Re: Aftermath and repercussions of Obama victory
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Unfortunately, grey, politics is politics and will always be. Gone are the days when the true good of the people... ALL the people... is considered above all else. There's always a hidden political agenda and special interests to appease. Extreme environmentalists would have us shut the country down, so as to not endanger the yellow-striped, hook-billed, heavy-feathered hummingbird... and our children and grandchildren can go camping and see them. Extreme oil and coal advocates would have us think that oil and coal are limitless, and screw the environment... what's a few major oil spills here and there, and who cares about emissions from burning coal.
I don't consider myself either Republican or Democrat (contrary to what Lyle may think, with all due respect, Lyle). But I have a deep mistrust for Mitt Romney, which I expressed as many times as I could before and after the elections. I've never claimed Barack Obama is perfect, either. I'm sure we've had much better and more effective Presidents. But to me it was the lesser of two evils.
You, unlike most of us (or all) in the forum, live in Montana. So you have a long-standing and clear view of the politics in your state and your neck of the woods. You have your reasons for supporting or not supporting certain issues. The issues you consider important may be 180 degrees different from those that someone in NYC might consider important. But your point is well taken. Politicians by and large, lie. Believe me. If a new candidate surfaced tomorrow who looked and sounded capable of leading the country and doing what is best for ALL Americans, not just the wealthy upper class... and could balance the need for energy with the needs of the environment... and could work truly in a bi-partisan manner for the good of the country.... I wouldn't give a rat's ass whether he/she was Republican, Democrat, or Martian. I'd support that person.
OK a few things and I'll number them just because I like to not because I want to be a dick about things.
#1 The first part I put in bold & underlined: When has that ever been the case EVER in the history of this nation or the world? In history there's no such thing as "The good old days" the world has always been and will always be dog eat dog. What's good for some people might go against the interests of another population and that has always been the case from the dawn of time. Hell even now what's good for Americans is not necessarily all that great for the rest of the world and in a global society like we have these days so it's even more difficult to choose a line of thinking that benefits all parties involved or even harms the least amount of people.
#2 Why do you distrust Romney specifically? I do not trust Obama A) Because he had no experience his first term and B ) he did not fulfill his promises and has further divided this country either on purpose or from not being as well skilled in the art of politics as he should be. Obama was a Community Organizer and they play an "us vs them" game to get concessions from their opponents, there's no point where the 2 groups "kiss and make up" it's the kind of leadership that builds mutual hostility and resentment...as we've seen so very often.
#3 The problem we have about considering "What's good for which groups of people" is one of how we should go about solving the issue. When it comes to the poor, some people wish to offer money, some food, some jobs. What's the best way to fix the issues? Hell it's anyone's guess all are good in theory. I try to make my decisions based on human behavioral psychology because that is how individuals operate in everyday life.
#4 It's going to hurt to bring it up for most of us, but George W. Bush, (despite what damn near everyone says about him) DID reach across the isle on several issues: education, environment, nuclear nonproliferation etc. The credit he recieved is minimal (from all parties) and he is roundly condemned by the Right as "weak" and the left as "stupid". He was no saint, he was not perfect, but he attempted to appease his detractors in some ways which only left them more angry at the times they didn't get what they wanted.
Re: Aftermath and repercussions of Obama victory
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Unfortunately, grey, politics is politics and will always be. Gone are the days when the true good of the people... ALL the people... is considered above all else. There's always a hidden political agenda and special interests to appease. Extreme environmentalists would have us shut the country down, so as to not endanger the yellow-striped, hook-billed, heavy-feathered hummingbird... and our children and grandchildren can go camping and see them. Extreme oil and coal advocates would have us think that oil and coal are limitless, and screw the environment... what's a few major oil spills here and there, and who cares about emissions from burning coal.
I don't consider myself either Republican or Democrat (contrary to what Lyle may think, with all due respect, Lyle). But I have a deep mistrust for Mitt Romney, which I expressed as many times as I could before and after the elections. I've never claimed Barack Obama is perfect, either. I'm sure we've had much better and more effective Presidents. But to me it was the lesser of two evils.
You, unlike most of us (or all) in the forum, live in Montana. So you have a long-standing and clear view of the politics in your state and your neck of the woods. You have your reasons for supporting or not supporting certain issues. The issues you consider important may be 180 degrees different from those that someone in NYC might consider important. But your point is well taken. Politicians by and large, lie. Believe me. If a new candidate surfaced tomorrow who looked and sounded capable of leading the country and doing what is best for ALL Americans, not just the wealthy upper class... and could balance the need for energy with the needs of the environment... and could work truly in a bi-partisan manner for the good of the country.... I wouldn't give a rat's ass whether he/she was Republican, Democrat, or Martian. I'd support that person.
OK a few things and I'll number them just because I like to not because I want to be a dick about things.
#1 The first part I put in bold & underlined: When has that ever been the case EVER in the history of this nation or the world? In history there's no such thing as "The good old days" the world has always been and will always be dog eat dog. What's good for some people might go against the interests of another population and that has always been the case from the dawn of time. Hell even now what's good for Americans is not necessarily all that great for the rest of the world and in a global society like we have these days so it's even more difficult to choose a line of thinking that benefits all parties involved or even harms the least amount of people.
Maybe you're so jaded as to think there's NEVER been a public servant who's had the best interests of the country and its people in mind, first and foremost. And MAYBE you're right in being jaded. I don't know. All I know is I'd prefer to think such a political leader has existed at some point in time.
When choosing between benefiting one group or another, certainly you're going to disappoint some. But you try to make the wisest decision, adversely impacting the least amount of people. And you cut no corners explaining to those not benefitted why you made the decision you made.
#2 Why do you distrust Romney specifically? I do not trust Obama A) Because he had no experience his first term and B ) he did not fulfill his promises and has further divided this country either on purpose or from not being as well skilled in the art of politics as he should be. Obama was a Community Organizer and they play an "us vs them" game to get concessions from their opponents, there's no point where the 2 groups "kiss and make up" it's the kind of leadership that builds mutual hostility and resentment...as we've seen so very often.
Specifically? Intent. I don't believe Romney actually intended on carrying through every claim he made in his campaign. I'm sorry... he doesn't hold much water as a champion of the middle class. You mistrust Obama because he failed to "fulfill his promises." Fair enough. If I tell you I'm going to do something, and I don't... no matter what reasons or excuses I give you... you might not trust me to deliver a second time. I'm more forgiving. If I think the INTENT was there, I'm willing to give the man a second shot. Big difference. Intent. That's my answer.
#3 The problem we have about considering "What's good for which groups of people" is one of how we should go about solving the issue. When it comes to the poor, some people wish to offer money, some food, some jobs. What's the best way to fix the issues? Hell it's anyone's guess all are good in theory. I try to make my decisions based on human behavioral psychology because that is how individuals operate in everyday life.
I have no qualms with the above. But you brush this off because in your mind I'm a liberal, and no amount of words from me are going to convince you otherwise. Once your mind is made up, it's a steel trap... a closed one. But I, like you, am against uncontrolled handouts. As a working class citizen, and one who has worked his ass off all my life, I have a problem with the leeches of society. And that is not just a U.S. problem. That is a global problem.
#4 It's going to hurt to bring it up for most of us, but George W. Bush, (despite what damn near everyone says about him) DID reach across the isle on several issues: education, environment, nuclear nonproliferation etc. The credit he recieved is minimal (from all parties) and he is roundly condemned by the Right as "weak" and the left as "stupid". He was no saint, he was not perfect, but he attempted to appease his detractors in some ways which only left them more angry at the times they didn't get what they wanted.
(shudder) Ah, yes-s-s-s..... Georgie. Well, I'm not going to argue your point about his reaching out on some occasions. I'll choose to take your word for it. But Bush's criticism was well-deserved. An international diplomat he was not. A President conscious of the environment he was not. And spare me your extremes here. One does not have to be either a (to use your words) "granola-eating, whale-saving (I added that one), hippie"..... or a "environment-be-damned, oil-drilling-maniac lunatic. One can happily co-exist in the middle. And yes, @Greenbeanz, this is your fucking cue to come barging in here and tell me that there's too much gray in the world. :rolleyes:
See above.
Re: Aftermath and repercussions of Obama victory
Intent??? So Obama means to follow through on his promises after 4 years of not worrying at all about the economy and forcing Obamacare down our throats? Hahaha....you are such a phoney you'd never vote Republican at least I'm honest when I say I'll never vote Democrat.
Re: Aftermath and repercussions of Obama victory
@TitoFan, my State of Texas overwhelmingly voted for Romney 57% to 41% for Obama. So I don't believe having a Dem president will amount to a hill of beans, and for the most part it's not going to change the way we do things here in Texas.
As for Texas wanting to succeed from the Union, that's bullshit talk that's been going on for the last 100 years, it ain't ever going to happen.
Re: Aftermath and repercussions of Obama victory
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Greenbeanz
There is too much gray in the world. Not enough Grey though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eg-zT3DZN40
Re: Aftermath and repercussions of Obama victory
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Intent??? So Obama means to follow through on his promises after 4 years of not worrying at all about the economy and forcing Obamacare down our throats? Hahaha....you are such a phoney you'd never vote Republican at least I'm honest when I say I'll never vote Democrat.
Funny you should use the word "phoney". The perfect description for Mitt the Twit.
And don't project your biases onto me. Just 'cause you'd rather die than vote Democrat, doesn't mean I'm as deranged as you. I'm open-minded, a concept that must be as foreign to you as sanskrit.
;)
Re: Aftermath and repercussions of Obama victory
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mars_ax
@
TitoFan , my State of Texas overwhelmingly voted for Romney 57% to 41% for Obama. So I don't believe having a Dem president will amount to a hill of beans, and for the most part it's not going to change the way we do things here in Texas.
As for Texas wanting to succeed from the Union, that's bullshit talk that's been going on for the last 100 years, it ain't ever going to happen.
I know it won't, @Mars_ax. It's pretty much inconceivable that a state would ever separate itself from the U.S. It's funny... but the "United" States are sometimes anything BUT.
Re: Aftermath and repercussions of Obama victory
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mars_ax
@
TitoFan , my State of Texas overwhelmingly voted for Romney 57% to 41% for Obama. So I don't believe having a Dem president will amount to a hill of beans, and for the most part it's not going to change the way we do things here in Texas.
As for Texas wanting to succeed from the Union, that's bullshit talk that's been going on for the last 100 years, it ain't ever going to happen.
I know it won't, @
Mars_ax. It's pretty much inconceivable that a state would ever separate itself from the U.S. It's funny... but the "United" States are sometimes anything BUT.
I believe the "United" States goes back to the original 13 States. If the Presidential election earlier this month showed one thing, it's that the "United States" is anything but united. More specifically, Americans are divided on social and political issues, but that's nothing new.
Re: Aftermath and repercussions of Obama victory
I know this has been beat to death, but I just couldn't resist.
Seven states qualify for secession response from White House
What put this over the edge for me as far as comedic content was the statement I've excerpted below:
"A counter-petition has been filed calling for the state capital Austin to secede from Texas and remain part of the United States".
I've paid good money to see stand-up comedy that's not as funny as this.
:rofmaoal:
Re: Aftermath and repercussions of Obama victory
Re: Aftermath and repercussions of Obama victory
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Intent??? So Obama means to follow through on his promises after 4 years of not worrying at all about the economy and forcing Obamacare down our throats? Hahaha....you are such a phoney you'd never vote Republican at least I'm honest when I say I'll never vote Democrat.
Funny you should use the word "phoney". The perfect description for Mitt the Twit.
And don't project your biases onto me. Just 'cause you'd rather die than vote Democrat, doesn't mean I'm as deranged as you. I'm open-minded, a concept that must be as foreign to you as sanskrit.
;)
Open minded? Haha is that why you constantly call my views extremist???
Re: Aftermath and repercussions of Obama victory
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
So chief exec Murray decided to do a preemptive strike on the poor bastards that worked for him?
Sounds like a sound, business, humanitarian move to me. :vd:
Never mind trying to outplace these people. Never mind their needs. I'm fucking pissed off that Obama won... so I'll show HIM... I'll just fire all my own people.
"The hurricane is coming and it may damage my house... so I'll just blow the fucking thing up and not give the hurricane the satisfaction of blowing it down".
Give it up, Lyle. You know this is a bullshit move, just like all the bullshit secession talk that's going on.
Just like @
Youngblood said...... epic butthurt.
LOL, you don't get it do you? As the owner of the business that is directly in the crosshairs of the President he probably tightened the belt in order to prepare his company to survive for the next 4 years. You don't run a business do you? I've met with friends and they had deals that were surefire things go belly up after the election....is it because the people are racist? Are they bitter? Well they might be bitter at the thought of a lost opportunity but they wouldn't cut off their nose to spite their face because at the end of the day their job as owner of a business is to MAKE MONEY.
But hey, I'm glad you liberals think it's all just a case of "butthurt", if that makes you feel better and keeps you feeling all warm & fuzzy on the inside as the economy slows to a grinding halt then that's fine. You call me out for generalizing when I show the guy gaming the welfare system but you're telling me that this guy who owns the Coal company and everyone else not making deals after the election is just on account of "butthurt".....that's rich man, quite funny.
It isn't Obama who fucked the coal industry, it's natural gas and supply and demand. Coal can't compete with natural gas anymore. I could post graphs of both prices going back a few years but you can go and look and learn.
