I agree he's the biggest threat out of all of the current guys.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus
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I agree he's the biggest threat out of all of the current guys.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus
When i think about it Spinks is the only guy i say would beat Jones. Was only lhw never lose in his division was also consider a pretty tough era as well. He had a lot size and power over Jones and also had the most off putting style i have ever seen would probably throw anyone off.
Spinks was great but I think Jones' speed was and skill was on another level for him. Would I say he has a shot? Sure. But would I pick him to beat Jones? Nahh that's a pretty big stretch.
I like the Mackie Shilstone link between Roy and Spinks though... Mackie helped Spinks move up to the HW division and beat Holmes and truely transition his body from LHW to HW, then 20 years later or so he did the same thing for Roy to move up and beat John Ruiz.
I can agree with thatQuote:
Originally Posted by BeanflickerRoy was the greatest natural talent in the history of boxing, but Floyd had a more well rounded skillset.Quote:
Originally Posted by chris6878floyd better than roy.....delusionalQuote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
Haha. Zhubin, u didn't have Roy's baby, did u?!? Look buddy, Roy was never explosive unless he was blowing out no hope competition like Percy Harris, Richard Frazier, and Glenn Kelly. He always struggled against decently skilled fighters, like Eric Harding made Roy struggle.
It's like I told u earlier, Roy was fast enough to easily win the fight vs Toney, be he never had him in trouble. The knockdown was a case of James being off balance more than being hurt or shaken up. Against Hop he never had him in trouble or shaky either.
The one fight where Roy looked impressive against a solid fighter by stopping him was the second Griffith fight. Roy just doesn't have the resume to back up your bias for him and claims for his greatness.
Roy feasted on weak competition. That isn't an opinion, that's a fact. How many guys did Roy fight and beat that were ranked P4P at the time of the fight? Do you even know?!? Let me help you, it was one guy: James Toney. Roy never fought the major challenges at any weight he competed in other than Toney and Tarver. I give him credit for both wins, cause he dominated Toney n dug down for the win vs Tarver. That said, to insinuate that he beat better comp or is greater than Hop, Floyd, Ward, Pac, Sweet Pea...etc. is just laughable.
Roy was talented, more talented than any of those guys listed above. He was a great fighter and very unorthodox. But he never fought tough competition and to say that he was spectacular based on his blowouts of weak competition is just asinine. Sorry buddy.
I do not think you can criticise Roy for blowing out fighters because that is all he could do as would have Spinks, Foster and Ezzard Charles if they were in his position. Roy did clean the division at light heavy.
Did Roy fuck your wife? You seem bitter. "Roy was fast enough to easily win the fight vs Toney, be he never had him in trouble. The knockdown was a case of James being off balance more than being hurt or shaken up. Against Hop he never had him in trouble or shaky either." Why does Roy have to knock down/KO someone to be dominant...he dominated Bhop with one hand...and he dominated Toney with ease. Stop hating....buddy.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeeod
Master/zhubin,
We will try it this way. I will name all of the fighters Roy would have gotten credit for fighting, that he never fought.
Middleweight: Julian Jackson, G-Man
Super Middleweight: Eubank, Collins, Benn, Liles, Nunn, Gracianno
Light Heavy: Darius M. His biggest hit since he was lineal titlist n perceived as Roy's only competition at this weight. Spinks
So why is it necessarily Jones' fault that those fights never happened?Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeeod
That's the mark of a true hater. People do the same shit with Floyd - they look back and ANY and EVERY fight that DIDN'T happen was one guy ducking everyone. It's nonsense.
It's common knowledge that Benn was handled by Don King (a guy who Jones wanted nothing to do with). Don put out the condition that in order to fight Benn, he would need a three fight option on Jones. Who the hell would agree to that? How is that Jones' fault?
There's always back and forth and disagreements on terms. It takes two to fight, and I don't fault Jones for not taking stupid deals. Why does the #1 p4p have to chase people and take stupid deals?
Dariusz wouldn't fight outside of Germany, and so many German fighters have made careers getting gifts in their home land. If Dariusz wanted the fight, he should have came to Jones because Jones was viewed as the superior fighter.
Dariusz turned down 5 mil to fight Roy and went and fought De Grandis for 1.5 mil. He didn't want that fight because he knew he'd get lit up.
If any of you seriously think any of these guys would have beaten Jones, you're nuts.
I am sure Jones was super middle if not light heavy when Jackson and G Man was champion.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeeod
Jones was light heavy champ when the Brits moved up to super middleweight but would have been favourite against them.
Dariuz was his rival but he beat the guy that beat him.
Hey RJJs prime fights predate my interest in boxing. I have seen some of his fights on YouTube but can anyone recommend a couple matches that are must sees. Thanks
LOL @ Roy beating everyone in history at 175. I think you people are confusing speed and reflexes for technical skill. As soon as Roy's reflexes failed him, he got knocked out.
I cannot give Roy a pass on cleaning out today's top tier when he didn't do it in his own day, whatever and whomever was to blame. It's just too wide a brush for me to paint with. Roy missed a few chances to stamp greatness in stone from where I sit. Pazienza, Brannon..come on. His wins over Hill, Toney and Hopkins were tops for me but I really think he had Toney psyched out before the bell even sounded. Hopkins was green in the sence of mass spotlight exposure compared to Jones as he was fresh off headlining cards on BET ffs but his skills were obvious but far more seek & destroy than the thinking chess player he became.
you're exactly right ..... But what fantastic reflexes that guy had. They made him a great fighter.Quote:
Originally Posted by VG_Addict
I'd love to have seen him fight Benn. I think Jones would have probably won, but Benn would have gone right for him like a shark and Jones would have likely been walking a thinner tightrope for a few rounds than in any of his other fights.
Who exactly is today's "top tier"? Aside from Ward...you are going to tell me guys like GGG and Stevenson would match Roy Jones?! If we are going to criticize Roy's resume....who the fuck have Stevenson and GGG fought up to this point. And i don't understand why people keep trying to diminish his wins over Toney and Hopkins. While Hopkins might have been a bit "green"...it's not like he developed a ton more...he has always been a guy who relies on craftiness anyways. No version of Hopkins would beat a prime Roy...because Roy just had to much on him physically. Toney was psyched out?! Who cares?! He lost the fight he came into as the favorite. One guy performed better...end of. As far as the guys Roy SHOULD have fought. It's a two way street. Boxing is a BUSINESS. Promoters, money, venue...all play into shit. But it's just so much easier to just he was ducking fighters.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli
Jones was a great fighter but he didn't clean out division really i mean Mayweather cleared at least few of his out. Spinks cleared out his division when is was deep and fought everyone of note before moving up and winning the actual heavyweight belt. As for Jones having speed on Spinks that's about it Micheal could box as well in a weird way had reach and height and power over Jones. Not to mention Besides Tyson Micheal was never really hurt or knocked down in his whole career i feel Spinks was all wrong for Jones and pick him to when majority of the time. Spinks did something that had not been done in 77 years and that was become Lineal champ at Lhw and Hw and also never lose lhw in his division either. Out of today crops that's different story when Jones is called a god i kinda think of Spinks because he could beat him i think more often then not.
Don't give me that "Roy was the first fighter in 100 years to start at MW and win a title at HW" bullshit. Roy hand-picked Ruiz, because he was a slow, feather-fisted HW who didn't have a huge size advantage over him. If Roy had picked any of the other HWs, he would have been knocked spark out.
Everyone knows Lewis was the REAL HW champion back then. Roy wasn't stupid. He knew he didn't stand a chance in hell against Lewis.
Yeah...he should have fought Lennox Lewis his first time as a heavyweight :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by VG_Addict
Its a personal observation so lighten up. I didn't diminish shit..what part of tops for me didn't you get...just pointed out what I saw without having my nose so far up his arse that I couldn't see a point of view. Toney seemed shook, around here that's a compliment to the guy he is facing. His speed and flat feet would not have kept up with Jones reflex no matter what. Hopkins was not the 'prime' fighter then he became, guys mature and evolve skill and watching him in 94 or 04 or 14 its obvious he changed. Fight wasn't close and Roy got it when it mattered as clearly he was further gone in rematch. It's not all sunshine and unicorns walking on water for any fighter and every record or era. I'm the last guy to defend a chump like Stevenson but Roy and Golovkin can both say they have carried opponents in the ring and faced a fair share of mediocre mandatories and showcases to make the crowd go ohhhh. It very much is a two way street. I get tired of seeing modern eras as well as eras we never lived dismissed so easily on a few chosen few "greats" or "future -enter so and so's name here-" who still had or have a house to clean. He was a phenom, he wasn't a fookin god.Quote:
Originally Posted by zhubinWho exactly is today's "top tier"? Aside from Ward...you are going to tell me guys like GGG and Stevenson would match Roy Jones?! If we are going to criticize Roy's resume....who the fuck have Stevenson and GGG fought up to this point. And i don't understand why people keep trying to diminish his wins over Toney and Hopkins. While Hopkins might have been a bit "green"...it's not like he developed a ton more...he has always been a guy who relies on craftiness anyways. No version of Hopkins would beat a prime Roy...because Roy just had to much on him physically. Toney was psyched out?! Who cares?! He lost the fight he came into as the favorite. One guy performed better...end of. As far as the guys Roy SHOULD have fought. It's a two way street. Boxing is a BUSINESS. Promoters, money, venue...all play into shit. But it's just so much easier to just he was ducking fighters.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli
I never said he was a god. Almost any fighter past or present...great champion or not...can have his resume picked apart. I am just pointing out that very often fights don't get made because of the business/political aspect of the sport or simply timing...it doesn't have to mean a fighter is scared or ducking people.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpicoliIts a personal observation so lighten up. I didn't diminish shit..what part of tops for me didn't you get...just pointed out what I saw without having my nose so far up his arse that I couldn't see a point of view. Toney seemed shook, around here that's a compliment to the guy he is facing. His speed and flat feet would not have kept up with Jones reflex no matter what. Hopkins was not the 'prime' fighter then he became, guys mature and evolve skill and watching him in 94 or 04 or 14 its obvious he changed. Fight wasn't close and Roy got it when it mattered as clearly he was further gone in rematch. It's not all sunshine and unicorns walking on water for any fighter and every record or era. I'm the last guy to defend a chump like Stevenson but Roy and Golovkin can both say they have carried opponents in the ring and faced a fair share of mediocre mandatories and showcases to make the crowd go ohhhh. It very much is a two way street. I get tired of seeing modern eras as well as eras we never lived dismissed so easily on a few chosen few "greats" or "future -enter so and so's name here-" who still had or have a house to clean. He was a phenom, he wasn't a fookin god.Quote:
Originally Posted by zhubinWho exactly is today's "top tier"? Aside from Ward...you are going to tell me guys like GGG and Stevenson would match Roy Jones?! If we are going to criticize Roy's resume....who the fuck have Stevenson and GGG fought up to this point. And i don't understand why people keep trying to diminish his wins over Toney and Hopkins. While Hopkins might have been a bit "green"...it's not like he developed a ton more...he has always been a guy who relies on craftiness anyways. No version of Hopkins would beat a prime Roy...because Roy just had to much on him physically. Toney was psyched out?! Who cares?! He lost the fight he came into as the favorite. One guy performed better...end of. As far as the guys Roy SHOULD have fought. It's a two way street. Boxing is a BUSINESS. Promoters, money, venue...all play into shit. But it's just so much easier to just he was ducking fighters.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli
I know man, i just think sometimes people miss a record fight per fight and we can gloss over. but yeh, Its ironic and unfortunate as Showtime and Hbo are dead set on history repeating itself but now with Kovalev v Stevenson. Jones was given the largest network contract in the sports history up to that point and they were not, just as King was not, interested or in need of given fans the biggest fights possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by zhubinI never said he was a god. Almost any fighter past or present...great champion or not...can have his resume picked apart. I am just pointing out that very often fights don't get made because of the business/political aspect of the sport or simply timing...it doesn't have to mean a fighter is scared or ducking people.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpicoliIts a personal observation so lighten up. I didn't diminish shit..what part of tops for me didn't you get...just pointed out what I saw without having my nose so far up his arse that I couldn't see a point of view. Toney seemed shook, around here that's a compliment to the guy he is facing. His speed and flat feet would not have kept up with Jones reflex no matter what. Hopkins was not the 'prime' fighter then he became, guys mature and evolve skill and watching him in 94 or 04 or 14 its obvious he changed. Fight wasn't close and Roy got it when it mattered as clearly he was further gone in rematch. It's not all sunshine and unicorns walking on water for any fighter and every record or era. I'm the last guy to defend a chump like Stevenson but Roy and Golovkin can both say they have carried opponents in the ring and faced a fair share of mediocre mandatories and showcases to make the crowd go ohhhh. It very much is a two way street. I get tired of seeing modern eras as well as eras we never lived dismissed so easily on a few chosen few "greats" or "future -enter so and so's name here-" who still had or have a house to clean. He was a phenom, he wasn't a fookin god.Quote:
Originally Posted by zhubinWho exactly is today's "top tier"? Aside from Ward...you are going to tell me guys like GGG and Stevenson would match Roy Jones?! If we are going to criticize Roy's resume....who the fuck have Stevenson and GGG fought up to this point. And i don't understand why people keep trying to diminish his wins over Toney and Hopkins. While Hopkins might have been a bit "green"...it's not like he developed a ton more...he has always been a guy who relies on craftiness anyways. No version of Hopkins would beat a prime Roy...because Roy just had to much on him physically. Toney was psyched out?! Who cares?! He lost the fight he came into as the favorite. One guy performed better...end of. As far as the guys Roy SHOULD have fought. It's a two way street. Boxing is a BUSINESS. Promoters, money, venue...all play into shit. But it's just so much easier to just he was ducking fighters.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli
If Roy had fought at least a few of his too challengers and only missed a couple, then I might agree that he wasn't sucking people. But for a guy claiming to be the greatest he failed to completely clean out any weight class he fought in. He was a phenom and a great fighter, but he was too business oriented and didn't have the love for fighting and devotion to be great. You can try and whine and get insulted all you want, but the truth is the guy was a more talented version of Donald Curry. Looks AMAZING blowing out no hopers until he takes a good one on the chin and everyone realizes the guy can't take a punch. Roy's resume is not impressive when you take his quality of opposition I to account.
Jones fought some pretty good guys and was able to move through weight classes but did miss out on a good majority of people he did not fight. But alot of them were across the pound the names that stick out are Hill, Hopkins, and Tony which are great names but he missed out on good amount of people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VG_Addict
Who cares. I'm not talking about the Roy Jones sans reflexes. I'm talking about the Roy Jones with the craziest reflexes ever who was damn near impossible to hit clean.
Again, I have to ask did he miss out or did those guys miss out? Roy was the undisputed #1 p4p in the world of boxing... why should he have to chase these guys? Why should he have to sign over his rights to Don King for the priviledge of fighting Nigel Benn? Why should he have to go over to someone's home country to fight them?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
These guys should have been BEGGING to fight Roy Jones, because Roy was the man and if they whipped Roy they would have elevated their careers and legacies sky high. But they didn't. They all either priced themselves out or came up with conditions/stipulations that they had no business making.
People keep bringing up the fact that Bernard Hopkins was green. Which is true, he had been boxing for only 5 years and was new on the championship scene, fair enough.
But people forget that Roy beat him with, essentially, one hand. In the immortal words of Roy Jones himself...
"When I beat Bernard Hopkins, and won the IBF
The right was hurt, beat him with the left YALL MUSSA FORGOT"
Eubank, Benn... are people insinuating that Roy was afraid of these guys? The James Toney that Roy fought was TWICE the fighter that those two were, and he would have DESTROYED those guys. Roy fought Toney when Toney was 44-0, WELL seasoned, and was absolutely KILLING guys with brutal KO's. If Roy was willing to fight Toney, you're not going to sell me that he was unwilling to fight Eubank and Benn.
Didn't say it was his fault the fights never happened just saying other greats pretty much fought everyone worth a shit. He just didn't end up clearing out his division got close in the lhw i mean name a person Charles, Moore and Spinks did't fight they pretty much fought cleared it out then some.
I agree add Foster to that list.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
However could you see anyone beat him at his peak Benn, Eubank, G Man, Dariuz... ?
Did ANYONE think Douglas would beat Tyson? How many people thought Benn would beat G-Man? That argument makes no sense. Should Roy had been favored? Yes. Was it a sure win? No way. Roy didn't miss one or two guys, he missed all of his top challengers at any weight that he was in. The guy had amazing gifts, but he beat few quality guys, n only one guy ranked P4P. This isn't to say that Roy wasn't great n was a bum, but for huggers like zhubin or any of u clowns to say that he was a GOAT or that no one today stood a chance to beat him, u don't know the sport.
Take it easy mate, this is boxing every opponent has a chance especially a puncher like Benn which would have been very interesting. Jones never did travel abroad but he would say he did not have to as he was the Man.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeeod
Roy's resume is underrated.. aside from Hopkins and toney, he beat many good mandatory opponents and highly ranked fighters.
Its not that he fought ordinary fighters.. he made good fighters look ordinary because he was head and shoulders above the rest..
Benn and eubank lol.. Roy could have played basketball during lunchtime, fuck 3 groupies in the dressing room, then proceed to beat those two guys on the same night..
Laugh @ eubank competing with jones.. the guy always reached with his right hand and there was nothing out of the ordinary about his game that jones has never seen..
Eubank is overrated..
When did i ever say he was GOAT? Where in any of my posts did i say that? The original subject of this thread was how he would fare against today's guys. You are a moron. Give it a rest........buddy.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeeod
How would Roy do against:
Spinks
Foster
Qawi
Moorer
For sure, and people have to remember that Roy had a very good reason to not want to travel abroad because his fight vs Park Si Hung was the biggest robbery in the history of boxing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
The goal every boxer should have is to be the best. Roy attained that goal, he was the undisputed #1 p4p in the world and for 15 years was untouchable. He had the power and he didn't need any of those guys. Those guys should have been itching to fight him, but they weren't. They were happy staying away from him and making their big paydays in their own countries against much lesser opposition.
The only way they would fight Roy is for these stipulations, and that to me says they had absolutely no confidence in beating him and needed some kind of edge. Don't hate Roy for that. Fact is, he did some unbelievable things to some really sick opposition.
He would have dominated all of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by VG_Addict
It's easy to look at Roy Jones over the last 10 years while he was washed up and getting his brains rattled and say "oh yeah, a big puncher like Moorer or Foster would have his number, they'd put his lights out." Child, please. Go back and watch vintage Roy and watch vintage Foster and Moorer, and you tell me they'd land on Roy.
Roy's defense was insane. His footwork was crazy, he kept guys at range like a pro, and even on the inside guys could hardly crack his Winky Wright-style defensive shell.
And not only that, his offensive was a great part of his defense because he had serious power.
How on earth do you see Jones dominating Spinks i think he barely wins a decision or Spinks knocks him the fuck out pretty much. Spinks had the reach power and chin and also through punchs in every fucking direction and was a very awkward style to fight against period.
Laugh @ Bob Foster competing with Roy Jones, seriously haha..
Qawi and Roy dont belong in the same stratosphere..
Moorer was somewhat lazy, wasn't the most motivated in the gym, inconsistent, and his mental toughness was questionable.. There is no way that a guy like that is going to beat Jones.
Jones was good but not great at light heavy Foster, Ezzard Charles and Spinks would beat him but maybe he could be Archie Moore.
It would be an interesting fight with Moorer but I think Jones could beat him in a classic match.
The same way he dominated most of his opponents: using his crazy speed and skill to hit his opponent and not let them hit him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
These fucking guys might as well have been trying to throw punches underwater in there against Roy Jones.