Re: Rocky Marciano's punching power
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BIG H
Quote:
Originally Posted by
nikola_ganchev
BIG H what you say makes absolutly no sence. From one weight up almost all guys can KO an oder guy with a single punch and this does not exclude Rocky! I will ask you something. Why big George boxed at only 99,7kg or 220 lbs? For me this is the guy with the most solid structure that i have ever seen! He can get really easy 200kg if he wishes(he was actually near this weight ;) ) Joe Louis boxed at 207 really ripped and was far from "smal" guy. The so called hardest hitting boxer Shavers boxed at 211 and he was far from the condition of Louis. He could have lost some more weight! I think you get the picture. There is no need to be gigantish in order to punch hard. Being so big like the sisters destroys the stamina no mater of the conditioning! This means unnecessery bulking is bad! You can look cool but it's not a bodybuilding competition! Rocky could have been 110/120 kg no problem with this stocky italian build, but is it neccessery? Would have this helped him punching harder or take punch better? NO! Would have this imobilized him and destoyed his working rate? YES! As i said it's not about punching power anymore, but effective punching and consistancy!
Dark Lord Al i think you haven't watch the fight in details... In this fight you see why the smal guys are not to be underrestemated! All the power punches which were landed were from Tuas side. The only thing that Lewis did was destroying Tuas frisure and clinching! It was all Tuas fout that he loosed the fight, but this is an oder subject!
What i want to say is that the skills, condition and style are playing much more bigger role than the size and after some dimentions the size don't help, but exactly the oposite is true!
Totally disagree with just about everything you say mate. Whether you accept it or not, people are just bigger now!! The average height of a man in the 60s was 5 ft 8, it is now 5 ft 11. The average weight was 166 pounds it's now 191 pounds. When I was at school I was a big tall kid at 5 ft 11. If I go in a pub now I am a midget. Rocky Marciano coulld never have been 120 Kgs without either being fat or built like Mariusz Pudzianowski. I totally accept size is not everything and I know all of the arguments about shorter fighters, look how Tyson used his height (or lack thereof) and lateral movement. But we are not talking about slight size differences. George Foreman was the biggest most fearsome sized heavyweight at 220 pounds, that's about the size of Adamnek. I'm not saying Tyson or Foreman couldn't live with today's heavyweights, but for Marciano it would be a bridge too far imo. We have even had to introduce a new division and subsequently change the max weight of that division to 205 pounds, because of the size that heavyweight boxers now are. If we were talking about 20 pounds, Marciano's ability woud bridge the gap in size. But giving away 65 pounds to a fighter like Vitali.....
As for Tua, that fight was a shut out, Lewis schooled him and Tua was probaly heavier than Lewis anyway
You are right that we are heavier now, but this has to do with our oversize and crap that we are eating. About the hight it depends where you read it. I saw a study that makes this diference in hight for the period of 150 yeas. But evan as you say it 3 inches in this direction don't make the difference ;) The think that i wanted to point out is that Forman was monster and this 220 pounds is his non pumped weight! This is only functional weight! If you watch the training of almost all new boxers you will see that they pump alot! Being 1.90+ it's easy to be more than 220 pounds with this typer of training, nutrition and chemistry, but is this functional?
Re: Rocky Marciano's punching power
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BIG H
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BIG H
Quote:
Originally Posted by
nikola_ganchev
BIG H what you say makes absolutly no sence. From one weight up almost all guys can KO an oder guy with a single punch and this does not exclude Rocky! I will ask you something. Why big George boxed at only 99,7kg or 220 lbs? For me this is the guy with the most solid structure that i have ever seen! He can get really easy 200kg if he wishes(he was actually near this weight ;) ) Joe Louis boxed at 207 really ripped and was far from "smal" guy. The so called hardest hitting boxer Shavers boxed at 211 and he was far from the condition of Louis. He could have lost some more weight! I think you get the picture. There is no need to be gigantish in order to punch hard. Being so big like the sisters destroys the stamina no mater of the conditioning! This means unnecessery bulking is bad! You can look cool but it's not a bodybuilding competition! Rocky could have been 110/120 kg no problem with this stocky italian build, but is it neccessery? Would have this helped him punching harder or take punch better? NO! Would have this imobilized him and destoyed his working rate? YES! As i said it's not about punching power anymore, but effective punching and consistancy!
Dark Lord Al i think you haven't watch the fight in details... In this fight you see why the smal guys are not to be underrestemated! All the power punches which were landed were from Tuas side. The only thing that Lewis did was destroying Tuas frisure and clinching! It was all Tuas fout that he loosed the fight, but this is an oder subject!
What i want to say is that the skills, condition and style are playing much more bigger role than the size and after some dimentions the size don't help, but exactly the oposite is true!
Totally disagree with just about everything you say mate. Whether you accept it or not, people are just bigger now!! The average height of a man in the 60s was 5 ft 8, it is now 5 ft 11. The average weight was 166 pounds it's now 191 pounds. When I was at school I was a big tall kid at 5 ft 11. If I go in a pub now I am a midget. Rocky Marciano coulld never have been 120 Kgs without either being fat or built like Mariusz Pudzianowski. I totally accept size is not everything and I know all of the arguments about shorter fighters, look how Tyson used his height (or lack thereof) and lateral movement. But we are not talking about slight size differences. George Foreman was the biggest most fearsome sized heavyweight at 220 pounds, that's about the size of Adamnek. I'm not saying Tyson or Foreman couldn't live with today's heavyweights, but for Marciano it would be a bridge too far imo. We have even had to introduce a new division and subsequently change the max weight of that division to 205 pounds, because of the size that heavyweight boxers now are. If we were talking about 20 pounds, Marciano's ability woud bridge the gap in size. But giving away 65 pounds to a fighter like Vitali.....
As for Tua, that fight was a shut out, Lewis schooled him and Tua was probaly heavier than Lewis anyway
I thought the average height of a man was 5'9 mate ? in the UK anyway, as for Mike Tyson he was only 5'11 but he was 220 pound beast. He was knocking out big 6'3 plus guys like Ruddock, Williams, Holmes, Biggs, easily.
Im sorry but no way would either of the Klitschko brothers, beat a prime Mike Tyson. Carl Williams was 6'5 and a skilled Heavyweight, and Tyrell Biggs was 6'6 and skilled aswell.
And neither of them could keep Mike Tyson off them, both men didn't have the best chins in the world. But neither has Wladimir Klitschko, and even Vitali Klitschko's chin would shatter eventually.
I wasn't talking about Tyson, I was talking about Marciano ;)
Yea i know i was just talking generally really, because im hearing alot of people saying Klitschko brothers, would beat Mike Tyson because of there height nonsense IMO mate.
Well you know my theory on Tyson we've debated it loads over the years. I still think that on his night he could've beaten just about anybody in history. After the Spinks fight every man, woman,child and more importantly 'boxing expert' would've had Tyson only behind Ali as an ATHG. Had he have retired that fight, everybody would still feel the same. For me, what happend afterwards did not reveal a weakness and something that was always going to happen when he fought better opposition. He always had physcological weaknesses and self doubt, but they never stopped him being the fighter he was. Against Douglas he was undoubtedly completely underprepared mentally and physically (being a 42-1 favourite in a 2 horse race illustrates how easy it was supposed to be). He had lost Jimmy Jacobs, his marriage was on the ropes and I think he was probably on drugs too (but that's just my opinion) He also happened to meet an unbelievably good Buster Douglas (and still gave him a long count) After the Douglas fight we all know what happend.
Re: Rocky Marciano's punching power
You know... It's only just occurred to me, how similar a young Tyson & Marciano are, style wise.... Ridiculous side-to-side-movement aside... They look very similar.
Watch Marciano Louis the Tyson Spinks and hopefully you'll see what I mean.
Re: Rocky Marciano's punching power
Don’t want to ruffle any feathers but Marciano was not the puncher that he is given credit for. KO ratios only tell one side of the story. I think he would have been a Chuvalo in the 60’s and 70’s. Marciano is an American folk hero and was a tough sob in his time but lets be honest here. He fought in arguably the weakest era in heavyweight history. Charles was far from Charles, who knows how old Walcott was and Moore was a shadow of his former self. To the punching power, their have been plenty of bigger punchers then Marciano since his day and before him. You want to talk about a small heavyweight with a punch then how about Langford? What about Satterfield? You don’t see his name mentioned on to many top 5 punchers lists. Max Baer could punch. Shavers goes w/o saying. It’s great what Marciano did but people really need to put things into perspective. I suppose the biggest unknown in these hypothetical comparisons is the “times”. Even if one had a time machine to put these match-ups to the test, you could not beam over “way of life” Nod goes to Marciano on that one although he’d be just as fk’d up being beamed to 1972 let alone 1990 as anyone else being beamed back to 1952.
Re: Rocky Marciano's punching power
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BIG H
Quote:
Originally Posted by
nikola_ganchev
BIG H what you say makes absolutly no sence. From one weight up almost all guys can KO an oder guy with a single punch and this does not exclude Rocky! I will ask you something. Why big George boxed at only 99,7kg or 220 lbs? For me this is the guy with the most solid structure that i have ever seen! He can get really easy 200kg if he wishes(he was actually near this weight ;) ) Joe Louis boxed at 207 really ripped and was far from "smal" guy. The so called hardest hitting boxer Shavers boxed at 211 and he was far from the condition of Louis. He could have lost some more weight! I think you get the picture. There is no need to be gigantish in order to punch hard. Being so big like the sisters destroys the stamina no mater of the conditioning! This means unnecessery bulking is bad! You can look cool but it's not a bodybuilding competition! Rocky could have been 110/120 kg no problem with this stocky italian build, but is it neccessery? Would have this helped him punching harder or take punch better? NO! Would have this imobilized him and destoyed his working rate? YES! As i said it's not about punching power anymore, but effective punching and consistancy!
Dark Lord Al i think you haven't watch the fight in details... In this fight you see why the smal guys are not to be underrestemated! All the power punches which were landed were from Tuas side. The only thing that Lewis did was destroying Tuas frisure and clinching! It was all Tuas fout that he loosed the fight, but this is an oder subject!
What i want to say is that the skills, condition and style are playing much more bigger role than the size and after some dimentions the size don't help, but exactly the oposite is true!
Totally disagree with just about everything you say mate. Whether you accept it or not, people are just bigger now!! The average height of a man in the 60s was 5 ft 8, it is now 5 ft 11. The average weight was 166 pounds it's now 191 pounds. When I was at school I was a big tall kid at 5 ft 11. If I go in a pub now I am a midget. Rocky Marciano coulld never have been 120 Kgs without either being fat or built like Mariusz Pudzianowski. I totally accept size is not everything and I know all of the arguments about shorter fighters, look how Tyson used his height (or lack thereof) and lateral movement. But we are not talking about slight size differences. George Foreman was the biggest most fearsome sized heavyweight at 220 pounds, that's about the size of Adamnek. I'm not saying Tyson or Foreman couldn't live with today's heavyweights, but for Marciano it would be a bridge too far imo. We have even had to introduce a new division and subsequently change the max weight of that division to 205 pounds, because of the size that heavyweight boxers now are. If we were talking about 20 pounds, Marciano's ability woud bridge the gap in size. But giving away 65 pounds to a fighter like Vitali.....
As for Tua, that fight was a shut out, Lewis schooled him and Tua was probaly heavier than Lewis anyway
I thought the average height of a man was 5'9 mate ? in the UK anyway, as for Mike Tyson he was only 5'11 but he was 220 pound beast. He was knocking out big 6'3 plus guys like Ruddock, Williams, Holmes, Biggs, easily.
Im sorry but no way would either of the Klitschko brothers, beat a prime Mike Tyson. Carl Williams was 6'5 and a skilled Heavyweight, and Tyrell Biggs was 6'6 and skilled aswell.
And neither of them could keep Mike Tyson off them, both men didn't have the best chins in the world. But neither has Wladimir Klitschko, and even Vitali Klitschko's chin would shatter eventually.
This thread is regarding Rocky , Tyson wasnt from the same era , he was bigger and faster , so i fail to see , how that is relivant ICE ? explain
Re: Rocky Marciano's punching power
Hey guys, lets bury the tomahawk. Evan Rockyis not a hevyweigh on the modern scales he has it. He will be successful against some boxers and against he won't! The sad story is that boxing is diying and the new guys are not a warriors. They are not a showmans what they are suposed to be! It's not about shape,form or size, but it's about entertainmant and etnical pride. That's the problem the new guys don't have it!
Re: Rocky Marciano's punching power
Rocky Marciano, ahhhhhhh, the Rock. Did he ever fail to rise to the occasion? Behind in several fights, refs/doctors close to stopping it, he always conquered. Tough as frikkin nails, and the toughness is what would make him walk right thru just about everybody, then and now. He got WALLOPPED by Walcott all night long, look at the power JJW had even at 38, he hit harder than Holyfield or Holmes for sure. Some of his punches jolted Marciano a few inches in the air, like Foreman did to Frazier. ABsolutely BRUTAL was Walcott.
Re: Rocky Marciano's punching power
Re: Rocky Marciano's punching power
Quote:
Originally Posted by
brocktonblockbust
Rocky Marciano, ahhhhhhh, the Rock. Did he ever fail to rise to the occasion? Behind in several fights, refs/doctors close to stopping it, he always conquered. Tough as frikkin nails, and the toughness is what would make him walk right thru just about everybody, then and now. He got WALLOPPED by Walcott all night long, look at the power JJW had even at 38, he hit harder than Holyfield or Holmes for sure. Some of his punches jolted Marciano a few inches in the air, like Foreman did to Frazier. ABsolutely BRUTAL was Walcott.
Walcott brutal ? he Koed 32 of 71 oponants , he wasnt a huge puncher in his day , and compared to todays fighters he would have little power.
Re: Rocky Marciano's punching power
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jimanuel Boogustus
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
Quote:
Originally Posted by
brocktonblockbust
Rocky Marciano, ahhhhhhh, the Rock. Did he ever fail to rise to the occasion? Behind in several fights, refs/doctors close to stopping it, he always conquered. Tough as frikkin nails, and the toughness is what would make him walk right thru just about everybody, then and now. He got WALLOPPED by Walcott all night long, look at the power JJW had even at 38, he hit harder than Holyfield or Holmes for sure. Some of his punches jolted Marciano a few inches in the air, like Foreman did to Frazier. ABsolutely BRUTAL was Walcott.
Walcott brutal ? he Koed 32 of 71 oponants , he wasnt a huge puncher in his day , and compared to todays fighters he would have little power.
I disagree. He dropped Marciano and stopped Charles. He may of even dropped Louis??? He certainly wasn't a powder puff.
He kinda reminds me off that guy Roy Jones got DQ'd against...
Montell Griffin ?
Re: Rocky Marciano's punching power
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jimanuel Boogustus
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
Quote:
Originally Posted by
brocktonblockbust
Rocky Marciano, ahhhhhhh, the Rock. Did he ever fail to rise to the occasion? Behind in several fights, refs/doctors close to stopping it, he always conquered. Tough as frikkin nails, and the toughness is what would make him walk right thru just about everybody, then and now. He got WALLOPPED by Walcott all night long, look at the power JJW had even at 38, he hit harder than Holyfield or Holmes for sure. Some of his punches jolted Marciano a few inches in the air, like Foreman did to Frazier. ABsolutely BRUTAL was Walcott.
Walcott brutal ? he Koed 32 of 71 oponants , he wasnt a huge puncher in his day , and compared to todays fighters he would have little power.
I disagree. He dropped Marciano and stopped Charles. He may of even dropped Louis??? He certainly wasn't a powder puff.
He kinda reminds me off that guy Roy Jones got DQ'd against...
That punch he ko'ed Charles with was a beauty. It was a like a check left hook wasn't it ?
Re: Rocky Marciano's punching power
He slao dropped Marciano with a hook, off the same move if I remember correctly. Dropped Louis twice with pretty snaky right hands.
Re: Rocky Marciano's punching power
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jimanuel Boogustus
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
Quote:
Originally Posted by
brocktonblockbust
Rocky Marciano, ahhhhhhh, the Rock. Did he ever fail to rise to the occasion? Behind in several fights, refs/doctors close to stopping it, he always conquered. Tough as frikkin nails, and the toughness is what would make him walk right thru just about everybody, then and now. He got WALLOPPED by Walcott all night long, look at the power JJW had even at 38, he hit harder than Holyfield or Holmes for sure. Some of his punches jolted Marciano a few inches in the air, like Foreman did to Frazier. ABsolutely BRUTAL was Walcott.
Walcott brutal ? he Koed 32 of 71 oponants , he wasnt a huge puncher in his day , and compared to todays fighters he would have little power.
I disagree. He dropped Marciano and stopped Charles. He may of even dropped Louis??? He certainly wasn't a powder puff.
He kinda reminds me off that guy Roy Jones got DQ'd against...
That punch he ko'ed Charles with was a beauty. It was a like a check left hook wasn't it ?
Actually it as a bit like the "SMASH" Razor Ruddock used to throw , left hook / uppercut.
Re: Rocky Marciano's punching power
I thought it was a sweet left hook Walcott landed on Charles.
Re: Rocky Marciano's punching power
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jimanuel Boogustus
it was an uppercut.
It was a left hook. :)
Re: Rocky Marciano's punching power
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jimanuel Boogustus
it was an uppercut.
It was a left hook. :)
it was a "SMASH" ;D
Re: Rocky Marciano's punching power
It was deffo an cross between a hook and an upercut, more of a hook though. Al nailed it, with the Ruddock thing. It was like teh Dokes KO. In fact those are two of the most brutal (Walcott & Ruddock) left hands I have ever seen. (both of the lefts that Ruddock hit Dokes with)
Re: Rocky Marciano's punching power
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BIG H
It was deffo an cross between a hook and an upercut, more of a hook though. Al nailed it, with the Ruddock thing. It was like teh Dokes KO. In fact those are two of the most brutal (Walcott & Ruddock) left hands I have ever seen. (both of the lefts that Ruddock hit Dokes with)
I dunno what happened to Razor Ruddock, because when he was sparring with Larry Holmes. He had some good skills, and actually showed some good movement aswell.
But he fell in love with his power, and turned into basically a one armed fighter.
