I now rank Floyd somwhere between top 30-40 all time...

So this is my list based on fighters whom I've ONLY read about and have not seen at all OR have seen very little footage of... This isn't to say no footage exists this just means I might not have gotten around to them. I'll only do the ones I've done research on...

1. Sam Langford
2. Harry Greb
3. Bob Fitzsimmons
4. Joe Gans
5. Benny Leonard
6. Mickey Walker
7. George Dixon
8. Terry McGovern
9. Packey McFarland
10. Sandy Saddler
11. Jimmy McLarnin
12. Stanley Ketchel
13. Jack Johnson
14. Holman Williams
15. Gene Tunney
16. Barbados Joe Walcott
17. Jimmy Wilde
18. Tommy Gibbons
19. Jack Britton
20. Tommy Loughran

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Originally Posted by Master

@denilson200 you do know that Spinks had a great career before he entered the heavyweight division?
You do know that Ezzard Charles beat Archie Moore and probably the best light heavy ever?
You do know that Armstrong won and held titles at featherweight, lightweight, welterweight at the same time?

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I do know that

But how can seriously put Spinks as an ATG above Tyson when Tyson beat him in under minute, that makes no sense to men. Even Spinks win over Larry Holmes was not exactly clear cut

Armstrong was a fine fighter, but looking at him on youtube there is no way he beats Floyd with that Style

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Originally Posted by CutMeMick

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Originally Posted by denilson200

Dude. I respect your boxing knowledge because I consider myself fairly knowledgeable about boxing, but some of the names on that list even I have not heard of.

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@denilson200 I don't consider myself pretty knowledgeable... I'm just a student of the game. I learn and feed off everyday reading and research. I pick up bits and pieces and ideas and do the work.

When I first saw the length of your reply I was honestly happy as I like debating and sharing details and info. that's how I learn and then I read your response... :(

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Originally Posted by denilson200

Ike Williams ? Who ?

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If you don't know who Ike Williams is then I'm not sure I can go past this part of your response and answer the set of questions... :-\

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Originally Posted by denilson200

I Have you really seen enough of him fight to say he's deserves to be numbers 26? Have you seen Eder Jofre fight ? or Miguel Canto ?

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I have a little over 6,000 fights saved in a hard drive that form part of my fight collection. I have exactly 8 complete Ike Williams fights. I have seen more then enough footage and have done the research to comfortably rank him at #26.
I have exactly 4 complete Eder Jofre fights. I have seen more then enough highlights and footage as well as done research to comfortably rank him.
I have exactly 13 complete Miguel Canto fights. I have seen more then enough footage and have done the research as well as become good friends with his son on Facebook to rank him.

As I mentioned I was really looking forward to replying to your entire comment but if you honestly don't know who Ike Williams is, it's best you learn about him. Then you can comeback and question me.

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Dude. Don't take yourself so seriously

I would lay a far bet that Floyd Mayweather himself has not heard of Ike Williams

So he knows nothing about Boxing ?

Maybe the fact that I have never heard of him says something in itself.

It's just opinion and everyone has one.

You put in Micheal Spinks but not Jack Dempsey or Gene Tunney or Jack Johnson or Tyson ? Spinks was better than all them ? Cmon

The boxing sprirt of old is long gone. Robinson fought 34 times in his last 3 years and Armstong 49 times. Floyd has fought what, 5 fights? We would need a matrix of criteria to come close to making a realistic comparison rather than here is my opinion.

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Originally Posted by fan johnny

The boxing sprirt of old is long gone. Robinson fought 34 times in his last 3 years and Armstong 49 times. Floyd has fought what, 5 fights? We would need a matrix of criteria to come close to making a realistic comparison rather than here is my opinion.

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Yeah but Ray Robinson and Henry Armstrong weren't making no 60 million dollars a fight, either. If they could get paid that much per fight, do you think they'd still be fighting that much? Hell nah.

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Originally Posted by CutMeMick

By the way I scored the fight 115-113 for Floyd...

1. M
2. F
3. M
4. M
5. M
6. F
7. F
8. F
9. F
10. F (The toughest round to score for me)
11. M (Tough round to score)
12. F (Tough round to score)

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I had the same score.

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Originally Posted by CutMeMick

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Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust

cant believe Maricano at 34 and Lennox Lewis not even in there.

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@brocktonblockbust while I do hold Lewis in high regards and he was the Undisputed HW Champ I just prefer Marcianos body of work overall... Maybe in years to come my opinion changes. Who knows??? Lennox is def. top 50 for me... Easy. Closer to 40 right behind Oscar on my list.

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Me too, just wonderin'. I put Marciano about 11th ATG all weight classes combined. I put Lewis about #17

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Originally Posted by CutMeMick

First and foremost I hope all you fuckers are doing well... Been a while since I posted here. I missed you (some not all) sad fucks. For those who don't know me damn! I've been gone too long. For those that do, fuck off! ;D

So I was thinking as Floyds career begins to wind down where will he end up in my all time list? Keep in mind lists are like assholes. Everybody's got one. Depending on how you rank fighters. He can be top 100, top 50 or in my case 30-40.
THE ONLY THING FLOYD LACKS COMPARED TO THESE GUYS IS OPPOSITION.
Even then he gets full credit from me for his fights vs. Chicanito Hernandez, Cotto, Corrales, Hatton, C. Hernandez, Chavez, Castillo. Since the Mosley fight regardless of how you view his opposition he has fought some top names. He just makes them look mediocre. Even after he settled in vs. Maidana he was making him look slow and average at times.
Keep in mind I DON'T rank fighters whom I don't know enough of and or have not seen enough footage to judge them on. I simply refuse to rank fighters I've seen and know a lot of with fighters whom I've only read of. With that being said over time I've learned more and more about a lot of fighters whom 8 or 9 years ago I did not know much of and now today I can rank them.

Notable fighters I don't rank: Sam Langford, Harry Greb, Bob Fitzsimmons, Joe Gans, Benny Leonard & Mickey Walker among others.

So here it is for you to shred & tare apart... Where does Floyd rank all time? Today for me anywhere between 30-40.

40. Oscar De La Hoya
39. Carlos Zarate
38. Miguel Canto
37. Manuel Ortiz
36. Lou Ambers
35. Dick Tiger
34. Marciano
33. Saldivar
32. Wilfredo Gomez
31. Holyfield
30. Olivares
29. Hopkins
28. Harada
27. Carlos Ortiz
26. Ike Williams
25. Hearns
24. M. Spinks
23. Jofre
22. Sanchez
21. Lopez
20. Arguello
19. Napoles
18. Emile
17. Kid Gavilan
16. Roy Jones
15. Hagler
14, Canzoneri
13. Pernell
12. Ross
11. Louis
10. Monzon
9. Chavez
8. SRL
7. Archie
6. Pep
5. Duran
4. Ezzard
3. Ali
2. Armstrong
1. SRR

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Welcome back ya knob.

Make the next hiatus longer please.

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

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Originally Posted by fan johnny

The boxing sprirt of old is long gone. Robinson fought 34 times in his last 3 years and Armstong 49 times. Floyd has fought what, 5 fights? We would need a matrix of criteria to come close to making a realistic comparison rather than here is my opinion.

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Yeah but Ray Robinson and Henry Armstrong weren't making no 60 million dollars a fight, either. If they could get paid that much per fight, do you think they'd still be fighting that much? Hell nah.

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Point being, put mayeather in that erra and he would get busted up. Put Armstrong in todays erra and still clean out the divisions with endorcement too.

Denilsen200 Micheal number is fine he was first and only Lineal champ at lhw and hw. He has a great resume at Lhw was the only champ at lhw who was undefeated. He lost to Tyson at his peak at a weight Spinks was not the greatest at look at Tysons lose to Douglass does that put a mark on him.

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Originally Posted by fan johnny

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

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Originally Posted by fan johnny

The boxing sprirt of old is long gone. Robinson fought 34 times in his last 3 years and Armstong 49 times. Floyd has fought what, 5 fights? We would need a matrix of criteria to come close to making a realistic comparison rather than here is my opinion.

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Yeah but Ray Robinson and Henry Armstrong weren't making no 60 million dollars a fight, either. If they could get paid that much per fight, do you think they'd still be fighting that much? Hell nah.

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Point being, put mayeather in that erra and he would get busted up. Put Armstrong in todays erra and still clean out the divisions with endorcement too.

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Who's going to bust Mayweather up? One of the many club fighters that these guys padded their records with?

Go look at the records of any of these guys: you'll see them fight guys with losing records, less than 10 fights, ect.

Floyd wouldn't be allowed to fight that kind of competition today because the Athletic Commissions wouldn't allow it because it wouldn't be a fair fight.

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Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust

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Originally Posted by CutMeMick

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Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust

cant believe Maricano at 34 and Lennox Lewis not even in there.

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@brocktonblockbust while I do hold Lewis in high regards and he was the Undisputed HW Champ I just prefer Marcianos body of work overall... Maybe in years to come my opinion changes. Who knows??? Lennox is def. top 50 for me... Easy. Closer to 40 right behind Oscar on my list.

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Me too, just wonderin'. I put Marciano about 11th ATG all weight classes combined. I put Lewis about #17

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I think Lewis is better. He fought in a better era, and thus fought better competition. He also cleaned out the division, while Marciano retired six fights after winning the title.

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Originally Posted by CutMeMick

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Originally Posted by Mr140

How did you find SRR footage like did you go to a archive or somthing thought that shit was gone in a fire or something right. Also do you have any on Tunney at all besides the Demsey fights. I really think that we should have a atg list done like old generation new one because they are so different now.

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@Mr140 simply by looking... Everytime in my spare time I would search and contact people and ask until I finally came across it when a friend sent me a link.
To be honest boxers like Tunney, Dempsey, Jack Johnson while I respect them and rank them in their own realm again I just don't mess with them...
I have seperate lists. I have lists of fighters whom I've ONLY read about and have not seen enough footage if any at all. I'll post that one up next.

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Originally Posted by Mr140

Also good to see you back i like to see Ice Britkid and Saddo come back but i think they are long gone. I would rank Holyfeild tad higher since there has never been a Heavyweight move up to hw and be considered a top 10 atg hw. Which is saying a lot when giving up 20 to 40 pounds in a fight is big deal.

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Thank you...
Ice Cold Boxing is BritKid as well as Saddo and Mr140 oh and zzzz.
But who cares about Ice Cold Boxing all his knowledge came from "Google" & "BoxRec"
don't tell him I told you that... ;)

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Any chance you could upload some of those SRR fights please matey?

Can't see how anyone can have Roy ranked ahead of Floyd, Hop, n Manny. Just makes no sense to me...

I would have to rank Floyd in the top 20. He is a great fighter and has beaten all styles at multiple weights in various different ways. The guy is really a 140 pounder at most, n he is shutting out the top guys at 154. Tough to argue with that kind of dominance. Would've liked to have seen him beat Paul Williams, Kostya, Prime Shane, n Winky (too big, I know, but I think Floyd could've pulled it off) but I'm not one of those guys who thinks he sucked them. He has fought some solid comp throughout his career.

Right now I keep going back and forth in how I rank Floyd, Manny, and Hop because all three have MAJOR ACCOMPLISHMENTS that may never be broken or duplicated. All three r phenomenal in their own way. Going back to my earlier point, I just can't see how some of the lists on here have Roy anywhere near the top 30, not to mention ranked over the other three...

Ok now i have to defend another fucking guy i hate good god why. Jones deserve to be in talks with Mayweather, Pac and Hopkins i have him over Pac and Hopkins. Jones Stared out at 154 and got titles all the way to hw which is 50 pounds differens of division and up. The guy he fought was 220 thats 70 pounds diffence from were he started and Roy weighed 198 and and beat him for a belt. Now do i think his top 15 depends on my mood but he deserves to mentioned with Mayweather and he is above Pac and Hopkins in my book. I mean see Hopkins trying to jump up to heavy and fight a contender do you see pac trying to face a smw or Mayweather facing a lhw no because that's crazy for them. The only fighter when comes to mind when having ro face faints his whole career is Holyfeild started out 175 and fought guys up to 250 and most of the time was outweighed 20 pounds and still manged to win during his prime and give good fight after it. There are only a few fighters in the history of the sport who dare move up to hw division and win anything and you know why because it is a really fucking hard thing to try to do.

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Originally Posted by mikeeod

Can't see how anyone can have Roy ranked ahead of Floyd, Hop, n Manny. Just makes no sense to me...

I would have to rank Floyd in the top 20. He is a great fighter and has beaten all styles at multiple weights in various different ways. The guy is really a 140 pounder at most, n he is shutting out the top guys at 154. Tough to argue with that kind of dominance. Would've liked to have seen him beat Paul Williams, Kostya, Prime Shane, n Winky (too big, I know, but I think Floyd could've pulled it off) but I'm not one of those guys who thinks he sucked them. He has fought some solid comp throughout his career.

Right now I keep going back and forth in how I rank Floyd, Manny, and Hop because all three have MAJOR ACCOMPLISHMENTS that may never be broken or duplicated. All three r phenomenal in their own way. Going back to my earlier point, I just can't see how some of the lists on here have Roy anywhere near the top 30, not to mention ranked over the other three...

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in reality, bhop is kind of overrated. at this point, most of his legacy comes from his longevity. he has been a top fighter for so many years that it just pushes him up the rankings despite not being super great. i would say that hagler, monzon, and robinson are all easily above him at middleweight and there are a handful of other middleweights throughout history that are arguably better. bhop just gets the nod over the other guys because of longevity. honestly, he isnt a fighter that is eye catching by any means. he is a great fighter but not its hard for me to call him elite.

i think that pac got very overrated also because of his 3 or so year dominance at a higher weight. i can see pac being ranked in the top 30 comfortably and maybe top 25, but the top 20 would be kind of pushing it for me. pac isnt the first person to beat bigger fighters. there are just so many joke belts now that he can win "titles" at different weights. if these belts existed for the last 100 years, there would be multiple fighters with this same accomplishment and probably even better.

jones actually dominated all of his competition. he never really had trouble in any fight before the first tarver fight. after that fight, he never looked the same again. you dont see many people staying at a top level for that long and really never having a close fight. yes, he didnt fight everyone, but neither has anybody. people like to pick on jones and mayweather for ducking fighters but pac ducked fighters on his way up too but for some reason nobody ever mentions it. i think that jones should be in the top 20 of all time. him and mayweather are close with pac and bhop lagging a little behind.

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

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Originally Posted by fan johnny

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

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Originally Posted by fan johnny

The boxing sprirt of old is long gone. Robinson fought 34 times in his last 3 years and Armstong 49 times. Floyd has fought what, 5 fights? We would need a matrix of criteria to come close to making a realistic comparison rather than here is my opinion.

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Yeah but Ray Robinson and Henry Armstrong weren't making no 60 million dollars a fight, either. If they could get paid that much per fight, do you think they'd still be fighting that much? Hell nah.

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Point being, put mayeather in that erra and he would get busted up. Put Armstrong in todays erra and still clean out the divisions with endorcement too.

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Who's going to bust Mayweather up? One of the many club fighters that these guys padded their records with?

Go look at the records of any of these guys: you'll see them fight guys with losing records, less than 10 fights, ect.

Floyd wouldn't be allowed to fight that kind of competition today because the Athletic Commissions wouldn't allow it because it wouldn't be a fair fight.

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You cant be serious? ( blasphemy)

Mayweather just had his biggest nightmare fight against a come forward no boxing skills fighter that almost took away his potential. Haven't you heard from Mayweathers mouth that his achilles heel is the amateur puncher? That might be why he won't get into the ring with pacquiao.

In my opinion, when ranking fighters historically, accomplishments weighted against quality of opposition r the key. Take Ricardo Lopez as an example. To me he is one of the greatest n most complete fighters ever. That being said, I can't rank him over guys that actually had great competition around then because of level of competition.

Roy was an UNBELIEVABLE talent, but more so than any other fighter in history, Roy missed numerous chances to prove his greatness against his top challengers n biggest threats. Roy's biggest accomplishment, as per precious posts, was winning a (not thee) title at middle n heavyweight. To put in perspective what a HUGE accomplishment this was, a grossly overweight and out of shape James Toney performed this very same feet against the very same fighter. Ruiz was the weakest of all the belt holders, and both former 160 pound titlist Took advantage and picked up their belts. The fact is that Roy, in his prime, never fought a p4p ranked fighter (at time of the fight) and always had at least one rival in his same weight class who was viewed as a potential threat to his supremacy.

Manny has picked up titles at 8 weights, beaten HOF Barrera, morales, JMM, Cotto and tough competition in Ledwaba, Hatton, Larios, Clottey n Bradley. When he beat them Bradley (#3), Barrera (#3), and Morales (#6) were all ranked P4P at the time they fought.

Hop has too many accomplishments to name, n most were at middleweight. Hop defended the middle title 20 times successfully, which is a record that won't be broken this century. He has the fastest knockout in a middleweight fight n is the first to hold all four titles at the same time. He has held the lineal 175 pound title on multiple occasions, is the oldest to win a title, the oldest to defend a title, n the oldest to unify. His only losses post prime were disputed losses to Joe C (ranked #4 p4p at the time) n Jermain Taylor n a loss to Chad Dawson (ranked p4p at the time). Hop beat p4p ranked fighters (time of the fight) Tito, Winky, Tarver, Pavilik, and Pascal.

The biggest reason that Roy is so low on my list is that he was never able to overcome adversity n come back from his first loss. Manny avenged his loss to Morales n went on to have one of the greatest runs vs elite comp ever. Hop rebounded very time from one of his losses to add extraordinary achievements to his resume. Roy lost to Tarver n his mystique n aura of invincibility was gone. Tough to put him high on any list of ATGs if u r not overly biased for him.

The fact that Manny has so many titles is a joke in it self really to how many weight classes there are. 135 Daiz big fucking deal 154 Margarito who was suspect cheat and got fucking hammered to death by Mosley before hand. Only half of the tiles i think he was consider the champ of which was the lower weights and 140. Jones beat Bernard who went off to be a champ and Toney who was ranked second on the pound for pound. Morales is great but he was coming off a lose before fighting Pac and lost right after beating Pac never was anything again really. Barrera win was great but in prime years physical anyhow he got tooled by Jones even worse who was not a great what so ever. Then you have Jmm who most people never thought he won a fight between them the third fight consider robbery of the year by the ring and then at 40 years old Jmm knocked him out cold. As for Pound for pound Jones beating Ruiz is like Pac facing weak title holder at 168 or 175. Jones stared off at 154 and beat a guy who weight almost 230 when he he could not even make the limit to the weight a guy who had some success at hw as well that is a huge thing for Jones and kinda unheard of as well.

So, if I understand your point, Manny rising in weight and fighting those names is unimpressive. Guys like Barrera, Morales, Larios, Ledwaba, JMM, Hatton...etc. aren't really impressive. Roy's wins over a green Hop, Toney, MONTELL GRIFFIN, John Ruiz, and Tarver were way more impressive even though only Toney was ranked p4p at the time?!? I guess we will just agree to disagree. I am pretty sure that most historians would disagree with u n have Roy much higher, but all of this is subjective anyways...

Also, as I stated earlier, Toney beat Ruiz for a title also. Not really that unheard of...

Tony did well at hw and was a contender there during that time. I am saying the fact that he started his career at 154 and moved up and won a trinket at hw is pretty insane the guy holding 25 pounds over him to. That would be the equivalent of Manny going up to fight weak contender at 168 or 175. Smaller weights division change a lot when you get past lmw there aren't so many of them. Also Jones did beat Taver and lost to him at 36 which was his first devastating lose. Pac already has been koed and out boxed way before his late 30's Jones was pretty untouched and lhw fought everyone but DM. I mean no matter what you say Pac and Mayweather have not faced one another which is both their faults and that worse then anyone Jones didn't fight. If put there top 10 opponents together i think its pretty close together. Also got to look at what they went on to do and if they were on the slide when they were beaten by them which i guess i could go do i rank Jones just as high if not higher then Pac and Hopkins. The only guy i rate over Jones is Mayweather and that is about it from this era maybe Lewis for being the best heavyweight in 90s's one of if not the strongest eras.

I think its one of the most fun part in boxing, when we all gather around and talk about our top boxers. Same with our taste in the ladies, everyone's will be different but hey variety is the spice of life.

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Originally Posted by mikeeod

Also, as I stated earlier, Toney beat Ruiz for a title also. Not really that unheard of...

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He didn't get the title the fight was declared a no decision. Toney tested positive for steroids after that fight...and tested positive once more a few years later.

like i always say, i dont like to pick apart fighters resume too much because most of these great fighters fought and beat other great fighters. i agree that pac did fight and beat some good competition but he also lost to much of that good competition. he is in the same boat as mayweather. once he became a superstar, he hand picked his opponents, but the difference was that pac was the baby face that could do no wrong while mayweather was the thug who only did wrong. so when pac hand picked opponents, they were called great fighters. when mayweather hand picked opponents, they were called chumps.

jones was in the same position as mayweather. no matter who he beat, they were considered bums because he destroyed them all. then he gets old over night and people start saying that his chin has always been weak and that he wouldnt have been able to last against anybody good in his prime, yadada. maybe if jones fought the same level of opposition as pac, he would have some more losses, but i also think that he would have destroyed many of those types of fighters.

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

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Originally Posted by jahmez

Beanflicker this whole pro Mayweather thing is admirable but it's getting quite boring. I've seen you on here for years and it seems something is up. I don't know if you're being encouraged by the new dickheads Cyclone and Ron or if the Maidana fight somehow unnerved you, but it's as if you have suddenly embarked on a rage induced crusade to defend Floyd at all costs, and to be honest you're starting to come across as a megalomaniac who just wants to crush anyone who disagrees with your theories. What's up mate?

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Suddenly? I've been defending Floyd against unfounded hating for years.

If people can't back up their opinions or respond to criticism, stay off the forums.

If you talk bullshit, I'm going to call you out on it.

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

When you see someone who claims that Mayweather is not an ATG, or that he's not in the top 20 p4p of all time, you can remember their names and then when you see them posting in a thread you can save your time and skip over it, because they'll have nothing insightful to say about anything boxing related.

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

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Originally Posted by VG_Addict

If he beats the Thurman-Porter winner, Lara if he beats Canelo, and the winner of Cotto-Martinez, he'll be a top 20 ATG.

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LOL, only then eh? Care to name 20 guys who deserved to be ranked above Mayweather p4p of all time?

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

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Originally Posted by fan johnny

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

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Originally Posted by fan johnny

The boxing sprirt of old is long gone. Robinson fought 34 times in his last 3 years and Armstong 49 times. Floyd has fought what, 5 fights? We would need a matrix of criteria to come close to making a realistic comparison rather than here is my opinion.

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Yeah but Ray Robinson and Henry Armstrong weren't making no 60 million dollars a fight, either. If they could get paid that much per fight, do you think they'd still be fighting that much? Hell nah.

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Point being, put mayeather in that erra and he would get busted up. Put Armstrong in todays erra and still clean out the divisions with endorcement too.

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Who's going to bust Mayweather up? One of the many club fighters that these guys padded their records with?

Go look at the records of any of these guys: you'll see them fight guys with losing records, less than 10 fights, ect.

Floyd wouldn't be allowed to fight that kind of competition today because the Athletic Commissions wouldn't allow it because it wouldn't be a fair fight.

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Do you really still think that Mick and a whole host of other posters really have nothing insightful to say about anything boxing related ? After all it was you who said "If people can't back up their opinions or respond to criticism, stay off the forums".

Have mayweather in my top 15 and Pac in the top 25 but that changes depemding on how i feel. The only fighters i have in the top 10 consistently are SRR and Leonard. Now that i know there is footage of Robinson at ww that i can see some how i will have fucking find it don't know how but i will.

Mayweather is definitely among the 10 best boxers I've ever seen and that's probably an insult to Mayweather.

Mick, I love you man. No fucking way you have seen more than the one fight of SRR. Which that's probably what you saw when you referred to seeing a prime SRR, but that's IT of a prime SRR. every contemporary writer says he wasn't the same at middleweight but we have one (I believe) to go on.

There are no full fights of Robinson at welterweight and in his prime and there are barely any clips. If anyone has those fights, it's Jimmy Jacobs. And he doesn't. He would get Solange-Jay Z money for even one fight. They're not around. We don't know a prime SRR.

Really, nobody in the current era has a legitimate claim to be #1 P4P but Floyd. A few years ago, you could have said Pacquiao, but he got knocked out by Marquez.

Yes, Floyd struggled against Maidana, but I think that was more because of age than anything else. I think we all know that the Floyd of the Guerrero fight dominates Maidana.

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Originally Posted by VG_Addict

Really, nobody in the current era has a legitimate claim to be #1 P4P but Floyd. A few years ago, you could have said Pacquiao, but he got knocked out by Marquez.

Yes, Floyd struggled against Maidana, but I think that was more because of age than anything else. I think we all know that the Floyd of the Guerrero fight dominates Maidana.

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That is not saying a lot about Floyd, Guerrero is rubbish and done nothing. :)

SRR beat way too many HOF fighters in their prime to lose that top spot. Floyd is great, no doubt, but he just hasn't beaten the guys necessary for that spot or even the top ten to fifteen. Honestly. Look who SRR, Armstrong, Ali, Leonard, Duran...etc. fought and beat. This is not to say that Floyd isn't an ATG, I just can't see ranking him over guys who fought and beat ridiculous competition. I can see Floyd being top 25 or even top 20, but guys in the top 15 have some amazing resumes. U have to have some weigh to measure a fighters greatness b reduce the subjectiveness. Floyd is great n I don't think he ducked anyone, n this is a different era. That being said, SRR still fought ridiculous competition n beat then in their primes. I can't even see a case for Floyd being #1.

I don't see a problem rating Floyd that high. I think his unique, effective defense and offense that has given all his opponents an issue relegated him quite high. I know his opposition hasn't been top teir as it could have been, or should be but his years of dominance deserves him a Solid rating. I am not a Floyd fan but I try not to let my bias to his dare I say greatness.

I am a Pactard but I rate Manny even higher. People have made solid statements explaining why they feel this is not accurate and I try to be open minded but I would put Manny in the top twenty and Floyd perhaps in the top twenty five.

Both of these gentlemen are amazing to watch during their craft and their dedication oozes through the TV. I thought Floyd would have a tough fight with Maidana but I honestly thought thought Maidana won. He had a brilliant plan and I think he did enough to win or at worst a draw. Perhaps a draw would have been more fitting which would have brought us a definite rematch which I would love to see. I think someone here made a good point that the ppv numbers may be enough to avoid a rematch on Floyd's side.

Well, I'm sure I may get attacked for this post but I already called myself a Pactard so I took away your ammunition, so ha ha on you.

Pac has good resume and it is a bit better then Mayweather but he was koed when he was a Flyweight champ then had draw with ok fighter lost to a Morales on the slide which i think is fair to say because he lost before he beat him and after he beat him. Barrera was his best win but had been tooled by Jones who was a good fighter not great before hand. Also big thing i have against Pac is he never really beat Jmm in eyes of anyone most people have Jmm winning all the fights the third one was called the Robbery of year by ring magazine and the Jmm at 40 knocked him the fuck out few i think that goes against him a tad. I mean Mayweather literal tooled Jmm say what you want about Pac beating the guys Mayweather did better but most were after they lost to him and unlike Pac Mayweather never lost to Jmm.

Floyd is a great boxer and great at selling his persona which is more beleivable than his father's brand of BS but it is still BS. What makes him beleivable aside frim his demeanor, is he seems to back his story in the ring. His rap is designed to suck you in, modeled after Ali, which he explains makes you hate him and want to watch his fights. I got a kick out if my dad who got so mad watching Ali's fights when his opponents . Couldnt hit him and probably why Duran is my personal favorite. I havent put a ccomprehensive list together because it wuld take way too much time but im pretty sure Floyd wouldnt make it to my top 10-20.

I honestly don't see anyone from 130 to 147 beating Floyd.

And it's not like you can say this is a weak era, like you could with the Klits and the HW division. 140-147 are both VERY strong divisions right now, and have been for quite a while.

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Originally Posted by VG_Addict

I honestly don't see anyone from 130 to 147 beating Floyd.

And it's not like you can say this is a weak era, like you could with the Klits and the HW division. 140-147 are both VERY strong divisions right now, and have been for quite a while.

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They are not great divisions with great champions that have been able to enhance the Floyd legacy. At lightweight Shane, Duran or Pernell, welterweight there is no SRR, Leonard or Hearns or at light middle with McCallum or Norris. Floyd has not even been able to fight the number 2 welterweight in the division.

Floyd is Top 10 surely? I think he's proven it the last few years even after the Maidana fight. He's 37 FFS.

Athletes improve over time and that's why records keep getting broken. A prime 2000's PBF handles pretty much everyone from 135 - 147 IMO from all decades previous. He's just too damn good to get hurt, has he ever been seriously?

Now I hate Floyd as much as the next man but I've resigned myself to the fact there's simply nobody out there that can beat him. I've travelled 3 times to Vegas in the hope he gets beaten and every time I leave thinking "maybe next time?'

There is no next time.

as some people have stated before, there have been some very good fighters over the past century. floyd is better than almost all of them and being in the top 20 or 25 is still a tremendous accomplishment.

floyd has beaten some really good fighters. while i do agree that he is heads and shoulders better than anybody around him right now, i could say that about past fighters also. you could put sweat pea, ray robinson, ray leonard, duran, armstrong, chavez, ross, arguello, among others in floyds place and they would all dominate too. im not implying that they are all better than floyd but just stating the fact that there have been other elite fighters that would dominate this era like floyd did. and that list only included some of the people around floyds weight. thats not counting all of the other weight classes.

honestly, imagaine ray leonard in this era. who could beat him? i honestly cant think of anybody from 140-160 that could even come close. or duran. anybody from 135-154 would have no chance. so my point is that many people would dominate this era. floyd isnt the only person who could do what he has done. this is why he isnt top 10.

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

Any chance you could upload some of those SRR fights please matey?

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Only cuz I think you're a cool lad... @Kirkland Laing
(Just want to clarify that this is NOT my upload)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by amat

Mick, I love you man. No fucking way you have seen more than the one fight of SRR. Which that's probably what you saw when you referred to seeing a prime SRR, but that's IT of a prime SRR. every contemporary writer says he wasn't the same at middleweight but we have one (I believe) to go on.

There are no full fights of Robinson at welterweight and in his prime and there are barely any clips. If anyone has those fights, it's Jimmy Jacobs. And he doesn't. He would get Solange-Jay Z money for even one fight. They're not around. We don't know a prime SRR.

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@amat I have to admit I'm really disappointed that you would question my integrity... I'd expect it from a newbie or someone who doesn't like me. But you? I gotta say you cut me deep here man. I'm glad the Kings smashed on San Jose and I hope the Oakland A's smash on your Giants overall this season and I hate the Clippers but now I'm glad they fucken murked Golden State!!! HAHAHAHAHA... Ok I feel better now.

Anywhore!!!
Here's the video 2 hours of Sugar Ray Robinson in all his infinite glory with several fights of him at 147. Yes you read that right SRR at 147. I've done research myself and verified it. So if I can do it so can you ;) all it takes is time and patience to go thru the video and look up the names, date & weight. I can assure you it's there. Enjoy! you can all thank me with reputation points... ;D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vTyJ8kinc4

Sweet Pea is ranked so high because...?

(question aimed at anyone not just micky shades)