Thankyou el kabong, very kind. Good post also.
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Thankyou el kabong, very kind. Good post also.
Dan rafael is a terrible boxing scribe, ridiculed worldwide.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
I agree with Rafael on things here and there and he does have a favorable view of Wladimir, but Wlad already fights pretty often usually 2 times a year and he's running out of opponents. Wlad has 13 successful title defenses (or there abouts) so far and to get 25 would only be difficult in terms of finding guys ready & willing to fight him. Rafael writes like if Wlad wanted to he could break that record tomorrow.
I see Mitchell getting KO'd if he moves up a level now. I just don't see him living with guys like Arreola, Chambers and Adamek. Klitschko would kill him!
I don't rate him as a writer. He does have his good points though, being a wlad fan is one of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
Povertkin needs to man up. It would seal a great resume and would probably be at least a top 3 win for wlad. Povetkin doesn't want to know though! Shame because its a natural fight to make just like lewis v byrd was in the early 00's.
Mitchell is a schooling waiting to happen....a tarvoris cloud/jeff lacy type fighter! Im a fan but he's not ever going to be great.Quote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyu
You know what is a scary thought? What if Wlad had gone straight to Manny after the Olympic win. I personally believe it took Manny around 4 years to get Wlad fighting as well as he is now and I know he still pushes him to improve and move in for the kill more. Well imagine he did take him under his wing in 96, he would have had regular sparring with Lennox Lewis and what's more what took him 4 years to teach a fully grown man might well have taken him half that thus leaving much more time as a youth to develop even further.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
It's all what's, if's and maybes now but it's worth thinking when you talk about how many defences Wlad could have made. I personally don't think he'll catch Louis now because he's not as active as he was a few years ago mainly due to injury, but had Steward taken him from the Olympics I think we could have had a 30+ defences man in the HW division.
Quote:
Originally Posted by THE PHILOSOPHERDan rafael is a terrible boxing scribe, ridiculed worldwide.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
And yet ESPN keeps him on. There must be a shortage of good boxing writers, I guess.
Seth Mitchell is rough around the edges and yes Wlad beats him easily, but the guy got a late start in boxing and given that he's done rather well for himself I must say. It is amazing how quickly the American heavyweight boxing scene deteriorated after Tyson, Holyfield, & Bowe....a quick & precipitous drop off in talent & skill, but one that was exacerbated by the end of the Cold War and that begs the question "If the Cold War was still going, who would be heavyweight champion and how good would they be?"
As for ESPN, they are going all MTV on us, they report more on speculation and gossip than actual stories. The main thing that irks me is how quickly announcers will jump all over boxing for bad fights, bad match ups, bad scoring/judging....they are very quick to say what is wrong in boxing while offering few if any solutions and they rarely if ever say that anything good is happening in the sport.
My picks for the best HW up-and-comers are Price, Dinu, Mitchell, Jennings, and Glazkov.
Pulev and Fury are also very good, but I think they've already reached contender status.
It also beg's the question 'what if the eastern europeans had always fought pro?' imagine the fighters (with the right management etc) we have missed out on! The americans would not have been so dominant...Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
-Aleksandr Miroshnichenko stopped lennox lewis as an amateur. Also beat riddick bowe up (flooring him twice!).
-Igor vygotsky twice defeated the great cuban teofilio stevenson. Also stopped tony tubbs and mitch green etc.
One of the best came in the form of a potential challenger to Joe Louis, who could use all he could get in al honesty!
That was legendary Soviet Korolev Nikolai Federovich, Born February 14th 1917 and died February 12th 1974. He was a 4 -time Absolute Soviet Champion (1936,1937,1944, 1945), a 9 time Champion of the USSR (1936-1939,1945-1949) and Champion of the 1937 Socialist Olympics in Antwerp (The Russian alternative to the boycotted 1936 games in Berlin hosted by Nazi Germany), but he never got to go pro to really prove his stuff settling for a 110-14-2 record as a Russian hero.
See? What if.....
Also...cubans like stevenson, savon etc....Damn the fighters we have missed taking on the americans!! Borders open (approximately in the year 2000) and Eastern-Europeans enter the arena.
Within a decade Americans lose all their titles to Eastern-Europeans.
We have already seen what has happened the first wave of fighters, wlad, vitali, povetkin, chagaev etc! Now we need a few more to follow in odlandier solis footsteps too...
Even the klitscho predecesors like B level alexander Zolkin, was robbed over and over again by American judges even tho he was clearly beating top ten fighters when only a novice in the pro's himself. And he still made the top 10 by 95. Oleg Maskeav, with only 4 pro fights was pushed into a match with Oliver McCall a 30+ fight vet! With the right management and momentum there is a talent pool to die for in the block...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUDB2ruGRAQ
didnt readQuote:
Originally Posted by THE PHILOSOPHERIt also beg's the question 'what if the eastern europeans had always fought pro?' imagine the fighters (with the right management etc) we have missed out on! The americans would not have been so dominant...Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
-Aleksandr Miroshnichenko stopped lennox lewis as an amateur. Also beat riddick bowe up (flooring him twice!).
-Igor vygotsky twice defeated the great cuban teofilio stevenson. Also stopped tony tubbs and mitch green etc.
One of the best came in the form of a potential challenger to Joe Louis, who could use all he could get in al honesty!
That was legendary Soviet Korolev Nikolai Federovich, Born February 14th 1917 and died February 12th 1974. He was a 4 -time Absolute Soviet Champion (1936,1937,1944, 1945), a 9 time Champion of the USSR (1936-1939,1945-1949) and Champion of the 1937 Socialist Olympics in Antwerp (The Russian alternative to the boycotted 1936 games in Berlin hosted by Nazi Germany), but he never got to go pro to really prove his stuff settling for a 110-14-2 record as a Russian hero.
See? What if.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Megadidnt readQuote:
Originally Posted by THE PHILOSOPHERIt also beg's the question 'what if the eastern europeans had always fought pro?' imagine the fighters (with the right management etc) we have missed out on! The americans would not have been so dominant...Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
-Aleksandr Miroshnichenko stopped lennox lewis as an amateur. Also beat riddick bowe up (flooring him twice!).
-Igor vygotsky twice defeated the great cuban teofilio stevenson. Also stopped tony tubbs and mitch green etc.
One of the best came in the form of a potential challenger to Joe Louis, who could use all he could get in al honesty!
That was legendary Soviet Korolev Nikolai Federovich, Born February 14th 1917 and died February 12th 1974. He was a 4 -time Absolute Soviet Champion (1936,1937,1944, 1945), a 9 time Champion of the USSR (1936-1939,1945-1949) and Champion of the 1937 Socialist Olympics in Antwerp (The Russian alternative to the boycotted 1936 games in Berlin hosted by Nazi Germany), but he never got to go pro to really prove his stuff settling for a 110-14-2 record as a Russian hero.
See? What if.....
Roughly translated: 'I am actually quite stupid!'
cool retort bro!Quote:
Originally Posted by THE PHILOSOPHERQuote:
Originally Posted by Megadidnt readQuote:
Originally Posted by THE PHILOSOPHERIt also beg's the question 'what if the eastern europeans had always fought pro?' imagine the fighters (with the right management etc) we have missed out on! The americans would not have been so dominant...Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
-Aleksandr Miroshnichenko stopped lennox lewis as an amateur. Also beat riddick bowe up (flooring him twice!).
-Igor vygotsky twice defeated the great cuban teofilio stevenson. Also stopped tony tubbs and mitch green etc.
One of the best came in the form of a potential challenger to Joe Louis, who could use all he could get in al honesty!
That was legendary Soviet Korolev Nikolai Federovich, Born February 14th 1917 and died February 12th 1974. He was a 4 -time Absolute Soviet Champion (1936,1937,1944, 1945), a 9 time Champion of the USSR (1936-1939,1945-1949) and Champion of the 1937 Socialist Olympics in Antwerp (The Russian alternative to the boycotted 1936 games in Berlin hosted by Nazi Germany), but he never got to go pro to really prove his stuff settling for a 110-14-2 record as a Russian hero.
See? What if.....
Roughly translated: 'I am actually quite stupid!'
Having great amateurs doesn't translate into having great pros because there is a difference in styles, but also the age differences aren't so drastic. Americans turn pro younger, get more experience as pros so you bring up good names like Savon and Stevenson and they were great amateurs, but if they fought pros their own age I'm not so certain they would have been that great. Look at Odlanier Solis, and look at the failed fighters from the former Soviet states....they put out some duds as well.
George Foreman had been boxing for only 1 year when he won Gold in 1968 and he hammered the absolute dog crap out of Ionas Chepulis. So it wouldn't be all sunshine and lollipops for the Commie's in the Pro ranks.
Foreman won gold over a 31 year old! That's ancient in amateur terms! And frazier only narrowly defeated a 30 yr old amateur too...Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
Also the soviets only started competing in the games in the mid 50's.
My point exactly because Foreman & Frazier were just kids at the time and they were fighting full grown men.Quote:
Originally Posted by THE PHILOSOPHERForeman won gold over a 31 year old! That's ancient in amateur terms! And frazier only narrowly defeated a 30 yr old amateur too...Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
Also the soviets only started competing in the games in the mid 50's.
The amateurs are a young man's game. What a shame these men could not turn pro rather than fighting youngsters well into there 30's...Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongMy point exactly because Foreman & Frazier were just kids at the time and they were fighting full grown men.Quote:
Originally Posted by THE PHILOSOPHERForeman won gold over a 31 year old! That's ancient in amateur terms! And frazier only narrowly defeated a 30 yr old amateur too...Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
Also the soviets only started competing in the games in the mid 50's.
Times have changed now though.
Here's Andy Ruiz Jr's last fight. Like I said he's one of those quick fisted chubby guys :D
What do you guys think?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlEV2bpLe98
I think "chubby" is a gross understatement.
:-X
Bump.
Olympians fighting this week in London.
91+kg in no order
Ivan Dychko - 21 yr old from Kazakhstan. Stands 6'9" tall. Looks kinda like a young Vitali with a shaved head. Here's a picture of him http://88.85.4.2/images/photos/002574.jpg
Ivan Dychko - Boxing Prospects
Magomedrasul Majidov - Fights for Azerbaijan. Won Gold at the 2011 World Amateur Championships. Named the best boxer of 2011 beating Savon, Dychko & Joshua.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxevrwR1Y7s
Magomed Omarov - 20 yr old power puncher from Russia...won Gold at the 2011 European Amateur Championships in Turkey.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mF4muLeUO4g
Anthony Joshua - 6'6" Brit won Silver at the World Amateur Championships losing a one point decision to the home fighter Majidov/Medzhidov. Defeated 2008 Olympic Gold Medalist Roberto Cammarelle at the same tournament.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pl6RNONdlk4
Here's the 2012 Olympic bracket for the Super Heavies
http://www.aiba-london2012.com/image...ts/C75MW92.jpg
Savon-Joshua is the can't miss fight of the first round. Whoever wins that will face 2008 Olympic Silver medalist Zhang Zhilei next assuming he wins. I personally can't wait to see Medzhidov-Omarov in the second round...that's gonna be explosive :cool:
Good stuff tiger fan...
*There was this kid,jerimiah Graziano... anyone ever heard of him or know what happened to him?
Medzhidov dominated and stopped Mwamba (Congo) in the second round.
Omarov (Russia) vs Breazeale (USA) is up next.
Omarov defeated Breazeale 19-8.
Breazeale suffered a couple of standing 8's in the fight.
Did anybody see the other two fights? How did Cammarelle look?
Dychko (Kazakhstan) looked very impressive beating Pfeifer (Germany) on points 14-4.
Ivan not only looks like Vitali but fights like him with the low guard + the upper body movement. The only difference is Ivan is very light on his feet. At 6'9" he moves like a lightweight :o
Definitely a dark horse to win Gold.
2008 Silver Medalist Zhang Zhilei is up next then Joshua-Savon :cool:
Cammarelle looked quite good but the Ecuadorian just stood in front of him looking for one big shot throughout. He did land one towards the end that made Cammarelle's legs sag a bit but by that point he'd already had a few standing counts and was well behind.Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerFan
Zhilei (China) stops Linde (Australia) in the 2nd.
I remember the Duva's were interested in signing Zhang to a pro contract. Maybe he'll go pro after these games.
Joshua (Great Britain) beat Savon (Cuba) on points 17-16.
Home cooking. I thought Savon should have won.
I'm inclined to agree with you, especially with the third round which I thought Savon dominated by four or five points.Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerFan
Can't see it myself. It was close, but home cooking is a bit wide of the mark IMO. Savon was light on his feet but flattered to deceive, he was not that difficult to hit and Joshua caught him time and again. Savon may have deserved a wider points margin in the third but the same could be claimed for Joshua in the first two rounds.Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerFan
Plus a lot of Savons shots were partially blocked. I think it was a fair decision! Close but Joshua taking it.Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenbeanzCan't see it myself. It was close, but home cooking is a bit wide of the mark IMO. Savon was light on his feet but flattered to deceive, he was not that difficult to hit and Joshua caught him time and again. Savon may have deserved a wider points margin in the third but the same could be claimed for Joshua in the first two rounds.Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerFan
Im a brit and savon was jobbed last night! Joshua knew it too....
Luck escape.
Medzhidov defeated Omarov 17-14 in a slugfest.
Omarov seemed to buzz Medzhidov a few times...Medzhidov's better technique & conditioning won him the fight IMO.
http://www.london2012.com/boxing/eve...=3012012080622
Cammarelle vs Arjaoui is on now.
Cammarelle beats Arjaoui 12-11
Roberto is gonna have to fight better than that to beat Medzhidov.
http://www.london2012.com/boxing/eve...=3022012080623
Dychko vs Kean is up next