Re: James Toney wants Wilder: " I want a piece of that little punk "
You missed out the ''t' part, but I will excuse that. I get personal sometimes, but no more than others who can be more bellicose and in my defence I deal with a lot more hostility than many too as I refuse to muddle through quietly. As I said in the other thread though, I think you are alright.
On the Toney issue, I see exactly where you are coming from and I know that you are partly right. Toney is 45 and hasn't won a meangingful fight in several years. Part of it is the fact that I am a fan and he is one of my favourites, but the other part is also Captain Ahab in his search for the great whale. You can't quite let it go until the bitter end. Boxing and a favourite fighter can end up being like an existential howl into the wilderness with the eternal cry "I will battle the elements, I shall resist time, I shall wrestle with my soul into the aching dawn, for I am and it can be". More often than not the mission can be futile, steeped in failure and disappointment and countless false starts, but there is something grand in the gesture. With every rise there has to be a fall and for all his plummeting; both down the rankings and occasionally through the pounds, there is a faintest flicker of a resurrection. Heck, it's far more realistic than the Jesus back from the dead nonsense. JFAT alliance for life.
Re: James Toney wants Wilder: " I want a piece of that little punk "
Call me crazy but I think even this version of Toney still has what one might call enough muscle memory as a master counter puncher to get in between those extra wide punches Wilder throws that seem to originate in a different country.
You know George Chuvalo has recently went on record about a week ago saying that he credits his addiction to Double Bubble as the reason for his granite chin. I actually believe him. You can see the jaw muscles at work in the mirror with a mouth full of that gum. I was probably chewing DB when I watched him fight the then Clay in 66. Back then a piece of DB was about the same size as an ounce of hash.
I don't think Wilder has a chin at all and I think Toney is still clever enough to get one in and test it.
And a silence comes over the crowd as they hear a lone smart ass from the bleeders saying "timber" with a long drawn out pitch.
Re: James Toney wants Wilder: " I want a piece of that little punk "
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
You know George Chuvalo has recently went on record about a week ago saying that he credits his addiction to Double Bubble as the reason for his granite chin. I actually believe him. You can see the jaw muscles at work in the mirror with a mouth full of that gum. I was probably chewing DB when I watched him fight the then Clay in 66. Back then a piece of DB was about the same size as an ounce of hash.
He had to be joking.
The theory that a strong jaw protects you from getting knocked out is one of the most idiotic myths in boxing history.
It's like saying a guy is tough because he literally has an enlarged heart.
As for Toney, he could never bust a grape at HW.
Re: James Toney wants Wilder: " I want a piece of that little punk "
Explain Toney then. The man has never been knocked out in almost 90 fights, he has never been seriously hurt. The man started at MW and HW's don't hurt him, there is no myth about an iron jaw. Some fighters can take a lot more than others.
You will never see Toney like Hatton, Pac, Jones Jr, as the man has a proven iron jaw. He seems to really, really dig it.
Toney doesn't need to bust anything at HW. He is quicker than most of them and can wobble them. Toney is old, but still sharper. He is now also more trim, so why not put him in there with Wilder? If Toney gets knocked out he knows he is done, but if he doesn't then he proves Wilder is a hoax and the show goes on.
Re: James Toney wants Wilder: " I want a piece of that little punk "
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
You know George Chuvalo has recently went on record about a week ago saying that he credits his addiction to Double Bubble as the reason for his granite chin. I actually believe him. You can see the jaw muscles at work in the mirror with a mouth full of that gum. I was probably chewing DB when I watched him fight the then Clay in 66. Back then a piece of DB was about the same size as an ounce of hash.
He had to be joking.
The theory that a strong jaw protects you from getting knocked out is one of the most idiotic myths in boxing history.
It's like saying a guy is tough because he literally has an enlarged heart.
As for Toney, he could never bust a grape at HW.
No he was serious and I'm of the mind and have always been of the mind that you are born with a chin, just like power. But who am I to argue with Chuvalo.
Wilder ought to start chewing just to be on the safe side lol.
Re: James Toney wants Wilder: " I want a piece of that little punk "
Quote:
Originally Posted by
beenKOed
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Call me crazy but I think even this version of Toney still has what one might call enough muscle memory as a master counter puncher to get in between those extra wide punches Wilder throws that seem to originate in a different country.
You know George Chuvalo has recently went on record about a week ago saying that he credits his addiction to Double Bubble as the reason for his granite chin. I actually believe him. You can see the jaw muscles at work in the mirror with a mouth full of that gum. I was probably chewing DB when I watched him fight the then Clay in 66. Back then a piece of DB was about the same size as an ounce of hash.
I don't think Wilder has a chin at all and I think Toney is still clever enough to get one in and test it.
And a silence comes over the crowd as they hear a lone smart ass from the bleeders saying "timber" with a long drawn out pitch.
Anything can happen in the ring, so you could be right, but Wilder does have a decent jab and Toney will be eating a ton of them. Toney is not what he was, remember that if you see him on the canvas.
The Bubble gum theory could be correct, but I think Chuvalo's neck and disposition should be taken into account too.
All I am saying is that even in Toneys depleted state, he still has the ability to get off the ropes and get in between those wide shots and I think Wilders chin is a real issue.
Re: James Toney wants Wilder: " I want a piece of that little punk "
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gandalf
Explain Toney then. The man has never been knocked out in almost 90 fights, he has never been seriously hurt. The man started at MW and HW's don't hurt him, there is no myth about an iron jaw. Some fighters can take a lot more than others.
You will never see Toney like Hatton, Pac, Jones Jr, as the man has a proven iron jaw. He seems to really, really dig it.
Toney doesn't need to bust anything at HW. He is quicker than most of them and can wobble them. Toney is old, but still sharper. He is now also more trim, so why not put him in there with Wilder? If Toney gets knocked out he knows he is done, but if he doesn't then he proves Wilder is a hoax and the show goes on.
You misunderstood what I said.
I'm not saying there's no such thing as an iron jaw. CLEARLY there are guys who can take more punishment than others. I'm saying that it has nothing to do with how strong your actual jaw is. Having a "strong jaw" is a figure of speech to mean you can take a punch, just like having a "big heart" is a figure of speech to say a guy is brave, not to indicate that he has an enlarged heart.
The ability to take a punch is determined by the body's (skull, neck, traps, shoulders, ect) ability to absorb the concussive shocks of a punch so that the brain doesn't slam off the skull and get shut off. It has nothing to do with strong jaw muscles. What jaw muscles would do to prevent the brain from slamming off the skull is beyond me.
If you think Toney would stand a chance in hell against Wilder, you're insane. He just lost to a complete bum in England, who has a 24% KO percentage (putting him 5 points above KO Artist Paulie Malignaggi's 19%). James is slow, he's short and dumpy, he has pathetic power at HW, and his once amazing reflexes are shot.
James is one of my favorite fighters of all time, so I'd rather not see him get killed in the ring. He was diagnosed with brain damage as early as 2005. His body doesn't produce testosterone anymore because of the punches he took. He gets by on hormone replacement therapy. And I want to see him get in with a 6'8'' axe murdered like Wilder WHY?
It's a stupid fight for both guys. Wilder needs to step up and fight real competition, and James needs to realize that his ship sailed years ago.
Re: James Toney wants Wilder: " I want a piece of that little punk "
Wilder might have his chin checked, but it'll be against a real HW like Robert Helenius, Arreola, David Price, Thompson, Fury, Klitschko, ect.
Toney isn't checking anyone's chin, especially at this age.
It's like expecting Paulie Maligaggi to chin check somebody.
Re: James Toney wants Wilder: " I want a piece of that little punk "
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
beenKOed
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Call me crazy but I think even this version of Toney still has what one might call enough muscle memory as a master counter puncher to get in between those extra wide punches Wilder throws that seem to originate in a different country.
You know George Chuvalo has recently went on record about a week ago saying that he credits his addiction to Double Bubble as the reason for his granite chin. I actually believe him. You can see the jaw muscles at work in the mirror with a mouth full of that gum. I was probably chewing DB when I watched him fight the then Clay in 66. Back then a piece of DB was about the same size as an ounce of hash.
I don't think Wilder has a chin at all and I think Toney is still clever enough to get one in and test it.
And a silence comes over the crowd as they hear a lone smart ass from the bleeders saying "timber" with a long drawn out pitch.
Anything can happen in the ring, so you could be right, but Wilder does have a decent jab and Toney will be eating a ton of them. Toney is not what he was, remember that if you see him on the canvas.
The Bubble gum theory could be correct, but I think Chuvalo's neck and disposition should be taken into account too.
All I am saying is that even in Toneys depleted state, he still has the ability to get off the ropes and get in between those wide shots and I think Wilders chin is a real issue.
I am not looking for an argument, but why do you think Wilder's chin is an issue? I haven't seen it tested yet, what did I miss? Maybe you think his puffy record points to a weak chin? I'm just interested in what you have to say about the chin.
Re: James Toney wants Wilder: " I want a piece of that little punk "
Quote:
Originally Posted by
beenKOed
I am not looking for an argument, but why do you think Wilder's chin is an issue? I haven't seen it tested yet, what did I miss? Maybe you think his puffy record points to a weak chin? I'm just interested in what you have to say about the chin.
Lol neither am I. I just think they are hiding something and its most likely his chin. His careful handling is more then coddling. To me its paranoia. I think the Firtha fight sustained it for me. Wilder looked stunned by a jab that had nothing on it. I'm starting to feel the same way about one of my favourites in Gary Russell.
Re: James Toney wants Wilder: " I want a piece of that little punk "
Getting old has to be really hard on a guy like Toney, looking at a guy like Wilder and thinking "Free Lunch." But you get to a point where it just doesn't go together like it used to.
And he's a middleweight, light heavy at most. All fighters look at heavies and think "Free Lunch" and resent the money they make because heavies are slow and stupid and easy to hit. Theoretically. And then there is the weight and size difference, but that is where it starts.
Re: James Toney wants Wilder: " I want a piece of that little punk "
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
beenKOed
I am not looking for an argument, but why do you think Wilder's chin is an issue? I haven't seen it tested yet, what did I miss? Maybe you think his puffy record points to a weak chin? I'm just interested in what you have to say about the chin.
Lol neither am I. I just think they are hiding something and its most likely his chin. His careful handling is more then coddling. To me its paranoia. I think the Firtha fight sustained it for me. Wilder looked stunned by a jab that had nothing on it. I'm starting to feel the same way about one of my favourites in Gary Russell.
Running random here but I haven't been as skeptical on a fighter as Wilder since Berto was coming up, but even Berto had faced -decent- comp early. I really don't know or think Wilder is being looked at case for case. The dude is as packaged as they come. Frankly..he's terrible.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RK42z9DPsUM Fearless Deontays 15th fight, just watched it...wow! This "heavyweight opponent" was coming off a 2 yr layoff. He had last lost to Prince Badi Ajamu something and ko'd by Yusaf Mack...at Lt. heavyweight! He threw a total of FOUR jabs here...6 months later he lost to a 41 yr old Montell Griffin..at Lt. heavyweight! Wilder managed to literally shake his ass more times than Abran managed to throw punches. This actually looks like at least half his fights
Re: James Toney wants Wilder: " I want a piece of that little punk "
Wilder looks like shit. No wonder Toney wants to fight him.
Re: James Toney wants Wilder: " I want a piece of that little punk "
People overlook the fact Wilder has already beaten one of the best HW's of modern times , a fearless fighter in Audley Harrison.
Re: James Toney wants Wilder: " I want a piece of that little punk "
Look no matter what issues Wilder has, skill, chin, stamina, none of it would matter at all.
Wilder would completely level "Fat Toney" with his first connected right hand!
Any other claim is just ridiculous and Toney must have a death wish. He should be forced to retire on the grounds that his brain is no longer functioning properly.
Re: James Toney wants Wilder: " I want a piece of that little punk "
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Max Power
Look no matter what issues Wilder has, skill, chin, stamina, none of it would matter at all.
Wilder would completely level "Fat Toney" with his first connected right hand!
Any other claim is just ridiculous and Toney must have a death wish. He should be forced to retire on the grounds that his brain is no longer functioning properly.
You cant make him retire on those grounds or you would also have to make Tyson Fury retire because his brain has never worked properly.
Re: James Toney wants Wilder: " I want a piece of that little punk "
Haha well I have no counter quip to that so I'll remember my place then!! :)
Re: James Toney wants Wilder: " I want a piece of that little punk "
I can only laugh at this thread. lololololol... Toney gets put to sleep. Set it up. This would be FUN!!!
:D
Re: James Toney wants Wilder: " I want a piece of that little punk "
Here's another way to look at it:
Wilder would probably do Fat Ass Toney a favor. As long as FAT keeps fighting fighters with average power, he'll survive to fight another day.... and probably get bolder and more delusional about his chances with each passing fight. He'll probably start talking championship bullshit, except nobody will understand what the fuck he's saying because he slurs so much. And each time he steps into the ring and survives, he'll still take some shots.... continuing the cycle of slow, but steady damage to his brain. He'll demand more fights, and the moronic boxing licensing boards will continue to humor him by letting him fight. At that rate he'll never get the message that he needs to get the hell outta Dodge sooner rather than later. He should save whatever health and dignity he's got left.
On the other hand.... let's say he gets into the ring with a Deontay Wilder... and Wilder knocks his blubbery head into the 5th row of seats. He'll be KTFO'ed..... and maybe THEN both him AND the moronic licensing boards will get the message once and for all. And he'll retire his slurring ass to do whatever the hell it is that FAT wants to do after retirement, and we'll live happily ever after.
