Muhammad Ali to Lead the parade at Olympic openings

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Originally Posted by imp

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Originally Posted by THE PHILOSOPHER

The N word is a rife on the vast majority of mainstream music CD's eminating from the united states!

My parents were not given any opportunities, they worked hard and forced open doors that were slamed in there faces! They now run there own successful business yet both grew up on council estates! Try being working class in england and then tell me you dont have to struggle to really make it!

Lets not pretend that ali was some unjustly treated slave, he was raised happily and healthily in a quaint town and nurtured by numerous white men like i.e angelo dundee and the community police officer that introduced him to boxing was black! Hardly an ill treated child lacking black role models was he?

I don't mean to be mean spirited but i don't buy the mass media hyperbole that surrounds ali, he's far from the greatest sportsman ever, he's not even the greatest sportsman in his sport or his division! Most ppl, don't even know who boxers charley burley, teofilio stevenson, laszlo papp or harry greb even are! Most 'famous' sportsman ever yes but certainly not the greatest in the sense that i measure them by. I wish him well though and he is a legend no doubt.

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Who is this stupid arsehole troll?

Tell us who the greatest sportsman is then?

Ali was not only the greatest sportsman but one of the greatest men to walk the earth..in regards to the ali frazier situation those comments were used to sell the fight and ali and frazier were friends behind the scene.
Sticks and stones fella.

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To be fair, he was a complete dick. What is it beyond the fighting that you find so commendable? One of the greatest men to have walk ed the earth? Do you know nothing of the mans personal history?Just odd.

I've been one of Ali's biggest critics over the years, but I can't say I wasn't entertained by his boxing and personality for the better part of 20 years. As for Ali being a great man, not really, a famous/infamous figure who became known and recognized all over the world, but other then having a superb career as a boxer/entertainer what did Ali accomplish which would qualify him as a "great man"?

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Originally Posted by imp

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Originally Posted by THE PHILOSOPHER

The N word is a rife on the vast majority of mainstream music CD's eminating from the united states!

My parents were not given any opportunities, they worked hard and forced open doors that were slamed in there faces! They now run there own successful business yet both grew up on council estates! Try being working class in england and then tell me you dont have to struggle to really make it!

Lets not pretend that ali was some unjustly treated slave, he was raised happily and healthily in a quaint town and nurtured by numerous white men like i.e angelo dundee and the community police officer that introduced him to boxing was black! Hardly an ill treated child lacking black role models was he?

I don't mean to be mean spirited but i don't buy the mass media hyperbole that surrounds ali, he's far from the greatest sportsman ever, he's not even the greatest sportsman in his sport or his division! Most ppl, don't even know who boxers charley burley, teofilio stevenson, laszlo papp or harry greb even are! Most 'famous' sportsman ever yes but certainly not the greatest in the sense that i measure them by. I wish him well though and he is a legend no doubt.

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Tell us who the greatest sportsman is then?

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You asked ;)

John Michael Landy

Landy is remembered for his performance in the 1500 metres final at the 1956 Australian National Championships prior to the Melbourne Olympic Games. In the race, Landy stopped and doubled back to check on fellow runner Ron Clarke after another runner clipped Clarke's heel, causing him to fall early in the third lap of the race. Clarke, the then-junior 1500 metre world champion, who had been leading the race, got back to his feet and started running again; Landy followed. Incredibly, in the final two laps Landy made up a large deficit to win the race, something considered one of the greatest moments in Australian sporting history. Said the National Centre for History and Education in Australia, "It was a spontaneous gesture of sportsmanship and it has never been forgotten.

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Originally Posted by Andre

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Originally Posted by imp

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Originally Posted by THE PHILOSOPHER

The N word is a rife on the vast majority of mainstream music CD's eminating from the united states!

My parents were not given any opportunities, they worked hard and forced open doors that were slamed in there faces! They now run there own successful business yet both grew up on council estates! Try being working class in england and then tell me you dont have to struggle to really make it!

Lets not pretend that ali was some unjustly treated slave, he was raised happily and healthily in a quaint town and nurtured by numerous white men like i.e angelo dundee and the community police officer that introduced him to boxing was black! Hardly an ill treated child lacking black role models was he?

I don't mean to be mean spirited but i don't buy the mass media hyperbole that surrounds ali, he's far from the greatest sportsman ever, he's not even the greatest sportsman in his sport or his division! Most ppl, don't even know who boxers charley burley, teofilio stevenson, laszlo papp or harry greb even are! Most 'famous' sportsman ever yes but certainly not the greatest in the sense that i measure them by. I wish him well though and he is a legend no doubt.

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Tell us who the greatest sportsman is then?

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You asked ;)

John Michael Landy

Landy is remembered for his performance in the 1500 metres final at the 1956 Australian National Championships prior to the Melbourne Olympic Games. In the race, Landy stopped and doubled back to check on fellow runner Ron Clarke after another runner clipped Clarke's heel, causing him to fall early in the third lap of the race. Clarke, the then-junior 1500 metre world champion, who had been leading the race, got back to his feet and started running again; Landy followed. Incredibly, in the final two laps Landy made up a large deficit to win the race, something considered one of the greatest moments in Australian sporting history. Said the National Centre for History and Education in Australia, "It was a spontaneous gesture of sportsmanship and it has never been forgotten.

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Landy is your choice and thats your opinion. Not mine and many others.
Its the combination of things that makes ali great. I dont believe in allah or the muslim faith but that helped him to stand up for a certain race where others before him couldnt or were too scared too.

I like to reverse the tables on every issue i look at, if black people refused to let white people compete in boxing for whatever reason and then suddenly you have a man called jack johnson that is finally allowed in and dominates all blacks with ease
But then the blacks invent laws to ruin his life and career just because his white.
Then steps in a subservant white man named joe louis and to some degree ray robinson who cant really be themselves as history does not want another jack johnson.
Finally a young white heavyweight called clay stands up for what is right and wont conform to anyones rule as he a human being first and a colour second.
Everything comes into play with ali not just being a great heavyweight.

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Originally Posted by Greenbeanz

@TitoFan you and @Althugz have become a couple of paranoid inverted stalkers. You both seem convinced that I go out of my way to attack you which really is not the case. I am a huge Joe Frazier fan as anybody who has read my posts on here knows. That was why I felt inclined to answer your post. I reserve the right to disagree with anybody on here, it is a forum for debate, not a place to come and have smoke blown up your arse. It doesn't mean I have an agenda against people who do not share the same viewpoint. It is also quite ironic that you should be jumping up and down having a hissy fit, because I pointed out that Frazier had good reason to feel slighted by Ali's constant cruel jibes about him being ignorant and a gorilla. I never once berated your hero and yet you then have to resort to the language of the playground, with your preening side kick chipping in with the hilarious troll comment. The pair of you like to dish it out but can't take any attempt at reasoning like men, you resort to calling people, fuckster,troll,being in a wanking circle, living in Disneyland, being prepubescent, the list goes on. I am sorry if you take everything so personally but nobody else can grow up for you. I have never resorted to using the ignore button or giving someone negative rep, but you whine more than my grandson and he isn't even one yet. Move on the pair of you, I've probably pissed off loads of people on here, it isn't personal. I speak my mind because life is too short to be piddling about and certainly too short to carry a grudge against someone on a forum............














Except maybe @Kev :-)

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I can't be bothered to respond to all that shit. So I'll just make two comments:

1. You don't sound old enough to be a grandfather. When they were handing out maturity, you were standing in another line.
2. Ple-e-e-e-e-a-a-a-se use the "ignore" button. Please. That way, you don't have to read my posts. You can join rocco, who you're starting to resemble. Personally, I prefer not to use it.

Have a nice day.

:cool:

Speaking as the neighbour of a man devastated by Parkinsons disease, I find it unthinkable that a decent human being could feel anything but empathy for someone whose body and mind has betrayed them in such a complete way. When my neighbour Tony pushed his alarm button and his wife was at work I would get a phone call informing me he had pushed it. I would have to go in with a key and see if he had fallen and many times lift him off the floor or the toilet because he simply could not do it himself. What was even more apparent was his difficulty in communicating any wishes after Parkinson's had left him locked in a shell.

That does not mean Ali should be worshipped or his life made out to be something that it wasn't. He had great wit and had the bravery to stand by his convictions but like any man was also beset by flaws. After Muhammed refused to fight in the Vietnam war, Joe Frazier whilst holding different political views than Ali, petitioned the president himself to allow Ali to have his fight license re-instated. Joe refused to fight in the elimination tournament to replace Ali. What did Ali the supposed greatest sportsman of all time do to show his gratitude?

Accused Joe of being a white champion with Black skin, an Uncle Tom and then of being ignorant and a Gorilla. Years later Ali, infact 11 years ago Ali finally apologized to the New York Times and Joe's response was

"He didn't apologize to me -- he apologized to the paper I'm still waiting for him to say it to me."

So what was Ali's witty retort this time

"If you see Frazier, you tell him he's still a gorilla."

He also denigrated Joe Louis, Jackie Robinson, and Thurgood Marshall, he said a lot of stupid things calling for the lynching of interracial couples, bemoaning the lack of an American apartheid, and saying

"No intelligent black man or black woman in his or her right black mind wants white boys and white girls coming to their homes to marry their black sons and daughters."

Does that sound like a role model to you? What a guy? We all say stupid stuff, particularly when we are young but Ali made a habit of it, even admitted that he would say it just to sell tickets, because that's how little respect for the paying public he had.

You can be outrageous without being spiteful. The nation of Islam of which he was part ( not to be confused with Islam) preached hatred and racism none of the attributes that Ali is credited for. He praised dictators and is seen by many as deserting Malcolm X before his assassination.Unity and peace, you must be joking.

All of the positive messages eschewed by the foundation set up in his name have happened after he could no longer express himself and the image of him as an ambassador for peace is a media construct.

For many it will seem like Blasphemy but the facts are all out there and easy to find, even exhaustively researched pro Ali books like Thomas Hauser's biography can not be read with an open mind without seeing a huge gulf between peoples idea of Ali and the real man. He was a great entertainer and remains a polarizing character who history will not forget, but that does not mean he was a greater man than many other boxers or entertainers. I will not patronize him by thinking he is great because he struggles on despite his disability, that is not what disabled people want. There is no arguing for me that will prove he was not a great. I can not even argue that his trilogy of fights with Smokin Joe Frazier, culminating in the brutal hot hell of Manilla, do not represent the greatest televised fight series ever screened, but as a man and boxer, for me,he is certainly not the greatest.

I would cry seeing Ali in the state he is in but he has had a great life. Forget you all that hate him. The man is a legend.

You make good points greenbeanz but times and situations were pretty messed up back then and this is far from a perfect world.

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Originally Posted by Greenbeanz

@Althugz and @TitoFan you are both going way off subject here and are sounding pretty desperate with your silly troll accusations. Again you bring up Calzaghe and project a fanboy persona onto me that most other posters are well aware exists only in your two tiny minds. If you can't be men and discuss the subject in hand like a grown up then maybe you should both take a deep breath and STFU.

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That's unfair Beanz, I have never once called you a JC fanboy. Although you were my very own, personal fanboy who followed me around like a lost little girl until I stopped giving you the attention you so rarely deserved.
I'm slightly jealous Tito has peaked your interest now :( would it help if I sent you a signed pair of my "micro-shorts" that you love so much?

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Originally Posted by Master

I would cry seeing Ali in the state he is in but he has had a great life. Forget you all that hate him. The man is a legend.

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Agreed

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Originally Posted by imp

You make good points greenbeanz but times and situations were pretty messed up back then and this is far from a perfect world.

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Most people assess the Ali of old as though he lived in 2012. That is a problem. It's easy to make a judgement about him in this day and age without understanding fully what it was like as a black man to live in that era. Imp made some excellent points..so did...gulp..Greenbeanz.

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Originally Posted by imp

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Originally Posted by Andre

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Originally Posted by imp

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Originally Posted by THE PHILOSOPHER

The N word is a rife on the vast majority of mainstream music CD's eminating from the united states!

My parents were not given any opportunities, they worked hard and forced open doors that were slamed in there faces! They now run there own successful business yet both grew up on council estates! Try being working class in england and then tell me you dont have to struggle to really make it!

Lets not pretend that ali was some unjustly treated slave, he was raised happily and healthily in a quaint town and nurtured by numerous white men like i.e angelo dundee and the community police officer that introduced him to boxing was black! Hardly an ill treated child lacking black role models was he?

I don't mean to be mean spirited but i don't buy the mass media hyperbole that surrounds ali, he's far from the greatest sportsman ever, he's not even the greatest sportsman in his sport or his division! Most ppl, don't even know who boxers charley burley, teofilio stevenson, laszlo papp or harry greb even are! Most 'famous' sportsman ever yes but certainly not the greatest in the sense that i measure them by. I wish him well though and he is a legend no doubt.

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Tell us who the greatest sportsman is then?

---

You asked ;)

John Michael Landy

Landy is remembered for his performance in the 1500 metres final at the 1956 Australian National Championships prior to the Melbourne Olympic Games. In the race, Landy stopped and doubled back to check on fellow runner Ron Clarke after another runner clipped Clarke's heel, causing him to fall early in the third lap of the race. Clarke, the then-junior 1500 metre world champion, who had been leading the race, got back to his feet and started running again; Landy followed. Incredibly, in the final two laps Landy made up a large deficit to win the race, something considered one of the greatest moments in Australian sporting history. Said the National Centre for History and Education in Australia, "It was a spontaneous gesture of sportsmanship and it has never been forgotten.

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Landy is your choice and thats your opinion. Not mine and many others.
Its the combination of things that makes ali great. I dont believe in allah or the muslim faith but that helped him to stand up for a certain race where others before him couldnt or were too scared too.

I like to reverse the tables on every issue i look at, if black people refused to let white people compete in boxing for whatever reason and then suddenly you have a man called jack johnson that is finally allowed in and dominates all blacks with ease
But then the blacks invent laws to ruin his life and career just because his white.
Then steps in a subservant white man named joe louis and to some degree ray robinson who cant really be themselves as history does not want another jack johnson.
Finally a young white heavyweight called clay stands up for what is right and wont conform to anyones rule as he a human being first and a colour second.
Everything comes into play with ali not just being a great heavyweight.

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True Sportsmanship is what I was relaying John Landy to more than achievements.

As the story said, its an amazing achievemnt in the face of returning and going backwards to recover his opponent. Simply was the most amazing feat to then go on and win.

Its good to reverse things like you have, it gives you the best perspective of things.
Same as many whites back then feeling so vilified in saying they dont want to share space with blacks and being against intermarriage. Ali was simply turning the tide on them and using his fame to do it publicly. 'Touche'. That side of white scum needed a slap around into reality at the time. KKKlansmen were the ones who started 'the drive by hit' back then,the useless hood wearing pricks, no wonder there was an underlying anger in young black males growing up.

Watch this fellas this a great interview.Listen to Ali when asked if he was the greatest, he is humble and honest. (something he couldnt be in the face of fighting for his life).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlB-N...eature=related


I think all these guys are big spirited men whatever they have or havent done in the past; It just wouldnt of been the same without any of them.

Pretty sharp for a lighter of the heavys to get away with all he did.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpvH6LBR654&feature=related

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Tell us who the greatest sportsman is then?

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Its not ali thats for sure, a dude that has to cheat to hose LHW henry cooper out of a KO win should not be rewarded with the monika of greatest sportsmen ever! He also turned into a flabby mess once he hit 30.

PPl like u rate him because alot of people refer to his Civil Rights stuff ... OK, that's very admirable he did that, cool. Ali was dictated too constantly his little ditties he gave reporters were contrived and pre though out, he had a very low IQ something like 76! He was a puppet for AN ABSOLUTE LOON called elijah mohammed and used as a plaything by the black power movement.

Also, he had alot of fights that could have gone either way on the cards. He lost 5 times, but could have (by my count of close scores) lost 9. If he was 52-9 instead of 56-5 he would not be "The Greatest". Marciano was unbeaten, Louis had 25 defenses in 11 years, Ali would be know as "the guy who won the title 3 times". Not "The Greatest"

Alot of that was in the judges hands. Greatest sport ppl ever? There are many who did much more (in sporting terms) than ali...

Lionel messi (will go onto become the greatest ever soccer player no question)

Nadia comaneci (gymnastics) produced one of the greatest individual performances in the history of modern sports.

Don Bradman - Cricket Batting average of 99.94 is far and away the highest any player in the 135 years of Test cricket

Martina Navratilova (tennis) Navratilova won 18 Grand Slam singles titles, 31 Grand Slam doubles titles (an all-time record), and 10 Grand Slam mixed doubles titles.

Pele (football) This Brazilian legend is the all-time leading scorer of the Brazil national football team.

Valentino Rossi (MotoGP) This Italian is the Michael Schumacher of motorcycling. Rossihas won 8 Grand Prix World Championships.

Gareth Edwards (rugby) Wales’ youngest ever captain also scored what is referred to as “that try”, thought of as the greatest ever, for the Barbarians against the All Blacks in 1973..

Shall i go on?

Bruce lee (martia arts)
Jesse owns (track & field)
Maradone (fotball)
Ty cobb (baseball)
Jack Nicklaus (golf)
Tiger wods (golf)
Roger Federer (tennis)
Michael Jordan (basketball)
Steve Redgrave (rowing)
Shane warne (cricket)
Wayne Gretzky (ice hockey)
Michael Schumacher (motor racing)
Joe Montana (American football)
Michael Phelps (swimming)
Rob kaman (kickboxing)
Jackie Joyner-Kersee (track and field)
Dan gable (wrestling)
Usain Bolt (athletics)
Babe Ruth (baseball)

Ali is a long way off being the best heavyweight ever! He lost to norton at least twice! Could quite easily have lost 2 to CW joe frazier (who only had one eye) should by rights be 1-1 with average henry cooper, lost to a 6-0 novice etc etc...

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Originally Posted by THE PHILOSOPHER

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Tell us who the greatest sportsman is then?

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Its not ali thats for sure, a dude that has to cheat to hose LHW henry cooper out of a KO win should not be rewarded with the monika of greatest sportsmen ever! He also turned into a flabby mess once he hit 30.

PPl like u rate him because alot of people refer to his Civil Rights stuff ... OK, that's very admirable he did that, cool. Ali was dictated too constantly his little ditties he gave reporters were contrived and pre though out, he had a very low IQ something like 76! He was a puppet for AN ABSOLUTE LOON called elijah mohammed and used as a plaything by the black power movement.

Also, he had alot of fights that could have gone either way on the cards. He lost 5 times, but could have (by my count of close scores) lost 9. If he was 52-9 instead of 56-5 he would not be "The Greatest". Marciano was unbeaten, Louis had 25 defenses in 11 years, Ali would be know as "the guy who won the title 3 times". Not "The Greatest"

Alot of that was in the judges hands. Greatest sport ppl ever? There are many who did much more (in sporting terms) than ali...

Lionel messi (will go onto become the greatest ever soccer player no question)

Nadia comaneci (gymnastics) produced one of the greatest individual performances in the history of modern sports.

Don Bradman - Cricket Batting average of 99.94 is far and away the highest any player in the 135 years of Test cricket

Martina Navratilova (tennis) Navratilova won 18 Grand Slam singles titles, 31 Grand Slam doubles titles (an all-time record), and 10 Grand Slam mixed doubles titles.

Pele (football) This Brazilian legend is the all-time leading scorer of the Brazil national football team.

Valentino Rossi (MotoGP) This Italian is the Michael Schumacher of motorcycling. Rossihas won 8 Grand Prix World Championships.

Gareth Edwards (rugby) Wales’ youngest ever captain also scored what is referred to as “that try”, thought of as the greatest ever, for the Barbarians against the All Blacks in 1973..

Shall i go on?

Bruce lee (martia arts)
Jesse owns (track & field)
Maradone (fotball)
Ty cobb (baseball)
Jack Nicklaus (golf)
Tiger wods (golf)
Roger Federer (tennis)
Michael Jordan (basketball)
Steve Redgrave (rowing)
Shane warne (cricket)
Wayne Gretzky (ice hockey)
Michael Schumacher (motor racing)
Joe Montana (American football)
Michael Phelps (swimming)
Rob kaman (kickboxing)
Jackie Joyner-Kersee (track and field)
Dan gable (wrestling)
Usain Bolt (athletics)
Babe Ruth (baseball)

Ali is a long way off being the best heavyweight ever! He lost to norton at least twice! Could quite easily have lost 2 to CW joe frazier (who only had one eye) should by rights be 1-1 with average henry cooper, lost to a 6-0 novice etc etc...

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yea he lost to Frazier, since when is that a bad thing? seeing how only 2 men beat him (Foreman and Ali himself), Muhammad won the clearest decision in the 2nd fight even though it's the least memorable fight of the trilogy, he lost to Norton with his jaw hanging on by a thread and again, Norton wasn't necessarily a bum, he beat Cooper soundly apart from a flash knockdown in the first fight in which Ali bloodied and battered and stopped Sir Henry in the very next round, he beat him up even clearer in the rematch, he lost to a young Olympic Gold Medalist while being in the 18th year and 57th pro fight of his career, already privately showing signs of Parkinson's Disease, so what?

His wins over the likes of Liston, Patterson, Chuvalo, Quarry, Bonavena, Frazier, Tirell, Ellis, Mathis, Foster, Foreman, Lyle, Shavers, and Spinks all pretty much much make up for it

His wins over the likes of Liston, Patterson, Chuvalo, Quarry, Bonavena, Frazier, Tirell, Ellis, Mathis, Foster, Foreman, Lyle, Shavers, and Spinks all pretty much much make up for it[/QUOTE]

-Patterson was approaching 40 and weighed 188½lbs

-Liston was probably 40 and a heroine addict (was mob ruled and probably threw the 2nd fight, first was close liston quit on stool)

-Chuvalo was nearly 40 by the 2nd fight and was basicaly a journeyman having 18 losses.

-Quarry was a 190lb CW and a never was.

-Bonavena lol

-Frazier 5'10" 205lb crude slugger that would be unable to fight nowadays due to being blind in one eye.

-Terrell, i read recently that terrell was an example of how ali would handle the klitschkos Ernie Terrell was 6'6" and a good boxer but thats were the comparisons end...

Ernie Terrell IS ONE OF THE WEAKEST MOST FEATHERFISTED GUYS ever witnessed in the whole history of real heavyweight boxing.

He scored only 2 KOs (in his entire career) in real heavyweight fights.

1 KO against Garcia (who started at 150+ lbs).
and 1 KO against a 33-16 bum (Bill Drover).

Ernie Terrell is NOTHING compared to the Klitschkos.

Terrell's real heavyweight record (200x2) is 9-5.

Additionally Terrell claims that Ali thumbed him ("Clay as Clay can") so that his eye got jammed and was fixed in one direction since the early rounds.

Terrell's medium weight is 197 lbs. He was a CRUISER. Compare Terrell with modern cruisers not with real heavyweights 50 pounds heavier.

-Foster was a LHW in his mid 30's (WEIGHED 180LBS FOR THE FIGHT)

-Elliss was 185LBS for the ali fight, good win but nothing special considering he lost 12 fights.

-Mathis was a fat blob at nearly 260lbs

Buster mathis:

http://www.corbisimages.com/images/C...4-ad7b08c5d865

http://www.corbisimages.com/images/C...e-6e81804bab05

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images...jpg?1329380070

-Spinks was 6-0 when he beat ali lol and went onto lose 17 of his fights.

-Foreman was too thick to guage ring tactics and gassed after using ali as a punching bag.

-Shavers was a 200lb journeyman that was kayoed in 1 round by LHW gerry quarry, shavers was never a champ.

Here's 185 LB HENRY COOPER:

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/image...51513_ali4.jpg

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Originally Posted by THE PHILOSOPHER

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Tell us who the greatest sportsman is then?

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Its not ali thats for sure, a dude that has to cheat to hose LHW henry cooper out of a KO win should not be rewarded with the monika of greatest sportsmen ever! He also turned into a flabby mess once he hit 30.

PPl like u rate him because alot of people refer to his Civil Rights stuff ... OK, that's very admirable he did that, cool. Ali was dictated too constantly his little ditties he gave reporters were contrived and pre though out, he had a very low IQ something like 76! He was a puppet for AN ABSOLUTE LOON called elijah mohammed and used as a plaything by the black power movement.

Also, he had alot of fights that could have gone either way on the cards. He lost 5 times, but could have (by my count of close scores) lost 9. If he was 52-9 instead of 56-5 he would not be "The Greatest". Marciano was unbeaten, Louis had 25 defenses in 11 years, Ali would be know as "the guy who won the title 3 times". Not "The Greatest"

Alot of that was in the judges hands. Greatest sport ppl ever? There are many who did much more (in sporting terms) than ali...

Lionel messi (will go onto become the greatest ever soccer player no question)

Nadia comaneci (gymnastics) produced one of the greatest individual performances in the history of modern sports.

Don Bradman - Cricket Batting average of 99.94 is far and away the highest any player in the 135 years of Test cricket

Martina Navratilova (tennis) Navratilova won 18 Grand Slam singles titles, 31 Grand Slam doubles titles (an all-time record), and 10 Grand Slam mixed doubles titles.

Pele (football) This Brazilian legend is the all-time leading scorer of the Brazil national football team.

Valentino Rossi (MotoGP) This Italian is the Michael Schumacher of motorcycling. Rossihas won 8 Grand Prix World Championships.

Gareth Edwards (rugby) Wales’ youngest ever captain also scored what is referred to as “that try”, thought of as the greatest ever, for the Barbarians against the All Blacks in 1973..

Shall i go on?

Bruce lee (martia arts)
Jesse owns (track & field)
Maradone (fotball)
Ty cobb (baseball)
Jack Nicklaus (golf)
Tiger wods (golf)
Roger Federer (tennis)
Michael Jordan (basketball)
Steve Redgrave (rowing)
Shane warne (cricket)
Wayne Gretzky (ice hockey)
Michael Schumacher (motor racing)
Joe Montana (American football)
Michael Phelps (swimming)
Rob kaman (kickboxing)
Jackie Joyner-Kersee (track and field)
Dan gable (wrestling)
Usain Bolt (athletics)
Babe Ruth (baseball)

Ali is a long way off being the best heavyweight ever! He lost to norton at least twice! Could quite easily have lost 2 to CW joe frazier (who only had one eye) should by rights be 1-1 with average henry cooper, lost to a 6-0 novice etc etc...

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Oh shaaadaaaap..fuckin hell! :rolleyes:

Who gives a shit what his IQ was?? Makes him even more impressive I'd say.

You're stuck on this "greatest ever boxer" tag. Nobody has ever said that. Please feel free to tell me how any of those sports stars you mention above elicited more emotion or reaction in the public than Muhammad Ali?

Even my mum knows who Ali is and she's from a remote little village in Cyprus who hasn't a clue about any sports whatsoever. I guarantee she wouldn't know who anybody on your list is. Not one. Shit, I don't even know who some of those people on your list are!

That's why he was "the greatest" - None of those stars had the effect on the world that Ali had.

again another list of hollow weak fake excuses to try and discredit the man that picked up a Gold Medal at the Olympics, became the first 3 time HW champion in history, and whom will always be remembered by everyone even by people who never have seen a single fight, you know the man is a legend when the likes of Holyfield, Tyson, Lewis, Wlad and Vitali Klitschko, Foreman, and Holmes will never even be considered to be anywhere close to as great as Ali was, he fought when the HW division was stacked and the center of the public eye, he always managed to comeback despite what was going on outside the ring, something few other fighters can say

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Originally Posted by THE PHILOSOPHER

His wins over the likes of Liston, Patterson, Chuvalo, Quarry, Bonavena, Frazier, Tirell, Ellis, Mathis, Foster, Foreman, Lyle, Shavers, and Spinks all pretty much much make up for it

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-Patterson was approaching 40 and weighed 188½lbs

-Liston was probably 40 and a heroine addict (was mob ruled and probably threw the 2nd fight, first was close liston quit on stool)

-Chuvalo was nearly 40 by the 2nd fight and was basicaly a journeyman having 18 losses.

-Quarry was a 190lb CW and a never was.

-Bonavena lol

-Frazier 5'10" 205lb crude slugger that would be unable to fight nowadays due to being blind in one eye.

-Terrell, i read recently that terrell was an example of how ali would handle the klitschkos Ernie Terrell was 6'6" and a good boxer but thats were the comparisons end...

Ernie Terrell IS ONE OF THE WEAKEST MOST FEATHERFISTED GUYS ever witnessed in the whole history of real heavyweight boxing.

He scored only 2 KOs (in his entire career) in real heavyweight fights.

1 KO against Garcia (who started at 150+ lbs).
and 1 KO against a 33-16 bum (Bill Drover).

Ernie Terrell is NOTHING compared to the Klitschkos.

Terrell's real heavyweight record (200x2) is 9-5.

Additionally Terrell claims that Ali thumbed him ("Clay as Clay can") so that his eye got jammed and was fixed in one direction since the early rounds.

Terrell's medium weight is 197 lbs. He was a CRUISER. Compare Terrell with modern cruisers not with real heavyweights 50 pounds heavier.

-Foster was a LHW in his mid 30's (WEIGHED 180LBS FOR THE FIGHT)

-Elliss was 185LBS for the ali fight, good win but nothing special considering he lost 12 fights.

-Mathis was a fat blob at nearly 260lbs[/QUOTE]

Sorry fella, you were right all along and the majority of the world were wrong..i forgot ali IQ was 76 it all makes sense now..

He should have fought in vietnam but he was too stupid to realise that..lol

Muppet!

In this age of the Internet, it's easy to sit back and pick old fighters apart for the littlest details... probably just to get a few "ooohs" and "aaahs" from people you're trying to impress with your trivia-gathering skills.

But unless you lived in the age when all this shit was going on, you have no place to criticize like that. You can criticize a man's actions... but you can't possibly know what his motives and circumstances were. There's too many smug, young "know-it-all's" running around showing off what they've read on Wikipedia and/or BoxRec.

To those I would say: "What the fuck do you know about the state of the world when Ali was young and saying all those outrageous things?" Sure, he was a bit insensitive and many times his mouth got him into trouble. But who here has lived in an age when you were refused access to a restaurant, school, or bus because of the color of your skin? If you haven't, then you're not qualified to criticize the guy's motives.

He pissed off many people... that's right. But in his own, trash-talking way, he probably got many, many people talking about the issues that were affecting society in those days. The Vietnam war wasn't a very popular war with many people in the U.S. And Ali decided to take a stand, knowing he would be stripped of his title, and incur the wrath of millions of people. But he did it anyway. And as for his constant barrage of insults at Joe Frazier.... hell..... fighters today say much worse things, and people just laugh it off as part of the game. Can you spell "double standard"?

So true. Go back 40 years and judge ali and tell him to his face that shit about his IQ when you havent even seen the inside of a boxing ring.
Prick.

I know you're mums know who ali is but that's hardly a ringing endorsement is it! My mum knows who the jackson five are but hasn't got a clue who i.e ludovico einaudi or pink floyd are! lol A lot of americans and westerners in general are quite ignorant.

Ali's not the best boxer ever, that would be ray robinson, laszlo papp, stevenson, greb etc! He's not the greatest HW ever either, most of the post 70's boxers would beat him i.e tyson, wlad, lewis, vitali, prime bowe etc

I laugh my arse off when i hear the klit's wouldn't do well in ali's era (which mainly consisted of sub 200lb fighters as i have shown lol) yet the only half decent europeans ali fought (the wall well and truly still up!) were 185lb henry cooper RIP (who today would be a cruiserweight journeyman) should by rights have a brutal KO win over PRIME cassius, And B level HW and featherfist joe bugner (who was notorious for not even trying in a fight and who was just in the ring to make a living) who laughably and quite easily went the distance with both men (the frazier fight was very close in fact!) and ali was hospitalised after the his bugner fight!! Bugner was swimming in the hotel pool straight after lol

Neither cooper or bugner are remotely close to the level of the superheavyweights of recent years....Hell even 195lb southpaw karl milenberger frustrated the hell out of ali and ali has since said karl was his trickiest EVER fight! What does that tell you in this age of southpaws and european champions?

Im sorry to shatter your illusions on the crappyness of that era and the 180lb AMERICAN fighters ali was lining up to humiliate, yes there were some great fights, buts thats because most of them were limited fighters who didn't know how to keep each other at bay like i.e kllitschkos do....

And the statement of 'He's the greatest of all time!' nonsense, how do you measure such a thing? Sports go back millennia after millennia, how do you know there has not been greater sportsmen than ali?

In terms of what they achieved in there respective sports there were many ppl even over the last century who far surpass what ali did in his, far surpass!! Iv named many already, Just because you and your mums are ignorant to them or TV doesn't show them doesn't mean they were no good!

Jesse owens is the greatest BLACK sportsmen ever anyway if we are to judge them the way we do ali!

Ali is a product of the first media age, only the west really knew who ali was (america being the epi centre of the TV age) because of the advent of TV and there being only 4 channels lol America and the west were dominated by its media, If he were around today with the multiple media formats in a more global age he would not be as notorious/infamous, He'd be just another american gobshite....

PHILOSOPHER you are unreal, for a person that knows boxing, your bias towards Ali for his out of ring activties have clouded you judgement of the great fighter that he was. if Chris Byrd had done half the think Ali did, you would be all over here claiming he was the best heavyweight ever. :)

Its not all about weight..ali was one the fastest heavyweights ever and so was tyson.
Tyson weighed less than most of his opponents. Its all about skill, accuracy and stamina..Ali had that in bundles.
Its always interesting to hear negative view about ali but your argument is shot down in flames when you compare vitalis record and greatest loss against a fat out of prime lewis.

Come ere son, let me give you a hug.

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Originally Posted by THE PHILOSOPHER

I know you're mums know who ali is but that's hardly a ringing endorsement is it! My mum knows who the jackson five are but hasn't got a clue who i.e ludovico einaudi or pink floyd are! lol A lot of americans and westerners in general are ignorant.

He'd be just another american gobshite....

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That was my whole point, dickhead. My mums not a Westerner. She's from a poor village in Cyprus and knew of Ali which is unheard of for any other sports star, especially in that day and age. Ali's starpower was massive. He effected everyone.

Where are you from? I'm guessing from that last sentence that you're one of us Brits who couldn't give a "Yank" credit even if he saved you from a burning building. Lose the blinkers and you might see the greatness in Ali.

Maybe there were other sportsman who achieved more than Ali but again, they didn't receive the coverage by your own admission so stop clutching at straws. Claiming people are ignorant and that's why they know of Ali? Lol..bullshit. Even if that we true, it doesn't matter. He's still arguably the greatest sportsman to have ever lived even if by virtue of "ignorance"

*Ali made racial remark after racial remark... that's not the olympics.

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Originally Posted by bigstinkybug

*Ali made racial remark after racial remark... that's not the olympics.

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Ali has said a lot of things in his life and he has certainly apologised for most of the contradictions in his life. Ali was an Olympian so has more right to lead the parade than Beckham.