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Re: Now some time has passed.. Your final vote on Pac's refusal...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JazMerkin
N.B. Jones is not a good analogy when trying to proclaim Pacquiao's innocence. Most in or around the sport believe that he had some interesting 'supplements' when moving up the Light-Heavy.
Light Heavy or Heavy?
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Re: Now some time has passed.. Your final vote on Pac's refusal...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
:::PSL:::
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hornfinger
Travis Tygart believe that EPO's and HGH can be flushed out from the system within five days and that a cheater if not blood tested within a week can escape being caught even if he took the blood test immediately after the fight. So why USADA stopped taking blood from Shane and Floyd 18 days before they fight?
They didn't. there was no offical 18 day cut off.
But I do agree with what you have said. EPO and HGH can be flushed out very easily and thats why urine testing is aboslutely useless. It detects fuck all of modern enhancers.
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Re: Now some time has passed.. Your final vote on Pac's refusal...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hornfinger
Quote:
Originally Posted by
:::PSL:::
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hornfinger
Travis Tygart believe that EPO's and HGH can be flushed out from the system within five days and that a cheater if not blood tested within a week can escape being caught even if he took the blood test immediately after the fight. So why USADA stopped taking blood from Shane and Floyd 18 days before they fight?
They didn't. there was no offical 18 day cut off.
But I do agree with what you have said. EPO and HGH can be flushed out very easily and thats why urine testing is aboslutely useless. It detects fuck all of modern enhancers.
Welcome back. ;D
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Re: Now some time has passed.. Your final vote on Pac's refusal...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JazMerkin
Bodybuilding & boxing have very different needs so putting on 'bulk' for either is a very different proposition. For example, most bodybuilders tend to burn all the fat that they can for events, whereas as a boxer you want to have some fat to fall back on because otherwise you become too weak. What Manny Pacquiao has done physically is different, but that alone is not enough to judge him. The only thing in that regard that sticks out a bit for me is that his power appeared to plateau a bit at 130, yet since moving up it's that much more explosive. Even with the lack of drain, it's still odd that he looks a more explosive puncher (not power, guys like Hearns & Robinson have carried the power up, but they've looked to lose that explosiveness with it). But, to me, that is no indicator of guilt.
What does make me doubt him is the tests. It's the fact he wanted notifications of when the tests would be. PSL's point about the PBF-Mosley testing stopping 18 days before is neither here nor there. The point was the fighters knew they could be tested & were probably expecting it. The thing that really makes me doubt it is what I hear from people in the sport themselves. What guys even very close to Pac say privately is very different from what they say publically.
But, they'll make the fight next year & this will all be forgotten.
N.B. Jones is not a good analogy when trying to proclaim Pacquiao's innocence. Most in or around the sport believe that he had some interesting 'supplements' when moving up the Light-Heavy.
you are right dude, bodybuilding and boxing are different with different goals
but bodybuilders and boxers are both human and have the same physiology or anatomy or what ever you want to call it
the argument is that pac has put on a lot of lean muscle (im not saying he has or he hasnt, thats just what we are discussing) so if a bodybuilder (who is dedicated to putting on muscle) cant achieve that without roids why should boxer be able to?
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Re: Now some time has passed.. Your final vote on Pac's refusal...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Boogie Man
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JazMerkin
N.B. Jones is not a good analogy when trying to proclaim Pacquiao's innocence. Most in or around the sport believe that he had some interesting 'supplements' when moving up the Light-Heavy.
Light Heavy or Heavy?
Both ;)
I've heard that he started taking things after the McCallum & first Griffin fights. Again, this might just be the kind of gossip you hear about fighters, but it certainly wouldn't surprise me. I do think the time he got caught, it probably was to do with the ripped fuel. No way would Jones be that dumb to take something that's going to get him caught. Then again he did carry on boxing after getting battered by Tarver/Johnson/Calzaghe & Green.
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Re: Now some time has passed.. Your final vote on Pac's refusal...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
erics44
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JazMerkin
Bodybuilding & boxing have very different needs so putting on 'bulk' for either is a very different proposition. For example, most bodybuilders tend to burn all the fat that they can for events, whereas as a boxer you want to have some fat to fall back on because otherwise you become too weak. What Manny Pacquiao has done physically is different, but that alone is not enough to judge him. The only thing in that regard that sticks out a bit for me is that his power appeared to plateau a bit at 130, yet since moving up it's that much more explosive. Even with the lack of drain, it's still odd that he looks a more explosive puncher (not power, guys like Hearns & Robinson have carried the power up, but they've looked to lose that explosiveness with it). But, to me, that is no indicator of guilt.
What does make me doubt him is the tests. It's the fact he wanted notifications of when the tests would be. PSL's point about the PBF-Mosley testing stopping 18 days before is neither here nor there. The point was the fighters knew they could be tested & were probably expecting it. The thing that really makes me doubt it is what I hear from people in the sport themselves. What guys even very close to Pac say privately is very different from what they say publically.
But, they'll make the fight next year & this will all be forgotten.
N.B. Jones is not a good analogy when trying to proclaim Pacquiao's innocence. Most in or around the sport believe that he had some interesting 'supplements' when moving up the Light-Heavy.
you are right dude, bodybuilding and boxing are different with different goals
but bodybuilders and boxers are both human and have the same physiology or anatomy or what ever you want to call it
the argument is that pac has put on a lot of lean muscle (im not saying he has or he hasnt, thats just what we are discussing) so if a bodybuilder (who is dedicated to putting on muscle) cant achieve that without roids why should boxer be able to?
Because if Pac is on anything it's far more likely to be EPO than HGH, as his goals are different. The obsession with his body & muscle mass is a really a bit of a red herring in this debate as far as I'm concerned.
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Re: Now some time has passed.. Your final vote on Pac's refusal...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JazMerkin
Quote:
Originally Posted by
erics44
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JazMerkin
Bodybuilding & boxing have very different needs so putting on 'bulk' for either is a very different proposition. For example, most bodybuilders tend to burn all the fat that they can for events, whereas as a boxer you want to have some fat to fall back on because otherwise you become too weak. What Manny Pacquiao has done physically is different, but that alone is not enough to judge him. The only thing in that regard that sticks out a bit for me is that his power appeared to plateau a bit at 130, yet since moving up it's that much more explosive. Even with the lack of drain, it's still odd that he looks a more explosive puncher (not power, guys like Hearns & Robinson have carried the power up, but they've looked to lose that explosiveness with it). But, to me, that is no indicator of guilt.
What does make me doubt him is the tests. It's the fact he wanted notifications of when the tests would be. PSL's point about the PBF-Mosley testing stopping 18 days before is neither here nor there. The point was the fighters knew they could be tested & were probably expecting it. The thing that really makes me doubt it is what I hear from people in the sport themselves. What guys even very close to Pac say privately is very different from what they say publically.
But, they'll make the fight next year & this will all be forgotten.
N.B. Jones is not a good analogy when trying to proclaim Pacquiao's innocence. Most in or around the sport believe that he had some interesting 'supplements' when moving up the Light-Heavy.
you are right dude, bodybuilding and boxing are different with different goals
but bodybuilders and boxers are both human and have the same physiology or anatomy or what ever you want to call it
the argument is that pac has put on a lot of lean muscle (im not saying he has or he hasnt, thats just what we are discussing) so if a bodybuilder (who is dedicated to putting on muscle) cant achieve that without roids why should boxer be able to?
Because if Pac is on anything it's far more likely to be EPO than HGH, as his goals are different. The obsession with his body & muscle mass is a really a bit of a red herring in this debate as far as I'm concerned.
maybe maybe not, and i dunno how much muscle he has actually put on
maybe if we had similar pics of him when he fought marquez the last time maybe to when he fought cotto we could maybe see a difference
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Re: Now some time has passed.. Your final vote on Pac's refusal...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ono
Of course you can. You just need to adapt the nutrition to surpass the energy requirements. Because Pacquio's enery requirements are so high, his nutritional needs will also be high - around 8,000 calories per day in his case, which is similar to Michael Phelps by the way - another extremely lean top level athlete.
The fact that he was fighting at Bantamweight doesn't actually have anything to do with that being his natural weight. It's very possible that as a younger fighter he was under-nutritioned or malnourished in an athletic sense. You can bet your bottom dollar he didn't have a 8,000 calorie a day plan when he was in his early 20's.
its highly unlikely he is eating 8000 calories a day dude, where are you getting your information from
i started a thread on a bodybuilding forum
eating 8000 calories a day and adding lean muscle - UK-Muscle Body Building Community - Bodybuilding Forum
yes these are just random people, who could know nothing but they are also people who dedicate themselves to bodybuilding and nutrician and are constantly looking for ways to gain muscle (lean or not)
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Re: Now some time has passed.. Your final vote on Pac's refusal...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
erics44
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ono
8000 calories a day for an athlete who is training for 3-5 hours per day isn't far fetched. You're gaining a lot of fat because you don't have anywhere the same activity level as Pacquiao has. You clearly don't have the activity level to support your current energy intake.
The bit where you said people over 23 don't build lean muscle isn't true. It's not true in any way shape or form. I don't understand the bit about bodybuilders taking steroids, but bulking like 'natty's. Do you mean, even steroid using bodybuilders have to increase calories intake just like a regular natural bodybuilder? If so, of course they do. That's because there is a science to putting on lean muscle. You seem to hinting at the notion that bodybuilders rely on steroids because they have exhausted all other avenues. In my experience, this is far from true.
It seems like you are arguing over a redundant point which has been peddled by some idiot who's trying to justify his own steroid cycle, over on a bodybuilding site.
i didnt say over 23s dont put on lean muscle, i said it becomes very difficult, very quickly as you get over that age, obviously it depends on the person, some sooner others later
say at 26, 27, 28 or 29 to put on anymore than 5lbs of lean muscle a year would be very difficult and there is no way you would put lean muscle on eating 8000 calories a day when you are 10 stone
i never said bodybuilders rely on steriods (please point out where i did if i did) i said both steriod users and nattys use the same methods, eat over 2500 calories a day and put on fat as well as muscle
dude eating 8000 calories is unrealistic for anyone, especially someone of 10 stone, do you know how much food that is? the only way i can think of doing it would be on a liquid diet, and it would be pointless anyway, eating all that and training so much, they would kind of offset each other
www.uk-muscle.co.uk is full of competing bodybuilders, some who bodybuild for a living and most who make it their sole purpose in life, start a thread called - could you put on lean muscle eating 8000 calories a day at 10 stone - and see what the response is, argue it is manny pac you are talking about, and see if you get any further
You said over 23's don't generally put on lean muscle.
"The second part of Ariza’s training module involves extremely high caloric intake. He has Pacquiao consuming over 7000 calories of food per day, alternating between high protein solid foods and then liquid protein shakes. Pacquiao is forced to eat at least every two hours, whether he’s hungry or not. Contrary to the myth that Pacquiao enjoys fighting at higher weights because he can eat all he wants, Ariza says the constant consumption of food actually gets to the fighter, even if he’s eating his favorite Filipino dishes."
This is taken from an interview with Pacquiao's nutritionist and the full article is on this site
http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfor...gime-diet.html
He doesn't give an exact figure but he mentions that it is above 7,000 cals, so for arguments sake let's settle on 7,000.
He has to eat that much because if he went much lower, he wouldn't eat enough to meet his energy requirements. His energy requirements are so high because he undertakes a very vigorous training camp.
You keep mentioning that he can't possibly put on lean muscle when his calories are so high and when he's naturally so small. I'll try and explain it differently to you mate...
If he's consuming 7,000 calories per day day, but burning off 6,500 that's an aggregate of 500 calories. Now that is the same as you consuming 2,500 and burning off 2,000. The only difference is, Manny's activity level is much much higher than yours, so he needs to up his calorie intake to compensate for it. If he didn't, he wouldn't be able to maintain his existing weight, let alone put on weight.
Are you with me so far?
Quick recap....he has to consume more calories than he is burning off. So that's why it's above 7,000. From that information you can gather he is burning around 6,000 - 6,500 calories per day through training camp.
Edit: As for his weight gain, i posted pictures of 'tale of the tapes' from his fight with Morales right up until his fight with Clottey. His weight come fight night only showed a 5lb differential. Inn other words, even at Super-Featherweight against Morales in 06, Manny weighed 144lbs on the night of the fight. Against Clottey in 2010 he weighed 149lbs. People tend to ignore this when pointing out he has moved up several divisions, but it's unfair to do so. His fight night weight is his more natural weight. His weigh-in weight will vary depending on the level of dehydration and muscle glycogen depletion. So in real terms, he's actually only 5lb heavier than he was 4 years ago.
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Re: Now some time has passed.. Your final vote on Pac's refusal...
1 question that boggles my mind. Where is Taeth? He probably knows someone in his gym that has a PHD in bio-chemistry or sports science that attended an Ivy League University (Harvard, Yale, Columbia, Princeton, etc.) that knows more than us regular Joes do. I am waiting for his 2nd hand info to clear this up.:p
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Re: Now some time has passed.. Your final vote on Pac's refusal...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
erics44
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ono
Of course you can. You just need to adapt the nutrition to surpass the energy requirements. Because Pacquio's enery requirements are so high, his nutritional needs will also be high - around 8,000 calories per day in his case, which is similar to Michael Phelps by the way - another extremely lean top level athlete.
The fact that he was fighting at Bantamweight doesn't actually have anything to do with that being his natural weight. It's very possible that as a younger fighter he was under-nutritioned or malnourished in an athletic sense. You can bet your bottom dollar he didn't have a 8,000 calorie a day plan when he was in his early 20's.
yes these are just brotastic weight lifting effin idiots...
fyp.
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Re: Now some time has passed.. Your final vote on Pac's refusal...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ono
Quote:
Originally Posted by
erics44
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ono
8000 calories a day for an athlete who is training for 3-5 hours per day isn't far fetched. You're gaining a lot of fat because you don't have anywhere the same activity level as Pacquiao has. You clearly don't have the activity level to support your current energy intake.
The bit where you said people over 23 don't build lean muscle isn't true. It's not true in any way shape or form. I don't understand the bit about bodybuilders taking steroids, but bulking like 'natty's. Do you mean, even steroid using bodybuilders have to increase calories intake just like a regular natural bodybuilder? If so, of course they do. That's because there is a science to putting on lean muscle. You seem to hinting at the notion that bodybuilders rely on steroids because they have exhausted all other avenues. In my experience, this is far from true.
It seems like you are arguing over a redundant point which has been peddled by some idiot who's trying to justify his own steroid cycle, over on a bodybuilding site.
i didnt say over 23s dont put on lean muscle, i said it becomes very difficult, very quickly as you get over that age, obviously it depends on the person, some sooner others later
say at 26, 27, 28 or 29 to put on anymore than 5lbs of lean muscle a year would be very difficult and there is no way you would put lean muscle on eating 8000 calories a day when you are 10 stone
i never said bodybuilders rely on steriods (please point out where i did if i did) i said both steriod users and nattys use the same methods, eat over 2500 calories a day and put on fat as well as muscle
dude eating 8000 calories is unrealistic for anyone, especially someone of 10 stone, do you know how much food that is? the only way i can think of doing it would be on a liquid diet, and it would be pointless anyway, eating all that and training so much, they would kind of offset each other
www.uk-muscle.co.uk is full of competing bodybuilders, some who bodybuild for a living and most who make it their sole purpose in life, start a thread called - could you put on lean muscle eating 8000 calories a day at 10 stone - and see what the response is, argue it is manny pac you are talking about, and see if you get any further
You said over 23's don't generally put on lean muscle.
"The second part of Ariza’s training module involves extremely high caloric intake. He has Pacquiao consuming over 7000 calories of food per day, alternating between high protein solid foods and then liquid protein shakes. Pacquiao is forced to eat at least every two hours, whether he’s hungry or not. Contrary to the myth that Pacquiao enjoys fighting at higher weights because he can eat all he wants, Ariza says the constant consumption of food actually gets to the fighter, even if he’s eating his favorite Filipino dishes."
This is taken from an interview with Pacquiao's nutritionist and the full article is on this site
http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfor...gime-diet.html
He doesn't give an exact figure but he mentions that it is above 7,000 cals, so for arguments sake let's settle on 7,000.
He has to eat that much because if he went much lower, he wouldn't eat enough to meet his energy requirements. His energy requirements are so high because he undertakes a very vigorous training camp.
You keep mentioning that he can't possibly put on lean muscle when his calories are so high and when he's naturally so small. I'll try and explain it differently to you mate...
If he's consuming 7,000 calories per day day, but burning off 6,500 that's an aggregate of 500 calories. Now that is the same as you consuming 2,500 and burning off 2,000. The only difference is, Manny's activity level is much much higher than yours, so he needs to up his calorie intake to compensate for it. If he didn't, he wouldn't be able to maintain his existing weight, let alone put on weight.
Are you with me so far?
Quick recap....he has to consume more calories than he is burning off. So that's why it's above 7,000. From that information you can gather he is burning around 6,000 - 6,500 calories per day through training camp.
Edit: As for his weight gain, i posted pictures of 'tale of the tapes' from his fight with Morales right up until his fight with Clottey. His weight come fight night only showed a 5lb differential. Inn other words, even at Super-Featherweight against Morales in 06, Manny weighed 144lbs on the night of the fight. Against Clottey in 2010 he weighed 149lbs. People tend to ignore this when pointing out he has moved up several divisions, but it's unfair to do so. His fight night weight is his more natural weight. His weigh-in weight will vary depending on the level of dehydration and muscle glycogen depletion. So in real terms, he's actually only 5lb heavier than he was 4 years ago.
Mate let him be, Eric is right everytime in his mind when in truth he is wrong more or less everytime.
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How old is Pac now? Mid 30's?
I think you are all forgetting about the scientific term- middle age spread.
We all get heavier as we get older. Even if he retired from boxing a long time ago, he would be heavier now than he was then.
I'm suspicious, but he's still innocent until proven guilty.
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Re: Now some time has passed.. Your final vote on Pac's refusal...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
0james0
How old is Pac now? Mid 30's?
I think you are all forgetting about the scientific term- middle age spread.
We all get heavier as we get older. Even if he retired from boxing a long time ago, he would be heavier now than he was then.
I'm suspicious, but he's still innocent until proven guilty.
But what me and Skel have pointed out is the fact that Pacquiao is naturally only around 4 or 5lbs heavier than he was in 2007 when he fought Barrera. He might have moved up 2 or 3 weight classes, but his weight hasn't really changed. He might have weighed in heavier, but his actual fight night weight has only increased from 144 (the barrera fight) to 149 (the clottey fight).
Weighing in the day before a fight doesn't give a good indication of somebody's natural weight. Getting weighed on fight night does. Eric the fitness Guru isn't having it, because him posting on muscle-talk obviously over-rides actual logic and nutritional fact. ;D
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Re: Now some time has passed.. Your final vote on Pac's refusal...
"Eric the fitness guru" Lol!
;D
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Re: Now some time has passed.. Your final vote on Pac's refusal...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
:::PSL:::
"Eric the fitness guru" Lol!
;D
Move over Alex Ariza. ;D
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Re: Now some time has passed.. Your final vote on Pac's refusal...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ono
Quote:
Originally Posted by
erics44
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ono
8000 calories a day for an athlete who is training for 3-5 hours per day isn't far fetched. You're gaining a lot of fat because you don't have anywhere the same activity level as Pacquiao has. You clearly don't have the activity level to support your current energy intake.
The bit where you said people over 23 don't build lean muscle isn't true. It's not true in any way shape or form. I don't understand the bit about bodybuilders taking steroids, but bulking like 'natty's. Do you mean, even steroid using bodybuilders have to increase calories intake just like a regular natural bodybuilder? If so, of course they do. That's because there is a science to putting on lean muscle. You seem to hinting at the notion that bodybuilders rely on steroids because they have exhausted all other avenues. In my experience, this is far from true.
It seems like you are arguing over a redundant point which has been peddled by some idiot who's trying to justify his own steroid cycle, over on a bodybuilding site.
i didnt say over 23s dont put on lean muscle, i said it becomes very difficult, very quickly as you get over that age, obviously it depends on the person, some sooner others later
say at 26, 27, 28 or 29 to put on anymore than 5lbs of lean muscle a year would be very difficult and there is no way you would put lean muscle on eating 8000 calories a day when you are 10 stone
i never said bodybuilders rely on steriods (please point out where i did if i did) i said both steriod users and nattys use the same methods, eat over 2500 calories a day and put on fat as well as muscle
dude eating 8000 calories is unrealistic for anyone, especially someone of 10 stone, do you know how much food that is? the only way i can think of doing it would be on a liquid diet, and it would be pointless anyway, eating all that and training so much, they would kind of offset each other
www.uk-muscle.co.uk is full of competing bodybuilders, some who bodybuild for a living and most who make it their sole purpose in life, start a thread called - could you put on lean muscle eating 8000 calories a day at 10 stone - and see what the response is, argue it is manny pac you are talking about, and see if you get any further
You said over 23's don't generally put on lean muscle.
"The second part of Ariza’s training module involves extremely high caloric intake. He has Pacquiao consuming over 7000 calories of food per day, alternating between high protein solid foods and then liquid protein shakes. Pacquiao is forced to eat at least every two hours, whether he’s hungry or not. Contrary to the myth that Pacquiao enjoys fighting at higher weights because he can eat all he wants, Ariza says the constant consumption of food actually gets to the fighter, even if he’s eating his favorite Filipino dishes."
This is taken from an interview with Pacquiao's nutritionist and the full article is on this site
http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfor...gime-diet.html
He doesn't give an exact figure but he mentions that it is above 7,000 cals, so for arguments sake let's settle on 7,000.
He has to eat that much because if he went much lower, he wouldn't eat enough to meet his energy requirements. His energy requirements are so high because he undertakes a very vigorous training camp.
You keep mentioning that he can't possibly put on lean muscle when his calories are so high and when he's naturally so small. I'll try and explain it differently to you mate...
If he's consuming 7,000 calories per day day, but burning off 6,500 that's an aggregate of 500 calories. Now that is the same as you consuming 2,500 and burning off 2,000. The only difference is, Manny's activity level is much much higher than yours, so he needs to up his calorie intake to compensate for it. If he didn't, he wouldn't be able to maintain his existing weight, let alone put on weight.
Are you with me so far?
Quick recap....he has to consume more calories than he is burning off. So that's why it's above 7,000. From that information you can gather he is burning around 6,000 - 6,500 calories per day through training camp.
Edit: As for his weight gain, i posted pictures of 'tale of the tapes' from his fight with Morales right up until his fight with Clottey. His weight come fight night only showed a 5lb differential. Inn other words, even at Super-Featherweight against Morales in 06, Manny weighed 144lbs on the night of the fight. Against Clottey in 2010 he weighed 149lbs. People tend to ignore this when pointing out he has moved up several divisions, but it's unfair to do so. His fight night weight is his more natural weight. His weigh-in weight will vary depending on the level of dehydration and muscle glycogen depletion. So in real terms, he's actually only 5lb heavier than he was 4 years ago.
you need to keep callories to put on muscle dude
im telling you, what you are explaining a person wouldnt put on any muscle at all
they would be extremely fit, but they wouldnt gain muscle
if you are eating 7000 callories and burning 6500 with this training routine you would struggle to maintain your weight
if this was posible then every bodybuilder in the world would be doing it
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Re: Now some time has passed.. Your final vote on Pac's refusal...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
:::PSL:::
"Eric the fitness guru" Lol!
;D
:) i know my shit dude
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Re: Now some time has passed.. Your final vote on Pac's refusal...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
skel1983
Mate let him be, Eric is right everytime in his mind when in truth he is wrong more or less everytime.
:) i could say the same about you bro
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Re: Now some time has passed.. Your final vote on Pac's refusal...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ono
Quote:
Originally Posted by
erics44
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ono
Basically, it's not that big of a deal. It could very easily have been achieved by any athlete who increases his nutritonal intake. The other thing people talk about is the fact that he's carried his power up. But even when you look at that, he actually is pretty much the same. Cotto and Hatton were both hurt/knocked out because they were moving forwards at the pointof impact. Diaz was ko'd after taking an absolute pummelling. Oscar and Clottey weren't really hurt because they were constantly on the back foot, both in survival mode. Pacquiao's power comes from his speed and accuracy. Mayweather has never been a knockout puncher but he ko'd Hatton because Hatton walked onto the shot. If Margarito walks onto a few, he might find himself on his arse. That's just how getting punched in the face works.
i promise you pal, its not easily achieved
like i said in the pac v marg thread, to gain anything more than a couple to 5 maybe pounds of lean muscle a year is a fantastic achievement, anymore is almost unheard of
bodybuilders generally dont build lean muscle after they are 23 years old ish
they bulk and cut, so they gain more than a couple of pounds of muscle in a year, andything upto 10 or 15 pounds but they put on masses of fat as well during a bulk, then they diet and cut the fat
you check out pics of famous bodybuilders off season
Mate, once again you're talking absolute bollocks. ;D
The comment i have highlighted is so stupid, it deserves a special mention. Testosterone levels reach a peak around the mid 20's. After that, they start to slowly decline. That is why it is harder for a person to add muscle mass as they get older. However, to say people don't build lean muscle once they're about 23 is absolute tosh.
You don't need to promise me anything. I suggest you take the time to read through a Sport's Nutrition textbook, or read the carbohydrate section of the Sport's Nutrition Bible, which is authored by me, in the training section of this very site. ;)
Getting back to Pacquiao. His natural weight, or his weigh-in weight has increased by around 15lbs, in 4 years. Once again, that isn't unrealistic for an athlete who is consuming 8,000 cals per day. It's also worth mentioning that the higher he goes up in weight, the less he has to deplete himself before the weigh-in. So a Pacquiao weighing at 129 isn't really a true reflection of his actual weight because he will have more han likely have been dehydrated, wheras for a fight at Welterweight, he can actually afford to be hydrated and he can afford for his muscle glycogen stores to be close to being fully loaded. This in itself will account for around 6 or 7lbs.
Like i said, he's done nothing that's even remotely out of the ordinary here.
But please, carry on with your cliched nonsense :rolleyes:
I will second and stand 100% by that.... And we're not talking about the average Westener gym junkie hang around in gyms and online forums..
This is a Philippine athlete. The Philippine physique and genetics is already much better at keeping off the fat.. So he won't be as likely to put on the pounds of fat that some people are expecting of him in the off season or when he's trying to gain weight in any forum (bulk then cut)....
And again, this is not the average Western Gym/forum junkie,,,, this is one of the fittest peak athletes on the planet. A person who would work 10 times harder than anyone you would find on a muscle forum... He's also got expert nutritionists who work with nutrition of sports people all day every day.. That's what they get paid for... They are not people who've read articles or got some experience of themselves and then tell everyone how it is.....
As Ono said, for Pac to get down to the lower weights, that would have taken a LOT of work... Moving up less so.... He would be working just as hard in the gym, except they would have upped his calories and proteins etc to bring him up to the higher weights and maintain his muscle and ripped look...
go to weightgaintips.com to see what is possible in regards to lean muscle with the appropriate workout and diet.... And that of course doesn't represent everyone, but if someone is in the gym for a year and seriously only puts on a good 5 pounds of muscle mass in a year, then they are doing something seriously fucking wrong... Overtraining, shit diet, shit workout (high reps/low weight)... So to say it's only realistic to put on 5 pounds of muscle mass a year is just silly...
And we are talking about Manny Pacquaio, who has been known to work as hard as any boxer in history...
Nothing of his physique or gains gives me any suspicion what so ever....
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Re: Now some time has passed.. Your final vote on Pac's refusal...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dizaster
go to
weightgaintips.com to see what is possible in regards to lean muscle with the appropriate workout and diet.... And that of course doesn't represent everyone, but if someone is in the gym for a year and seriously only puts on a good 5 pounds of muscle mass in a year, then they are doing something seriously fucking wrong... Overtraining, shit diet, shit workout (high reps/low weight)... So to say it's only realistic to put on 5 pounds of muscle mass a year is just silly...
putting on 5lbs of "lean" muscle in a year for someone over (for arguments sake lets say) 26 would be a very good achievement
by doing a bulk (adding fat too) it is very posible
if you are over 26, I challenge you to try and put on 2lbs of "lean" muscle in a year, that is without adding any fat, i bet you struggle
but dudes, you lot have obviously studied this more than me so you clearly know what you are talking about
just an aditional point, did ariza's journal thingy posted above come out after manny had refused the drugs test?
let me just point out at this point, i have never said manny has or hasnt put on any muscle, as ive said a few times in this thread my original point was to onos suggestion that it is easy to put on lean muscle at that rate
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Re: Now some time has passed.. Your final vote on Pac's refusal...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
erics44
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ono
Quote:
Originally Posted by
erics44
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ono
8000 calories a day for an athlete who is training for 3-5 hours per day isn't far fetched. You're gaining a lot of fat because you don't have anywhere the same activity level as Pacquiao has. You clearly don't have the activity level to support your current energy intake.
The bit where you said people over 23 don't build lean muscle isn't true. It's not true in any way shape or form. I don't understand the bit about bodybuilders taking steroids, but bulking like 'natty's. Do you mean, even steroid using bodybuilders have to increase calories intake just like a regular natural bodybuilder? If so, of course they do. That's because there is a science to putting on lean muscle. You seem to hinting at the notion that bodybuilders rely on steroids because they have exhausted all other avenues. In my experience, this is far from true.
It seems like you are arguing over a redundant point which has been peddled by some idiot who's trying to justify his own steroid cycle, over on a bodybuilding site.
i didnt say over 23s dont put on lean muscle, i said it becomes very difficult, very quickly as you get over that age, obviously it depends on the person, some sooner others later
say at 26, 27, 28 or 29 to put on anymore than 5lbs of lean muscle a year would be very difficult and there is no way you would put lean muscle on eating 8000 calories a day when you are 10 stone
i never said bodybuilders rely on steriods (please point out where i did if i did) i said both steriod users and nattys use the same methods, eat over 2500 calories a day and put on fat as well as muscle
dude eating 8000 calories is unrealistic for anyone, especially someone of 10 stone, do you know how much food that is? the only way i can think of doing it would be on a liquid diet, and it would be pointless anyway, eating all that and training so much, they would kind of offset each other
www.uk-muscle.co.uk is full of competing bodybuilders, some who bodybuild for a living and most who make it their sole purpose in life, start a thread called - could you put on lean muscle eating 8000 calories a day at 10 stone - and see what the response is, argue it is manny pac you are talking about, and see if you get any further
You said over 23's don't generally put on lean muscle.
"The second part of Ariza’s training module involves extremely high caloric intake. He has Pacquiao consuming over 7000 calories of food per day, alternating between high protein solid foods and then liquid protein shakes. Pacquiao is forced to eat at least every two hours, whether he’s hungry or not. Contrary to the myth that Pacquiao enjoys fighting at higher weights because he can eat all he wants, Ariza says the constant consumption of food actually gets to the fighter, even if he’s eating his favorite Filipino dishes."
This is taken from an interview with Pacquiao's nutritionist and the full article is on this site
http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfor...gime-diet.html
He doesn't give an exact figure but he mentions that it is above 7,000 cals, so for arguments sake let's settle on 7,000.
He has to eat that much because if he went much lower, he wouldn't eat enough to meet his energy requirements. His energy requirements are so high because he undertakes a very vigorous training camp.
You keep mentioning that he can't possibly put on lean muscle when his calories are so high and when he's naturally so small. I'll try and explain it differently to you mate...
If he's consuming 7,000 calories per day day, but burning off 6,500 that's an aggregate of 500 calories. Now that is the same as you consuming 2,500 and burning off 2,000. The only difference is, Manny's activity level is much much higher than yours, so he needs to up his calorie intake to compensate for it. If he didn't, he wouldn't be able to maintain his existing weight, let alone put on weight.
Are you with me so far?
Quick recap....he has to consume more calories than he is burning off. So that's why it's above 7,000. From that information you can gather he is burning around 6,000 - 6,500 calories per day through training camp.
Edit: As for his weight gain, i posted pictures of 'tale of the tapes' from his fight with Morales right up until his fight with Clottey. His weight come fight night only showed a 5lb differential. Inn other words, even at Super-Featherweight against Morales in 06, Manny weighed 144lbs on the night of the fight. Against Clottey in 2010 he weighed 149lbs. People tend to ignore this when pointing out he has moved up several divisions, but it's unfair to do so. His fight night weight is his more natural weight. His weigh-in weight will vary depending on the level of dehydration and muscle glycogen depletion. So in real terms, he's actually only 5lb heavier than he was 4 years ago.
you need to keep callories to put on muscle dude
im telling you, what you are explaining a person wouldnt put on any muscle at all
they would be extremely fit, but they wouldnt gain muscle
if you are eating 7000 callories and burning 6500 with this training routine you would struggle to maintain your weight
if this was posible then every bodybuilder in the world would be doing it
This once again makes no sense whatsoever. If he's burning 6,500 calories per day (i never once said his training routine was responsible for burning 6,500 cals - i estimated that that's the amount of calories he is burning off per day) and he's consuming over 7,000 he will carry over at least 500 calories. Combined with muscle building exercises this will provide a platform for him to add lean muscle mass. I really don't know how to make it any clearer. I know plenty of athletes who aim to put on muscle by consuming around 500 calories more than they burn off per day.
I don't understand your brain.
-
Re: Now some time has passed.. Your final vote on Pac's refusal...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ono
Quote:
Originally Posted by
erics44
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ono
Quote:
Originally Posted by
erics44
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ono
8000 calories a day for an athlete who is training for 3-5 hours per day isn't far fetched. You're gaining a lot of fat because you don't have anywhere the same activity level as Pacquiao has. You clearly don't have the activity level to support your current energy intake.
The bit where you said people over 23 don't build lean muscle isn't true. It's not true in any way shape or form. I don't understand the bit about bodybuilders taking steroids, but bulking like 'natty's. Do you mean, even steroid using bodybuilders have to increase calories intake just like a regular natural bodybuilder? If so, of course they do. That's because there is a science to putting on lean muscle. You seem to hinting at the notion that bodybuilders rely on steroids because they have exhausted all other avenues. In my experience, this is far from true.
It seems like you are arguing over a redundant point which has been peddled by some idiot who's trying to justify his own steroid cycle, over on a bodybuilding site.
i didnt say over 23s dont put on lean muscle, i said it becomes very difficult, very quickly as you get over that age, obviously it depends on the person, some sooner others later
say at 26, 27, 28 or 29 to put on anymore than 5lbs of lean muscle a year would be very difficult and there is no way you would put lean muscle on eating 8000 calories a day when you are 10 stone
i never said bodybuilders rely on steriods (please point out where i did if i did) i said both steriod users and nattys use the same methods, eat over 2500 calories a day and put on fat as well as muscle
dude eating 8000 calories is unrealistic for anyone, especially someone of 10 stone, do you know how much food that is? the only way i can think of doing it would be on a liquid diet, and it would be pointless anyway, eating all that and training so much, they would kind of offset each other
www.uk-muscle.co.uk is full of competing bodybuilders, some who bodybuild for a living and most who make it their sole purpose in life, start a thread called - could you put on lean muscle eating 8000 calories a day at 10 stone - and see what the response is, argue it is manny pac you are talking about, and see if you get any further
You said over 23's don't generally put on lean muscle.
"The second part of Ariza’s training module involves extremely high caloric intake. He has Pacquiao consuming over 7000 calories of food per day, alternating between high protein solid foods and then liquid protein shakes. Pacquiao is forced to eat at least every two hours, whether he’s hungry or not. Contrary to the myth that Pacquiao enjoys fighting at higher weights because he can eat all he wants, Ariza says the constant consumption of food actually gets to the fighter, even if he’s eating his favorite Filipino dishes."
This is taken from an interview with Pacquiao's nutritionist and the full article is on this site
http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfor...gime-diet.html
He doesn't give an exact figure but he mentions that it is above 7,000 cals, so for arguments sake let's settle on 7,000.
He has to eat that much because if he went much lower, he wouldn't eat enough to meet his energy requirements. His energy requirements are so high because he undertakes a very vigorous training camp.
You keep mentioning that he can't possibly put on lean muscle when his calories are so high and when he's naturally so small. I'll try and explain it differently to you mate...
If he's consuming 7,000 calories per day day, but burning off 6,500 that's an aggregate of 500 calories. Now that is the same as you consuming 2,500 and burning off 2,000. The only difference is, Manny's activity level is much much higher than yours, so he needs to up his calorie intake to compensate for it. If he didn't, he wouldn't be able to maintain his existing weight, let alone put on weight.
Are you with me so far?
Quick recap....he has to consume more calories than he is burning off. So that's why it's above 7,000. From that information you can gather he is burning around 6,000 - 6,500 calories per day through training camp.
Edit: As for his weight gain, i posted pictures of 'tale of the tapes' from his fight with Morales right up until his fight with Clottey. His weight come fight night only showed a 5lb differential. Inn other words, even at Super-Featherweight against Morales in 06, Manny weighed 144lbs on the night of the fight. Against Clottey in 2010 he weighed 149lbs. People tend to ignore this when pointing out he has moved up several divisions, but it's unfair to do so. His fight night weight is his more natural weight. His weigh-in weight will vary depending on the level of dehydration and muscle glycogen depletion. So in real terms, he's actually only 5lb heavier than he was 4 years ago.
you need to keep callories to put on muscle dude
im telling you, what you are explaining a person wouldnt put on any muscle at all
they would be extremely fit, but they wouldnt gain muscle
if you are eating 7000 callories and burning 6500 with this training routine you would struggle to maintain your weight
if this was posible then every bodybuilder in the world would be doing it
This once again makes no sense whatsoever. If he's burning 6,500 calories per day (i never once said his training routine was responsible for burning 6,500 cals - i estimated that that's the amount of calories he is burning off per day) and he's consuming over 7,000 he will carry over at least 500 calories. Combined with muscle building exercises this will provide a platform for him to add lean muscle mass. I really don't know how to make it any clearer. I know plenty of athletes who aim to put on muscle by consuming around 500 calories more than they burn off per day.
I don't understand your brain.
dude im telling you, ive been in the muscle building game for a long time and its very far fetched
high in the sky
what you are saying makes sense in a fantasy world
natural bodybuilders train for building muscle and nothing else
if a professional natural bodybuilder at pacs age put on 8lbs of muscle in 6 months, with any amount of fat it would be a good achievement
to put on 8lbs of muscle in 6 months lean is astonishing, not human and not believable, even on gear it would be a fantastic ahievement
if you are doing all the fitness training as well it would be counter productive which makes it even more unbelievable
im not saying that is what pac has done, are you?
if you really want to learn about building muscle, join uk-muscle and have these discussion with professional muscle builders, as i said before you will get an unanimous opinion
-
Re: Now some time has passed.. Your final vote on Pac's refusal...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
erics44
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ono
Quote:
Originally Posted by
erics44
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ono
Quote:
Originally Posted by
erics44
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ono
8000 calories a day for an athlete who is training for 3-5 hours per day isn't far fetched. You're gaining a lot of fat because you don't have anywhere the same activity level as Pacquiao has. You clearly don't have the activity level to support your current energy intake.
The bit where you said people over 23 don't build lean muscle isn't true. It's not true in any way shape or form. I don't understand the bit about bodybuilders taking steroids, but bulking like 'natty's. Do you mean, even steroid using bodybuilders have to increase calories intake just like a regular natural bodybuilder? If so, of course they do. That's because there is a science to putting on lean muscle. You seem to hinting at the notion that bodybuilders rely on steroids because they have exhausted all other avenues. In my experience, this is far from true.
It seems like you are arguing over a redundant point which has been peddled by some idiot who's trying to justify his own steroid cycle, over on a bodybuilding site.
i didnt say over 23s dont put on lean muscle, i said it becomes very difficult, very quickly as you get over that age, obviously it depends on the person, some sooner others later
say at 26, 27, 28 or 29 to put on anymore than 5lbs of lean muscle a year would be very difficult and there is no way you would put lean muscle on eating 8000 calories a day when you are 10 stone
i never said bodybuilders rely on steriods (please point out where i did if i did) i said both steriod users and nattys use the same methods, eat over 2500 calories a day and put on fat as well as muscle
dude eating 8000 calories is unrealistic for anyone, especially someone of 10 stone, do you know how much food that is? the only way i can think of doing it would be on a liquid diet, and it would be pointless anyway, eating all that and training so much, they would kind of offset each other
www.uk-muscle.co.uk is full of competing bodybuilders, some who bodybuild for a living and most who make it their sole purpose in life, start a thread called - could you put on lean muscle eating 8000 calories a day at 10 stone - and see what the response is, argue it is manny pac you are talking about, and see if you get any further
You said over 23's don't generally put on lean muscle.
"The second part of Ariza’s training module involves extremely high caloric intake. He has Pacquiao consuming over 7000 calories of food per day, alternating between high protein solid foods and then liquid protein shakes. Pacquiao is forced to eat at least every two hours, whether he’s hungry or not. Contrary to the myth that Pacquiao enjoys fighting at higher weights because he can eat all he wants, Ariza says the constant consumption of food actually gets to the fighter, even if he’s eating his favorite Filipino dishes."
This is taken from an interview with Pacquiao's nutritionist and the full article is on this site
http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfor...gime-diet.html
He doesn't give an exact figure but he mentions that it is above 7,000 cals, so for arguments sake let's settle on 7,000.
He has to eat that much because if he went much lower, he wouldn't eat enough to meet his energy requirements. His energy requirements are so high because he undertakes a very vigorous training camp.
You keep mentioning that he can't possibly put on lean muscle when his calories are so high and when he's naturally so small. I'll try and explain it differently to you mate...
If he's consuming 7,000 calories per day day, but burning off 6,500 that's an aggregate of 500 calories. Now that is the same as you consuming 2,500 and burning off 2,000. The only difference is, Manny's activity level is much much higher than yours, so he needs to up his calorie intake to compensate for it. If he didn't, he wouldn't be able to maintain his existing weight, let alone put on weight.
Are you with me so far?
Quick recap....he has to consume more calories than he is burning off. So that's why it's above 7,000. From that information you can gather he is burning around 6,000 - 6,500 calories per day through training camp.
Edit: As for his weight gain, i posted pictures of 'tale of the tapes' from his fight with Morales right up until his fight with Clottey. His weight come fight night only showed a 5lb differential. Inn other words, even at Super-Featherweight against Morales in 06, Manny weighed 144lbs on the night of the fight. Against Clottey in 2010 he weighed 149lbs. People tend to ignore this when pointing out he has moved up several divisions, but it's unfair to do so. His fight night weight is his more natural weight. His weigh-in weight will vary depending on the level of dehydration and muscle glycogen depletion. So in real terms, he's actually only 5lb heavier than he was 4 years ago.
you need to keep callories to put on muscle dude
im telling you, what you are explaining a person wouldnt put on any muscle at all
they would be extremely fit, but they wouldnt gain muscle
if you are eating 7000 callories and burning 6500 with this training routine you would struggle to maintain your weight
if this was posible then every bodybuilder in the world would be doing it
This once again makes no sense whatsoever. If he's burning 6,500 calories per day (i never once said his training routine was responsible for burning 6,500 cals - i estimated that that's the amount of calories he is burning off per day) and he's consuming over 7,000 he will carry over at least 500 calories. Combined with muscle building exercises this will provide a platform for him to add lean muscle mass. I really don't know how to make it any clearer. I know plenty of athletes who aim to put on muscle by consuming around 500 calories more than they burn off per day.
I don't understand your brain.
dude im telling you, ive been in the muscle building game for a long time and its very far fetched
high in the sky
what you are saying makes sense in a fantasy world
natural bodybuilders train for building muscle and nothing else
if a professional natural bodybuilder at pacs age put on 8lbs of muscle in 6 months, with any amount of fat it would be a good achievement
to put on 8lbs of muscle in 6 months lean is astonishing, not human and not believable, even on gear it would be a fantastic ahievement
if you are doing all the fitness training as well it would be counter productive which makes it even more unbelievable
im not saying that is what pac has done, are you?
if you really want to learn about building muscle, join uk-muscle and have these discussion with professional muscle builders, as i said before you will get an unanimous opinion
You're not reading properly. Nobody has said he has put on a lean 8lbs in 6 months. I am saying that this is the amount he has put on since 2006. That is 4 years. I'll say it again. Now read this part very, very carefully...
Manny Pacquaio weighed 144lbs when he fought Erik Morales in 2006. He weighed 149lbs when he fought Josua Clottey in 2010. He will probably weigh 150-152 when he fights Antonio Margarito. Is that clear mate?
I don't need to join muscletalk. I studied Sports Nutrition for 2 years.
Oh and the correct phrase is 'Pie in the sky', not 'High in the sky'
-
Re: Now some time has passed.. Your final vote on Pac's refusal...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ono
Quote:
Originally Posted by
erics44
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ono
Quote:
Originally Posted by
erics44
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ono
Quote:
Originally Posted by
erics44
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ono
8000 calories a day for an athlete who is training for 3-5 hours per day isn't far fetched. You're gaining a lot of fat because you don't have anywhere the same activity level as Pacquiao has. You clearly don't have the activity level to support your current energy intake.
The bit where you said people over 23 don't build lean muscle isn't true. It's not true in any way shape or form. I don't understand the bit about bodybuilders taking steroids, but bulking like 'natty's. Do you mean, even steroid using bodybuilders have to increase calories intake just like a regular natural bodybuilder? If so, of course they do. That's because there is a science to putting on lean muscle. You seem to hinting at the notion that bodybuilders rely on steroids because they have exhausted all other avenues. In my experience, this is far from true.
It seems like you are arguing over a redundant point which has been peddled by some idiot who's trying to justify his own steroid cycle, over on a bodybuilding site.
i didnt say over 23s dont put on lean muscle, i said it becomes very difficult, very quickly as you get over that age, obviously it depends on the person, some sooner others later
say at 26, 27, 28 or 29 to put on anymore than 5lbs of lean muscle a year would be very difficult and there is no way you would put lean muscle on eating 8000 calories a day when you are 10 stone
i never said bodybuilders rely on steriods (please point out where i did if i did) i said both steriod users and nattys use the same methods, eat over 2500 calories a day and put on fat as well as muscle
dude eating 8000 calories is unrealistic for anyone, especially someone of 10 stone, do you know how much food that is? the only way i can think of doing it would be on a liquid diet, and it would be pointless anyway, eating all that and training so much, they would kind of offset each other
www.uk-muscle.co.uk is full of competing bodybuilders, some who bodybuild for a living and most who make it their sole purpose in life, start a thread called - could you put on lean muscle eating 8000 calories a day at 10 stone - and see what the response is, argue it is manny pac you are talking about, and see if you get any further
You said over 23's don't generally put on lean muscle.
"The second part of Ariza’s training module involves extremely high caloric intake. He has Pacquiao consuming over 7000 calories of food per day, alternating between high protein solid foods and then liquid protein shakes. Pacquiao is forced to eat at least every two hours, whether he’s hungry or not. Contrary to the myth that Pacquiao enjoys fighting at higher weights because he can eat all he wants, Ariza says the constant consumption of food actually gets to the fighter, even if he’s eating his favorite Filipino dishes."
This is taken from an interview with Pacquiao's nutritionist and the full article is on this site
http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfor...gime-diet.html
He doesn't give an exact figure but he mentions that it is above 7,000 cals, so for arguments sake let's settle on 7,000.
He has to eat that much because if he went much lower, he wouldn't eat enough to meet his energy requirements. His energy requirements are so high because he undertakes a very vigorous training camp.
You keep mentioning that he can't possibly put on lean muscle when his calories are so high and when he's naturally so small. I'll try and explain it differently to you mate...
If he's consuming 7,000 calories per day day, but burning off 6,500 that's an aggregate of 500 calories. Now that is the same as you consuming 2,500 and burning off 2,000. The only difference is, Manny's activity level is much much higher than yours, so he needs to up his calorie intake to compensate for it. If he didn't, he wouldn't be able to maintain his existing weight, let alone put on weight.
Are you with me so far?
Quick recap....he has to consume more calories than he is burning off. So that's why it's above 7,000. From that information you can gather he is burning around 6,000 - 6,500 calories per day through training camp.
Edit: As for his weight gain, i posted pictures of 'tale of the tapes' from his fight with Morales right up until his fight with Clottey. His weight come fight night only showed a 5lb differential. Inn other words, even at Super-Featherweight against Morales in 06, Manny weighed 144lbs on the night of the fight. Against Clottey in 2010 he weighed 149lbs. People tend to ignore this when pointing out he has moved up several divisions, but it's unfair to do so. His fight night weight is his more natural weight. His weigh-in weight will vary depending on the level of dehydration and muscle glycogen depletion. So in real terms, he's actually only 5lb heavier than he was 4 years ago.
you need to keep callories to put on muscle dude
im telling you, what you are explaining a person wouldnt put on any muscle at all
they would be extremely fit, but they wouldnt gain muscle
if you are eating 7000 callories and burning 6500 with this training routine you would struggle to maintain your weight
if this was posible then every bodybuilder in the world would be doing it
This once again makes no sense whatsoever. If he's burning 6,500 calories per day (i never once said his training routine was responsible for burning 6,500 cals - i estimated that that's the amount of calories he is burning off per day) and he's consuming over 7,000 he will carry over at least 500 calories. Combined with muscle building exercises this will provide a platform for him to add lean muscle mass. I really don't know how to make it any clearer. I know plenty of athletes who aim to put on muscle by consuming around 500 calories more than they burn off per day.
I don't understand your brain.
dude im telling you, ive been in the muscle building game for a long time and its very far fetched
high in the sky
what you are saying makes sense in a fantasy world
natural bodybuilders train for building muscle and nothing else
if a professional natural bodybuilder at pacs age put on 8lbs of muscle in 6 months, with any amount of fat it would be a good achievement
to put on 8lbs of muscle in 6 months lean is astonishing, not human and not believable, even on gear it would be a fantastic ahievement
if you are doing all the fitness training as well it would be counter productive which makes it even more unbelievable
im not saying that is what pac has done, are you?
if you really want to learn about building muscle, join uk-muscle and have these discussion with professional muscle builders, as i said before you will get an unanimous opinion
You're not reading properly. Nobody has said he has put on a lean 8lbs in 6 months. I am saying that this is the amount he has put on since 2006. That is 4 years. I'll say it again. Now read this part very, very carefully...
Manny Pacquaio weighed 144lbs when he fought Erik Morales in 2006. He weighed 149lbs when he fought Josua Clottey in 2010. He will probably weigh 150-152 when he fights Antonio Margarito. Is that clear mate?
I don't need to join muscletalk. I studied Sports Nutrition for 2 years.
Oh and the correct phrase is 'Pie in the sky', not 'High in the sky'
dude chill, we are having a chilled conversation here
well dude if thats all you are saying we arent disagreeing
5lbs in 4 years is very achieveable
and like you said, especially for a professional sportsman, 5lbs in 4 years should be easy
if we were talking 8lbs in 6 months everyone would be walking round like rocky
and its high in the sky where i come from, pie in the sky is from the 60s, when the recreational drugs revolution happened in the 90s and everyone was off it, it changed :)
sure you got your figures right?
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Re: Now some time has passed.. Your final vote on Pac's refusal...
This is a very enlightening exchange of ideas. Kudos to the harbinger and the lively participants to this thread. While I stay on the side, a sponge to the interchanges, it is to be commended, the level of energy on the effort of all parties to enlighten. Thanks!
A request to Mr. eric44, if you may... please add an emoticon at the end of each and every argument that you have...it allows for an easier understanding on the merits that you attempt to bring out each and every time you post! Thank you.
-
Re: Now some time has passed.. Your final vote on Pac's refusal...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
KananKrus
This is a very enlightening exchange of ideas. Kudos to the harbinger and the lively participants to this thread. While I stay on the side, a sponge to the interchanges, it is to be commended, the level of energy on the effort of all parties to enlighten. Thanks!
A request to Mr. eric44, if you may... please add an emoticon at the end of each and every argument that you have...it allows for an easier understanding on the merits that you attempt to bring out each and every time you post! Thank you.
do you meen like this
dude you dont know what you are talking about :D
i know more about muscles than you :lickish:
when erect, my penis is bigger than yours ;D
-
Re: Now some time has passed.. Your final vote on Pac's refusal...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
erics44
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ono
Quote:
Originally Posted by
erics44
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ono
Quote:
Originally Posted by
erics44
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ono
Quote:
Originally Posted by
erics44
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ono
8000 calories a day for an athlete who is training for 3-5 hours per day isn't far fetched. You're gaining a lot of fat because you don't have anywhere the same activity level as Pacquiao has. You clearly don't have the activity level to support your current energy intake.
The bit where you said people over 23 don't build lean muscle isn't true. It's not true in any way shape or form. I don't understand the bit about bodybuilders taking steroids, but bulking like 'natty's. Do you mean, even steroid using bodybuilders have to increase calories intake just like a regular natural bodybuilder? If so, of course they do. That's because there is a science to putting on lean muscle. You seem to hinting at the notion that bodybuilders rely on steroids because they have exhausted all other avenues. In my experience, this is far from true.
It seems like you are arguing over a redundant point which has been peddled by some idiot who's trying to justify his own steroid cycle, over on a bodybuilding site.
i didnt say over 23s dont put on lean muscle, i said it becomes very difficult, very quickly as you get over that age, obviously it depends on the person, some sooner others later
say at 26, 27, 28 or 29 to put on anymore than 5lbs of lean muscle a year would be very difficult and there is no way you would put lean muscle on eating 8000 calories a day when you are 10 stone
i never said bodybuilders rely on steriods (please point out where i did if i did) i said both steriod users and nattys use the same methods, eat over 2500 calories a day and put on fat as well as muscle
dude eating 8000 calories is unrealistic for anyone, especially someone of 10 stone, do you know how much food that is? the only way i can think of doing it would be on a liquid diet, and it would be pointless anyway, eating all that and training so much, they would kind of offset each other
www.uk-muscle.co.uk is full of competing bodybuilders, some who bodybuild for a living and most who make it their sole purpose in life, start a thread called - could you put on lean muscle eating 8000 calories a day at 10 stone - and see what the response is, argue it is manny pac you are talking about, and see if you get any further
You said over 23's don't generally put on lean muscle.
"The second part of Ariza’s training module involves extremely high caloric intake. He has Pacquiao consuming over 7000 calories of food per day, alternating between high protein solid foods and then liquid protein shakes. Pacquiao is forced to eat at least every two hours, whether he’s hungry or not. Contrary to the myth that Pacquiao enjoys fighting at higher weights because he can eat all he wants, Ariza says the constant consumption of food actually gets to the fighter, even if he’s eating his favorite Filipino dishes."
This is taken from an interview with Pacquiao's nutritionist and the full article is on this site
http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfor...gime-diet.html
He doesn't give an exact figure but he mentions that it is above 7,000 cals, so for arguments sake let's settle on 7,000.
He has to eat that much because if he went much lower, he wouldn't eat enough to meet his energy requirements. His energy requirements are so high because he undertakes a very vigorous training camp.
You keep mentioning that he can't possibly put on lean muscle when his calories are so high and when he's naturally so small. I'll try and explain it differently to you mate...
If he's consuming 7,000 calories per day day, but burning off 6,500 that's an aggregate of 500 calories. Now that is the same as you consuming 2,500 and burning off 2,000. The only difference is, Manny's activity level is much much higher than yours, so he needs to up his calorie intake to compensate for it. If he didn't, he wouldn't be able to maintain his existing weight, let alone put on weight.
Are you with me so far?
Quick recap....he has to consume more calories than he is burning off. So that's why it's above 7,000. From that information you can gather he is burning around 6,000 - 6,500 calories per day through training camp.
Edit: As for his weight gain, i posted pictures of 'tale of the tapes' from his fight with Morales right up until his fight with Clottey. His weight come fight night only showed a 5lb differential. Inn other words, even at Super-Featherweight against Morales in 06, Manny weighed 144lbs on the night of the fight. Against Clottey in 2010 he weighed 149lbs. People tend to ignore this when pointing out he has moved up several divisions, but it's unfair to do so. His fight night weight is his more natural weight. His weigh-in weight will vary depending on the level of dehydration and muscle glycogen depletion. So in real terms, he's actually only 5lb heavier than he was 4 years ago.
you need to keep callories to put on muscle dude
im telling you, what you are explaining a person wouldnt put on any muscle at all
they would be extremely fit, but they wouldnt gain muscle
if you are eating 7000 callories and burning 6500 with this training routine you would struggle to maintain your weight
if this was posible then every bodybuilder in the world would be doing it
This once again makes no sense whatsoever. If he's burning 6,500 calories per day (i never once said his training routine was responsible for burning 6,500 cals - i estimated that that's the amount of calories he is burning off per day) and he's consuming over 7,000 he will carry over at least 500 calories. Combined with muscle building exercises this will provide a platform for him to add lean muscle mass. I really don't know how to make it any clearer. I know plenty of athletes who aim to put on muscle by consuming around 500 calories more than they burn off per day.
I don't understand your brain.
dude im telling you, ive been in the muscle building game for a long time and its very far fetched
high in the sky
what you are saying makes sense in a fantasy world
natural bodybuilders train for building muscle and nothing else
if a professional natural bodybuilder at pacs age put on 8lbs of muscle in 6 months, with any amount of fat it would be a good achievement
to put on 8lbs of muscle in 6 months lean is astonishing, not human and not believable, even on gear it would be a fantastic ahievement
if you are doing all the fitness training as well it would be counter productive which makes it even more unbelievable
im not saying that is what pac has done, are you?
if you really want to learn about building muscle, join uk-muscle and have these discussion with professional muscle builders, as i said before you will get an unanimous opinion
You're not reading properly. Nobody has said he has put on a lean 8lbs in 6 months. I am saying that this is the amount he has put on since 2006. That is 4 years. I'll say it again. Now read this part very, very carefully...
Manny Pacquaio weighed 144lbs when he fought Erik Morales in 2006. He weighed 149lbs when he fought Josua Clottey in 2010. He will probably weigh 150-152 when he fights Antonio Margarito. Is that clear mate?
I don't need to join muscletalk. I studied Sports Nutrition for 2 years.
Oh and the correct phrase is 'Pie in the sky', not 'High in the sky'
dude chill, we are having a chilled conversation here
well dude if thats all you are saying we arent disagreeing
5lbs in 4 years is very achieveable
and like you said, especially for a professional sportsman, 5lbs in 4 years should be easy
if we were talking 8lbs in 6 months everyone would be walking round like rocky
and its high in the sky where i come from, pie in the sky is from the 60s, when the recreational drugs revolution happened in the 90s and everyone was off it, it changed :)
sure you got your figures right?
Haha finally. ;D
Yeah figures are right. I've checked the 'tale of the tapes' shown by HBO on fight nights. Pacquiao has for the last 4 years at least, come into the ring between 144 - 149llbs.
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Re: Now some time has passed.. Your final vote on Pac's refusal...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ono
Haha finally. ;D
Yeah figures are right. I've checked the 'tale of the tapes' shown by HBO on fight nights. Pacquiao has for the last 4 years at least, come into the ring between 144 - 149llbs.
:)
he's still a roider tho :lickish:
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Re: Now some time has passed.. Your final vote on Pac's refusal...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
erics44
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ono
Haha finally. ;D
Yeah figures are right. I've checked the 'tale of the tapes' shown by HBO on fight nights. Pacquiao has for the last 4 years at least, come into the ring between 144 - 149llbs.
:)
he's still a roider tho :lickish:
Haha
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Re: Now some time has passed.. Your final vote on Pac's refusal...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
erics44
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ono
Haha finally. ;D
Yeah figures are right. I've checked the 'tale of the tapes' shown by HBO on fight nights. Pacquiao has for the last 4 years at least, come into the ring between 144 - 149llbs.
:)
he's still a roider tho :lickish:
I'm actually convinced YOUR a roider too ;)
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Re: Now some time has passed.. Your final vote on Pac's refusal...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Boogie Man
Quote:
Originally Posted by
erics44
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ono
Haha finally. ;D
Yeah figures are right. I've checked the 'tale of the tapes' shown by HBO on fight nights. Pacquiao has for the last 4 years at least, come into the ring between 144 - 149llbs.
:)
he's still a roider tho :lickish:
I'm actually convinced YOUR a roider too ;)
YOURE as in you are, you're
tut, degenerate :cool:
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Re: Now some time has passed.. Your final vote on Pac's refusal...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
erics44
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Boogie Man
Quote:
Originally Posted by
erics44
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ono
Haha finally. ;D
Yeah figures are right. I've checked the 'tale of the tapes' shown by HBO on fight nights. Pacquiao has for the last 4 years at least, come into the ring between 144 - 149llbs.
:)
he's still a roider tho :lickish:
I'm actually convinced YOUR a roider too ;)
YOURE as in you are, you're
tut, degenerate :cool:
Listen, if spellchecker ain't pickin' it up then neither the fuck am I :cool:
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Re: Now some time has passed.. Your final vote on Pac's refusal...
I do believe the needles to close to a fight theory. My father is a good example. Whenever he would have blood taken he would be sick for a couple of days. I have seen it first hand. So I can't be swayed otherwise until Pac is proven guilty. We do have to remember Pac did advise to do it a little further from the fight day. I believe 21 days and Floyd denied.
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Re: Now some time has passed.. Your final vote on Pac's refusal...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Fightfan
I do believe the needles to close to a fight theory. My father is a good example. Whenever he would have blood taken he would be sick for a couple of days. I have seen it first hand. So I can't be swayed otherwise until Pac is proven guilty. We do have to remember Pac did advise to do it a little further from the fight day. I believe 21 days and Floyd denied.
The NSAC think so too. Floyd and Shane stopped testing 18 days before the fight cuz they're aware of potential danger of it too.
Testing RIGHT AFTER the fight is just as good testing right before the fight.
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Re: Now some time has passed.. Your final vote on Pac's refusal...
I was hugely disappointed with Pac Man and as an athlete their is a presumption that if you do not take the test then you are at least not guilty which is why many sportsmen are punished. However he had agreed to fight Floyd later on in the year and I would like to give him the benefit of the doubt.
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Re: Now some time has passed.. Your final vote on Pac's refusal...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ono
Quote:
Originally Posted by
erics44
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ono
Quote:
Originally Posted by
erics44
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ono
8000 calories a day for an athlete who is training for 3-5 hours per day isn't far fetched. You're gaining a lot of fat because you don't have anywhere the same activity level as Pacquiao has. You clearly don't have the activity level to support your current energy intake.
The bit where you said people over 23 don't build lean muscle isn't true. It's not true in any way shape or form. I don't understand the bit about bodybuilders taking steroids, but bulking like 'natty's. Do you mean, even steroid using bodybuilders have to increase calories intake just like a regular natural bodybuilder? If so, of course they do. That's because there is a science to putting on lean muscle. You seem to hinting at the notion that bodybuilders rely on steroids because they have exhausted all other avenues. In my experience, this is far from true.
It seems like you are arguing over a redundant point which has been peddled by some idiot who's trying to justify his own steroid cycle, over on a bodybuilding site.
i didnt say over 23s dont put on lean muscle, i said it becomes very difficult, very quickly as you get over that age, obviously it depends on the person, some sooner others later
say at 26, 27, 28 or 29 to put on anymore than 5lbs of lean muscle a year would be very difficult and there is no way you would put lean muscle on eating 8000 calories a day when you are 10 stone
i never said bodybuilders rely on steriods (please point out where i did if i did) i said both steriod users and nattys use the same methods, eat over 2500 calories a day and put on fat as well as muscle
dude eating 8000 calories is unrealistic for anyone, especially someone of 10 stone, do you know how much food that is? the only way i can think of doing it would be on a liquid diet, and it would be pointless anyway, eating all that and training so much, they would kind of offset each other
www.uk-muscle.co.uk is full of competing bodybuilders, some who bodybuild for a living and most who make it their sole purpose in life, start a thread called - could you put on lean muscle eating 8000 calories a day at 10 stone - and see what the response is, argue it is manny pac you are talking about, and see if you get any further
You said over 23's don't generally put on lean muscle.
"The second part of Ariza’s training module involves extremely high caloric intake. He has Pacquiao consuming over 7000 calories of food per day, alternating between high protein solid foods and then liquid protein shakes. Pacquiao is forced to eat at least every two hours, whether he’s hungry or not. Contrary to the myth that Pacquiao enjoys fighting at higher weights because he can eat all he wants, Ariza says the constant consumption of food actually gets to the fighter, even if he’s eating his favorite Filipino dishes."
This is taken from an interview with Pacquiao's nutritionist and the full article is on this site
http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfor...gime-diet.html
He doesn't give an exact figure but he mentions that it is above 7,000 cals, so for arguments sake let's settle on 7,000.
He has to eat that much because if he went much lower, he wouldn't eat enough to meet his energy requirements. His energy requirements are so high because he undertakes a very vigorous training camp.
You keep mentioning that he can't possibly put on lean muscle when his calories are so high and when he's naturally so small. I'll try and explain it differently to you mate...
If he's consuming 7,000 calories per day day, but burning off 6,500 that's an aggregate of 500 calories. Now that is the same as you consuming 2,500 and burning off 2,000. The only difference is, Manny's activity level is much much higher than yours, so he needs to up his calorie intake to compensate for it. If he didn't, he wouldn't be able to maintain his existing weight, let alone put on weight.
Are you with me so far?
Quick recap....he has to consume more calories than he is burning off. So that's why it's above 7,000. From that information you can gather he is burning around 6,000 - 6,500 calories per day through training camp.
Edit: As for his weight gain, i posted pictures of 'tale of the tapes' from his fight with Morales right up until his fight with Clottey. His weight come fight night only showed a 5lb differential. Inn other words, even at Super-Featherweight against Morales in 06, Manny weighed 144lbs on the night of the fight. Against Clottey in 2010 he weighed 149lbs. People tend to ignore this when pointing out he has moved up several divisions, but it's unfair to do so. His fight night weight is his more natural weight. His weigh-in weight will vary depending on the level of dehydration and muscle glycogen depletion. So in real terms, he's actually only 5lb heavier than he was 4 years ago.
you need to keep callories to put on muscle dude
im telling you, what you are explaining a person wouldnt put on any muscle at all
they would be extremely fit, but they wouldnt gain muscle
if you are eating 7000 callories and burning 6500 with this training routine you would struggle to maintain your weight
if this was posible then every bodybuilder in the world would be doing it
This once again makes no sense whatsoever. If he's burning 6,500 calories per day (i never once said his training routine was responsible for burning 6,500 cals - i estimated that that's the amount of calories he is burning off per day) and he's consuming over 7,000 he will carry over at least 500 calories. Combined with muscle building exercises this will provide a platform for him to add lean muscle mass. I really don't know how to make it any clearer. I know plenty of athletes who aim to put on muscle by consuming around 500 calories more than they burn off per day.
I don't understand your brain.
Nope.
The average male will burn 2000 calories a day when doing absolutely nothing. It's called BMR. Base metabolic rate. It's what your body needs in order to servive and function without losing any weight (muscle or fat)
If someone was to burn 6000 calories in the gym they would then need to consume at least another 2000 calories on top of that (meaning an intake of 8000 a day) to maintain weight other wise the body would start to eat muscle. To gain lean muscle you must then increase protein intake (which would be more calories. Weight lifting will only add lean muscle if the diet will provide the building blocks to do so.
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Re: Now some time has passed.. Your final vote on Pac's refusal...
Are you two still at it, kiss and make up. :)
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Re: Now some time has passed.. Your final vote on Pac's refusal...
Pacneedle's refusal to tests that Mayweather himself was willingly to take showed he's dirty. His acceptance of the same deal 8 months later proves without a doubt he's dirty. Why all of a sudden accept the same terms and conditions just like that? Why not accept them 8 months prior? Answer is obvious. He was dirty as fuck and spend the past 8 months completely cleaning out his system.
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Re: Now some time has passed.. Your final vote on Pac's refusal...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
Pacneedle's refusal to tests that Mayweather himself was willingly to take showed he's dirty. His acceptance of the same deal 8 months later proves without a doubt he's dirty. Why all of a sudden accept the same terms and conditions just like that? Why not accept them 8 months prior? Answer is obvious. He was dirty as fuck and spend the past 8 months completely cleaning out his system.
Yup! 110% agree with that.
