saturday night ;)

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I agree with the Vitali and Floyd bets. I also hope Pac beats Floyd. I don't like Haye so I won't hope he wins, but for him, but as in Pac/Floyd, it probably would be good for boxing if Pac and/or Haye wins. I just don't see it happening.

Here's the thing about Vitali, who does he have to beat for people to begin to recognize his greatness? Unlike Floyd's situation, in which people say, Paul Williams or Shane Mosley etc, Vitali doesn't cherry pick, he fights everyone in his division. When he beats Haye and everyone else in the top ten, people will continue to doubt him, fair or not. Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing him knock Valuev out.

With Haye, he received a big boost in publicity from simply challenging the Klitschkos even though he bitched out in the end for business reasons and probably had no intention of actually fighting them. Haye will probably pull more of the same now: make money off their name and continue to fight contenders until they are too old, someone beats them, or they retire. At the end of the day, it makes some business sense too. Why risk losing your marketability when you may be served by Vitali as opposed to stacking ends against lesser opponents?

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You've got the wrong end of the stick with Haye... but whatever, you don't like him so nothing will change that for now.

As for Vitali - part of his problem is his brother. When you get TWO standout fighters in a division everyone needs them to fight. Obviously they can't. Two champs is bullshit. You need to be a stand alone heavyweight ruler to get serious attention/respect.

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by Fenster

The difference is, Haye is 29 with possible improvement likely.. Vitali is 38, already been forced into retirement through injury, and looked "old" on saturday. Look how his eyes marked up.

It might not be such a long shot that Haye smashes him up.

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Of course. Just look at the way he smashed up an even slower, less active Nikolay Valuev. :beat:

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I said it's a long shot.

Vitali isn't the mountain that Valuev is. Improvement vs decline. Youth vs injury prone fossil. There's been bigger upsets. Fact.

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I'd be inclined to agree with that if Valuev hadn't already shown his chin could get rocked (v. Barrett). Vitali hasn't been rocked to my knowledge and as of late has been pitching shut-outs against guys.

Let's say Vitali is declining. He still has enough left against a guy whose best asset is his ability to run. But even that can only last so long against someone who can reach across the ring to get you.

Haye's camp are now saying the ere's no preliminary or any other kind of agreement in place. So basically Vitali's "preliminary agreement" is "let's fight for the same split we agreed before you became WBA champ" and Haye's reply today is "fuck off."

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

My money is on Mayweather and Klitschko. Fenster, where's yours?

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At the current prices, my money would be on Vitali by KO/TKO/DQ (6/5) and Floyd by PTS (7/4)

I would be HOPING and in no way shocked if Haye beat Vitali and Pac beat Floyd though.

As I said earlier - Vitali is 38, injury prone and I don't care what anyone says or what the statistics say he looked poor TO ME on Saturday night ;)

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What was his land percentage on saturday night? Great fighters tend to land between 35 and 50%, I reckon he must have been somewhere around the 10-15% region. I may be wrong but if i'm not that isn't a good sign and to me shows he is in decline. 38 is old in this game, even Ali's wheels fell off at that age, fair enough he had been in a lot more wars than Vitali but age is age.

That is the main reason I think Haye now will beat him!!

It is hard to look good against a guy who only landed 5/54 power shots (worst in compu box history)......VK dominated Arreola to a TKO less than three months ago. Kevin was just trying to make it through the fight.

VK will wreck haye, but Haye wont get in the ring with a Klitschko, we found that out twice already.