Re: Kostya Tszyu hall of fame induction
Oh for sure theres no doubt they'd be the same at the same weight.
Unless they are going for broke the heavies can put me to sleep, but hey I understand the added danger and what can occur at any time thing too, which keeps most on the edge of their seats, its all a personal choice.:cool:
I dont mind some of the faster pace of the very light weights but not the run of the mill ones, I know what you mean it can appear like an amateur style of fast scoring only type of style.
Around Feather is my favorite. I like what the speed of the fight forcing what their non thinking reactions can bring out,you see some unexpected and natural instinct in techniques. Elbow checks ,slight deflecting twists,disruptions all while still staying nose to nose.
Ahh where would Mexican boxing be without the lighter weights? The wars that occur below WW seem to go on for a lot longer too and heart comes into play a bit more down there at times these days than in the higher weights i feel. :)
Re: Kostya Tszyu hall of fame induction
Quote:
Originally Posted by
THE THIRD MAN
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mr140
Mosley at age 36 to 40 had that record and look who he fought during that period. Kt lost to fucking VP and never avenged it so kinda has a mark on his career and then to Hatton and then quiet at 36. He beat Oscars left overs JCC and then his best wins are Judah and Mitchell i mean not that impressive. I mean he has beat no Atgs anywhere near there prime or even Hofs. He was in a weak division and never moved up to change that he is far step below a Mosely or Dela Hoya and far from a atg.
The greatest ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about.
The rematch was going to happen, but Millet KO'd Phillips and Tszyu went onto fight Miguel Angel Gonzalez. Weak division? In 2001 the Jr Welter division was often recognised as the most exciting and best division in boxing. DLH still could've fought Tszyu in 97, instead he went for an ageing Whitaker, Mosley avoided him completely by leap frogging straight up to 147lb!
I doubt very much if anyone would not place Tszyu in their top 3 Jr Welters of all time, if they don't please refer to opening statement above.
Mosley avoided him? Mosley went where the money was & that was straight to Oscar. Yeah, Mosley's power dropped a bit up at 147, but he still KO'd most guys. I would definitely fancy him to have retained a fair bit more at 140. I think it would have been an intriguing fight, but it didn't happen & that was that. You say the Phillips loss to Millett got rid of the need for Tszyu to rematch him, but he had a year of facing easier guys to get his hands back on alphabet rather than take it from the man who beat him. Yet ODLH should have fought a guy who'd just been stopped by Vince Phillips?
Tszyu is a top 3 140lber of all time in the sense of being a man who campaigned at the division. He's in IBHOF. But, his resume is really lacking. It's got some goodish names, but this 16 world champs thing just highlights how the alphabets have made it so easy to be a world champ. To put it into context, Kendall Holt has fought 5 world champions. Holt's talent being discussed alongside Tszyu's is mad, it should not even be in the same country let alone ballpark.
I mean, which of the guys he fought are getting into the Hall of Fame? Chavez obviously has & that fight is soured slightly by the fact he was only one fight removed from being beat by Willy Wise, but the manner of victory still gives it some validity. Hatton is a possible & imo probable entry, regardless of his resume probably being too thin. Judah would have to beat Khan & Bradley to be the lineal champ at 140 as well. Roger Mayweather might blag his way in as a trainer but that's it.
I give Tszyu his credit, he's deservedly in the IBHOF, but the fact is he will not be the first face to rush to mind when we think of the greatest fighters of the 90s & 00s, certainly not outside Australia.
Re: Kostya Tszyu hall of fame induction
I wonder if it was the real risk of maybe being stopped at 140 that made him and Floyd step over the weight, or the class of opponent at 147 or money? :-\. I doubt the money.but money to risk ratio maybe.
Just thinking aloud here: If it was me in their shoes and I thought I had Kostya number I would have stopped there with bells on to take that scalp and pave my way into WW they'd see me comming.
Guaranteed war too, so there's always more risk. Maybe one not worth taking as you say?:-\
Re: Kostya Tszyu hall of fame induction
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Andre
I wonder if it was the real risk of maybe being stopped at 140 that made him and Floyd step over the weight, or the class of opponent at 147 or money? :-\. I doubt the money.but money to risk ratio maybe.
Just thinking aloud here: If it was me in their shoes and I thought I had Kostya number I would have stopped there with bells on to take that scalp and pave my way into WW they'd see me comming.
Guaranteed war too, so there's always more risk. Maybe one not worth taking as you say?:-\
Mayweather didn't step over the weight. He & Tszyu had a planned fight to unify the WBC & IBF belts after they'd both had their money bouts against Gatti & Hatton. That would have been great. Thanks a fucking lot Dave Parris :(
I think the one knock on both Tszyu & Pryor is that they never really even tried stepping up. We always go on about the original weight-classes, so how would they have done in those times. I don't know about Pryor, but I would have loved to have seen Tszyu possibly in the mix with the Welters around 2002/3. A rematch in the pros with Forrest or fights with Margarito, Mayorga or Mosley would have been great.
Re: Kostya Tszyu hall of fame induction
Yeah,he made a smart days work of Shamba and Hatton (oh I forgot Judah too) so going on that, Kostya could of been in trouble too. We should really give Floyd more props for going all the way to 154 for Oscar too. Careful aim in who and when but he got the job done.
Re: Kostya Tszyu hall of fame induction
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JazMerkin
Quote:
Originally Posted by
THE THIRD MAN
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mr140
Mosley at age 36 to 40 had that record and look who he fought during that period. Kt lost to fucking VP and never avenged it so kinda has a mark on his career and then to Hatton and then quiet at 36. He beat Oscars left overs JCC and then his best wins are Judah and Mitchell i mean not that impressive. I mean he has beat no Atgs anywhere near there prime or even Hofs. He was in a weak division and never moved up to change that he is far step below a Mosely or Dela Hoya and far from a atg.
The greatest ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about.
The rematch was going to happen, but Millet KO'd Phillips and Tszyu went onto fight Miguel Angel Gonzalez. Weak division? In 2001 the Jr Welter division was often recognised as the most exciting and best division in boxing. DLH still could've fought Tszyu in 97, instead he went for an ageing Whitaker, Mosley avoided him completely by leap frogging straight up to 147lb!
I doubt very much if anyone would not place Tszyu in their top 3 Jr Welters of all time, if they don't please refer to opening statement above.
Mosley avoided him? Mosley went where the money was & that was straight to Oscar. Yeah, Mosley's power dropped a bit up at 147, but he still KO'd most guys. I would definitely fancy him to have retained a fair bit more at 140. I think it would have been an intriguing fight, but it didn't happen & that was that. You say the Phillips loss to Millett got rid of the need for Tszyu to rematch him, but he had a year of facing easier guys to get his hands back on alphabet rather than take it from the man who beat him. Yet ODLH should have fought a guy who'd just been stopped by Vince Phillips?
Tszyu is a top 3 140lber of all time in the sense of being a man who campaigned at the division. He's in IBHOF. But, his resume is really lacking. It's got some goodish names, but this 16 world champs thing just highlights how the alphabets have made it so easy to be a world champ. To put it into context, Kendall Holt has fought 5 world champions. Holt's talent being discussed alongside Tszyu's is mad, it should not even be in the same country let alone ballpark.
I mean, which of the guys he fought are getting into the Hall of Fame? Chavez obviously has & that fight is soured slightly by the fact he was only one fight removed from being beat by Willy Wise, but the manner of victory still gives it some validity. Hatton is a possible & imo probable entry, regardless of his resume probably being too thin. Judah would have to beat Khan & Bradley to be the lineal champ at 140 as well. Roger Mayweather might blag his way in as a trainer but that's it.
I give Tszyu his credit, he's deservedly in the IBHOF, but the fact is he will not be the first face to rush to mind when we think of the greatest fighters of the 90s & 00s, certainly not outside Australia.
Mosley didn't go straight to Oscar, it took him two fights (Rivera & Wise) and more than a year after being Lightweight champ before he met Oscar, i guess just like Tszyu in 1998 when he took fights to regain confidence Mosley did the same thing and took some fights to gain confidence at the new weight. He could've easily thrown out the challenge to Tszyu after he beat Gonzalez in August of 1999, i understand he went for the big pay day, but he didn't go there directly. I just think he thought Tszyu was too dangerous a fight to have and why risk it? I also still think Oscar must have thrown a party when Phillips beat Tszyu!
Re: Kostya Tszyu hall of fame induction
I still don't get why KT never went to the WW division and why Proyer never did either find it weird. I mean both divisions were lacking talent and the division above them had all the names in it. I mean Kt fought when Dela Hoya, Forrest, Mosley, and Trinadad were just a weight above him. Same thing with Proyer i mean he had Duran, Leonard, Benitez and Hearns above him yet didn't move up in weight.
Re: Kostya Tszyu hall of fame induction
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mr140
I still don't get why KT never went to the WW division and why Proyer never did either find it weird. I mean both divisions were lacking talent and the division above them had all the names in it. I mean Kt fought when Dela Hoya, Forrest, Mosley, and Trinadad were just a weight above him. Same thing with Proyer i mean he had Duran, Leonard, Benitez and Hearns above him yet didn't move up in weight.
He was talking to Cory Spinks people before the Hatton fight, i believe he was riddled with injuries for the last 3 years of his career, he had shoulder surgery that kept him out of the ring for 18 months and for a boxer that is almost curtains, couple injury, inactivity and the age factor father time just caught up with him. I have no doubt he would've made the move to WW in 2003 if not for injury. Maybe he was just very comfortable at JWW in those years? He looked terrible at the Hatton fight weigh in, drawn and gaunt and missed the limit by a bee's dick. He should've been fighting at WW from 2003, but the shoulder injury prevented that happening.
Re: Kostya Tszyu hall of fame induction
Quote:
Originally Posted by
THE THIRD MAN
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mr140
I still don't get why KT never went to the WW division and why Proyer never did either find it weird. I mean both divisions were lacking talent and the division above them had all the names in it. I mean Kt fought when Dela Hoya, Forrest, Mosley, and Trinadad were just a weight above him. Same thing with Proyer i mean he had Duran, Leonard, Benitez and Hearns above him yet didn't move up in weight.
He was talking to Cory Spinks people before the Hatton fight, i believe he was riddled with injuries for the last 3 years of his career, he had shoulder surgery that kept him out of the ring for 18 months and for a boxer that is almost curtains, couple injury, inactivity and the age factor father time just caught up with him. I have no doubt he would've made the move to WW in 2003 if not for injury. Maybe he was just very comfortable at JWW in those years? He looked terrible at the Hatton fight weigh in, drawn and gaunt and missed the limit by a bee's dick. He should've been fighting at WW from 2003, but the shoulder injury prevented that happening.
I remember watching the weigh in for the hatton fight and thinking fuck Kostyas going to lose. Had never seen him look that drained before and he still missed weight.
Re: Kostya Tszyu hall of fame induction
In the Hatton fight you could still see his class, after losing the early rounds, once he found the distance he landed with the right hand and that would have halted Hatton in his tracks. When that did not materialise, Tszyu wained and had to concede victory to Ricky who was at his peak and inspired.
Re: Kostya Tszyu hall of fame induction
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
In the Hatton fight you could still see his class, after losing the early rounds, once he found the distance he landed with the right hand and that would have halted Hatton in his tracks. When that did not materialise, Tszyu wained and had to concede victory to Ricky who was at his peak and inspired.
I agree. He didn't actually have a bad fight, (look at Hatton's face after the fight) I think the round 9 low blow did him in. Pariss had no idea how to referee that fight, so many double standards. I don't believe Hatton was ever the same again after that fight either.
Re: Kostya Tszyu hall of fame induction
Dont think Oktte Urkal was quite the same after he fought Tszyu either. Game boy that one.
Re: Kostya Tszyu hall of fame induction
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Andre
Dont think Oktte Urkal was quite the same after he fought Tszyu either. Game boy that one.
I noticed that a lot of fighters who fought Tszyu were never the same again after. Gonzalez, Mitchell, Hatton and of course Zab were just never as good again.
Hatton had some wins, but he was sluggish in most of them before his next elite fight against Mayweather and then his debacle against Pacman.
Judah has been all over the place ever since, sure he won the Welterweight title (in two attempts against powderpuff Cory Spinks!) Then loses to Baldomir? He is 14-5 with one NC since 2001 and has lost to every elite fighter he has fought.
He ruined Gonzalez and Mitchell was gone after that KO in 2004.
People can be critical of Tszyu all they want, at the end of the day he unified a divison, was a world champion from 1995-2005 and that makes you a worthy Hall Of Famer.
Re: Kostya Tszyu hall of fame induction
Kostya is definitely HOF material. He had a tremendous amateur pedigree and I loved his style of fighting. Great timing and a bomb of a right hand that if it not detonate on the chin, destroyed them slowly. Quality fighter and man.
