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Pacs biggest jump in weight only happend over the last couple of years. so yes if we focus on weight then it actually does look more dodgey. And you can't bring floyd into this. Why? cuz he past the test! LOL theres no question marks.
How many other fighters were accused, offer the chance of testing and refused (and thats not even mentioning the amount of money involved)? Please let me know and i'll be talking exactly the same way about those guys too.
LEt's not forget that Pac has agreed to everything and was waiting on PBF's response this past week and its floyd that's ghost...Quote:
Originally Posted by Hornfinger
As opposed to floyd's big jump (11 pounds) from 119-130 when he first started would be roughly 4 weight classes given and extra pound.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hornfinger
I like Foreman over Latimore, but a well-conditioned Kirkland would beat Foreman. Foreman is a good fighter at 154. He came up in the amateurs in NYC winning a lot of fights, that is no coincidence. He's got heart. As you said he's got good movement. He is not the biggest puncher and he is not the fastest, but he's not slow and he's not featherfisted. He's a good boxer. Nothing extraordinary. In terms of how good he is, to me, he's like a Luis Collazo of the 154's. Actually, a few steps down. He was a perfect opponent for Cotto.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseWhat the hell do you see in Foreman aside from.....being a Jew I guess. He has no power. His movement is good. Not great. He doesn't take advantage of his height as much as he should. Really why the lust? Kirkland would wreck him badlyQuote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesdon't know what you see in Kirkland aside from power, IMO the dude is extremely overrated, anyone with good reach a good solid jab and a strong right hand will school Kirkland, add in Foreman's movement and i'd say he has a decent shot at giving Kirkland problems, and i'd have Foreman over Latimore cause well as you said he's utter crapQuote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise60-40? Your kidding me, right? Try 96-4 in Kirkland's favor. He wrecks Foreman. And wrecks him badly. He gets 4% only cuz I can see Kirkland maybe being DQ for hitting Foreman while down or something. Lara still has a lot to prove. But from what I seen so far I got no problem taking him over Foreman. Latimore is mediocre. But so is Foreman. In that fight i would call it 60-40. In Latimore's favor. Not understanding the lust for Foreman. Why do people talk like he's a great fighter or something? He's not. Not even close. What do you see in him? Are you a Boriqua Jew or something?Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralescompletely forgot about Dzinziruk, Lara hasn't really done anything to prove he's a sure thing, and Latimore well no, he looked good against an old Spinks and well taken to the limit by Powell in his last loss, Kirkland after a few warm up fights would probably beat him but Kirkland is completely vulnerable to straight right hands (the reason i always felt Forrest would have murdered him) and well Foreman has a decent right although not much power, i'd say it's a 60/40 fight in Kirkland's favor cause you have to factor in that Wolfe isn't gonna be training him anymoreQuote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseNot only did Santos go half ass but he was coming off a long ass lay off. And it showed. He's also on the decline. And it still took Foreman's best performance to beat him.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesSantos wasn't rated as a B fighter and although he basically gave a half ass effort, Foreman put on the fight of his life, and IMO has the tools to beat most of the other guys at 154 aside from Williams, Martinez, Cotto, and maybe AnguloQuote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseIt was still Yuri Foreman he was facing. The same Foreman who really lost to Andrey Tsurkan and Anthony Thompson. He was never a threat.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoraleshe was completely outboxing him and rocked him already numerous times before Foreman's knee went out so don't even act like it made a differenceQuote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseHe stopped a crippled fighter who couldn't punch. And your bragging about that?Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoraleslike i said on the other post hahaha live it up cause it's the only win you can clutch on to, ohhh and who still has a license to fight in the US and holds a world title right now? ohhhh right that'd be Miguel Cotto lol not like Margarito who has to now make a living fighting tomato cans in little chinchorros in Tijuana hahahahaQuote:
Originally Posted by milmascaras1
I'll agree and say Cotto looked good under Emmanuel. But he looked good beating a B fighter. A B fighter who couldn't hurt him.
And those ain't the only names. Erislandy Lara and Sergiy Dzinziruk would also beat him. James Kirkland and even a Deandre Latimore would just wreck him
Bob Arum has said they agreed to have the blood being tested or how they are fine with a blood test but didn't want to go into details:rolleyes:. I am yet to hear/see Bob Arum say that they totally agree to an Olympic Style Random Blood/Urine Tests just like Shane Mosley did with no problem whatsoever. If there is a video out there on YouTube where Bob Arum agrees to it just like that, I would like to see it. Not just a vague "we have agreed to some tests...things have been negotiated, just waiting on Floyd...". Can't really trust a guy who is known to be a snake, support and defend a cheat, and look for contradicting excuses to not have his guy's blood tested.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweatherLEt's not forget that Pac has agreed to everything and was waiting on PBF's response this past week and its floyd that's ghost...Quote:
Originally Posted by Hornfinger
What's the matter, can't trust the press? Medias like yahoo boxing, fight news, ESPN's Dan Rafael and many more qouted Arum's statements regarding the drug issue. He has been pretty much vocal about Pac already agreeing to the USADA blood/urine random testing LEADING UP TO THE FIGHT... which means there's no 7,10,14, or 20 days window like Floyd and Shane did.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChinoBob Arum has said they agreed to have the blood being tested or how they are fine with a blood test but didn't want to go into details:rolleyes:. I am yet to hear/see Bob Arum say that they totally agree to an Olympic Style Random Blood/Urine Tests just like Shane Mosley did with no problem whatsoever. If there is a video out there on YouTube where Bob Arum agrees to it just like that, I would like to see it. Not just a vague "we have agreed to some tests...things have been negotiated, just waiting on Floyd...". Can't really trust a guy who is known to be a snake, support and defend a cheat, and look for contradicting excuses to not have his guy's blood tested.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweatherLEt's not forget that Pac has agreed to everything and was waiting on PBF's response this past week and its floyd that's ghost...Quote:
Originally Posted by Hornfinger
again that's what Arum said, but well as we all know Bob Arum is full of shit, if Mayweather doesn't want to sign now (even if it's with a valid excuse) Pacquiao should go ahead and look for another fight (although i don't think it should be against Cotto or Margarito)Quote:
Originally Posted by PacstraightleftWhat's the matter, can't trust the press? Medias like yahoo boxing, fight news, ESPN's Dan Rafael and many more qouted Arum's statements regarding the drug issue. He has been pretty much vocal about Pac already agreeing to the USADA blood/urine random testing LEADING UP TO THE FIGHT... which means there's no 7,10,14, or 20 days window like Floyd and Shane did.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChinoBob Arum has said they agreed to have the blood being tested or how they are fine with a blood test but didn't want to go into details:rolleyes:. I am yet to hear/see Bob Arum say that they totally agree to an Olympic Style Random Blood/Urine Tests just like Shane Mosley did with no problem whatsoever. If there is a video out there on YouTube where Bob Arum agrees to it just like that, I would like to see it. Not just a vague "we have agreed to some tests...things have been negotiated, just waiting on Floyd...". Can't really trust a guy who is known to be a snake, support and defend a cheat, and look for contradicting excuses to not have his guy's blood tested.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweatherLEt's not forget that Pac has agreed to everything and was waiting on PBF's response this past week and its floyd that's ghost...Quote:
Originally Posted by Hornfinger
If Arum is not believable, then why doesn't Mayweather just call Arum's bluff and agree to the fight in principle? The actual blood test issue will then come out in the open and we'll know.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesagain that's what Arum said, but well as we all know Bob Arum is full of shit, if Mayweather doesn't want to sign now (even if it's with a valid excuse) Pacquiao should go ahead and look for another fight (although i don't think it should be against Cotto or Margarito)Quote:
Originally Posted by PacstraightleftWhat's the matter, can't trust the press? Medias like yahoo boxing, fight news, ESPN's Dan Rafael and many more qouted Arum's statements regarding the drug issue. He has been pretty much vocal about Pac already agreeing to the USADA blood/urine random testing LEADING UP TO THE FIGHT... which means there's no 7,10,14, or 20 days window like Floyd and Shane did.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChinoBob Arum has said they agreed to have the blood being tested or how they are fine with a blood test but didn't want to go into details:rolleyes:. I am yet to hear/see Bob Arum say that they totally agree to an Olympic Style Random Blood/Urine Tests just like Shane Mosley did with no problem whatsoever. If there is a video out there on YouTube where Bob Arum agrees to it just like that, I would like to see it. Not just a vague "we have agreed to some tests...things have been negotiated, just waiting on Floyd...". Can't really trust a guy who is known to be a snake, support and defend a cheat, and look for contradicting excuses to not have his guy's blood tested.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweatherLEt's not forget that Pac has agreed to everything and was waiting on PBF's response this past week and its floyd that's ghost...Quote:
Originally Posted by Hornfinger
If there is a discrepancy with the blood/urine drug test issue, then Floyd may have a legitimate excuse. But at this point, his silence is highly suspicious.
well Ellerbe has already spoke on his behalf, so basically we're left with who do we believe, both have history of stretching the truth or well telling blatant lies, this crap will be cleared up soon enough, i say if after August 2nd Floyd doesn't speak on his own behalf well he deserves anything that comes his way, regardless if Roger gets jail time or notQuote:
Originally Posted by InTheNeutralCornerIf Arum is not believable, then why doesn't Mayweather just call Arum's bluff and agree to the fight in principle? The actual blood test issue will then come out in the open and we'll know.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesagain that's what Arum said, but well as we all know Bob Arum is full of shit, if Mayweather doesn't want to sign now (even if it's with a valid excuse) Pacquiao should go ahead and look for another fight (although i don't think it should be against Cotto or Margarito)Quote:
Originally Posted by PacstraightleftWhat's the matter, can't trust the press? Medias like yahoo boxing, fight news, ESPN's Dan Rafael and many more qouted Arum's statements regarding the drug issue. He has been pretty much vocal about Pac already agreeing to the USADA blood/urine random testing LEADING UP TO THE FIGHT... which means there's no 7,10,14, or 20 days window like Floyd and Shane did.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChinoBob Arum has said they agreed to have the blood being tested or how they are fine with a blood test but didn't want to go into details:rolleyes:. I am yet to hear/see Bob Arum say that they totally agree to an Olympic Style Random Blood/Urine Tests just like Shane Mosley did with no problem whatsoever. If there is a video out there on YouTube where Bob Arum agrees to it just like that, I would like to see it. Not just a vague "we have agreed to some tests...things have been negotiated, just waiting on Floyd...". Can't really trust a guy who is known to be a snake, support and defend a cheat, and look for contradicting excuses to not have his guy's blood tested.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweatherLEt's not forget that Pac has agreed to everything and was waiting on PBF's response this past week and its floyd that's ghost...Quote:
Originally Posted by Hornfinger
If there is a discrepancy with the blood/urine drug test issue, then Floyd may have a legitimate excuse. But at this point, his silence is highly suspicious.
Floyd didn't need anybody to do the talking for him before. Why now?Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoraleswell Ellerbe has already spoke on his behalf, so basically we're left with who do we believe, both have history of stretching the truth or well telling blatant lies, this crap will be cleared up soon enough, i say if after August 2nd Floyd doesn't speak on his own behalf well he deserves anything that comes his way, regardless if Roger gets jail time or notQuote:
Originally Posted by InTheNeutralCornerIf Arum is not believable, then why doesn't Mayweather just call Arum's bluff and agree to the fight in principle? The actual blood test issue will then come out in the open and we'll know.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesagain that's what Arum said, but well as we all know Bob Arum is full of shit, if Mayweather doesn't want to sign now (even if it's with a valid excuse) Pacquiao should go ahead and look for another fight (although i don't think it should be against Cotto or Margarito)Quote:
Originally Posted by PacstraightleftWhat's the matter, can't trust the press? Medias like yahoo boxing, fight news, ESPN's Dan Rafael and many more qouted Arum's statements regarding the drug issue. He has been pretty much vocal about Pac already agreeing to the USADA blood/urine random testing LEADING UP TO THE FIGHT... which means there's no 7,10,14, or 20 days window like Floyd and Shane did.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChinoBob Arum has said they agreed to have the blood being tested or how they are fine with a blood test but didn't want to go into details:rolleyes:. I am yet to hear/see Bob Arum say that they totally agree to an Olympic Style Random Blood/Urine Tests just like Shane Mosley did with no problem whatsoever. If there is a video out there on YouTube where Bob Arum agrees to it just like that, I would like to see it. Not just a vague "we have agreed to some tests...things have been negotiated, just waiting on Floyd...". Can't really trust a guy who is known to be a snake, support and defend a cheat, and look for contradicting excuses to not have his guy's blood tested.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweatherLEt's not forget that Pac has agreed to everything and was waiting on PBF's response this past week and its floyd that's ghost...Quote:
Originally Posted by Hornfinger
If there is a discrepancy with the blood/urine drug test issue, then Floyd may have a legitimate excuse. But at this point, his silence is highly suspicious.
But August 2nd is around the corner. Just don't set your hopes high.
Marg wont be the 1st taller opponent Pac has beaten. Speed is the key, particularly against a slow come forward fighter. I can Manny darting in and out of range all night getting his shots off and not being hit back. Marg was a good fighter but it remains to be seen if he can still walk through shots like he used to cuz last time I saw him against a 38 year old he took a beating that bordered on rape.Tony showed that with concrete wraps he could eventually wear Cotto down but without em he got smoked by an old man. Pacs in his prime and if he begins to have any trouble with Margs style he can fall back on his superior footwork and outbox Marg. He wont try to outblast him right away but I think Marg will take so many clean shots that will be quite easy for Manny to do what he likes with him. Pac wont have the 1 shot power of Shane but he will wear Marg down like he did to Diaz. Just watch Tonys last fight, the indestructable fighter from yesteryear we remember was replaced when his handwraps were and he will never be the same again.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyFoldsMargarito is a very active fighter, and he cuts the ring off better than anyone would want to give him credit for. Problem with the Mosley fight is he was out-gunned all the way throughout the match. He doesn't know how to find room to breathe or tie up. I give him a ton of credit for his fighting style and he is a blood and guts warrior. He also stays in tremendous shape. I give Mosley full credit for beating him like he did. I don't think Pac will beat him in the same fashion. Simply for one reason.Quote:
Originally Posted by TaethThe problem is Pacquiao won't get the same leverage against a guy who is 5'11, I think he would really have to work the body, and to do so he will have to get inside. Another thing is Manny might be throw 70-90 punches a round, but Marg usually throws 90-110 punches a round. WHen Manny fought Clottey he threw in the 1200's in terms of punches, Margarito threw over 1700.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pacstraightleft
I honestly don't think Margarito has the speed to beat Manny who shouldn't buckle like Cotto did under the pressure, but this could be very dangerous if Margarito actually learns to cut off the ring and not just charge straight forward.
Margarito is 5'11" pac is barely 5'7"
Firstly, Margerito probably doesn't deserve a payday of this magnitude! Pacman should outbox him in and out all day long, but it's definitely a toughy, especially considering Margerito takes the term 'granite chin' to a whole new level!
Shane Mosley already showed that if you hit it enough you can crack it and although Pacquiao doesn't hit as hard as Mosley he does throw more and has the stamina to do it all 12 rounds, IMO he stops Margarito around the 9th or 10thQuote:
Originally Posted by lamble39
Margarito's very underrated uppercut will be the key punch coming in. I can see him catching Pacquiao jumping in and dropping him hard. This fight should end with Pacquiao's corner stopping it
It'll be similar to Pac-Clottey...
No way Margarito will be as inactive as Clottey was. No wayQuote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMick
I could have been more clear on my comment....Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseNo way Margarito will be as inactive as Clottey was. No wayQuote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMick
Fixed it now.
Of course we all know Margarito is far more active and will bring more in 2 rds. of the fight then if Clottey fought Pac twice.
The end result will be the same a Pac win.
Pacroid AKA Manny Catchweight ;D
Theres a new sign in The Wild Card gym that says..
'If ya can't beat em, weight drain em'
The FIRST person thinking this is a good fight and that Margacheato can win.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise
FICKLE is the word you are looking for.Quote:
Originally Posted by HornfingerSo if I get accused of killing somone, as long as I don't turn up to court I'm innocent?Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
If I have the oppotunity to clear my name and earn a few million off it at the same time but refuse it all rather than go to court I'm innocent anyway am I?
People need to stop being so thickle.
I don't know if Pacquiao did something to you when you were younger, or what, but there's no reason to harbor that much resentment for a fighter.
Beating a fighter for the first time, second time, whatever... they are professional athletes. You are a fanboy, by declaring that a fighter has nothing to offer after a loss. Think about what you are saying. How about Glen Johnson? Emmanuel Augustas? Hell, Pacquiao's got a couple KO losses on his record...
WHAT IS YOUR POINT? We are trying to determine whether this is a logical fight, and you still can't get over whether Pac is taking PEDs.
And Why wouldn't we think that? It stands to reason, that someone who is willing to do something that dangerous at a life's expense is capable of committing that crime another time. Toni is NOT A VICTIM.Quote:
Everyone on this site thought margarito was a fair sports man till he got found out. Now since that everyone on hear is screaming that toni cheated his whole carear.
Pacquiao refused to take a random drug test, yes. Earlier this year, yes. But he did not have a contract for a fight, nor was there any reason why he should have to. Mayweather's camp demanded he take a drug test, under suspicion only. That is no different than me asking you to take a drug test right now.Quote:
The ONLY reason why there is no evidence of pac is cuz he refused testing.
... Yeah I am pretty sure you would say no, Right?
You must didn't read the entire thread...I think the only reason pac wins is because Margo will be paid off to keep the pac-pbf fight at optimum marketability...Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratThe FIRST person thinking this is a good fight and that Margacheato can win.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise
This is a good fight! Pac wins because he is better than Margarito simply put in almost every way. But Marg has a great work rate and will not be knocked out by Pacman I expect it to be a split decision war!
Tony doesn't have the best defense out there and relies on his tough chin/jaw to walk forward like he did against Miguel Cotto (its not like he put plaster on his chin/jaw, did he?). Therefore, considering Manny's punch output per round and power, I can see Tony going down once again. I hope they fight up in 154 and not weight-drain Tony.
Is it a logical fight. Yes. The two dodgyest fuckers of this era of the sport in a ring together. It makes perfect sence.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyFoldsFICKLE is the word you are looking for.Quote:
Originally Posted by HornfingerSo if I get accused of killing somone, as long as I don't turn up to court I'm innocent?Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
If I have the oppotunity to clear my name and earn a few million off it at the same time but refuse it all rather than go to court I'm innocent anyway am I?
People need to stop being so thickle.
I don't know if Pacquiao did something to you when you were younger, or what, but there's no reason to harbor that much resentment for a fighter.
Beating a fighter for the first time, second time, whatever... they are professional athletes. You are a fanboy, by declaring that a fighter has nothing to offer after a loss. Think about what you are saying. How about Glen Johnson? Emmanuel Augustas? Hell, Pacquiao's got a couple KO losses on his record...
WHAT IS YOUR POINT? We are trying to determine whether this is a logical fight, and you still can't get over whether Pac is taking PEDs.
Fans the big loser in Manny Pacquiao vs Antonio Margarito - News - FOX Sports on MSN
I think this article says it all. It sums up very well what a lot of us boxing fans feel about the Pacquiao-Margacheato matchup.
Nobody ever claim boxing didn't have it's share of idiotic fans.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
That article pretty much says it all.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseNobody ever claim boxing didn't have it's share of idiotic fans.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
You're right... some of them even reside right here on this forum.
yea, pretty much anyone who thinks that Margarito should get off so easily needs to get their heads checkedQuote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseNobody ever claim boxing didn't have it's share of idiotic fans.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
You're right... some of them even reside right here on this forum.
The question is does Margarito have 1 punch kayo power if yes then Manny is in deep trouble. Tony takes 3 maybe even five to land one, can he do that all night with PAC. Can he pressure PAC to the point of Fatigue. At this point in their careers I give Tony a puncher's chance.
Why is this fight even at 154? And why is Margarito getting a big pay day.
I think most people said it best that Pac should be fighting a Bradley or Berto, I see it as winnable and new blood.
Que?Quote:
Originally Posted by killdaggy
I really just think this will be like the de la Hoya fight for the most part. Pac will hit him bam bam bam from all over the damn place the move and do it all over again over and over. Ain't no way Pac is knocking Tony out , just like aint no way will Tony be able to handle manny's speed. I've always said Floyd would best manny cause he's just a way better boxer buy margarito sure as hell ain't that . Or I could be wrong ....who knows.
Marg looks ripe and ready, hopefully for a beating but he can cause an upset although i do not think he should be allowed to even be given this opportunity.
If Pacman keeps Margarnito in the center of the ring it should be a easy fight.
Been watching alot of Tonys work in gym and first thing....too late in the game to reinvent an experienced model. Garcia may have him trying to box juuuust a bit too much. He looks bit tight and leaning into front foot. Your not keeping Manny on outside with that slow jab but more so he can get under what will have to be am 'experienced' straight right follow. Hand speed is night and day. Margarito will get hit and revert to cro mag free thrower but can be put on back foot early if he's over thinking a style that is all new and green to him vs THE elite. Go buck wild and stick with what you know off an early jab (ala Cotto) 1st,2nd round but dont sacrifice volume and forward arsenal.
Cotto landed a good few shots on Pac he was bruised and battered after that fight head bandaged up after having his swollen ear drained. And Clottey didn't throw many but what he did throw basically landed and on target had he thrown more who knows??? I think Pac is going to have trouble with Margarito because he takes one hell of a shot and keeps coming and throwing lots of punches. Margarito last defeats Paul Williams on points with scores of 115-113 twice and 116-112 then his only ever stoppage loss vs Shane Mosley not bad guys to lose against and both bigger and stronger than Pacquiao i see Margarito taking his shots walking him down throwing loads of heavy shots and stopping him late.
Just land 2 to 3 solid shots while absorbing 8 to 12 in return and hope that by the 10th round I have more gas than him.
use my chin as decoy and throw body shots on the inside.
Oh, the horror. That ones going to give me chills in the dark hours of night. I will likely get ghastly flashbacks and break out into a cold sweat. Why do they give him the microphone on these kinds of programmes? It has never made sense to me. For the love of Pete and Dud, please stop! Just interview him and be done with it. Why indulge him in his extremely weak side projects? Who on earth buys a Manny Pac CD? Shocking.