Why did Harry Carpenter call Ali his slave name Cassius Clay?

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Originally Posted by bradlee180

The Great Muhammad Ali...
...changed his name in a somewhat-misguided protest, I think.

"Clay was my slave-name; I am no longer a slave." - Muhammad Ali
RE: The slave-owner's family name was given to his slaves as a sign of his ownership of them.

So Cassius Marcellus Clay junior did away with the slave-name and was given the name Muhammad Ali when he switched religions to Islam.

However...
Ali's father was Cassius Marcellus Clay senior.
Cassius Marcellus Clay senior's grandfather grew up on the property of the original Cassius Marcellus Clay (b 1810- d 1903), a white man and aristocrat and one of the great EMANCIPATIONISTS of history!

The original Cassius Marcellus Clay was born into one of the wealthiest families of land-owners/slave-owners in the state of Kentucky.
In Clay's decades-long crusade to end slavery, Clay's life was threatened many, many times.
Guy had friends in high places too including being a personal friend of Abraham Lincoln, and relatives that were members of the the Senate and he was related to a Governor too.

This man sacrificed so much in his quest to end slavery, and it was a quest that he was in for the long haul: Clay first joined the Abolitionist Movement in about 1831 or thereabouts, and saw it through to the end of slavery in America in 1865.

Sheesh, you'd think Muhammad Ali would've been proud to have carried this man's name.
The name, Cassius Marcellus Clay, is a symbol of the fight to end slavery, of fighting for liberty, but Ali simply said it was his slave-name and did away with it, and took a Middle Eastern name instead.

If Ali wanted to pay homage to his African roots, he should've went African, not Middle Eastern.

Why Islam by the way too?

If Ali was shooting for getting back to his African roots, why not go with a traditional African religion instead?
There's actually more Christians in Africa than there are disciples of Islam.
Christianity and Islam are the two dominant religions in Africa, but both religions spread into Africa from elsewhere.
Christianity has been in Africa longer than Islam has too.
Why didn't Ali go with a traditional African religion if he was shooting for African roots and heritage....?

About that name-change though: :)

An 1800s man spends much of his life fighting the very fabric of America, taking a very unpopular stance at the time at great physical peril to himself, all to free the slaves and give them liberty and what does he get?:
Ali dismisses that Great name as a slave-name and says "I'm no longer a slave."
Thankless bastard, eh?!


Perhaps Muhammad Ali should have taken a Celtic name instead and got involved in the religious wars (Protestants and Catholics) there too in honor of his Irish roots as well; there's lots of white blood in Muhammad Ali.
Ali's great-grandfather, Abe Grady, was an Irish immigrant from Ennis. That's why Ali's beloved mother, Odessa Grady Clay, looks so white; she took after her Irish grandfather.
Certainly a lot more white blood in Ali than there is in say Joe Frazier for instance...
Now there's a real black man through-and-through, and a proud man, and a man who grew up pickin' cotton in the racially-segregated deep South.
Smokin' Joe and his family definitely had it a helluva lot harder with the poverty and racism than Ali's relatively easier, more comfortable upbringing in Kentucky.

Then Joe becomes Champ and is the victim of further racism by a member of his own race: Ali.

"Lite-Brite, almost white!", I hear ya, Joe...

Yep, Irish.
Why not Muhammad Grady then...or Sheamus Ali or Muhammad O'Reilly instead or some such like if he wanted to change his name to honor his heritage?


In addition, the Irish were also treated very harshly in Europe; the English didn't think of them as being human.
The English were in control, but they let thousands upon thousands of Irish basically starve to death during The Great Potato Famine. The English could've helped, but said why?

The Irish didn't get much better treatment in their early days in America either. About 70 thousand Irish were slaves in America, but they didn't make for as good a slave because the Irish were too much trouble.
Yeah, black people had it hard in America in the late 1800s, but so did the Irish. And also the Native Americans of course.
All were perceived as second-class citizens, viewed as not even being human; it's funny that they all started inter-marrying.

HAH HAH HAH !
I really get a kick out of that for some reason.
:lickish:

Civil rights?
Ali fought the gov't for about 4 years from 1967 to 1971 and ultimately won.
The original Cassius Marcellus Clay fought the gov't and the system and the very fabric of 1800s America for over 30 years and ultimately won.


Cassius Marcellus Clay/abolitionist, also had one other thing in common with Cassius Marcellus Clay/Muhammad Ali:
In 1894, at about 83 years old, Clay was boinking a 15 year-old named Dora Richardson whom he married.


It didn't last...

;)

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:cool:

Someone with money and class , he doesnt have to tell you.
End of lesson.

They say peasents roam in groups....bless...have a good day scum bags...what u up 2 today....going down the local to forget all your worries...lol....fools!!!!

job biscuit (going to Harrod...buying something expensive just because)!!!


eh eh!!


eh eh!!!

To be fair Patterson called him Clay , during the fight he kept shouting -

" whats my name " ! , "whats my name " ! to Floyd as he punished him.

So even he wasnt sure ;D

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Originally Posted by Otley

They say peasents roam in groups....bless...have a good day scum bags...what u up 2 today....going down the local to forget all your worries...lol....fools!!!!

job biscuit (going to Harrod...buying something expensive just because)!!!


eh eh!!


eh eh!!!

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Dont you mean Harrods ?

If one shops in Harrods it does, NOT make one a GENTLEMAN, sorry broken biscuits.;D

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Originally Posted by Otley

U need to calm down u
eh eh!!!

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Originally Posted by Otley

what u up 2 today.... eh eh!!


eh eh!!!

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Originally Posted by Otley

I bet u wish u was me... eh eh!!!

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Etc etc

Job Biscuit (twat types worse than the gutter scum he's dribbling about)
Eh eh!!

Careful fellow Peasents, we are clearly dealing with a highly educated nobleman of culture and class... :vd: :-X

Is 'Harrod' a bootleg version of Harrod's? Do you drive down in your Roylls Rice car?
Is your name Sir Digsby Chicken Caesar?

This is who your whittering rambling is making you sound like:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QACSo5xk3dE

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

There's posters on this forum who refer to Ali as Cassius Clay.

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Indeed there are ;D

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Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

There's posters on this forum who refer to Ali as Cassius Clay.

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Indeed there are ;D

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There you are.... ;D

'Bout time you showed up.

Ok peasents...I don't want to make u jealous from your sad weekend but I have just bought myself a new car....that's right...got a brand new camaro...yep a lovely spanking new C-A-M-A-R-O.....read and weep....lol

i bet u lot are happy just getting a 10p coupon off a tin of happy shopper beanz....lol


job biscuit (shit hot CAMAROOooo)!!!


eh eh!!

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Originally Posted by Otley

Ok peasents...I don't want to make u jealous from your sad weekend but I have just bought myself a new car....that's right...got a brand new camaro...yep a lovely spanking new C-A-M-A-R-O.....read and weep....lol

i bet u lot are happy just getting a 10p coupon off a tin of happy shopper beanz....lol


job biscuit (shit hot CAMAROOooo)!!!


eh eh!!

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What a frightfully insecure little turd you must be. New Camaros are shit ugly and tasteless as well, I'm sure it'll be a great fit though.

lol...the only classic car your going to get is from a matchbox...lol...CAMARO....in your face...looks good beside the Porche and the Jaguar....lol


job biscuit (it's open roof...looking good)!!!!


eh eh!!!

I wonder if Ali had a Camaro...i bet he did....class guy!!!

Job Biscuit (Arizona Red)!!!


eh eh!!

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Originally Posted by Otley

lol...the only classic car your going to get is from a matchbox...lol...CAMARO....in your face...looks good beside the Porche and the Jaguar....lol


job biscuit (it's open roof...looking good)!!!!


eh eh!!!

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Christs sake man, check yourself into a nut house or something.

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Originally Posted by p4pking

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Originally Posted by Otley

lol...the only classic car your going to get is from a matchbox...lol...CAMARO....in your face...looks good beside the Porche and the Jaguar....lol


job biscuit (it's open roof...looking good)!!!!


eh eh!!!

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Christs sake man, check yourself into a nut house or something.

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The only place I want get checked into is on the cover of OK Magazine....cause like you & the rest of the unprivileged on here you want to be me and want to know what a brilliant life I have...u need someone to follow and that's me to forget about your sub normal life....keep it real.......and stop kidding yourself.....u know it...I know it...that's all


job biscuit (sad but true...but u really r sad)!!!!



eh eh!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9mwq6yhweQ


sweet....looks lovely dosn't it


job biscuit (I will probably get bored of it and keep it in the garage)!!!



eh eh!!!!

You end each of your dire posts with some sort of spastic outburst, you honestly think that anybody is able to take an insult from you seriously or to heart?

:-X

brb, posting a picture of a 747

Job Biscuit (because googling a picture or video proves that I own one!)
Eh eh eh eh eh!!

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Originally Posted by AdamGB

brb, posting a picture of a 747

Job Biscuit (because googling a picture or video proves that I own one!)
Eh eh eh eh eh!!

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U can believe whatever u want....I do and I will...so get use to it.....jealous of me....u need to get a real job and get some 50p's for your telly......and stop flipping burgers for a living....oh yer and GROW up.....lol


job biscuit (loving it)!!!



eh eh!!!

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Originally Posted by Otley

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Originally Posted by p4pking

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Originally Posted by Otley

lol...the only classic car your going to get is from a matchbox...lol...CAMARO....in your face...looks good beside the Porche and the Jaguar....lol


job biscuit (it's open roof...looking good)!!!!


eh eh!!!

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Christs sake man, check yourself into a nut house or something.

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The only place I want get checked into is on the cover of OK Magazine....cause like you & the rest of the unprivileged on here you want to be me and want to know what a brilliant life I have...u need someone to follow and that's me to forget about your sub normal life....keep it real.......and stop kidding yourself.....u know it...I know it...that's all


job biscuit (sad but true...but u really r sad)!!!!



eh eh!!!

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Sigh.... All I know, is that you reveal much more about yourself posting like that than you could possibly know about me, or most anyone else on here I'd imagine. What possible reason do you have to assume I'm underpriviledged? If you are in fact well off financially, you clearly have an enormous inferiority/intellecual complex which more than negates anything material in terms of having any class, you imbecile.

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Originally Posted by p4pking

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Originally Posted by Otley

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Originally Posted by p4pking

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Originally Posted by Otley

lol...the only classic car your going to get is from a matchbox...lol...CAMARO....in your face...looks good beside the Porche and the Jaguar....lol


job biscuit (it's open roof...looking good)!!!!


eh eh!!!

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Christs sake man, check yourself into a nut house or something.

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The only place I want get checked into is on the cover of OK Magazine....cause like you & the rest of the unprivileged on here you want to be me and want to know what a brilliant life I have...u need someone to follow and that's me to forget about your sub normal life....keep it real.......and stop kidding yourself.....u know it...I know it...that's all


job biscuit (sad but true...but u really r sad)!!!!



eh eh!!!

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Sigh.... All I know, is that you reveal much more about yourself posting like that than you could possibly know about me, or most anyone else on here I'd imagine. What possible reason do you have to assume I'm underpriviledged? If you are in fact well off financially, you clearly have an enormous inferiority/intellecual complex which more than negates anything material in terms of having any class, you imbecile.

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lol...I'm playing with u......and u r biting....lol......it says a lot indeed abt u......u have nothing on me.....frigging space cadet.......u foolish manchild.........lol

look....go into your kitchen (if u have one)....pick up the biggest pan and look at the bottom of it...what do u see....thats rite....u should see a reflection of your face....hollow......spooner!!!!


job biscuit (like rats going to slaiughter)!!!!




eh eh!!!!

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Originally Posted by Otley

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Originally Posted by AdamGB

brb, posting a picture of a 747

Job Biscuit (because googling a picture or video proves that I own one!)
Eh eh eh eh eh!!

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U can believe whatever u want....I do and I will...so get use to it.....jealous of me....u need to get a real job and get some 50p's for your telly......and stop flipping burgers for a living....oh yer and GROW up.....lol


job biscuit (loving it)!!!



eh eh!!!

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Flipping burgers? ??? Okay... I'm not really sure where you're trying to go with that one? You've lost me I'm afraid? I think I'm meant to be insulted but I'm just perplexed and mildly amused by your continued self imploding rambling.

I'm going to try and help you out, because whatever you're trying to go here just isn't working:

You can't just create a fictional different job for me and then insult it and expect me to be in the slightest bit bothered... I really don't care what you think of the imaginary job change that you've given me. I'm trying really hard to humour you and be insulted by your post but I can't, sorry.

This is basic stuff Otley... Come on.

Here's another tip:
It would be a lot easier to try and act like your confused dribble was a cleverly contrived ruse or troll if you didn't trip up over simple words like 'your', 'dosn't', 'u' and 'yer'.

Another:
Nobody takes an insult seriously from somebody who ends every post with a spasticated Jimmy Savile outburst.

Last one:
The 'Lord of the Manor' act would be a lot more convincing if you didn't appear to be trying too hard/had some class/didn't type like a 13 year old sending a txt message etc

Hope this helps.

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Originally Posted by Otley

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Originally Posted by p4pking

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Originally Posted by Otley

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Originally Posted by p4pking

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Originally Posted by Otley

lol...the only classic car your going to get is from a matchbox...lol...CAMARO....in your face...looks good beside the Porche and the Jaguar....lol


job biscuit (it's open roof...looking good)!!!!


eh eh!!!

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Christs sake man, check yourself into a nut house or something.

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The only place I want get checked into is on the cover of OK Magazine....cause like you & the rest of the unprivileged on here you want to be me and want to know what a brilliant life I have...u need someone to follow and that's me to forget about your sub normal life....keep it real.......and stop kidding yourself.....u know it...I know it...that's all


job biscuit (sad but true...but u really r sad)!!!!



eh eh!!!

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Sigh.... All I know, is that you reveal much more about yourself posting like that than you could possibly know about me, or most anyone else on here I'd imagine. What possible reason do you have to assume I'm underpriviledged? If you are in fact well off financially, you clearly have an enormous inferiority/intellecual complex which more than negates anything material in terms of having any class, you imbecile.

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lol...I'm playing with u......and u r biting....lol......it says a lot indeed abt u......u have nothing on me.....frigging space cadet.......u foolish manchild.........lol

look....go into your kitchen (if u have one)....pick up the biggest pan and look at the bottom of it...what do u see....thats rite....u should see a reflection of your face....hollow......spooner!!!!


job biscuit (like rats going to slaiughter)!!!!




eh eh!!!!

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You are an absolute waste of time. Hope things shape up for you though man, there's always hope.

Is anybody reminded of that little shit from the antiques roadshow who acted like he was little lord faunltaroy (but lived in a council flat...) when Otley tries to be a wealthy and cultured gentleman and look down on us peasents?

Lauren (James) Harries on Wogan + The Priory - YouTube

Searched for a video to show him how ridiculous he looks and I think I may have caught him/her red handed!

Is it a coinincidence that during an interview about his sex change, the wannabe sophisticated man of wealth went on a mental tirade and then puncuated it with, drumroll......

"Eh eh eh"

Lauren Harries flashback to her going mental at Holly and Phil - This Morning - YouTube

I'm about pretty sure it's him guys

Very weird? Check
Thinks it's sophisticated and wealthy? Check
To busy being bullied in school to learn to spell? Check
Ends sentences 'eh eh eh'? Check

Either that or he's Anne from Little Britain

Ann- Little Britain "Feeding the ducks" - YouTube

Eh eh eeeeeh!

Otley is being ass raped.

It is with deep regret Mr Otley has been sectioned under the Mental health and will be away for quite some time.

I would like to apologies for his behaviour and I am sure in time when he recovers he will apologies in person.

Any Get Well wishes will be most grateful

With Regret
Mrs Otley

job biscuit (hope he gets better soon)!!!


eh eh!!!

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Originally Posted by Master

Otley is being ass raped.

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Otley is a happy boy then I would imagine

Harry Carpenter,

It is easy for me to say Cassius. Being a slave had nothing to do with it.

Bill Paxton,

An annoying "haemorrhoid" if there ever was one

He will always be Clay in my eyes , just because he was brainwashed by the nation of islam doesn't make him another person.

When you look at him,

You just know he's a Cassius.

When he opened up those 'rotten' fast food joints 'Champburgers', there
wasn't one thing on the Menu called 'Muhammad' or 'Ali'.

He did have 'Cassius Clay's Chicken Bucket' though.

Seems that old Cassius was a 'businessman' first, and Muhammad Ali second.

Mr. Clay was never a slave, he might have picked cotton, chopped cotton, or hung tobacco for wages but doubt it. He wouldn't even submit to the draft, so tell me how can you call Cassius Clay a slave name.
Cassius Marcellus Clay Sr. was named after Cassius Marcellus Clay, a white abolitionist. Mr. Clay Sr. was apparently proud enough of the name to pass it on, so tell me why was Cassius Clay considered a slave name.

Cassius Clay was the one that said his name was a 'slave name'.

Nobody else did.

He wanted to case a stir, because he was a 'publicity hound'.

Remember this,

It's easy to become recognized, all you have to do is act like 'an asshole'.