Could prime Foreman have beaten Wladimir?

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Originally Posted by denilson200

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Originally Posted by Taeth

I was just thinking about this today, and baring a big lucky punch I just don't see Foreman standing a chance. I think Wlad would use good movement and his jab and totally keep Foreman at bay. In his day George was so big, but in comparison he is two inches shorter and 25 pounds lighter than Wladimir, and as strong as he was I don't see with his lack of footwork how he would have the power to bull through Wlad's jab.

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Are you serious ? If a prime Foreman fought Wlad. Wlad would have two chance SLIM and NONE........and SLIM just left town !!! Let's break it down here. A 45 year old Foreman won the world title. A 43 year old Foreman fought a peak Holyfield and went the distance with him. So even when Foreman was way past his best he was still able to mix it with the best of there day. So given these facts one can only shudder in awe as to how good he must have been when he was 25 and as a side note. How good must have Ali been to beat him and not only that but knockout him out (Foremans only knockout loss and knockdown) and Ali was 32 when he beat Foreman. So how good must have Ali been when was 25 ?

Anyway I digress. Getting back to the subject. I think the question should be NOT if Wlad would have beaten a peak Foreman (Because that's just silly) a more accurate question would be if Wlad would have beaten a peak Tommy Morrison, Ray Mercer, Tony Tucker or Frank Bruno because that's more his level.

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So your argument is because Foreman beat Moorer and went the distance with Holyfield then he would have beaten Klitschko, a fighter who is taller, bigger and stronger than either. I would say smarter than what Moorer was that night too considering he didn't listen to his corner and Wlad always listens to Steward. Foreman wasn't infallible and the elder version was completely different than the younger considering what he gained in ring smarts he lost in reflexes and mobility. Wlad would test Foreman's chin after the 2nd round or so with the straight right so Foreman definitely wouldn't just be able to walk in. The version that beat Sam Peter is a lot more polished now and if Sam were in his prime Wlad would easily dismantle him. Everybody has off nights and that was Klitschkos as he was adjusting to a new style instead of straight up brawling until the other guy dropped or he did.

Funny thing is Wlad is not a bad fighter i find him boring but he can fight. But Foreman wins this so easily it's mad.

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Originally Posted by miles

I also think Wlad would be a number on Peter, but it is also because Peter has slipped too. Wlad is just so cautious these days, he seems really scared to get hit. That might help him last longer against Foreman, but Foreman wouldn't be fighting the strange defensive fight that people keep producing against Wlad. Wlad has it pretty easy in this division, there are too many limited blobs stepping up for the payday. Nobody seems to be up for the fight.

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OK Wladimir isn't the same fighter he was 5 years ago (which is an eternity in boxing). Sure Wlad is cautious but even while he is cautious (because apparently he's trying to protect that chin that everyone complains about) Wlad is never not inflicting punishment, the jab is ALWAYS doing damage, the left hook is doing damage, and the right cross well not many fighters survive that.

Another complaint I have about people's judgement of Wladimir is that they "know for a fact" that he's chinny and then proceed to take shots at him for being "cautious"....I mean if you have a weakness you don't put it right out there for anyone and everyone to exploit. Ali was quick on his feet, nobody demanded he stand toe to toe with anyone, Foreman had loads of power and nobody expected him to outbox anyone, nobody expected Joe Frazier to fight like Pernell Whittaker.....but why do people want Wlad to just throw like a wild man? Wlad isn't Mike Tyson he isn't Lennox Lewis he's Wladimir Klitschko and that's how he fights and it's been pretty damn effective thus far.

SEANIE, you've made a post on this thread but you've managed to #1 not add anything to the conversation and #2 make it apparent to everyone that you're a moron.

littlebif, I suppose Foreman's superior defense makes him impervious to anything Wladimir would throw or is Wlad allowed to punch back in this hypothetical match up?

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Originally Posted by denilson200

Anyway I digress. Getting back to the subject. I think the question should be NOT if Wlad would have beaten a peak Foreman (Because that's just silly) a more accurate question would be if Wlad would have beaten a peak Tommy Morrison, Ray Mercer, Tony Tucker or Frank Bruno because that's more his level.

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Yes Wladimir would beat all of them and fairly easily....maybe Mercer COULD give him trouble but the style matchups with the rest all favor Wladimir.

The fighter I think beats Wlad more often than not is a Prime Evander Holyfield, solid defense, good boxing pedigree, good handspeed, a granite chin, a high workrate, and he had good enough power to hurt anyone...it wasn't 1 punch KO power but he'd rough a fighter up. That constant pressure round after round and perhaps Wlad wouldn't be able to either land clean or really hurt Evander would really wear on Wlad.

wlad is not and never will be an atg i do not think it's fair to compare him to one. every atg beats him.

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Originally Posted by piye

wlad is not and never will be an atg i do not think it's fair to compare him to one. every atg beats him.

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While I agree that it's kind of tough to compare him to the All-Time greats, I don't think we should slam the door shut on the chance he may be able to sneak in there 53(47 KO)-3 at 33 years old isn't a horrible record in any era, and it's not like he has ducked anyone and you can't blame him for a weak era.

I think there are a fair number of Good maybe Great Heavyweights Wlad would hold his own with and some he would definently beat.

Foreman is a master chess player in the ring who later on had patients and 1 helluva punch to knockout anyone. Vlad has very good skills that have developed more and more under Manny's expertise. I think the 1988 to 1997 Foreman would have walked down Vlad eaten alot of jabs and a few right hands but would have eventually caught Vlad and taken him out. Now the younger version before Ali's devastating loss would have showed no fear and probably would have mowed him down like Corrie Sanders did. I'm going with both versions of George Foreman's by ko.

I don't think #1 Old Foreman had the defense to handle Wladimir and #2 Wlad ain't stupid, he wouldn't gas out or stand right infront of Big George....you people mention how cautious he is now, you don't think he'd be able to stick and move for 12 vs Old Foreman?

While I agree Young Foreman more than likely would have KO'd Wlad you can't compare Foreman to Corrie Sanders they are two totally different fighters and Wlad is a different fighter now.

Just who the hell do you guys think Wlad could beat? Jerry Quarry maybe? Primo Carnera? Archie Moore? Bob Foster?....I mean you guys call the hypothetical matchup between Wlad and Foreman "ridiculous" but you still see Old Foreman not just beating but KO-ing Wlad?!?! If Shannon Briggs can survive (not saying he won the fight because he got a gift) but if he can last the distance without an "asthma attack" then so could Wlad....if Tommy Morrison could outbox Old Foreman then so could Wlad.

Yes to the question. It's as if the OP is making it out that prime Foreman has no chance.

Might as well start a thread that asks, "Can a Prime Ali beat Wlad?"

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Originally Posted by generalbulldog

Yes to the question. It's as if the OP is making it out that prime Foreman has no chance.

Might as well start a thread that asks, "Can a Prime Ali beat Wlad?"

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Ali had his fair share of troubles vs not so great fighters so once again it's not implausable (albeit very unlikely) for Wlad to have beaten Ali.

Eight times out of ten he would win by knockout. That's the way I think about it.

the prime foreman would have walked thru wladimir,,no contest..one good shot by foreman and its all over...he would be shivering with fright before the fight began..I would put this fight in the same class as foreman vs norton

Honestly, I think George could win but I would give the edge to Wlad. His chin is suspect, sure, but he showed he can get up from a knock down as well, it's not like if he was only about paper mache neither. I would give him the edge in speed and movement and his deadly stinging jab would most definitely hurt Foreman but the guy can hit like a bull and in that respect, he would have a chance. Still, as far as I am concerned, ODD to Wlad.

Wlad is a big, strong, well conditioned guy with good technique ..... but he fights the same way all the time and his punch resistance is very poor.

I think that Wlad would have outpointed the old, fat George ..... just pumped out the jab for 12 rounds and kept George off balance with a few straight rights to keep his guessing.

Young Foreman is a different matter altogether, a big, strong bully with a truly vicious temperament. Young Foreman would have jumped on Wlad from the first bell, he would have the centre of the ring and he would be pushing Wlad backwards. Young Foreman was a monstrous hitter, he could hit your arms and damage them!

IMO .... Young Prime Foreman ambushes Wlad from the very first bell, I see a Frazier type fight here but I'm not sure Wlad would get up as many times as Smokin Joe did.

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Originally Posted by Lyle

I don't think #1 Old Foreman had the defense to handle Wladimir and #2 Wlad ain't stupid, he wouldn't gas out or stand right infront of Big George....you people mention how cautious he is now, you don't think he'd be able to stick and move for 12 vs Old Foreman?

While I agree Young Foreman more than likely would have KO'd Wlad you can't compare Foreman to Corrie Sanders they are two totally different fighters and Wlad is a different fighter now.

Just who the hell do you guys think Wlad could beat? Jerry Quarry maybe? Primo Carnera? Archie Moore? Bob Foster?....I mean you guys call the hypothetical matchup between Wlad and Foreman "ridiculous" but you still see Old Foreman not just beating but KO-ing Wlad?!?! If Shannon Briggs can survive (not saying he won the fight because he got a gift) but if he can last the distance without an "asthma attack" then so could Wlad....if Tommy Morrison could outbox Old Foreman then so could Wlad.

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I agree, if Wlad could stay 100% strict with himself for the full 12 rounds he would decision Old Foreman. Moorer was outboxing him until he tried to get slightly macho. Holyfield let himself get dragged into a war that he should not have done and Morrison who I always found to be a great watch due to his brawling type style although he lacked in certain other skills, knew if he stayed away from Foremans power and he could win a decision.

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Originally Posted by X

Wlad is a big, strong, well conditioned guy with good technique ..... but he fights the same way all the time and his punch resistance is very poor.

I think that Wlad would have outpointed the old, fat George ..... just pumped out the jab for 12 rounds and kept George off balance with a few straight rights to keep his guessing.

Young Foreman is a different matter altogether, a big, strong bully with a truly vicious temperament. Young Foreman would have jumped on Wlad from the first bell, he would have the centre of the ring and he would be pushing Wlad backwards. Young Foreman was a monstrous hitter, he could hit your arms and damage them!

IMO .... Young Prime Foreman ambushes Wlad from the very first bell, I see a Frazier type fight here but I'm not sure Wlad would get up as many times as Smokin Joe did.

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No-one in the history of the HW division had the heart of "Smokin Joe" IMO. If it wasn't for the fights being stopped he'd of just kept getting up until he was either clean unconcious or dead!

Wlad would have destroyed Foreman. It is ridiculous that people try to deny the HW division when a white, non American owns it. Tyson fought in the weakest HW era of all time, and never beat a decent fighter, let alone a good fighter. The good fighters he fought KHTFO. Foreman would have no idea how to deal with a bigger, faster guy than him. Wlad with a KO in 8.

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Originally Posted by eagleskins

Wlad would have destroyed Foreman. It is ridiculous that people try to deny the HW division when a white, non American owns it. Tyson fought in the weakest HW era of all time, and never beat a decent fighter, let alone a good fighter. The good fighters he fought KHTFO. Foreman would have no idea how to deal with a bigger, faster guy than him. Wlad with a KO in 8.

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You think Tyson fought in a weaker heavyweight division than Wlad :confused:

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Originally Posted by BIG H

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Originally Posted by eagleskins

Wlad would have destroyed Foreman. It is ridiculous that people try to deny the HW division when a white, non American owns it. Tyson fought in the weakest HW era of all time, and never beat a decent fighter, let alone a good fighter. The good fighters he fought KHTFO. Foreman would have no idea how to deal with a bigger, faster guy than him. Wlad with a KO in 8.

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You think Tyson fought in a weaker heavyweight division than Wlad :confused:

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Yes. The late 80's were an absolute joke. When white fighters absolutely own the divsion it must be weak, right? Both Klitschko's would destroy Tyson without breaking a sweat. Tyson was lucky he never fought Bowe. We all saw what the only 2 good fighters he ever fought did to him.

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Originally Posted by eagleskins

Wlad would have destroyed Foreman. It is ridiculous that people try to deny the HW division when a white, non American owns it. Tyson fought in the weakest HW era of all time, and never beat a decent fighter, let alone a good fighter. The good fighters he fought KHTFO. Foreman would have no idea how to deal with a bigger, faster guy than him. Wlad with a KO in 8.

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Terrible post.

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by eagleskins

Wlad would have destroyed Foreman. It is ridiculous that people try to deny the HW division when a white, non American owns it. Tyson fought in the weakest HW era of all time, and never beat a decent fighter, let alone a good fighter. The good fighters he fought KHTFO. Foreman would have no idea how to deal with a bigger, faster guy than him. Wlad with a KO in 8.

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Terrible post.

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Yeah. Sure. Tyson was a beast. 6 losses. Joke.

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Originally Posted by eagleskins

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by eagleskins

Wlad would have destroyed Foreman. It is ridiculous that people try to deny the HW division when a white, non American owns it. Tyson fought in the weakest HW era of all time, and never beat a decent fighter, let alone a good fighter. The good fighters he fought KHTFO. Foreman would have no idea how to deal with a bigger, faster guy than him. Wlad with a KO in 8.

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Terrible post.

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Yeah. Sure. Tyson was a beast. 6 losses. Joke.

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I guess Ali was a joke with 5 losses and Larry Holmes was a joke with 6 losses. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Taeth

I was just thinking about this today, and baring a big lucky punch I just don't see Foreman standing a chance. I think Wlad would use good movement and his jab and totally keep Foreman at bay. In his day George was so big, but in comparison he is two inches shorter and 25 pounds lighter than Wladimir, and as strong as he was I don't see with his lack of footwork how he would have the power to bull through Wlad's jab.

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You mention Foremans lack of footwork but it was his ability to cut off the ring against Ali which forced the latter to employ his rope-lying tactics. Wlad hasnt the smarts to beat a 24yr old foreman. A 44yr old Foreman maybe over 12 rounds and he'd have to be cautious at that

The problem with a Young Foreman is that he would swing for the fences and wildly too, and more often than not he'd connect...if Wlad was able to establish the jab and work behind it without getting tired I see no problem vs Young Foreman.

I see 0 problem vs Old Foreman, the guys who had trouble vs him were the guys trying to stop him, that may have fooled a 25 year old Wladimir but not a 30 year old Wladimir. If Shannon freakin Briggs can last the distance vs him then so could Wladimir.....Shannon did lose that fight though.

A 1972/73 Foreman would have a field day with today's Heavyweights, Liston would have a party with these clowns posing as Heavyweight champions.

Foreman probably would have got to Wlad in the later rounds and behind on points as Wlad tires and wilts.

Foreman kills Wlad the end!

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Originally Posted by BIG H

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Originally Posted by eagleskins

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Originally Posted by ICB

Terrible post.

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Yeah. Sure. Tyson was a beast. 6 losses. Joke.

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I guess Ali was a joke with 5 losses and Larry Holmes was a joke with 6 losses. :rolleyes:

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And Evander with 10 is a total clown i suppose???