Re: Lucian Bute - Dennis Grachev thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Greenbeanz
Bute has always been limited. Overrated and limited.
He has a ton of skill, but I feel like his handlers never gave him the chance to grow as a fighter by not putting him in against anyone with a real chance of beating him. He looked completely lost against Froch, in part, because it was the first time he had ever really faced adversity (aside from the last 10 seconds of the first Andrade fight where all he had to do was stand back up) and a fighter who negated him game plan. He couldn't learn to adapt on the fly against a fighter of Froch's calibre and as a result he got steam rolled and we got to see his confidence shatter over the course of 5 brutally one-sided rounds. I actually still think Bute has the skills to beat Froch, but I don't think he ever will now.
Re: Lucian Bute - Dennis Grachev thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ross
I think Bute needs another fight before he would even fancy his own chances against Froch but what I did see was that Bute in the final round was still strong and was the boss against a natural light heavy and was just getting back in to his stride.
If this had been the unbeaten Silakh that Bute beat would people be singing hos praises for beating someone that was being hyped? Bute just beat a strong dangerous opponent, coming off a very bad knockout loss. Give him a break, it wasnt a bad result. I dont think he beats Froch as Carl is too physical for him but id still be interested to see how Ward would look against that awkward southpaw stance and Butes genuine power. Bute may be better to try for a Ward match.
I think Bute - Ward would look a lot like Ward - Dawson, with the same result.
Re: Lucian Bute - Dennis Grachev thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CFH
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Greenbeanz
Bute has always been limited. Overrated and limited.
He has a ton of skill, but I feel like his handlers never gave him the chance to grow as a fighter by not putting him in against anyone with a real chance of beating him. He looked completely lost against Froch, in part, because it was the first time he had ever really faced adversity (aside from the last 10 seconds of the first Andrade fight where all he had to do was stand back up) and a fighter who negated him game plan. He couldn't learn to adapt on the fly against a fighter of Froch's calibre and as a result he got steam rolled and we got to see his confidence shatter over the course of 5 brutally one-sided rounds. I actually still think Bute has the skills to beat Froch, but I don't think he ever will now.
I be fair Andrade has Bute doing the chicken dance for about the last 2:00 of the fight. He had Bute in way worse trouble than Martinez was against Chavez. Marlon Wright was practically standing him up. If he had made Bute take 2 steps from the corner in the last 10 seconds (which is prob what u r referring to...) he would have fallen on his face. But, instead he let Bute get up turned around and yelled at Andrade for standing in the corner for some strange reason.
Bute has tons of skill, a great chin, and tons of heart. I do not know how people are getting off that it is for any lack of effort or output. The problem is simply he cannot box and win rounds. He will not use his jab, and he allows other fighters to walk him down without using a job at all. Froch is tailored for this and so is Grachev
Bute will learn to hold his hands up some more, bc he obviously is not nearly as slick as the swagger he gives off in the ring. He like the shoulder shrug a lot
Also, Bute was weight drained for this fight. I think he got big and comfortable measuring his wallet after the big payday from Froch. He had no pop on his punches after the 4th round. All the damage he did in the last round was an accumulation from rounds 11 &12
Re: Lucian Bute - Dennis Grachev thread
Bute looked awful to me and against an opponent who looked and was massively inexperienced. Some of those punches and combinations Grachev was throwing looked awful. Bute should not have been having issues with a man of only a dozen fights and that and the Froch thrashing suggests to me that he is pretty much done. He is too old to learn new tricks and he has lost his confidence. A Froch rematch is pointless, he will be smashed down again and it is a waste of Froch's time at this point in Froch's career.
Bute needs to rebuild and even then I doubt he has what it takes. He's a bit like Khan in that you know it only takes one to make his soul depart.
Re: Lucian Bute - Dennis Grachev thread
I was a big Bute supporter, but even I have to say that him getting back in there with Froch would be along the same line as Floyd Patterson getting back in there with Liston after getting crushed the first time.
Froch will have no respect for him and really give him another pasting.
Re: Lucian Bute - Dennis Grachev thread
People are being too harsh on Bute. Grachev was a tough opponent to pick after suffering the first defeat of his career, and a bad knockout at that. Grachev is a big puncher with a strong chin. He's also a natural light heavyweight.
What did we learn about Bute? Start off with the negatives: recently, he has had a lot of trouble with distance. I don't really undestand it. Everyone forgets that Bute kept Sakio Bika at bay with little trouble, less trouble than Andre Ward had. He also dominated Librado Andrade for two fights. I understand Andrade caught up with him at the end of the first fight, but Bute had the distance mastered for almost every single round. Something is off about his ring generalship. Maybe age has caught up with him; his reflexes have slipped, which has affected his ability to gauge distance. Here, he let Grachev close the distance at will and he was content to hang around on the ropes, which he should have learned from Froch, is bad news for him.
Also, negative, where's the jab?
On a positive note, he went the distance with a tough guy and finished arguably stronger than he started. He took some big punches from Grachev and never went down. That has to have a good effect for a guy who suffered a dehabilitating knockout last time out.
I don't see the point in not fighting Froch next, even if Bute loses. Bute has shown that he beats B-level fighters. Why do we need to see him do more of that? This is as good as a time as any to face Froch again. It's a big money fight and it'll be in Montreal. He'll have his fans behind him. If he's going to lose, lose to the best.
Re: Lucian Bute - Dennis Grachev thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
People are being too harsh on Bute. Grachev was a tough opponent to pick after suffering the first defeat of his career, and a bad knockout at that. Grachev is a big puncher with a strong chin. He's also a natural light heavyweight.
What did we learn about Bute? Start off with the negatives: recently, he has had a lot of trouble with distance. I don't really undestand it. Everyone forgets that Bute kept Sakio Bika at bay with little trouble, less trouble than Andre Ward had. He also dominated Librado Andrade for two fights. I understand Andrade caught up with him at the end of the first fight, but Bute had the distance mastered for almost every single round. Something is off about his ring generalship. Maybe age has caught up with him; his reflexes have slipped, which has affected his ability to gauge distance. Here, he let Grachev close the distance at will and he was content to hang around on the ropes, which he should have learned from Froch, is bad news for him.
Also, negative, where's the jab?
On a positive note, he went the distance with a tough guy and finished arguably stronger than he started. He took some big punches from Grachev and never went down. That has to have a good effect for a guy who suffered a dehabilitating knockout last time out.
I don't see the point in not fighting Froch next, even if Bute loses. Bute has shown that he beats B-level fighters. Why do we need to see him do more of that? This is as good as a time as any to face Froch again. It's a big money fight and it'll be in Montreal. He'll have his fans behind him. If he's going to lose, lose to the best.
You have a refreshing take on Bute and make some good points I didn't think of.
People are quick to write a fighter off and question his whole career as a fraud after one KO loss at the elite level.
It is true that Bute handled Bika with ease like no one before or since which is quite an accomplishment, also KO'd dangerous brawlers like Miranda and Andrade with body shots.
I don't think Bute will beat Froch in the rematch, as Froch is a hell of a boxer/fighter and in the zone right now.
I do think he can do a lot better than he did in the first match tho when he just froze up and got a beating.
Re: Lucian Bute - Dennis Grachev thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hulk
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
People are being too harsh on Bute. Grachev was a tough opponent to pick after suffering the first defeat of his career, and a bad knockout at that. Grachev is a big puncher with a strong chin. He's also a natural light heavyweight.
What did we learn about Bute? Start off with the negatives: recently, he has had a lot of trouble with distance. I don't really undestand it. Everyone forgets that Bute kept Sakio Bika at bay with little trouble, less trouble than Andre Ward had. He also dominated Librado Andrade for two fights. I understand Andrade caught up with him at the end of the first fight, but Bute had the distance mastered for almost every single round. Something is off about his ring generalship. Maybe age has caught up with him; his reflexes have slipped, which has affected his ability to gauge distance. Here, he let Grachev close the distance at will and he was content to hang around on the ropes, which he should have learned from Froch, is bad news for him.
Also, negative, where's the jab?
On a positive note, he went the distance with a tough guy and finished arguably stronger than he started. He took some big punches from Grachev and never went down. That has to have a good effect for a guy who suffered a dehabilitating knockout last time out.
I don't see the point in not fighting Froch next, even if Bute loses. Bute has shown that he beats B-level fighters. Why do we need to see him do more of that? This is as good as a time as any to face Froch again. It's a big money fight and it'll be in Montreal. He'll have his fans behind him. If he's going to lose, lose to the best.
You have a refreshing take on Bute and make some good points I didn't think of.
People are quick to write a fighter off and question his whole career as a fraud after one KO loss at the elite level.
It is true that Bute handled Bika with ease like no one before or since which is quite an accomplishment, also KO'd dangerous brawlers like Miranda and Andrade with body shots.
I don't think Bute will beat Froch in the rematch, as Froch is a hell of a boxer/fighter and in the zone right now.
I do think he can do a lot better than he did in the first match tho when he just froze up and got a beating.
I do respect Bute for coming back and a win is a win. I do give Grachev credit too because he wasnt coming there to be turned over. It could have been a lot worse for Bute, I guess some people were expecting fireworks but I dont think any top fighter would have an easy nights work with Grachev. I was expecting Bute to turn up the heat a little and he did show that towards the end of the fight and to give Bute credit he did stand up to Grachevs punches.
Only Bute knows if he can compete with Froch in the rematch, if it does happen next that really could be the end for Bute though. After the Grachev performance I think Bute needs maybe one more fight of confidence building before a Froch fight. But it probably wouldnt happen like that, so we will have to wait and see.
Re: Lucian Bute - Dennis Grachev thread
@tamseddon - Tam - good comment. Here is what Jean Pascal had to say: Jean Pascal Defends Lucian Bute Against The Critics - Boxing News
He makes the point about Bute's reflexes: they weren't there for the first 11 rounds, he was rusty, and that we saw the real Bute in the final round.
