Milmascaras.
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Milmascaras.
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PSL,
lol...my bad, i thought you called the four pinoys the four horsemen. which brings me to my question, which of the following (penalosa bros, luisito espinosa or navarrete) should go into the hall? i think espinosa should eventually get there. in his prime, he was a great featherweight. i always respected his boxing skills and overall ability!
Gotta agree with you.... Take away the single Mosley loss, and the scandal, and most people would consider this as tough a fight from Manny as a fight with Mayweather would be...Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
Manny is incredibly skilled, fast, accurate, with incredible defense, and could make Margarito look slow and incredibly easy to hit... But this is no over the hill Oscar DLH... Margarito is an animal in there and if he's got the same heart in there that we saw of him before his downfall, Manny will take a HUGE amount of credit from gritting out a win against a very serious and dangerous fighter...
It's only Manny's supernatural talent that stretches odds out and leans most people towards a relatively easy victory for him... Certainly has nothing to do with a real lack on Margarito's part..
I have a horrible feeling that Tony is only here for a payday and for some sort of 'welcome back' into boxing.
I say horrible not because I want Manny to lose but because he should loose.
It's an interesting fight, and fair play to Pac for keeping busy and not just waiting for the final big payday against Floyd.
If you look at the 'Tale of the Tape', there should only be one winner. Margarito is bigger in every way that Pac. Lets not forget that Pac was a FLYWEIGHT, and Margarito was a massive welterweight.
Dont forget that Margarito was the most dangerous, most avoided fighter at Welter for some time.
The old adage that 'a good big 'un beats a good little 'un' used to be correct in the vast majority of cases ....... but I think two things have changed that:
- the increased number of weight divisions, making safe movement up and dpwn much more possible that when there were only 8
- the amazing advances in nutrition and body science. If Henry Armstrong and Ray Robinson had access to this knowledge, God only knows how many weights they would have been champs in.
BUT - Margarito has always been slow, and we saw how Pac kept up a killing pace for the full fight against Joshua Clottey, another big big welterweight. Margarito is quite lumbering and I'm not sure he is a one-hit stopper of a puncher (even with his gloves loaded, he tended to wear people down, and Pac has a good chin)
I'll put my four penn'orth in now, rather than be wise after the event ..... I think Pac starts brightly, outspeeding margarito and hitting him at will. Margarito is unfazed and actually begins to run forward at Pac to try and bully and maul him, using his huge weight advantage in the ring. I think the fight turns messy, but neither man can really hurt the other.
It comes downto skill and conditioning ....... Pac has more stamina, he built up an early lead and I think he takes a hard fought UD
I agree with a lot of this post. Pac should be too fast for Tony and the punches that hurt the most are the ones a boxer doesn't see coming. I also agree that in the past Margarito was dangerous but it appears that was mostly due to the use of illegal hand wraps. He looked bad in the two fights where we know for certain he didn't use illegal wraps.Quote:
Originally Posted by GAME
As people have mentioned, what Margarito has going for him is his advantages in size. If you look at all the fights Margarito didn't look his best in, including his last two, they were against big welterweights or junior middleweights (e.g. Paul Williams, Shane Mosley, Joshua Clottey, and his last opponent). Here, Pacquiao is a small welterweight (and in my opinion, he really is a junior welterweight). There is the potential for the disparity in size to play a big role in this fight.
On the other hand, the cynic in me thinks that Manny is fighting Margarito now because Top Rank knows Margarito isn't too tough without his concrete wraps. Pacquiao is being matched carefully at these higher weights. There can be no denying that. Cotto and Hatton were on the slide and Clottey is too defensive for a fast fighter like Pacquiao. I'm not saying those wins weren't great wins, because they were, but if Top Rank is matching Pacquiao against someone other than Mayweather with the Mayweather fight on the horizon (at least when this fight was signed), I don't see them taking a big risk, not with that much money potentially available in the near future.
The first part of Games' post I don't agree with is that this fight isn't intriguing. It may be at a catchweight, which is stupid, but Margarito really is a junior middleweight anyway you look at it. He'll walk into the ring probably close to 165. So, even with advantages in speed and boxing skills, Pacman is fighting a much bigger dude who has a proven chin, which means Pacquiao will have to fight tough for 12 rounds. That to me is intriguing. What's also intriguing is that if Manny wins, he's effectively cleaned out the welterweight division other than Shane and Floyd (I know this fight is at 151). When you consider that Floyd has only fought 1 top welterweight in his career, what Manny is doing is pretty damn remarkable.
The other part of Games' post that I disagree with is that he insinuated that Haye-Harrison is more intriguing than this card. First, why not both? Second, the card is pretty stacked. Vera brings the fight so even if Pavlik dominates, it should be exciting while it lasts. Also, you get Rigondeux and Mike Jones versus a credible opponent for the first time. And the fight is in Dallas stadium, which means there will thousands of people there cheering it one, which should make for an exciting atmosphere.
I wasnt saying Haye vs Harisson is more intruging. I said Pac vs Tonty will be a disapointment so lets hope Audley vs Haye isnt a letdown too or it will be a bad night of boxing.Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratI agree with a lot of this post. Pac should be too fast for Tony and the punches that hurt the most are the ones a boxer doesn't see coming. I also agree that in the past Margarito was dangerous but it appears that was mostly due to the use of illegal hand wraps. He looked bad in the two fights where we know for certain he didn't use illegal wraps.Quote:
Originally Posted by GAME
As people have mentioned, what Margarito has going for him is his advantages in size. If you look at all the fights Margarito didn't look his best in, including his last two, they were against big welterweights or junior middleweights (e.g. Paul Williams, Shane Mosley, Joshua Clottey, and his last opponent). Here, Pacquiao is a small welterweight (and in my opinion, he really is a junior welterweight). There is the potential for the disparity in size to play a big role in this fight.
On the other hand, the cynic in me thinks that Manny is fighting Margarito now because Top Rank knows Margarito isn't too tough without his concrete wraps. Pacquiao is being matched carefully at these higher weights. There can be no denying that. Cotto and Hatton were on the slide and Clottey is too defensive for a fast fighter like Pacquiao. I'm not saying those wins weren't great wins, because they were, but if Top Rank is matching Pacquiao against someone other than Mayweather with the Mayweather fight on the horizon (at least when this fight was signed), I don't see them taking a big risk, not with that much money potentially available in the near future.
The first part of Games' post I don't agree with is that this fight isn't intriguing. It may be at a catchweight, which is stupid, but Margarito really is a junior middleweight anyway you look at it. He'll walk into the ring probably close to 165. So, even with advantages in speed and boxing skills, Pacman is fighting a much bigger dude who has a proven chin, which means Pacquiao will have to fight tough for 12 rounds. That to me is intriguing. What's also intriguing is that if Manny wins, he's effectively cleaned out the welterweight division other than Shane and Floyd (I know this fight is at 151). When you consider that Floyd has only fought 1 top welterweight in his career, what Manny is doing is pretty damn remarkable.
The other part of Games' post that I disagree with is that he insinuated that Haye-Harrison is more intriguing than this card. First, why not both? Second, the card is pretty stacked. Vera brings the fight so even if Pavlik dominates, it should be exciting while it lasts. Also, you get Rigondeux and Mike Jones versus a credible opponent for the first time. And the fight is in Dallas stadium, which means there will thousands of people there cheering it one, which should make for an exciting atmosphere.
You make some good points about Tonys physical advantages but in terms of what he brings to the table you may be over estimating him. A pre Mosley/handwrap exposed Margarito would have been a good fight for Pac and may well have beaten him but thats not we are dealing with here. After a year out and after getting blown away by Shane Tony looks awful against a nobody. Now he is matched against a speedy guy in his prime?! Tony is not what he was and dont let the media fool you by bringing his past acheivements. What we have is a shopworn fighter getting 1 last payday because is a toprank fighter and is there for the taking. Pac will have to have a really bad night if he is to come a cropper in this one.
Roach predicts a 8 round K.O then gives Margarito a bit of a mind fuck ;D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dbJH...eature=related
Good stuff bro, that line from Roach was a good one.:cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by J da Bomba
i can't stand that crippled loud mouth roach. i hope someone, someday would shut his mouth up for good and puts a cap between his eyes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GAME
I agree with you for the most part, I said as much earlier. I was just giving the counter-arguments. My gut feeling is that this will be fun to watch even if Pacquiao dominates because if anything Margarito has a a beard and a ton of heart. The other thing is that the undercard for the Pacquiao fight should be good so on the whole, the night should be a decent night of boxing.Quote:
Originally Posted by GAMEI wasnt saying Haye vs Harisson is more intruging. I said Pac vs Tonty will be a disapointment so lets hope Audley vs Haye isnt a letdown too or it will be a bad night of boxing.Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratI agree with a lot of this post. Pac should be too fast for Tony and the punches that hurt the most are the ones a boxer doesn't see coming. I also agree that in the past Margarito was dangerous but it appears that was mostly due to the use of illegal hand wraps. He looked bad in the two fights where we know for certain he didn't use illegal wraps.Quote:
Originally Posted by GAME
As people have mentioned, what Margarito has going for him is his advantages in size. If you look at all the fights Margarito didn't look his best in, including his last two, they were against big welterweights or junior middleweights (e.g. Paul Williams, Shane Mosley, Joshua Clottey, and his last opponent). Here, Pacquiao is a small welterweight (and in my opinion, he really is a junior welterweight). There is the potential for the disparity in size to play a big role in this fight.
On the other hand, the cynic in me thinks that Manny is fighting Margarito now because Top Rank knows Margarito isn't too tough without his concrete wraps. Pacquiao is being matched carefully at these higher weights. There can be no denying that. Cotto and Hatton were on the slide and Clottey is too defensive for a fast fighter like Pacquiao. I'm not saying those wins weren't great wins, because they were, but if Top Rank is matching Pacquiao against someone other than Mayweather with the Mayweather fight on the horizon (at least when this fight was signed), I don't see them taking a big risk, not with that much money potentially available in the near future.
The first part of Games' post I don't agree with is that this fight isn't intriguing. It may be at a catchweight, which is stupid, but Margarito really is a junior middleweight anyway you look at it. He'll walk into the ring probably close to 165. So, even with advantages in speed and boxing skills, Pacman is fighting a much bigger dude who has a proven chin, which means Pacquiao will have to fight tough for 12 rounds. That to me is intriguing. What's also intriguing is that if Manny wins, he's effectively cleaned out the welterweight division other than Shane and Floyd (I know this fight is at 151). When you consider that Floyd has only fought 1 top welterweight in his career, what Manny is doing is pretty damn remarkable.
The other part of Games' post that I disagree with is that he insinuated that Haye-Harrison is more intriguing than this card. First, why not both? Second, the card is pretty stacked. Vera brings the fight so even if Pavlik dominates, it should be exciting while it lasts. Also, you get Rigondeux and Mike Jones versus a credible opponent for the first time. And the fight is in Dallas stadium, which means there will thousands of people there cheering it one, which should make for an exciting atmosphere.
You make some good points about Tonys physical advantages but in terms of what he brings to the table you may be over estimating him. A pre Mosley/handwrap exposed Margarito would have been a good fight for Pac and may well have beaten him but thats not we are dealing with here. After a year out and after getting blown away by Shane Tony looks awful against a nobody. Now he is matched against a speedy guy in his prime?! Tony is not what he was and dont let the media fool you by bringing his past acheivements. What we have is a shopworn fighter getting 1 last payday because is a toprank fighter and is there for the taking. Pac will have to have a really bad night if he is to come a cropper in this one.
Marg is bigger and looks ripped in any other sport he would be favourite but Pac has speed and that will win it hopefully.
Someone will have to stop his pacman first ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by milmascaras1
rain,
in boxing anything is possible. it just might happen this time! ;)
True.Quote:
Originally Posted by milmascaras1
And we have this thing we call "odds" too.
see how you're showing your ignorance of the four horsemen and filipino fans. lolQuote:
Originally Posted by milmascaras1
kkisser,
just how am i showing my ignorance? i thought he was referring the four horsemen as the penalosa bros., navarrete and espinosa. who knew!
ummm, you do know the meaning of ignorance, don't you?Quote:
Originally Posted by milmascaras1
kkisser,
yeah, i do know the meaning of ignorance and you are one ignoramous mofo!
Let's be honest now, at this point in time Margarito is no elite fighter, his chin has been cracked, it's rare in boxing history to come back from that kind of beating in the Mosley fight. In fact, those are the kind of fights that takes years away from a fighter, then take into the rustiness, then take into account the power doesn't seem to be there without the wraps. This is a 1 sided mismatch in favor of Pac. All Margarito has going for him is size. Sorry that isn't enough to ko or stop a top 2 p4p fighter in the sport.
bulldog,
you might be right. as much as i am hoping margarito might have something left in the tank, it can't be ignored in the manner that he was destroyed by a semi-washed up shane mosley, almost two years ago. i'm hoping trainer roberto garcia can work wonders for him. but conventional wisdom would suggest that most usually an ascending fighter (pacquiao) beats a descending (margarito) with an exclamation point.
If you call that Shane Mosley of 2 years ago as semi-washed up, what do you then call the Shane Mosley who fought Mayweather?Quote:
Originally Posted by milmascaras1
true, mosley was a completely washed up fighter vs. mayweather. in his prime though, he might have beaten floydie jr..
I'm a Mosley fan but and I have to say, I still don't think he's 'washed up' but I am starting to seriously consider the truth in those BALCO allegations.
If mosley was so washed up when fighting floyd, then why all the hype ? If he'd had fought pac that night would he still be called washed up ? Or even better if in that second round things went different and shane pulled out a win would he be washed up still ? This sport is way too full of excuses and cop outs. Shane lost plain and simple he would've lost two years before that fight and he'd loose if they fought two years from now . Floyd was just a better and smarter fighter. It's not like floyd is 18 years old and fresh out of the olympics his damn self. Is that what his fans will cry if floyd looses ? That he washed up ? No one would accept that excuse from floyd and it shouldn't be accepted by other fighters when they loose. If this 154 fight was actually at 154 then i'd give margo a decent shot but this catchweight garbage, who knows. But if by some miracle margo beats pac (after loosing to shane and his yawn inspiring 10 round decision after) is pac washed up now all of the sudden too ?
sorry, i didn't know you have hang-ups about being ignorant, so i'll let you be. lolQuote:
Originally Posted by milmascaras1
Agree with the whole post except the bold line. Margacheato fought most of his career at 147, and only his last fight was at 154. This fight is at 151. It shouldn't and won't matter. The only reason the catchweight is shite is that it is supposed to be for an 8th weight class when they aren't fighting at 154. But, in terms of that giving Pac an advantage in some way that he wouldn't have had otherwise, I don't buy it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mar
Shane lost pure and simple. It may have been the fight to show the world that Shane is on the slide, but he lost. If people don't recall, Pacquiao's people wanted Shane to fight him at 143, not 147, so Pacquiao's people clearly saw that Shane at 147 could pose some problems and that was after Shane beat Margarito.
$1,000 for anyone to knock Pacquiao down
C'mon Roach you cheap bastard. :) Make it 10 G's.
Pacman does not have better stamina than Margarito they both have amazing stamina but Marg has the record for most punches thrown in a fight.
Pac is faster and more accurate, he'll have to get in close to Marg to hit him as Marg is so much bigger with reach etc. however his in and out movement should be enough!! let's hope he doesn't back up to the ropes and allow marg to unload like he did with Cotto as Marg will just keep punching in that position unlike Cotto who gasses out.
In the middle of the ring Pac will absolutely smash him to bits so he needs to just do what he's supposed to as this SHOULD be a mismatch.
here's what's going to be the difference in the fight. margarito's jab. in his last fight, his jab improved. while he doesn't use his jab all that much, his jab isn't bad and will only get better under roberto garcia. if margarito utilizes his jab effectively, pacquiao could be in trouble.
I think your absolutely right. Margarito's jab will likely keep pacman at bay. With roberto garcia and that jab of his pacquiao could be in serious trouble.Quote:
Originally Posted by milmascaras1
I dont want to sound cheesy but Margarito might be the one entering this fight with the eye of the tiger, coming back for redemption this guy is very hungry to stop our heroic PAC in his tracks. Very dangerous for Manny.
I just hope people will give Manny full credit if he stops Margarito.
pavlik,
if pac beats margarito, i will definitely give him his props. you know, with all this talk about margarito being an "easy" or "stay busy" fight for pacquiao, i think margarito is being taken very lightly by most everyone. and i'm willing to bet he's reading all of this negative stuff about him and it is just going to pump him up.
but yeah, if pacquiao can beat margarito, i will call it like it is and will give pacquiao all the props he deserves.
I don't know about you guys but I think Margarito is close to being a shot fighter, or at the very least semi-washed up.
Arum isn't going to risk Pac losing before the Mayweather fight takes place. Money still rules guys.
I think this is a 50-50 fight at this stage.Tony jabbed the hell out of Cotto in the 1st round but in attempting to back Manny his pressure will see him taking alot of leather off lateral and hand speed where Cotto backs straight and 'sits' along ropes. Pacquioa will have to fight one of the more boxer disciplined fights he's had in last 4 or 5 as Margarito's when getting effected he wont back and his uppercut can be huge on Manny.
bulldog,
you could very well be right. sometimes fans like me, will try to look at the positive side of a fighter who is perceived as going downhill but subconsciously, they may very well know the truth. hope you're wrong though. ;D
ESPN Boxing Analyst Say Margarito Is Pac’s Liveliest Underdog FoeQuote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli
Time to dust off the old Tornado sig spicoli.
C'mon, put it on bro. It's all good. :)