Actually after last nights performance i think he deserves a night out with Ricky Hatton.
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Actually after last nights performance i think he deserves a night out with Ricky Hatton.
So you doubt that boxers have in fact ducked difficult challenges because they know they cannot win?Quote:
Originally Posted by piye
This just in....Wladimir is going to fight again on December 11th that's a pretty quick turn around. The people he's looking at fighting: Tomaz Adamek, Odlanier Solis, Jean Marc Mormek, Denis Boytsov, David Tua....the names don't look all that great, he'd stop each of those guys without much trouble IMO.
Is that a fucking joke? Apart from Adamek those are all bums. And a guy who david haye Ko'ed. audley harrison wouldn't look out of place on that list. Lyle why aren't you going mad about this?Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
the haye hate is jealousy more than anything
i read in another thread el kabong saying hayes power isnt proven at heavyweight :D
No it was reported on boxingscene.com, Solis is no bum he might not be in the best shape but he finished "The Great" Monte Barrett in 2 rounds ;) . I'm not mad because it's all about money HF...I mean he's got to get his bills right? Wlad has to get his money before he has this big money fight with Chicken Little because who knows what will happen after that? Wlad has no pension or retirement that boxing is going to give him...so he has to make his money.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hornfinger
Don't get your panties in a wad HF, #1 Chicken Little is fighting Audley soon and after that fight he probably won't fight again until this time next year #2 Wlad is THE Champion and he wants to defend his titles sooner rather than later and this being an OPTIONAL DEFENSE as a boxing fan, I'm all for the guy fighting as often as possible. Joe Louis had his bum of the month club when no one posed a threat to him, now Wlad is doing a similar thing as a boxing fan I figure that would be a good thing. He's not ducking anyone, not avoiding anyone, he just wants to fight...he's the EPITOME of a Professional. Wlad was ready for Chicken Little, Wlad was ready for Povetkin and those guys ran from him....what do you want him to do wait? That won't help the division.
Will a defense vs any of those people named mean much? Nope not at all....but if Wlad wants to fight them then it's fine by me just so long as it's not taking away chances for him to defend vs one of the guys that ran from him to begin with.
Right...how many guys has he stopped at heavyweight that have never been stopped before? How many PRIME heavyweights has he fought? (maybe 1 if you consider Valuev in his prime) How many Top 10 PRIME heavyweights has he fought? (maybe 1 if you consider Valuev #1 Top 10 and #2 In his prime). Consider the fact that Chicken Little shouldn't even have the belt because it was needlessly stripped from Ruslan Chagaev....whom Wlad fought and beat on short notice.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
I like how the Chicken Little fans can complain about Wlad fighting Sam Peter but never grasp that the only reason that rematch happened is because 2 heavyweight boxers ducked Wlad and so Wlad was left with no other option.
So if you understand that Wlad wants to make some dough fighting a bum before he fights Haye, why don't you accept that Haye is doing the same thing?
After reading all this, I am glad that the NFL season is now in full swing. At least I know the NFC and AFC champs are mandated to compete against each other in the Superbowl.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongNo it was reported on boxingscene.com, Solis is no bum he might not be in the best shape but he finished "The Great" Monte Barrett in 2 rounds ;) . I'm not mad because it's all about money HF...I mean he's got to get his bills right? Wlad has to get his money before he has this big money fight with Chicken Little because who knows what will happen after that? Wlad has no pension or retirement that boxing is going to give him...so he has to make his money.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hornfinger
Don't get your panties in a wad HF, #1 Chicken Little is fighting Audley soon and after that fight he probably won't fight again until this time next year #2 Wlad is THE Champion and he wants to defend his titles sooner rather than later and this being an OPTIONAL DEFENSE as a boxing fan, I'm all for the guy fighting as often as possible. Joe Louis had his bum of the month club when no one posed a threat to him, now Wlad is doing a similar thing as a boxing fan I figure that would be a good thing. He's not ducking anyone, not avoiding anyone, he just wants to fight...he's the EPITOME of a Professional. Wlad was ready for Chicken Little, Wlad was ready for Povetkin and those guys ran from him....what do you want him to do wait? That won't help the division.
Will a defense vs any of those people named mean much? Nope not at all....but if Wlad wants to fight them then it's fine by me just so long as it's not taking away chances for him to defend vs one of the guys that ran from him to begin with.
Right...how many guys has he stopped at heavyweight that have never been stopped before? How many PRIME heavyweights has he fought? (maybe 1 if you consider Valuev in his prime) How many Top 10 PRIME heavyweights has he fought? (maybe 1 if you consider Valuev #1 Top 10 and #2 In his prime). Consider the fact that Chicken Little shouldn't even have the belt because it was needlessly stripped from Ruslan Chagaev....whom Wlad fought and beat on short notice.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
I like how the Chicken Little fans can complain about Wlad fighting Sam Peter but never grasp that the only reason that rematch happened is because 2 heavyweight boxers ducked Wlad and so Wlad was left with no other option.
Only in boxing with 5-6 champs per division where shit like this happens.
Ruiz
Valuev
Ruiz
Haye
Ruiz
Povetkin
Ruiz
Holyfield
Ruiz
In that order ;)
I was being facetious ono...Wlad has an optional defense and obviously Chicken Little is tied up for a fight right now and won't be ready in December (we can only hope he's ready in 2011) and Alexander Povetkin is "not ready" yet but Wlad wants to make an optional defense so IMO this will be more of an exhibition of skill than a challenge....even if its Adamek or Solis who are decent opposition, as decent as Chicken Little or Povetkin.Quote:
Originally Posted by ono
The only reasons you guys are against this is because of the 3rd and 4th choices....if Wlad fights Adamek or Solis they are worthy challengers, the only question is will they take the fight. Tua and Mormeck would just be stay busy fights and like I said exhibitions.
Either way, that's still exactly the same thing as what Haye's doing.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongI was being facetious ono...Wlad has an optional defense and obviously Chicken Little is tied up for a fight right now and won't be ready in December (we can only hope he's ready in 2011) and Alexander Povetkin is "not ready" yet but Wlad wants to make an optional defense so IMO this will be more of an exhibition of skill than a challenge....even if its Adamek or Solis who are decent opposition, as decent as Chicken Little or Povetkin.Quote:
Originally Posted by ono
The only reasons you guys are against this is because of the 3rd and 4th choices....if Wlad fights Adamek or Solis they are worthy challengers, the only question is will they take the fight. Tua and Mormeck would just be stay busy fights and like I said exhibitions.
Ono please explain that logic because the way I see it: 1. Wlad isn't ducking anyone 2. Wlad fighting in December has 0 effect on a fight vs Chicken Little (who fights roughly once a year) and 3. He's a champion looking to defend his title as often as possible....so how is that bad?
He'll TRY to fight the best opponent but there's no guarantee that the opponent will agree to fight Wlad.
Its not like he's talking a ton of shit and then fighting Audley Harrison to KEEP from fighting the best opponents. Wlad will fight in December and then Chicken Little will be ready come summer, no harm no foul, just a stay busy fight.
Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongNo it was reported on boxingscene.com, Solis is no bum he might not be in the best shape but he finished "The Great" Monte Barrett in 2 rounds ;) . I'm not mad because it's all about money HF...I mean he's got to get his bills right? Wlad has to get his money before he has this big money fight with Chicken Little because who knows what will happen after that? Wlad has no pension or retirement that boxing is going to give him...so he has to make his money.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hornfinger
Don't get your panties in a wad HF, #1 Chicken Little is fighting Audley soon and after that fight he probably won't fight again until this time next year #2 Wlad is THE Champion and he wants to defend his titles sooner rather than later and this being an OPTIONAL DEFENSE as a boxing fan, I'm all for the guy fighting as often as possible. Joe Louis had his bum of the month club when no one posed a threat to him, now Wlad is doing a similar thing as a boxing fan I figure that would be a good thing. He's not ducking anyone, not avoiding anyone, he just wants to fight...he's the EPITOME of a Professional. Wlad was ready for Chicken Little, Wlad was ready for Povetkin and those guys ran from him....what do you want him to do wait? That won't help the division.
Will a defense vs any of those people named mean much? Nope not at all....but if Wlad wants to fight them then it's fine by me just so long as it's not taking away chances for him to defend vs one of the guys that ran from him to begin with.
Right...how many guys has he stopped at heavyweight that have never been stopped before? How many PRIME heavyweights has he fought? (maybe 1 if you consider Valuev in his prime) How many Top 10 PRIME heavyweights has he fought? (maybe 1 if you consider Valuev #1 Top 10 and #2 In his prime). Consider the fact that Chicken Little shouldn't even have the belt because it was needlessly stripped from Ruslan Chagaev....whom Wlad fought and beat on short notice.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
I like how the Chicken Little fans can complain about Wlad fighting Sam Peter but never grasp that the only reason that rematch happened is because 2 heavyweight boxers ducked Wlad and so Wlad was left with no other option.
Wlads allowed a 'just about the money' fight then and Haye isn't? Gotta love the hypocrissy.
Listen, the Klitschko's are no joke. It's a shame that Haye fans can't accept it. Wlad or Vitali have decimated the entire crop of top ten heavyweights that will get into the ring with them. Eddie Chambers, Chris Arreola, Sam Peter, Ruslan Chagaev, Tony Thompson, Sultain Ibragimov. I mean geez. There is very little left to prove. The funny thing is that the criticism that the Klitschko's receive reminds of the criticism of Floyd. They similarly employ a safety first approach to boxing. The difference is that the Klitschko's clean out entire divisions. Floyd hasn't unified one division he's fought in. You may not like their styles, but they are dominant, first-ballot HOF's. I want to see Haye fight a Klitschko just because it will give them a chance to put to rest any criticism.
And there is no excuse for Haye. Two offers to fight the best and then he chooses Audley Harrison? Harrison wouldn't even make the above list for the Klitschko's.
Lyle, the only thing I disagree with is regarding Povetkin. I mean the guy only has 19 professional fights. Klitschko has what 58? He is a little green for a fight with one of them. And it's not like the Klitschko's are going anywhere.
Outside of Haye and Povetkin, Adamek is the only guy out there who will actually fight the Klitschko's and has a chance, albeit small, of putting up some resistance.
HF are you dense? #1 The whole "money fight" thing was sarcasm #2 Wlad fighting in December has 0 effect on a fight vs Chicken Little.
Unlike Chicken Little Wlad hasn't run off at the mouth to anyone he isn't willing to fight.
he has stopped every heavyweight he has fought appart from valuevQuote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
ruiz had been stopped before but not for a long time and i would say that valuev probably has one of the best chins in heavyweight boxing and haye shook him up in the last round with one punch
i agree with you on one point, haye perhaps shouldnt be the champ coz i dont think he beat valuev, but theres no questioning his power
why do you hate him so much? would you honestly prefer the klits as the champs? I am english and a haye fan so perhaps i am biast but the heavyweight scene has never been as dull as it is now for as long as i remember
i disagree with people who say the heavyweights out there now are no good, i just think there are no rivalries forming between exciting fighters because noone can get anywhere near the klits
they are extremely good fighters, probably the most affective heavyweights in history, i think theyd have beaten ali, tyson, holmes, etc, but they couldnt be anymore boring
at least haye brings a bit of excitement
Speaking of which, usually when there is a debate about Wlad and Haye, Kirkland Laing usually goes at it with Lyle. I sure wonder where he is?:p
Lyle- Whats your views on this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by 0james0
As far as I've heard the deal he signed to fight Wlad and the deal he was offered and agreed to with Vitali were roughly the same and only the rematches seemed to bother him before he won the WBA title.
I don't care your still a hypocrit. Wlad is boxing shite opponants, but your fine with that cuz it's wlad and you have your nose up his arse.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
You are an absolute moron. One of the biggest I have seen.Quote:
Originally Posted by HornfingerI don't care your still a hypocrit. Wlad is boxing shite opponants, but your fine with that cuz it's wlad and you have your nose up his arse.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
Wlad fights shit opponents? Look at the resume, clown. Now compare it with Haye.
OK let's look at the FACTS...the Harrison fight is coming up soon (October/November I forget which month) and of course the WBA title holder likes to take time off after each fight. Wlad, who just fought this weekend is putting in 1 more fight this year which should keep him on schedule for a Summer showdown with the WBA title holder and you think its poor form? Why? What do you want Wlad to do? Do you want him to wait, because he tried it once during the whole "I injured my back shadow boxing" drama and we'd still be waiting right now if it weren't for Wlad wanting to prove he's the best.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hornfinger
My honest opinion on the quick turn around #1 He can get a lot of title defenses in he's only 34 I haven't looked at the numbers but maybe they make a run on Louis' 25 in a row #2 Manny wants Wlad to get credit in the US (same as he wanted for Lennox Lewis) and he's turning Wlad back from safety first to throwing big bombs earlier and it'll take a while for Wlad to get comfortable with that but he will eventually and it'll be good for everyone.
You're a bit too much of an optimistic person.Quote:
Originally Posted by palmerq
I think Haye was justified in pulling out of the first fight and in turning down Vitali's offer. However, those moves did begin to cast doubt on how truthful he was being with his claims about cleaning up the HW division etc. and it is very hard to defend him turning down Klitscko's last offer in favor of a fight with Harrison.Quote:
Originally Posted by 0james0
There was a sheer gulf in class Saturday night and Wlad should have had him out of there early - would have got people talking more.
Haye would have had Peter inside 3 I reckon
3! What are you smoking?!? A guy that cautiously boxed Nicolay Valuev would steamroll Sam Peter?!?! Wow... Just wow.
Maybe not inside 3, but I have no doubt the result vs Haye would have been the same.
I'd seriously doubt Peter vs even Audley.
Anyone who could survive that first round can beat Peter. He was woeful.
Sam may well be shot now but keep in mind, just because Wlad makes someone look bad doesn't mean its easy to beat them.
You are right, Haye would not have Koed Peter that early, you cannot criticise Wlad for beating what is out there. At least he is taking the best available fighters out there and not Audley Harrison.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
that would have been my bet yes, Haye in 3 - I don't smoke, it's bad for youQuote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
If I got in the ring with Ronnie Corbett and he went for me gung ho style I would say "Ronnie are you fucking mental ??" Then twat him big time.
So of course Haye fought Valuev cautiously, he's fucking massive ! - as he would have to do Klits too
Haye probably wouldn't even step into the ring with Peter.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterYou are right, Haye would not have Koed Peter that early, you cannot criticise Wlad for beating what is out there. At least he is taking the best available fighters out there and not Audley Harrison.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
I'm taking nothing away from Wlad, he got the job done efficiently and never really looked in any difficulty.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
Ita just a shame that Peter couldn't really do his game plan for longer than 90 seconds. You could see how he wanted to fight when he started, loads of head movement, throwing big shots, ducking and weaving around the ring. After that he just plodded forward taking punches.
It's a shame as he did look decent coming up to the fight, but he clearly wasn't. Even the Wlad fans must be disapointed it wasn't more of a challenge.
I have no problem with 10th round KO's, to me it doesn't mean you are any worse than someone who blows them away in 3 rounds, the late KO's generally come from the more experienced pros who have learnt not to throw it all on the line to get an opponent out early.
I just think that both Haye and the K's are milking this a bit and neither is an inocent part in all this.
No, but when "Fat" Eddie Chambers beats someone it probably means they aren't championship material.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
Guys much worse then Eddie Chambers have won heavyweight titles in recent years. Chambers has one of the better skillsets in the division but absolutely no size to match.
Anyways, there are only 4 people I would even be mildly interested in seeing face Wlad.
Povetkin
Solis
Haye
Vitali
Obviously he's not fighting Vitali. Povetkin is to slow and small probably. Solis would be interesting but he's a pretty big unknown at this point. And Haye I think we know who he is. He miiight have some speed to trouble Wlad but I doubt it.
Listen, Chicken Little might win a UD vs Sam Peter MAYBE if he turned the gas way up on him he could make Sam quit but I HIGHLY doubt he'd stop him....why? Because this is the first time it's been done and it took 9 1/2 rounds of big bombs to do it....but I guess if you're allowed (as Chicken Little is [and if you don't believe me just watch the Ruiz fight]) to land repeatedly to the back of the head with no warning, then maybe he'd stop him.....eventually.
Saying Sam Peter wouldn't beat Audley is just childish...Audley couldn't even beat a top 10 British Heavyweight much less a top 10 WORLD class heavyweight. Sam Peter is exactly that, he is world class, yes he flailed around quite a bit and it looked like he lacked any talent....but being a slugger that's part of the game, how many times did you see Joe Frazier wildly swing and miss? How about George Foreman? Earnie Shavers? Ron Lyle? Gerry Cooney? Tommy Morrison? Razor Ruddock? Guys who hit hard and are just being out classed can look silly....it doesn't mean they aren't dangerous.
Eventually Chicken Little will be forced to step up the class of his opponents: Barrett, Valuev, Ruiz, Harrison.....that just doesn't cut it. Why no Arreola? Why no Povetkin? Why no Dimitrenko? Dimitrenko would be an EASY fight for Chicken Little! It would prepare him for the height, reach, and size of a Klitschko with 0 danger!!! Dimitrenko is easy to hit, he has fast hands but doesn't hit hard, he's only been beaten once (by Eddie Chambers a top fighter) and I do honestly think he would be the first fighter to stop Dimitrenko. Harrison is preparing him for the size of a Klitschko, but Audley's not fresh, he may punch a bit harder than Dimitrenko and hell Audley has been violently KO'd before....and shit Audley couldn't even beat Dominick Guinn! I would be impressed if Chicken Little KO'd Guinn, he's never been stopped either...doesn't mean he's good or anything, but it would allow me to accurately judge his power.
Oh really? Because Eddie was just a simple 3-4 punch combination away from adding Alexander Povetkin to that list.Quote:
Originally Posted by CFH
Eddie is small, he should be a cruiserweight...but he's deceptively quick, he has very good 1 punch power for his size, and he has excellent defense. Eddie is a good fighter, he'd be tough for anyone to beat.
Except Wlad, he could barely even reach the dude's head.
MIGHT KO Peter, IF blah, blah, blah.......
I genuinely think any heavyweight with some stamina would have beat Peter and said heavyweight with any power would get that KO late on.
Klitchko gets lots of plaudits for his jab etc, but the fact he is very well conditioned and fit has been one of his biggest assets in recent years where fighters skills have diminished and the crop of one hit wonders have come through. Their styles generally mean poor fitness and the fact they are struggling for breath a few rounds in makes them easier foe.
Haye would have without doubt KO'd Peter, no maybes about it. Certainly no maybes about if Haye would have beaten him. Peter was poor and unfit, yes he'll always be dangerous because he can punch, but that could be said about 100 heavies, dare I say it, including Audley Harrison.
I'm not faulting Wlad at all, but at least try and be objective when you post or else it's too tainted with fanboyism to be taken seriously. Wlad had another fight and good on him, he did well. He's active and winning without troubles. I'm all fir him keeping that up and knocking out anyone who thinks they are a contender.
When was the last time Wlad fought someone with speed? (genuine question as I don't actually know)
I think Hayes elusivenes still causes him problems. Haye us fast for a heavyweight and very fit.
The bolded parts are just downright wrong...Sam Peter was in great shape coming in to the fight, he was just right in terms of weight and he obviously had stamina or else he wouldn't have lasted 10 (well...9 and 1/2 ). Sam Peter is a good fighter, I hope he's ok from the fight vs Wlad, he might not ever be the same fighter as he once was but IMO he's still pretty damn good and he's obviously extremely hard to stop.Quote:
Originally Posted by 0james0
I think there are a lot of people that are very quick to judge the WBA title holder's power based on a couple of fights and honestly I think it's very easy (using those fights) to confuse "average" power for "great" power...I am not certain just what kind of power the guy has, because #1 It truly is hard to judge off of 4 heavyweight fights #2 The heavyweights he has fought and KO'd had already been stopped before so he's not showing us anything new (which makes me question his power).
Wlad stops guys that haven't been stopped before, he's done a bunch of it recently: Thompson, Chagaev, Chambers, Brewster, Brock, etc. That and his 58 fight resume with 49 KO's tell you "This guy must hit pretty freaking hard". It's kind of hard to expect me to see 4 fights at heavyweight 3 KO's and have the 3 KO's be guys who have previously been stopped (sometimes by not that great of punchers) and say "This guy is one hell of a power puncher"...even Evander Holyfield had to earn his stripes at heavyweight when it came time to question his punching power.
Eddie Chambers and Chris Byrd had very good hand speed, they didn't have great power, but they had very good hand speed. I might also add that both were very elusive....and that both had very good chins but got stopped anyway.
He wasn't in great shape. He simply wasn't as fat as he used to be. That's it. His stamina was appalling.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongThe bolded parts are just downright wrong...Sam Peter was in great shape coming in to the fight, he was just right in terms of weight and he obviously had stamina or else he wouldn't have lasted 10 (well...9 and 1/2 ). Sam Peter is a good fighter, I hope he's ok from the fight vs Wlad, he might not ever be the same fighter as he once was but IMO he's still pretty damn good and he's obviously extremely hard to stop.Quote:
Originally Posted by 0james0
I think there are a lot of people that are very quick to judge the WBA title holder's power based on a couple of fights and honestly I think it's very easy (using those fights) to confuse "average" power for "great" power...I am not certain just what kind of power the guy has, because #1 It truly is hard to judge off of 4 heavyweight fights #2 The heavyweights he has fought and KO'd had already been stopped before so he's not showing us anything new (which makes me question his power).
Wlad stops guys that haven't been stopped before, he's done a bunch of it recently: Thompson, Chagaev, Chambers, Brewster, Brock, etc. That and his 58 fight resume with 49 KO's tell you "This guy must hit pretty freaking hard". It's kind of hard to expect me to see 4 fights at heavyweight 3 KO's and have the 3 KO's be guys who have previously been stopped (sometimes by not that great of punchers) and say "This guy is one hell of a power puncher"...even Evander Holyfield had to earn his stripes at heavyweight when it came time to question his punching power.
Eddie Chambers and Chris Byrd had very good hand speed, they didn't have great power, but they had very good hand speed. I might also add that both were very elusive....and that both had very good chins but got stopped anyway.