Re: Give Bernard Hopkins his just due!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bigstinkybug
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bigstinkybug
[COLOR="darkred
Hopkins has made his name beating B fighters... every name fighter he fought, he lost to... Cal..Roy Jones.. Dawson... [/COLOR]
Unfortunatley for Hopkins he couldn't dig up the prime corpses of a Hagler or Hearns and that cannot be held against him. You play the hand you are dealt. He beat, literally, every Ring ranked middleweight as a champion save for a Swede. What did he fail in the big picture to do that the same Jones, Calzaghe etc did? He beat up a run of mandatorys just as Roy. Joe beat up a shot ghost in Roy, and had a debatable win over Hopkins...feel free to hang your hat on that if ya want. He cleaned out a division...then he jumped up and set records then broke them.
Tito was a legitimate middle after thrashing Joppy from pillar to post and a heavy favorite v Hopkins and that fight alone was being billed as the best middle unification since a Hagler-Leonard. Literally. And being honest Dawson is but a name in his own household but the fact is we are talking about Bernard before, during and after him now. Dawson had to twice fight guys who Hopkins literally dominated but once.
*If u think Tito was a legitimate middleweight... then nothing i say will make a difference.
Was Robinson a legitimate middleweight? This ubiquitous myth that Tito was a welterweight fighting a middleweight needs to go the way of the dodo bird. Its one of the biggest crocks of shit continuously seen on forums and in press lines. I'm one of the biggest Tito fans on the planet and hated Hopkins at that time but the weight issue is ludicrous.
Re: Give Bernard Hopkins his just due!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Was Robinson a legitimate middleweight? This ubiquitous myth that Tito was a welterweight fighting a middleweight needs to go the way of the dodo bird. Its one of the biggest crocks of shit continuously seen on forums and in press lines. I'm one of the biggest Tito fans on the planet and hated Hopkins at that time but the weight issue is ludicrous.
Gotta agree with this. Hopkins had a size advantage, that's undeniable, but I don't see why people act like this wasn't a dangerous/meaningful fight for Hopkins. Tito fought a legit, BIG middleweight in Joppy and steamrolled him with his vicious power that CLEARLY carried up to MW.
How is it any difference than Marvin Hagler beating Tommy Hearns, who (I think) was in his first middleweight fight - TOTALLY unproven at 160.
Re: Give Bernard Hopkins his just due!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Was Robinson a legitimate middleweight? This ubiquitous myth that Tito was a welterweight fighting a middleweight needs to go the way of the dodo bird. Its one of the biggest crocks of shit continuously seen on forums and in press lines. I'm one of the biggest Tito fans on the planet and hated Hopkins at that time but the weight issue is ludicrous.
Gotta agree with this. Hopkins had a size advantage, that's undeniable, but I don't see why people act like this wasn't a dangerous/meaningful fight for Hopkins. Tito fought a legit, BIG middleweight in Joppy and steamrolled him with his vicious power that CLEARLY carried up to MW.
How is it any difference than Marvin Hagler beating Tommy Hearns, who (I think) was in his first middleweight fight - TOTALLY unproven at 160.
Hop started at 175. He's a big boned middle but was not an overly big middle. He was actually the last natural middle since probably Greb or perhaps Burley. In the Tito fight I think he weighed in at 159 if memory serves and 162 on fight night. Tito was close to 170 on fight night. The notion that Hopkins beat up some shrimp is like saying when Hagler beat Mugabi he did the same. Tito like Mugabi was doing fine at 154 because they were simply bigger and stronger the night of the fight. Its ironic that people make such a big deal about weight in this 17 division time knowing full well how its abused. Does anyone here actually believe that Morales was a 122 pound fighter?
Re: Give Bernard Hopkins his just due!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bigstinkybug
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bigstinkybug
[COLOR="darkred
Hopkins has made his name beating B fighters... every name fighter he fought, he lost to... Cal..Roy Jones.. Dawson... [/COLOR]
Unfortunatley for Hopkins he couldn't dig up the prime corpses of a Hagler or Hearns and that cannot be held against him. You play the hand you are dealt. He beat, literally, every Ring ranked middleweight as a champion save for a Swede. What did he fail in the big picture to do that the same Jones, Calzaghe etc did? He beat up a run of mandatorys just as Roy. Joe beat up a shot ghost in Roy, and had a debatable win over Hopkins...feel free to hang your hat on that if ya want. He cleaned out a division...then he jumped up and set records then broke them.
Tito was a legitimate middle after thrashing Joppy from pillar to post and a heavy favorite v Hopkins and that fight alone was being billed as the best middle unification since a Hagler-Leonard. Literally. And being honest Dawson is but a name in his own household but the fact is we are talking about Bernard before, during and after him now. Dawson had to twice fight guys who Hopkins literally dominated but once.
*If u think Tito was a legitimate middleweight... then nothing i say will make a difference.
The #2 p4p fighter in the world moving up demolishing grade A fighters and destroying Rings number 2 middleweight in a recongnized middleweight tourney to determine a unified champion while being the betting favorite? Passes the smell test here.
Re: Give Bernard Hopkins his just due!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Was Robinson a legitimate middleweight? This ubiquitous myth that Tito was a welterweight fighting a middleweight needs to go the way of the dodo bird. Its one of the biggest crocks of shit continuously seen on forums and in press lines. I'm one of the biggest Tito fans on the planet and hated Hopkins at that time but the weight issue is ludicrous.
Gotta agree with this. Hopkins had a size advantage, that's undeniable, but I don't see why people act like this wasn't a dangerous/meaningful fight for Hopkins. Tito fought a legit, BIG middleweight in Joppy and steamrolled him with his vicious power that CLEARLY carried up to MW.
How is it any difference than Marvin Hagler beating Tommy Hearns, who (I think) was in his first middleweight fight - TOTALLY unproven at 160.
Or Duran coming back from the dead and beating a Moore...at jr middle... and then fighting for all three straps the first time Hagler defended them. That fight was scoffed at prior by more than a few.
Re: Give Bernard Hopkins his just due!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Domiko
@
Beanflicker leonard hearns and duran all fought benitez.. Thats another great. They are throw back fighters and there cant be a comparison between hopkins and them because of the standard of the competition they faced.
So who else besides Benitez?
Re: Give Bernard Hopkins his just due!
So explain to me why Hagler, a guy WIDELY considered to be in the top 3 MWs of all time, is so far above Bhop?
Yeah he beat Hearns and Duran... Hearns, a former WW and LMW champ who was fighting for the first time at MW. Duran, a former LW and WW champ fighting at MW for the first time, who immediately went back down in weight after the fight. So I ask you how that's any different than Bhop beating DLH and Trinidad, two GREAT fighters? Trinidad, a guy who had fought a legit top 5 middleweight at the time and DESTROYED him, showing he carried his brutal power up to MW. Oscar, a guy who also had fought at MW prior and won a world title there (albiet on one of the biggest BS decisions in boxing).
So why does Hagler get credit for that, and Bhop gets nothing? That's not mentioning the fact that Hagler lost to another smaller man in Leonard, who was coming back in his first fight after 3 or 4 years.
Who else did Hagler beat that was so beyond Bhop? Mugabi? Another smaller man who went up and dropped back down immediately following the fight. Roldan? Who did he beat to be great? Are we going to say that beating Caveman Lee and Hamsho is more impressive than Antonio Tarver, Winky Wright, or Pavlik?
Re: Give Bernard Hopkins his just due!
*U can argue the point that Hagler went undefeated his whole career... his loses were suspect & career,a highlight reel of strong tough ko's over strong tough rugged fighters... Willie Monro, Ray seals, juan Rodon, Mustafa Hamsho... people forget all these guys...
Hearns was middleweight fighting at welter... the fight is generally considered one of the most brutal...the first round is copnsidered the greatest in boxing history... and u have the nerve to question whether Hagler is an all time great?
Mugabi was an undeafeated young up and comer..with huge power.. the result was a brutal war... it can be said both guys ruined eachother.
Hopkins middleweight career is filled with fouls..holding, headbutts and rolling around on the cancas faking low blows... the question should be how he got away with it for all his career... sure, has talent... but comp was suspect at middleweight and antics were ridiculous
in the end, the way i see it...Hagler would beat all the fighters Hopkins beat at middleweight and & rather easily... The same coulnt be said about Hopkins vs Hagler comp...
and if u ask... i think 95% believe Hagler would crush Hopkins in a fight...
