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Re: When has Wlad taken a flush shot and survived? (Post video clips)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
There is no point to this argument because we've had it before. We can agree to disagree. In my opinion, clearly not shared by you, Haye talked more crap than anyone since Tyson told Lewis he would eat his children. Then on the biggest stage in his career, Haye turned in a crap performance. Maybe if Haye hadn't told everyone that would listen he would decapitate Wlad, we wouldn't have expected an engaging fight because of their size difference. We had a right to be disappointed after Haye's pre-fight antics. Afterward, he blamed his lack of fight on his big toe. Really, that is all that needs to be said about that.
Agreed 100%. When you're making T-shirts of you decapitating a guy, talking about how he sucks and he's killing HW boxing and how you're going to destory him.... to put on a performance like Haye did was absolutely shameful.
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Re: When has Wlad taken a flush shot and survived? (Post video clips)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Haye jammed out. For all his yacking he looked like a child in the ring in need of a wet nurse and he had me fooled completely before the fight that he was going to decapitate Wlad.
He fooled you, me, and a lot of people.
I actually told friends who weren't boxing fans to watch it, because it was gaurenteed to be great. Haye made a complete asshole out of me and anyone who paid to see that garbage.
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Re: When has Wlad taken a flush shot and survived? (Post video clips)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Haye jammed out. For all his yacking he looked like a child in the ring in need of a wet nurse and he had me fooled completely before the fight that he was going to decapitate Wlad.
He fooled you, me, and a lot of people.
I actually told friends who weren't boxing fans to watch it, because it was gaurenteed to be great. Haye made a complete asshole out of me and anyone who paid to see that garbage.
Haye is a big contradiction he said fighting once a year is no problem as he does not get ring rust. Also he was asked about the decapitation T shirt and he basically said it was 4 years ago and it was a “means to an end” to get Wlad in the ring which it did. Bottom line do not take Haye seriously.
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Re: When has Wlad taken a flush shot and survived? (Post video clips)
[QUOTE=Beanflicker;1130348]
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Master defensive fighters are to be admired. Pernell Whitaker, Wilfredo Benitez, Floyd Mayweather. But they are/were there to fight and defeat their opponent. They don't/didn't cringe from engaging for fear of getting tagged.
You see, Wlad knows his chin ain't shit. He knows one good shot and he'll be laid out. What did Ali used to do? He would lean back, let the punch sail by, and throw a counter of his own. Same with Floyd and his shoulder roll. Something's coming back at you.
c) Pernell, Mayweather and Benitez were (and are) very much "safety first" guys. Like Wlad, they chose their punches wisely and rarely ever got out of their comfort zones.
Pernell and Floyd of late certainly fight more aggressively. They are within punching distance but are difficult to hit.
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Re: When has Wlad taken a flush shot and survived? (Post video clips)
Fair enough. I'll respond to each point within the body of your post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Master defensive fighters are to be admired. Pernell Whitaker, Wilfredo Benitez, Floyd Mayweather. But they are/were there to fight and defeat their opponent. They don't/didn't cringe from engaging for fear of getting tagged.
You see, Wlad knows his chin ain't shit. He knows one good shot and he'll be laid out. What did Ali used to do? He would lean back, let the punch sail by, and throw a counter of his own. Same with Floyd and his shoulder roll. Something's coming back at you.
A few issues with your post:
1) I find it odd that we're saying a guy with 50 KO's in 59 wins doesn't come to fight and defeat his opponents, but guys like Pernell Whitaker (37% KO ratio), Benitez (50% KO ratio) and Mayweather (60% KO ratio) do.
Odd yes... impossible no. You got to look at the big picture here. Knockout ratios alone don't tell the story. Many of those 50 Wlad KO victims came into the ring like scared sacrificial lambs. If he fought aggresive, he would have a higher ratio. The other three guys fought opposition LIGHT-YEARS ahead of anything Wlad has ever faced.
2) I think it's unfair to compare the defensive behaviours of Wladimir, a 6'7'' 250lb guy fighting in the Heavyweight division, with the defensive behaviours of smaller guys like Whitaker, Benitez and Mayweather.
a) Heavyweights obviously hit with a lot more force than a welterweight, so standing in front of a heavyweight and utilizing risky infighting defense is often not conducive with success, especially when we're talking about a guy who is often 5-7 inches taller than his opponent.
"Standing in front of a heavyweight" is your key phrase here, and I don't anyone here is claiming you have to stand in front of anybody in order to be exciting to the fans. And the only choices are not a) standing in front of a heavyweight, or b) risky infighting. There are defensive moves that can be employed from a distance convenient to the fighter. The key is to look for openings while you're employing your defense.
b) Smaller guys are obviously a lot more agile than 6'7'' giants, so using quick head movement/slick countering/ect is more commonplace in those weight divisions.
Small guys will be quicker, yes. Matter of physics. But there's been plenty of big guys who have been adept at defensive styles that suit their size. Defense with the purpose of positioning yourself for offense.
c) Pernell, Mayweather and Benitez were (and are) very much "safety first" guys. Like Wlad, they chose their punches wisely and rarely ever got out of their comfort zones.
"Safety first" or not, these all-time greats used a variety of defensive moves. They ducked under punches and went to the body... they knew how to use the shoulder to deflect punches... they had quick reflexes, which enabled them to move out of the way of punches without losing their balance and remaining in the position to strike back.
3. I think it's hypocritical to slam Wlad's defense and praise Ali. When it comes to Ali, people seem to remember his career in convenient HL reels: him KOing Foreman, beating down Liston, duking it out with Frazier in Manilla. Truth is, Ali stunk out plenty of arenas with his dancing, "jab and run" style. People remember the first and third Frazier fight, but no one seems to recall the 2nd fight where Ali pioneered the "jab and grab" style (later perfected by John Ruiz) and put everyone to sleep. Ali had a great beard, but hated to get hit (like any rational human being) and largely fought a "safety first" style. Same as Wlad.
Ali could be TOTALLY maddening at times, with his grabbing and holding behind the head. Some of his fights could be rather frustrating for fans. But once again, he never looked scared or out of control in there. And when faced with flurries from the opponent, he also had a variety of defensive maneuvers he performed very well.
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Re: When has Wlad taken a flush shot and survived? (Post video clips)
A few issues with your response:
1. I think it's a tad nitpicky to tell a guy who has 50 KO's in 59 wins that he should have an even better KO percentage. It's kinda like making a girl cum twice and then having her say you should have went longer. Especially when you have guys like Ray Mercer on your stoppage list (first guy ever to drop Mercer with a head shot, first guy to stop Mercer). Wlad's opposition hasn't been bad.
2. Wlad must be looking for and finding openings. You don't stop 50 of 59 guys by not looking for openings.
3. I think you're a) being too hard on ol' Dr. Steelhammer and b) to forgiving to those you mentioned. They had great offensive moments, but also played it safe much more than Wlad.
Wlad isn't an exciting guy to watch usually. But he's perfected his style and fights the way he should to win fights and minimize damage. It's not going to draw people to the arenas like Tyson did, but in the end the game is about hitting and not getting hit. The greats all did it well and so does Wlad.
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Re: When has Wlad taken a flush shot and survived? (Post video clips)
PRIME Ali, sticking and moving, holding... obviously Ali moves with a hell of a lot more footspeed and grace than Wlad, but tell me how it's any more "offensive minded" than what Wlad does? (this goes to anybody because Ali ALWAYS gets brought up in these Wlad discussions). Look at all the counter opportunities that go by. Look at him jumping away from punches and not responding. Yet he's the greatest and Wlad is a bum :confused:
Tell me Muhammad is making more of an effort for the KO than Wlad.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFFDe9FQL3s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5n6zyiavTI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pjCvY64Qy8
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Re: When has Wlad taken a flush shot and survived? (Post video clips)
I have to agree with you bean because its not like Wlad does not finish fights he just takes his time. Which is not bad if you are getting the win while taking no damage and knocking the guy out.
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Re: When has Wlad taken a flush shot and survived? (Post video clips)
Hey, what more can you ask for?
And you can't blame a guy for being cautious. This isn't a sport that's kind to losers. It's been proven over and over again that you can spend YEARS being a great in the sport, but the second you lose you're an over-rated bum.
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Re: When has Wlad taken a flush shot and survived? (Post video clips)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
A few issues with your response:
1. I think it's a tad nitpicky to tell a guy who has 50 KO's in 59 wins that he should have an even better KO percentage. It's kinda like making a girl cum twice and then having her say you should have went longer. Especially when you have guys like Ray Mercer on your stoppage list (first guy ever to drop Mercer with a head shot, first guy to stop Mercer). Wlad's opposition hasn't been bad.
2. Wlad must be looking for and finding openings. You don't stop 50 of 59 guys by not looking for openings.
3. I think you're a) being too hard on ol' Dr. Steelhammer and b) to forgiving to those you mentioned. They had great offensive moments, but also played it safe much more than Wlad.
Wlad isn't an exciting guy to watch usually. But he's perfected his style and fights the way he should to win fights and minimize damage. It's not going to draw people to the arenas like Tyson did, but in the end the game is about hitting and not getting hit. The greats all did it well and so does Wlad.
I like your example on # 1 ;D.
But if I may add my own twist to it and draw a parallel with Wlad's opponents...
You made the girl cum twice, but she's a nymphomaniac who will climax at a stiff breeze up her skirt. One might say you should've provoked at least a dozen orgasms.
Maybe I'm being tough on Wlad. But boxing like any other sport depends on fans. And while there's plenty of fans who will appreciate a methodical (albeit very jittery) defense, and will also emphasize purely on the numbers.... there's also plenty of fans who watch boxing to see fighters engage with the intent on doing bodily harm. It's not that you have to walk in face first. But the great ones incorporate a lot more offense than Wlad seems to do. Remember... the quality and mindset of Wlad's opponents must be taken into consideration in these discussions.
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Re: When has Wlad taken a flush shot and survived? (Post video clips)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Hey, what more can you ask for?
And you can't blame a guy for being cautious. This isn't a sport that's kind to losers. It's been proven over and over again that you can spend YEARS being a great in the sport, but the second you lose you're an over-rated bum.
Then why should I watch him?
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Re: When has Wlad taken a flush shot and survived? (Post video clips)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
A few issues with your response:
1. I think it's a tad nitpicky to tell a guy who has 50 KO's in 59 wins that he should have an even better KO percentage. It's kinda like making a girl cum twice and then having her say you should have went longer. Especially when you have guys like Ray Mercer on your stoppage list (first guy ever to drop Mercer with a head shot, first guy to stop Mercer). Wlad's opposition hasn't been bad.
2. Wlad must be looking for and finding openings. You don't stop 50 of 59 guys by not looking for openings.
3. I think you're a) being too hard on ol' Dr. Steelhammer and b) to forgiving to those you mentioned. They had great offensive moments, but also played it safe much more than Wlad.
Wlad isn't an exciting guy to watch usually. But he's perfected his style and fights the way he should to win fights and minimize damage. It's not going to draw people to the arenas like Tyson did, but in the end the game is about hitting and not getting hit. The greats all did it well and so does Wlad.
I like your example on # 1 ;D.
But if I may add my own twist to it and draw a parallel with Wlad's opponents...
You made the girl cum twice, but she's a nymphomaniac who will climax at a stiff breeze up her skirt. One might say you should've provoked at least a dozen orgasms.
Maybe I'm being tough on Wlad. But boxing like any other sport depends on fans. And while there's plenty of fans who will appreciate a methodical (albeit very jittery) defense, and will also emphasize purely on the numbers.... there's also plenty of fans who watch boxing to see fighters engage with the intent on doing bodily harm. It's not that you have to walk in face first. But the great ones incorporate a lot more offense than Wlad seems to do. Remember... the quality
and mindset of Wlad's opponents must be taken into consideration in these discussions.
You're not being tough on Wlad. You're just hating on him. One look at his record shows Wlad has failed to stop only 5 of the fighters he beat. Botowamungu, Haye, Williamson, Ibragimov and Wach. Botowamungu was purposely DQ by his own corner. Williamson headbutted him on purpose. Haye and Ibragimov fought like cowards. And Wach just wouldn't go down. Either way failing to stop only 5 of opponents faced is damn good. What more muthafukkas want?
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Re: When has Wlad taken a flush shot and survived? (Post video clips)
He'll continue not to take them if that mentioned match with a 40 yr old Fres Oquendo happens :p
At this rate it smells like he is just running up the numbers :-X
And Bean Holyfield dropped Mercer off a left hook, 7 yrs before Wlad fought his shadow. And I like Wlad, I do.
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Re: When has Wlad taken a flush shot and survived? (Post video clips)
Brockton Block Buster blows them all away within 13 rounds.
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Re: When has Wlad taken a flush shot and survived? (Post video clips)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
brocktonblockbust
Brockton Block Buster blows them all away within 13 rounds.
He wouldn't even beat Jameel McCline
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Re: When has Wlad taken a flush shot and survived? (Post video clips)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
A few issues with your response:
1. I think it's a tad nitpicky to tell a guy who has 50 KO's in 59 wins that he should have an even better KO percentage. It's kinda like making a girl cum twice and then having her say you should have went longer. Especially when you have guys like Ray Mercer on your stoppage list (first guy ever to drop Mercer with a head shot, first guy to stop Mercer). Wlad's opposition hasn't been bad.
2. Wlad must be looking for and finding openings. You don't stop 50 of 59 guys by not looking for openings.
3. I think you're a) being too hard on ol' Dr. Steelhammer and b) to forgiving to those you mentioned. They had great offensive moments, but also played it safe much more than Wlad.
Wlad isn't an exciting guy to watch usually. But he's perfected his style and fights the way he should to win fights and minimize damage. It's not going to draw people to the arenas like Tyson did, but in the end the game is about hitting and not getting hit. The greats all did it well and so does Wlad.
I like your example on # 1 ;D.
But if I may add my own twist to it and draw a parallel with Wlad's opponents...
You made the girl cum twice, but she's a nymphomaniac who will climax at a stiff breeze up her skirt. One might say you should've provoked at least a dozen orgasms.
Maybe I'm being tough on Wlad. But boxing like any other sport depends on fans. And while there's plenty of fans who will appreciate a methodical (albeit very jittery) defense, and will also emphasize purely on the numbers.... there's also plenty of fans who watch boxing to see fighters engage with the intent on doing bodily harm. It's not that you have to walk in face first. But the great ones incorporate a lot more offense than Wlad seems to do. Remember... the quality
and mindset of Wlad's opponents must be taken into consideration in these discussions.
You're not being tough on Wlad. You're just hating on him. One look at his record shows Wlad has failed to stop only 5 of the fighters he beat. Botowamungu, Haye, Williamson, Ibragimov and Wach. Botowamungu was purposely DQ by his own corner. Williamson headbutted him on purpose.
Haye and Ibragimov fought like cowards. And Wach just wouldn't go down. Either way failing to stop only 5 of opponents faced is damn good. What more muthafukkas want?
It takes two to tango.
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Re: When has Wlad taken a flush shot and survived? (Post video clips)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
A few issues with your response:
1. I think it's a tad nitpicky to tell a guy who has 50 KO's in 59 wins that he should have an even better KO percentage. It's kinda like making a girl cum twice and then having her say you should have went longer. Especially when you have guys like Ray Mercer on your stoppage list (first guy ever to drop Mercer with a head shot, first guy to stop Mercer). Wlad's opposition hasn't been bad.
2. Wlad must be looking for and finding openings. You don't stop 50 of 59 guys by not looking for openings.
3. I think you're a) being too hard on ol' Dr. Steelhammer and b) to forgiving to those you mentioned. They had great offensive moments, but also played it safe much more than Wlad.
Wlad isn't an exciting guy to watch usually. But he's perfected his style and fights the way he should to win fights and minimize damage. It's not going to draw people to the arenas like Tyson did, but in the end the game is about hitting and not getting hit. The greats all did it well and so does Wlad.
I like your example on # 1 ;D.
But if I may add my own twist to it and draw a parallel with Wlad's opponents...
You made the girl cum twice, but she's a nymphomaniac who will climax at a stiff breeze up her skirt. One might say you should've provoked at least a dozen orgasms.
Maybe I'm being tough on Wlad. But boxing like any other sport depends on fans. And while there's plenty of fans who will appreciate a methodical (albeit very jittery) defense, and will also emphasize purely on the numbers.... there's also plenty of fans who watch boxing to see fighters engage with the intent on doing bodily harm. It's not that you have to walk in face first. But the great ones incorporate a lot more offense than Wlad seems to do. Remember... the quality
and mindset of Wlad's opponents must be taken into consideration in these discussions.
You're not being tough on Wlad. You're just hating on him. One look at his record shows Wlad has failed to stop only 5 of the fighters he beat. Botowamungu, Haye, Williamson, Ibragimov and Wach. Botowamungu was purposely DQ by his own corner. Williamson headbutted him on purpose.
Haye and Ibragimov fought like cowards. And Wach just wouldn't go down. Either way failing to stop only 5 of opponents faced is damn good. What more muthafukkas want?
It takes two to tango.
When your opponent is quick to drop to his knees every time he's in trouble it's hard to score a knock out. Any heavyweight would have a hard time getting a stoppage in that situation
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Re: When has Wlad taken a flush shot and survived? (Post video clips)
Like i said earlier if the opinion is that when Wlad is hit cleanly on the chin he gets knocked out , then he has lost only 3 fights , so he is the best defensive fighter in boxing history. The stats say that hit 3 times flush in 59 fights , those are the haters stats im using.
and all these who say well why should I watch him he is boring , im sure Wlad is gutted you dont want to watch him lol.
Yes he had a dodgy chin , yes he can be boring , but he has power and he is always in shape , so like him or loathe him he is what he is.
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Re: When has Wlad taken a flush shot and survived? (Post video clips)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
A few issues with your response:
1. I think it's a tad nitpicky to tell a guy who has 50 KO's in 59 wins that he should have an even better KO percentage. It's kinda like making a girl cum twice and then having her say you should have went longer. Especially when you have guys like Ray Mercer on your stoppage list (first guy ever to drop Mercer with a head shot, first guy to stop Mercer). Wlad's opposition hasn't been bad.
2. Wlad must be looking for and finding openings. You don't stop 50 of 59 guys by not looking for openings.
3. I think you're a) being too hard on ol' Dr. Steelhammer and b) to forgiving to those you mentioned. They had great offensive moments, but also played it safe much more than Wlad.
Wlad isn't an exciting guy to watch usually. But he's perfected his style and fights the way he should to win fights and minimize damage. It's not going to draw people to the arenas like Tyson did, but in the end the game is about hitting and not getting hit. The greats all did it well and so does Wlad.
I like your example on # 1 ;D.
But if I may add my own twist to it and draw a parallel with Wlad's opponents...
You made the girl cum twice, but she's a nymphomaniac who will climax at a stiff breeze up her skirt. One might say you should've provoked at least a dozen orgasms.
Maybe I'm being tough on Wlad. But boxing like any other sport depends on fans. And while there's plenty of fans who will appreciate a methodical (albeit very jittery) defense, and will also emphasize purely on the numbers.... there's also plenty of fans who watch boxing to see fighters engage with the intent on doing bodily harm. It's not that you have to walk in face first. But the great ones incorporate a lot more offense than Wlad seems to do. Remember... the quality
and mindset of Wlad's opponents must be taken into consideration in these discussions.
You're not being tough on Wlad. You're just hating on him. One look at his record shows Wlad has failed to stop only 5 of the fighters he beat. Botowamungu, Haye, Williamson, Ibragimov and Wach. Botowamungu was purposely DQ by his own corner. Williamson headbutted him on purpose.
Haye and Ibragimov fought like cowards. And Wach just wouldn't go down. Either way failing to stop only 5 of opponents faced is damn good. What more muthafukkas want?
It takes two to tango.
When your opponent is quick to drop to his knees every time he's in trouble it's hard to score a knock out. Any heavyweight would have a hard time getting a stoppage in that situation
Obviously you're not referring to the Ibragimov fight.
Ibragimov's reluctance to engage Wlad was only matched by Wlad's fear of getting tagged by the supposedly lethal left hand.
When someone says "paw-fest", I immediately think of the Wlad-Ibragimov fight.
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Re: When has Wlad taken a flush shot and survived? (Post video clips)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YChRIDAuA80
Watch from 2:35, Wlad gets tagged because he tries to paw Wachs hands away and Wach just comes through the middle.
Wlad Struggles, but survives. Wach is a decent puncher being 7(7)-0-0 in his last 7 fights before this, so not a bad feat.
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Re: When has Wlad taken a flush shot and survived? (Post video clips)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TysonBomb
Then why should I watch him?
Because you're not a superficial "blood and guts" mongoloid. Your tastes are too refined to bother caring about two unskilled brawlers giving each other level 4 concussions.
You respect the sport of boxing and enjoy the sweet science at it's finest level. You understand that the sport of boxing is human chess, not human cockfighting.
When so called boxing "fans" don't appreciate and respect the sweet science, you say "hey buddy, if you wanna see two bums slugging it out, go to your local bar on a Friday night."
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Re: When has Wlad taken a flush shot and survived? (Post video clips)
Here is Haye fighting like a "coward" and nonetheless catching Wlad. Check out 0:50. Wlad is not easy to blow over and yes Haye nuts taste nice, like petuli oil. If he had kept his Afro he would be one bad MoFo.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51o7RksA__o
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Re: When has Wlad taken a flush shot and survived? (Post video clips)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TysonBomb
Then why should I watch him?
Because you're not a superficial "blood and guts" mongoloid. Your tastes are too refined to bother caring about two unskilled brawlers giving each other level 4 concussions.
You respect the sport of boxing and enjoy the sweet science at it's finest level. You understand that the sport of boxing is
human chess, not
human cockfighting.
When so called boxing "fans" don't appreciate and respect the sweet science, you say "hey buddy, if you wanna see two bums slugging it out, go to your local bar on a Friday night."
jab jab grab takes little skill, at least the way the klits use it
people want to see athleticism, knockouts, skill, speed, not jab jab grab and then back peddle
