funny how epo can easily be undetected especially in boxing where blood testing isn't required yet pacquiao is the only fighter who has risen to the level he has. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmanhatton
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funny how epo can easily be undetected especially in boxing where blood testing isn't required yet pacquiao is the only fighter who has risen to the level he has. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmanhatton
I had to give in to the temptation and neg rep you.Quote:
Originally Posted by mad_takamura
You are just getting annoying. There is a lot of hot air coming from you with your "fucking hater" this and "Pac has bigger balls than all of you" that. All people are asking is that Pac show himself clean through a relatively simple series of random checks. You people are acting like the skies are falling when it really isn't a particularly big demand. We are not trying to solve the middle east conflict here. It's just a pro sportsman being asked to provide some checks and he is refusing. Can you not see that this is not about hating, but a simple case of wanting the best for boxing and what will be the biggest fight of the year?
At the end of the day we all want the fight to happen and most people seem to be in favour of wanting both fighters to be clean. Let's have the tests and get on with it.
if both fighters really want to fight each other it will eventually get done. who wouldn't with so much money on the line? at length they'll be able to work around it to the satisfaction of both sides. i think with pac's team it has something to do with giving up control in negotiations to an opponent who they feel needs the fight more than they do. the fact that floyd sr came up with the baseless accusation and pac's team having to disprove it by acquiescing to mayweather's demand of a test that's not really required in pro boxing is just ticking them off. pac has had some bad experience with blood drawing before in his first fight with morales. it's a psychological thing, nothing that big that cannot be overcome, but still something that he has issues with. to give in to mayweather's whim means team pac giving up control and shifting the leverage to their opponent side. anyway, the more stumbling blocks this fight have, the more people will talk about it and the better it will sell. i really didn't expect super fights of this magnitude would be that easy to negotiate and make.
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Originally Posted by KamaoHey. don't let your small brain eat you. Everything here is merely an opinion and everything are accompanied by big IF's and What If's. If you say "Waste of a First Post" others and that includes myself will also say that yours are also a waste and a F?cking no-sense. Learn how to look into different perspectives so you will be re-educated.Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmanhattonwaste of a first post.... factQuote:
Originally Posted by Kamao
you can barley construct a sentence, ... re-educated indeed:rolleyes:
wow, even a womens period comes out in these threads... but what does that have to do with anything?Quote:
Originally Posted by Howlin Mad MissyQuote:
Originally Posted by mad_takamuraStill could weaken you to the actual fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmanhatton
and women bleed every month, deal with it pac, quit bitching and dish up the red, you pussy ;D
Pac is behaving erratically over losing a little bit of blood?
You really don't see the link between that a period joke?
:rolleyes:
Not anymore...now Bob Arum and Team Pacquiao have changed their stance YET AGAIN. Mayweather says we want USADA testing, Pacquiao cries to the Gods and Arum calls the fight off. Then Arum says "ok, we'll do some additional testing but it has to be with a third party, let's use the same guys that the NFL, NBA, MLB use. Mayweather's team backs off USADA and says "alright, I don't care as long as the blood tests are random." AND FUCKING NOOOOOOOOOOOW, Bob Arum is saying "we'll only do additional testing if the NSAC asks for it". A petition on blood testing has to be raised in the January to get the NSAC to hear the case and they said "we don't know how long it will take to decide on it." So we ALL KNOW that NSAC ain't gonna do blood testing. WHAT THE HELL MAN? What is wrong with Bob Arum and Manny Pacquiao? Something is up and I think it's one of three things: Manny is using PEDs, Manny is realizing that he can't train for this type of fight and run for political office at the same time and is trying to find a way out of the fight, or this is just all hype cooked up GBP and Top Rank to get them some heavy sports new coverage and front page headlines a couple months before the fight (I don't think it is).Quote:
Originally Posted by KamaoQuote:
Originally Posted by AdamGBQuote:
Originally Posted by mad_takamura
The bottom line for me is that Urine tests are inconclusive at best and that Pac's behaviour over this fiasco have cast a huge amount of suspicion over him.
He must have known the reaction that the general public would have over this, yet he chose to act the way he has... In my opinion ANY effect that the blood test would have (which would be slim to none) would not be worth the way this has made Pac look unless he had something BIG to hide. That is just my opinion though, unfortunatly for pac that is no doubt the opinion of 100s of others now too.
The fact that he has acted this way, asking for a timetable, saying he's afraid of needles, despite having tattoos, thinking a tiny blood test will affect him when he is surrounded by sports nutritionists/chefs etc is a MASSIVE smoking gun no matter which way you spin it.
The way I see it, Mayweather is afraid to fight. Why only now the issue had been raised on this blood test thing? Past DLH, Hatton, Cotto and nobody asked then for this shit test thing. As the saying goes: "If one man wants to do a task, he will do it without hesitation otherwise, he will complain, go into lots of talking and make excuses".
Mind everybody here, Team Pacquiao is not against on this blood test thing, they want to have the test but with some other third party agency. In addition, why USADA? both are professional fighters recognized not only in the USA but to the whole of Planet Earth. Correct me if I'm wrong but USADA is doing testing only for Olympic, Pan American and Paralympic Athletes. (Do you think the Major League Baseball will agree to have their testing with a collegiate baseball agency specializing in high school and college baseball leagues oh common, have some common sense). INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY.
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Originally Posted by KKisserfunny how epo can easily be undetected especially in boxing where blood testing isn't required yet pacquiao is the only fighter who has risen to the level he has. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmanhatton
hahahah ye because he is widley recognised as #1 GOAT isnt he... second to god himself (well only to the 'haters')
get a grip, plenty of fighters have achieved as much or more than he has
dont come out with the old 7 division BS because pac has the big advantage of starting so light were the divisions are like 2,3 lbs apart and the sport currently has more divisions than it ever has before
mad takamura,
when this fight doesn't happen because the "superstitious" pacquiao won't take an itty bitty blood test, i have a suggest for you. why don't you just shoot yourself because you are the one acting like a complete pussy and imbecille. i mean, you've already threatened to "kill" posters here one by one. that to me is evident of a total idiot in desperation mode. and why are you so opposed to paccheat taking this blood test? are you afraid that pacquiao might come out dirty and will be labeled a complete fraud and cheat? in the mean time, go worship a picture of your God pacquiao and ask him why he's being such a coward and pussy! :o
“I am still willing to Fight Floyd Mayweather Jr. I never said the fight was off or I do not want to fight him. I will fight anyone at anytime and my record and past fights prove that. I have never and will never dodge anyone. These are my specifications for this fight regarding blood testing. I have offered to give a blood sample the day of the announcement of the fight at the press [conference]. I have offered to give a blood sample 30 days before the fight. I am willing to give blood immediately after the fight is over inside my dressing room . I am also willing to give urine tests at anytime any where everyday leading up to the fight. The truth is taking blood out of my body does not seem natural to me and mentally I feel it will weaken me if blood is taken from me just days before the fight. That does not make sense to me why anyone would do that.”
Pacquiao-Mayweather Update | Fightnews - Boxing News Updated 24/7
Also I know some of us are friends with Malignaggi on Facebook he said that he has NOT been contacted by Arum.
haha you dont even want to see the pm that 12 yr old nuthugger sent me. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by milmascaras1
oh took you several days to come up with that? lolQuote:
Originally Posted by hitmanhattonQuote:
Originally Posted by KKisserfunny how epo can easily be undetected especially in boxing where blood testing isn't required yet pacquiao is the only fighter who has risen to the level he has. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmanhatton
hahahah ye because he is widley recognised as #1 GOAT isnt he... second to god himself (well only to the 'haters')
get a grip, plenty of fighters have achieved as much or more than he has
dont come out with the old 7 division BS because pac has the big advantage of starting so light were the divisions are like 2,3 lbs apart and the sport currently has more divisions than it ever has before
ok, just name me these fighters we have at present that is at par with pac's achievement or current performance. since it's so easy to get away with these peds in pro boxing without the blood test there gotta be plenty of them, right?
also, pac is only goat to a few loud nuthuggers, and don't even bring god up. pac's movie came up last in boxoffice top-grosser among all entries in this years metro manila film festival in the philippines and i doubt he would even win as a congressman in the small province he's running at for next year's election. shows how popular he is outside of being a boxer. lol
methink this article explains better why pac's team doesn't want to do it:
Pacquiao vs. Mayweather: Floyd Mayweather Jr. Attempts to Kill Boxing | Bleacher Report\\
"Mayweather is once again willing to negotiate, as you can see in the article I’ve linked below. Other articles have made the point that it’s not the blood testing that bothers Pacquiao per say; it’s the relinquishing of control to Mayweather."
Oh so now that's the reason?Quote:
Originally Posted by KKisser
I thought he was afraid of needles, and then disruption of his training schedule, and then the mental weakness of giving a blood sample, and then the lawsuit for defamation of character, then it was Golden Boy's connection to the USADA, now it's about control.
It's all BS,
The following statement is still true no matter how you spin it.
"Pacquiao is backing out of the fight because of a drug test"
actually it's a little of all that killersheep. whether you believe it or not, it's ultimately all about control. just wait and see, this fight will still get done. pac will take a random test and we'll all be happy watching this 1st quarter of 2010.
so needless to say, it's still Manny Pacquiao's fault that this fight isn't happening, and he's the main cause of all this pre-fight bullshit dramaQuote:
Originally Posted by KKisser
Control for what? Everything else has already been agreed to. I had a lot of respect for Pacquiao, he was my fighter of the year vote no question. He has accomplished some amazing things. I don't understand the argument that Pacquiao is taking control by being ignorant to why testing procedures need to be random or being afraid of needles. Maybe he is just getting a jumpstart on his political career?Quote:
Originally Posted by KKisser
Also running around in a delirium of panic is hardly what I would call control, it's the exact opposite.
This has always been about control for Pacman. If I were him, I wouldn't want the USADA doing the drug tests either. I wouldn't want any American agency doing the drug test. I'd rather have some independent agency that doesn't represent either the Phillipines or the United States do them. As for the random drug testing, I'd want it written in that Floyds blood would need to be taken within 2 hours of my own every single time if I were Pacman. Outside of that, this thing should move forward.
lot of angst here lol. everything is just posturing and control. keep talking about the fight guys. that'll keep up the hype lmao.
so you say. lolQuote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesso needless to say, it's still Manny Pacquiao's fault that this fight isn't happening, and he's the main cause of all this pre-fight bullshit dramaQuote:
Originally Posted by KKisser
these are just big egos colliding. there's no question it would be fair if both fighters take the random test, but it's that mayweather dictating the terms of how it should be done that's unacceptable to team pac. floyd never asked previous opponents before for such test. now because sr. says pac is on roids and they have to have the test they have to do it? everything is just posturing and it'll get done in the end.Quote:
Originally Posted by killersheepControl for what? Everything else has already been agreed to. I had a lot of respect for Pacquiao, he was my fighter of the year vote no question. He has accomplished some amazing things. I don't understand the argument that Pacquiao is taking control by being ignorant to why testing procedures need to be random or being afraid of needles. Maybe he is just getting a jumpstart on his political career?Quote:
Originally Posted by KKisser
Also running around in a delirium of panic is hardly what I would call control, it's the exact opposite.
further proving that Pacquiao is the one holding up the fight with his diva attitude, he's acting like a spoiled brat and a whiney bitchQuote:
Originally Posted by KKisserthese are just big egos colliding. there's no question it would be fair if both fighters take the random test, but it's that mayweather dictating the terms of how it should be done that's unacceptable to team pac. everything is just posturing and it'll get done in the end.Quote:
Originally Posted by killersheepControl for what? Everything else has already been agreed to. I had a lot of respect for Pacquiao, he was my fighter of the year vote no question. He has accomplished some amazing things. I don't understand the argument that Pacquiao is taking control by being ignorant to why testing procedures need to be random or being afraid of needles. Maybe he is just getting a jumpstart on his political career?Quote:
Originally Posted by KKisser
Also running around in a delirium of panic is hardly what I would call control, it's the exact opposite.
you could also say floyd asking for this kind of test which has never been done before in any championship fight is holding up the fight, and the same description can be said of money mayweather.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesfurther proving that Pacquiao is the one holding up the fight with his diva attitude, he's acting like a spoiled brat and a whiney bitchQuote:
Originally Posted by KKisserthese are just big egos colliding. there's no question it would be fair if both fighters take the random test, but it's that mayweather dictating the terms of how it should be done that's unacceptable to team pac. everything is just posturing and it'll get done in the end.Quote:
Originally Posted by killersheep
You could, but both Pac and PBF are playing for their historical legacy now, and this narrative simply puts Pac on the wrong side: ie, on the side of sports authorities who've long enabled cheating by requiring testing standards that are easy to manipulate.Quote:
Originally Posted by KKisser
Since its unlikely a cheater would require strict testing, PBF has managed to transform himself into a good guy whose historical accomplishments now seem above rebuke, like Ken Griffey jr.
If PBF had required some obscure and unprecedented test never before used, I'd agree he's simply deploying a pretense to avoid fighting...but Olympic testing is considered fair and square, as is PBFs reputation now.
Here’s what I don’t get about the article. You have this expert providing information on how specifically EPO is measured for by using the blood cells and then says random testing is essential.
If blood is taken immediately following the fight and it can be measured for increased capacity and then there is the fact that synthetic EPO molecule can be checked for in urine. http://www.rice.edu/~jenky/sports/epo.html Random checking of urine is a direct method. Even if an undetectable masking agent is used, it wipes out all the EPO, not just the synthetic stuff so they will know it was washed. So why make the statement random blood testing is essential? I’m having a hard time believing the veracity of this article. It’s either that or this expert is lying.
They're not just looking for an EPO though.
if you're tested post fight then you can have trained with PEDs, had your body respond in a more anabolic (therefore beneficial) way to the stimulus placed on it in training camp yet show up clean because you've cycled off them before the fight.
PEDs etc are not just a case of popping them before the fight and having them charge you up like a super shot of latte or something.
Trace amounts of stuff show up in urine, but not inter cellular stuff and the amounts you get in urine... it's pretty easy to argue that they're naturally there and just slightly above average... it's also far to easy to mask things in urine and the testing being random is a bit of a no brainer...
Like 100s of people keep saying - it's all to easy to cycle or mask things if you know exactly what and when the tests will be.
That's it. Keep going. Suck that Pac dikk. brucelee would be proud.Quote:
Originally Posted by mad_takamura
Fukking faggot
says the dude who went all Ahkmed the terrorist on everyone who disagrees with hiim "......PACQUIAO IS NOT A CHEAAAAAAAAT........I'll KEEL YOUUUUUU"Quote:
Originally Posted by mad_takamura
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but it's that mayweather dictating the terms of how it should be done that's unacceptable to team pac.
Mayweather dictating terms? Let's see here...
Pac: fight should be on March, $10 million for extra pound you go above the agreed 147, 8oz gloves, 50/50 split, etc.
Mayweather:.........blood test:rolleyes:.
Who's making demands here?
the $10m was a direct reaction immediately to mayweather's demand of olympic type drug testing so you got to see where it's coming from... all about control. 8 oz gloves never was an issue while the 50/50 split wasn't dictated by pac alone, in case you forgot both sides were demanding the bigger size of the pie so both camp have to agree to meet in the middle to make it happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chino
no buddy the $10 million per pound thing came before the blood tests, and Floyd acceptedQuote:
Originally Posted by KKisserthe $10m was a direct reaction immediately to mayweather's demand of olympic type drug testing so you got to see where it's coming from... all about control. 8 oz gloves never was an issue while the 50/50 split wasn't dictated by pac alone, in case you forgot both sides were demanding the bigger size of the pie so both camp have to agree to meet in the middle to make it happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chino
let me just make it clear that i'm not at all justifying pac's actions. what i'm just trying to say is that the reason why pac isn't keen on the demand of this type of testing is not because he's hiding something but because mayweather is demanding it and they do not want to be demanded upon. i think pac will eventually agree to a random testing but not the way floyd insisted on. both guys are divas and have big egos so they would like to make it appear that it's the other guy who needs the fight more. all of us wants to see this fight and all these brouhaha and posturing would make for a more interesting encounter once the fight happens.
can you show me a link. i've seen they demanded the amount only after floyd insisted on the testing.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesno buddy the $10 million per pound thing came before the blood tests, and Floyd acceptedQuote:
Originally Posted by KKisserthe $10m was a direct reaction immediately to mayweather's demand of olympic type drug testing so you got to see where it's coming from... all about control. 8 oz gloves never was an issue while the 50/50 split wasn't dictated by pac alone, in case you forgot both sides were demanding the bigger size of the pie so both camp have to agree to meet in the middle to make it happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chino
decided to look for it meself:
Pac/May - Psychological Warfare - 10 Million Dollar Penalty For Weight? - Avi \"Shoefly\" Korine - The Rumble - Sporting NewsQuote:
It is extremely unlikely that Mayweather will have trouble making the 147 pound limit, but it is telling that Pacquiao is making such an enormous demand; more than 30 times more severe than the penalty for the Mayweather/Marquez fight. On one hand you could say that Pacquiao is just trying to protect himself from any Mayweather hijinks, but I think the more interesting take on the situation is that it's a measure of vengeance for Mayweather's insistence on Olympic-style drug testing.
That doesn't really address the question. I was pointing out that the expert in the article specifically identified EPO and why it was important for blood testing and that it be random. As an expert he knows what the effects are, what to look for, and how masking is done. So it's either the author how is intentionally changing context of the statements given by the expert or the expert is lying. Why?Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamGB
I'm not try to argue that one method is better than the other and random testing has it's applications. I don't get the expert testimony having a bad conclusion with such an excellent supporting statements. Drug Tests Used in Sports - Sports and Drugs - ProCon.org
From the link you have provided the blood is only an added measure for testing and in other article a screening of athlete to determine who they deem necessary for a urine test. But the urine is sufficient for detecting EPO.Quote:
Originally Posted by fan johnnyThat doesn't really address the question. I was pointing out that the expert in the article specifically identified EPO and why it was important for blood testing and that it be random. As an expert he knows what the effects are, what to look for, and how masking is done. So it's either the author how is intentionally changing context of the statements given by the expert or the expert is lying. Why?Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamGB
I'm not try to argue that one method is better than the other and random testing has it's applications. I don't get the expert testimony having a bad conclusion with such an excellent supporting statements. Drug Tests Used in Sports - Sports and Drugs - ProCon.org
which brings me to this video that i remember seeing earlier this month.Quote:
Originally Posted by jerome01
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGd8r...layer_embedded
based on this video, dated dec 11,team pac originally agreed with the olympic style testing. it's only when the mayweather's demanded excessive random blood sampling, which could possibly be done right before the fight, that team pac didn't want to be pulled a fast one on.
i still stand by my hair sampling compromise. it's less intrusive and more indicative if pac has ever used roids.
Hair testing does not detect EPO. EPO needs to be tested in the blood, if it comes back positive then a urine test is used to confirm it.Quote:
Originally Posted by erik_corraleswhich brings me to this video that i remember seeing earlier this month.Quote:
Originally Posted by jerome01
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGd8r...layer_embedded
based on this video, dated dec 11,team pac originally agreed with the olympic style testing. it's only when the mayweather's demanded excessive random blood sampling, which could possibly be done right before the fight, that team pac didn't want to be pulled a fast one on.
i still stand by my hair sampling compromise. it's less intrusive and more indicative if pac has ever used roids.
then why not test it in urine and THEN blood to confirm?Quote:
Originally Posted by killersheep
With regards to testing for synthetic EPO in the blood verses Urine, according to the experts. They look for the effects of EPO in the blood by measuring how much oxygen it can carry which is why taking blood is required (but it needs only be taken immediately after the fight.) They take urine samples to look for the actual synthetic molecule. But what cheaters do is wash their urine using an undetectable masking agent which is why they want the blood to confirm the effects. The thing is if they use the masking, it takes out all of the EPO both natural and synthetic so then can be concluded the urine sample was tampered with. If I'm an expert and know this, I won't make statement that don't make sense. The link I provided lists the type of testing they do for the groups of banned substances Drug Tests Used in Sports - Sports and Drugs - ProCon.orgQuote:
Originally Posted by erik_corraleswhich brings me to this video that i remember seeing earlier this month.Quote:
Originally Posted by jerome01
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGd8r...layer_embedded
based on this video, dated dec 11,team pac originally agreed with the olympic style testing. it's only when the mayweather's demanded excessive random blood sampling, which could possibly be done right before the fight, that team pac didn't want to be pulled a fast one on.
i still stand by my hair sampling compromise. it's less intrusive and more indicative if pac has ever used roids.
I have also read the USADA cannot do the testing because it's rules don't allow it to participate but I can't find the link to the article and it was from a diffident guy than the one GBP uses as a reference.
I don't think Pacquiao needs to be defended about blood testing by his fans. He has stated his reasons you can accept them or not. If this is really a physiological battle, he is letting Mayweather get the upper hand by playing into it.
The longer this negotiation fiasco goes on in the media, the more I think this is all hoax.
They tried to but gave up after JMM kept drinking the samples, before they could be tested.;DQuote:
Originally Posted by mad_takamura