He fought Veit in Germany...:rolleyes:;DQuote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
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He fought Veit in Germany...:rolleyes:;DQuote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
Dariuz MichalcZewski was a light heavy who Roy Jones avoided like the plague;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulk
Sven Ottke was ripping people off left right and centre including terrible officiating against Reid.
Antwun Echols was a middleweight journeyman who got beaten by Mundine;D
Beyer had been smashed up by Glenn Catley! He also got battered by Kessler who Calzaghe beat easy anyway.:cool:
Danny Green was a nobody who got beat by Beyer and Mundine;D
Mundine in his first title shot got knocked out cold by the lightest punching supermiddle champ ever;D
Calzaghe getting shit for not having a few more overmatched guys on his resume.
we're also getting bored with Wlad beating up overmatched guys.
Mental ;D
Galzaghe was a great fighter at super middle. He was champion for a long time and at one point through injury was very poor and lucky to get the decision against Reid. However at the end of his career where his hands were brittle he beat 2 undefeated young fighters and 2 old great fighters which was a nice way to retire.
You should be an attorney or a politician ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by rossDariuz MichalcZewski was a light heavy who Roy Jones avoided like the plague;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulk
Sven Ottke was ripping people off left right and centre including terrible officiating against Reid.
Antwun Echols was a middleweight journeyman who got beaten by Mundine;D
Beyer had been smashed up by Glenn Catley! He also got battered by Kessler who Calzaghe beat easy anyway.:cool:
Danny Green was a nobody who got beat by Beyer and Mundine;D
Mundine in his first title shot got knocked out cold by the lightest punching supermiddle champ ever;D
Doh! here we goQuote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by GreenbeanzTwo fights that you will give him credit for. That is not quite taking the middle ground. Then you again show your double standards by trying to bait anybody who dare be reasonable and can be rational about Calzaghe's career. While we are on the subject of twos try, troll and hater.;-)Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
Ouch, beanz..... that hurt.
I give Calzaghe credit for some things. I just don't cherish the ground he walks on. And I explain what I don't like about him. How's that being a "hater"?
Your pluses
His Record, something you can't dispute anyway.
Then you so begrudgingly acknowledge a measly TWO fights, that you then have to qualify the fact by saying they shouldn't be held against him! as though every other fight he won was against a bum, a negative mark to be remembered when appraising him:-\
He was busy. Talk about damning with faint praise:rolleyes: and even then you have to add your
unqualified opinion that "His quality of punches wasn't the best"
and that is your measured opinion of exactly how much credit you are going to afford him?
You are entitled to your opinion, deluded though it is, but you can not pretend that you are the one being rational and anyone disputing your version of events is worshipping Calzaghe or looking to have him anointed. If you were interested in disputing facts you would have responded to @THE PHILOSOPHER , whose forensic breakdown completely destroys any semblance of rationality in your ranting.
Come in here VD :biteit:
Come in here Fenster :biteit:
Come in here I am not a Troll:bashtroll4cx4:Honestly
;D
There have been some boxers whose careers have been exaggerated and only sustained by careful matchmaking that inflates any real ability they may have possessed. Yet I can not seriously in good conscience give even the lamest of those credit for just two fights.
That would not constitute debate,it would simply be hate.:bounce:
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenbeanzDoh! here we goQuote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by GreenbeanzTwo fights that you will give him credit for. That is not quite taking the middle ground. Then you again show your double standards by trying to bait anybody who dare be reasonable and can be rational about Calzaghe's career. While we are on the subject of twos try, troll and hater.;-)Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
Ouch, beanz..... that hurt.
I give Calzaghe credit for some things. I just don't cherish the ground he walks on. And I explain what I don't like about him. How's that being a "hater"?
Your pluses
His Record, something you can't dispute anyway.
Then you so begrudgingly acknowledge a measly TWO fights, that you then have to qualify the fact by saying they shouldn't be held against him! as though every other fight he won was against a bum, a negative mark to be remembered when appraising him:-\
He was busy. Talk about damning with faint praise:rolleyes: and even then you have to add your
unqualified opinion that "His quality of punches wasn't the best"
and that is your measured opinion of exactly how much credit you are going to afford him?
You are entitled to your opinion, deluded though it is, but you can not pretend that you are the one being rational and anyone disputing your version of events is worshipping Calzaghe or looking to have him anointed. If you were interested in disputing facts you would have responded to @THE PHILOSOPHER , whose forensic breakdown completely destroys any semblance of rationality in your ranting.
Come in here VD :biteit:
Come in here Fenster :biteit:
Come in here I am not a Troll:bashtroll4cx4:Honestly
;D
There have been some boxers whose careers have been exaggerated and only sustained by careful matchmaking that inflates any real ability they may have possessed. Yet I can not seriously in good conscience give even the lamest of those credit for just two fights.
That would not constitute debate,it would simply be hate.:bounce:
Yeah, go ahead.... call VD. Now there's a Calzaghe lover.
:rolleyes:
Like I said... there's no middle ground with Calzaghe. You either bow at his golden statue, or you're a hater. Ok... I'll choose the latter. You want to think of him as the greatest thing in civilization since the invention of the toilet? Go ahead. I personally don't subscribe to the theory that just because you retire undefeated..... that alone qualifies you for mega-stardom. All you have to do is look at the career of JCC Jr., to see what I mean. Hell... I got someone on another thread that is poking holes in Ricardo "Finito" Lopez's career (another undefeated fighter, BTW), based on quality of opponents.
Also, I'm far from the being the only one who fails to bow to the golden statue. There's even some of your own countrymen that are not convinced either. But you don't attack any of them. No. Following in the steps of the other dope... you just take exception to MY remarks.
And do you carry on your argument by yourself? No. Like the little bullied kid..... you go get your little friends so they can come and agree with you. What's next? Threatening to hold your breath till you turn blue? Give me a fucking break.
But I know what's troubling you. You don't get too many world-class champions where you come from. So when you have a Joe Calzaghe, you hold on for dear life...... and woe to those who dare defile the image of the "great one". I can sort of understand, although I don't have that same problem. I can only imagine how hard it must be for you.
;)
When have I ever called him the greatest, called in anyone to support me or resorted to cheap national stereotyping? Ha! It is perfectly possible to take the middle ground on Calzaghe, which is what I and many other boxing fans do, but you just interpret that as worship. You are very condescending and carry your own prejudice around quite blatantly whilst ridiculing the same thing when you perceive it in others. Do not assume anything about me or project your prejudice as an inverted caricature onto me or others who simply do not share your now admitted hate for a very good boxer.
Whereas you often resort to childish insults and seem to equate not wishing to waste time demeaning opponents and dismissing someones career as fanboydom, it really isn't. How many years have you wasted banging this particular drum?
I feel Tito, is missing the point Beanz, I can not recall any one say he was the greatest, I myself haveQuote:
Originally Posted by Greenbeanz
said he was a great fighter with a few other's.
There will be a few other's, I will add to my list of great fighters may I suggest, a de bait in the New bridge community centre, with Tito as the main speaker I have a feeling it would be a good night.:drinker: :argue: ;D
Sven Ottke - Boxer
Just chucking it out there... ;)
That shit champion was rated at one time higher than Joe, which tells it own sad story of how far Joe not doing well, until Brewer, Lacy Kessler etcQuote:
Originally Posted by AdamGB
The fact that this dicussion has spread over so many pages explains why there is so many varied views on joes career.
Joe was one of the greats and deserves to be up there..but he wouldnt beat a prime roy jones.lol
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenbeanz
Uh... years? Probably a few weeks, but that's about it. Really Beanz.... you're taking it way more harshly than you should. Just as you're perfectly within your rights to rank Calzaghe as high as you want...... I feel I should be perfectly within MY rights to express those things I didn't like about him as a fighter. Everybody throws the word "hate" around here a lot. Why should I hate Calzaghe? He's never done anything to me personally. That is just plain ludicrous. But yeah... I'm pretty outspoken about my opinions. That seems to piss off a few people around here. Especially when it's about a beloved fighter. Not trying to piss people off, just be honest about my opinions.
Fighters I can't stand are fighters like Larry Holmes (racist), Margarito (cheater), James Toney (a number of reasons). I wouldn't put Calzaghe in that group. But when I'm attacked on my personal views... I do lash out... and then it all gets confused with "hate".
Again, you conveniently chose not to address my point about me not being the only person to criticize Calzaghe, a list that even extends to some of your own countrymen. But yet you single me out, as does your other cohort, and attack only my views. Why is that? Is it my way of saying it? Just wondering......
I have seen a lot of the fights joe has fought and I'll say this maybe if he fought Roy and b hop in there prime he would get more respect he kinda did take on these guys on the down side of there career. On top of that most people in the us dont even know who he is when I tell people there's and undefeated boxer that fought during the Roy jones b hop era that retired undefeated the first thing they say is no way, where did he come from why haven't I heard of him. Next thing I heard he must have been fighting bums. Lol
Give me a break...hopkins turned down an offer in the early 00's to fight joe, fact!Quote:
Originally Posted by Moneyteamkeys
There is only 2 years age difference between joe and roy too, calzaghe was 37 when they fought and had suffered from severe hands problems for years! The fact that he humiliated, carried and schooled jones at that point in there respective careers is very telling, i mean just when would jones have beaten a slick southpaw with a great chin and sick workrate like calzaghe? when he was being humiliated by glenn johnson? when he was taking the roids? Calzaghe vs jones (both at there best) would be very interesting.
Unfortunately we saw it at the end of there careers. Funny how no one gives lenny lewis shit for fighting a shot tyson who's best years were a decade (at least) before!
Difference here was it was at jones weight not calzaghes! Ppl forget that jones went onto give one of his best later career performances post calzaghe against a shot lacy (jermaine taylor couldn't keep lacy off him!!) and his brutal stoppage of sheika was impressive too considering sheika pushed top 10 rated diaconu all the way! He also stole 5 rounds off of lineal champ hopkins too. Tyson was humiliated by williams and mcbride. Let's also note it was in jones country too, not calzaghes!
Otke lost to brewer, mitchell and reid in my eyes!Quote:
Originally Posted by adamgb
Otke was not on joe's level. He was the most 'beaten unbeaten fighter' ever! Thats why europeans have a bad name because of joke ass sven otke.
Joe was probably on the 'downside' as far back as the Evans fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moneyteamkeys
yap.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimanuel BoogustusJoe was probably on the 'downside' as far back as the Evans fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moneyteamkeys
So y'all believe if he fought them Back in 94 back when James tony was great he would have ran thru all of em?
Prime Joe beats almost anyone at super middle. Maybe not a prime RJJ, but then again who could beat a prime RJJ? If Roy had retired after beating Ruiz (even though he fought at about 193 lbs for a HW fight) then he would be near the top of the all time p4p list.
I hear u on that the problem with any sports man is there drive and love for there sport and that keeps them wanting to go on even when they know that it's time to retire if pacman wasn't fighting mayweather would have been goneQuote:
Originally Posted by Luckystu72
Did any one see ringside, Froch and Calzaghe over12 round's he said he would lose, he would have to
KO him,to win, I give Froch cedit for being honest, he no's he could be out boxed by Joe, as Ko Joe
not much chance of that. When Froch is long gone, remember we have DeGale and Groves,so the
SM are looking a pretty strong division in this country.
I thought Calzaghe got a bit defensive when Nelson read an email about Froch fighting everyone and never ducking anyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dia bando
I think Froch is very mischievous with this Calzaghe stuff now - bascially he says Joe had no chance of stopping him but would've probably nicked a points victory if he didn't KO him. He makes them level.
Calzaghe wins PTS. FRoch wins KO.
The thing is Froch, can't deal with smart boxer's and Joe is a smart boxer, all this talk about him ko Joe that's a load of crap.What about Joe giving him a one side drubbing,just like he gave Lacy FrochQuote:
Originally Posted by FensterI thought Calzaghe got a bit defensive when Nelson read an email about Froch fighting everyone and never ducking anyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dia bando
I think Froch is very mischievous with this Calzaghe stuff now - bascially he says Joe had no chance of stopping him but would've probably nicked a points victory if he didn't KO him. He makes them level.
Calzaghe wins PTS. FRoch wins KO.
is a good fighter. Were Joe will be in the Hall of Fame as a modern great, Froch will never achieve
that feat.Not many fighters retire undefeated also a two weight World Champion, it's something to Bragg about.I have followed many fighters through the years, and Calzaghe is up there with the very best,It's all about levels it may upset people, but Froch is a few levels below Calzaghe, nothing I have seen or heard will change my opinion.;)
Agreed Joe is a class above Froch, Joe would beat Andre Ward who left Froch for dust. Different level.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dia bandoThe thing is Froch, can't deal with smart boxer's and Joe is a smart boxer, all this talk about him ko Joe that's a load of crap.What about Joe giving him a one side drubbing,just like he gave Lacy FrochQuote:
Originally Posted by FensterI thought Calzaghe got a bit defensive when Nelson read an email about Froch fighting everyone and never ducking anyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dia bando
I think Froch is very mischievous with this Calzaghe stuff now - bascially he says Joe had no chance of stopping him but would've probably nicked a points victory if he didn't KO him. He makes them level.
Calzaghe wins PTS. FRoch wins KO.
is a good fighter. Were Joe will be in the Hall of Fame as a modern great, Froch will never achieve
that feat.Not many fighters retire undefeated also a two weight World Champion, it's something to Bragg about.I have followed many fighters through the years, and Calzaghe is up there with the very best,It's all about levels it may upset people, but Froch is a few levels below Calzaghe, nothing I have seen or heard will change my opinion.;)
I was giving Froch's opinion not my own. Just like nothing will change your mind that Calzaghe would beat Froch, i'm sure nothing would change his mind that he would have sparked Cazlaghe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dia bandoThe thing is Froch, can't deal with smart boxer's and Joe is a smart boxer, all this talk about him ko Joe that's a load of crap.What about Joe giving him a one side drubbing,just like he gave Lacy FrochQuote:
Originally Posted by FensterI thought Calzaghe got a bit defensive when Nelson read an email about Froch fighting everyone and never ducking anyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dia bando
I think Froch is very mischievous with this Calzaghe stuff now - bascially he says Joe had no chance of stopping him but would've probably nicked a points victory if he didn't KO him. He makes them level.
Calzaghe wins PTS. FRoch wins KO.
is a good fighter. Were Joe will be in the Hall of Fame as a modern great, Froch will never achieve
that feat.Not many fighters retire undefeated also a two weight World Champion, it's something to Bragg about.I have followed many fighters through the years, and Calzaghe is up there with the very best,It's all about levels it may upset people, but Froch is a few levels below Calzaghe, nothing I have seen or heard will change my opinion.;)
Froch I will ko him, the only one he's Ko in resent time's is Bute, and let's face facts and before that
Taylor. Carl no's he had little chance, of koing Calzaghe top level opponents don't fall down so Froch
in reality is not the big puncher he thinks he is.
Regardless what he thinks, he lost to Ward and a over the hill Kessler, I like Froch but in levels he's
a Steve Collins.
I have always been a realist,and in reality Froch is a good fighter but he can be out boxed, he has been
in the past and he could be in the future.:)
Joe Calzaghe is one of the most underrated fighters of recent decades.
People say he fought old men, but he defeated prime Kessler and had wins over prime Reid, Lacy, Bika, Mitchell, and Sheika (who was coming off a win over Glen Johnson).
For some reason, the same people who bash Calzaghe don't seem to mind that Jones and Hopkins fought a lot of clubfighters during their title runs.
Unlike Hopkins and Ward, Joe never needed to resort to illegal tactics such as deliberate headbutts. The haters say he refused to leave home, but many of his fights were not in Wales. Joe fought in Germany, Denmark, Scotland, England, and twice in the USA. During that time, Bernard Hopkins never once left the US. Joe eventually had to cross the ocean to fight him (in front of smaller crowd than there would have been in Wales).
Props to Joe Calzaghe for a great career. :thumb: