Printable View
When did i bring up Ward his career still young never said he was atg. I am saying Froch is not maybe the hof fine but atg come on now. I mean does that make Kessler atg to because there about the same. Atg is a huge fucking thing for a man who was never the man in his own division don't you think.
Groves is a very talented fighter but needs to learn to use at least a little more physicality in his fights. He is not David Haye so his power is not always going to be a great deterrent or an equaliser and he is not being massively out-weighed , so he needs to learn to tie-up and out-hustle. Keep fights working in his favour.
Not that he wasn't doing well against Carl but in hindsight, he shouldn't ever find himself fighting off the ropes. He's not that guy.
He has good feet and head movement. Shut-down and reset. That's the guy he needs to be.
Most would put Ward as an ATG (including me) but going by Resume his isnt much better then Froch. He also never fights away from home. Ward is 30 but going by his activity he dont have that many matches left in him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
I dont think Froch is an ATG at all. I actually dont rate him that highly at all. Groves is the only guy hes beaten who I think is any good and Ive always thought Groves was fragile. Kesseler is good but he looked pretty shot against Froch imo, Bute crumbled, Abraham and Taylor were MW and nowhere near top level at SMW
Does that mean that Ward is an all time great because he beat Froch ???Quote:
Originally Posted by SilkeyjoeMost would put Ward as an ATG (including me) but going by Resume his isnt much better then Froch. He also never fights away from home. Ward is 30 but going by his activity he dont have that many matches left in him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
I dont think Froch is an ATG at all. I actually dont rate him that highly at all. Groves is the only guy hes beaten who I think is any good and Ive always thought Groves was fragile. Kesseler is good but he looked pretty shot against Froch imo, Bute crumbled, Abraham and Taylor were MW and nowhere near top level at SMW
Well beating him so comfortably is impressive. Also beating a close to prime Kesseller helps. Things that go against him being an ATG is never fighting out of his country and rarely out of his own town. He should also move up in weight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimanuel BoogustusDoes that mean that Ward is an all time great because he beat Froch ???Quote:
Originally Posted by SilkeyjoeMost would put Ward as an ATG (including me) but going by Resume his isnt much better then Froch. He also never fights away from home. Ward is 30 but going by his activity he dont have that many matches left in him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
I dont think Froch is an ATG at all. I actually dont rate him that highly at all. Groves is the only guy hes beaten who I think is any good and Ive always thought Groves was fragile. Kesseler is good but he looked pretty shot against Froch imo, Bute crumbled, Abraham and Taylor were MW and nowhere near top level at SMW
I disagree, I think he is a great fighter, just was to early on in his career for him to fight froch
Not a great fighter but a good fighter. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by jakesmithnrb
you are the old man, boy. Jermaine Taylor was close to an ATG and if you dont think so you are really , really confused.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
Jermaine Taylor's his resume may not be ATG but it is an ass-kickin resume, and Froch beat this guy. Froch is ATG.
Here is Jermaine Taylor's highlights. Yeah he ran out of gas against Abraham and Pavlik as well. His record now is:
won 33 (KO 21) + lost 4 (KO 3) + drawn 1
rounds boxed 261 KO% 54.05
TAYLOR RAN OUT OF GAS BUT WAS AHEAD ON 2 OF 3 JUDGES' SCORECARDS WHEN FROCH WON:
2009-04-25 Carl Froch 24-0-0 L TKO 12 12
judge: Nobuaki Uratani 106-102 | judge: Omar Mintun 106-102 | judge: Jack Woodburn 102-106
WBC super middleweight title
Froch down in Round 3. Taylor down in Round 12.
2008-11-15 Jeff Lacy 26-1-0
Vanderbilt University Memorial Gymnasium, Nashville, Tennessee, USA W UD 12 12
2007-05-19 Cory Spinks 36-3-0 W SD 12 12
WBC middleweight title
WBO middleweight title
2006-12-09 Kassim Ouma 25-2-1 W UD 12 12
WBC middleweight title
WBO middleweight title
2006-06-17 Ronald Wright 50-3-0 D PTS 12 12
WBC middleweight title
WBO middleweight title
2005-12-03 Bernard Hopkins 46-3-1 W UD 12 12
WBC middleweight title
WBA Super World middleweight title
WBO middleweight title
2005-07-16 Bernard Hopkins 46-2-1 W SD 12 12
WBA Super World middleweight title (supervisor: George Martinez)
WBC middleweight title
IBF middleweight title
WBO middleweight title
2005-02-19 Daniel Edouard 19-0-2 TKO 3 10
2004-12-04 William Joppy 38-3-1
Barton Coliseum, Little Rock, Arkansas, USA W UD 12 12
WBC Continental Americas middleweight title
2004-06-19 Raul Marquez 35-1-0 RTD 9 12
WBC Continental Americas middleweight title
Corner retirement~Marquez down in round nine.
2004-03-27 Alex Bunema 24-2-2 W TKO 7 12
WBC Continental Americas middleweight title
2004-01-09 Alex Rios 23-0
Mohegan Sun Casino, Uncasville, Connecticut, USA W TKO 1 10
time: 0:54 | referee: Dick Flaherty | judge: Joe Dwyer | judge: Steve Epstein | judge: Steve Weisfeld
2003-11-08 Rogelio Martinez 13-1-1
Mandalay Bay Resort & Casino, Las Vegas, Nevada, USA W TKO 7 10
time: 1:42 | referee: Joe Cortez | judge: Duane Ford | judge: Al Lefkowitz | judge: Paul Smith
2003-08-08 Alfredo Cuevas 22-0-1
vacant WBC Continental Americas middleweight title
2003-05-17 Nicolas Cervera 35-3-1 W TKO 4 10
2003-03-31 Marcos Primera 14-3-1
The rec speaks for itself he was a great middleweight, a nothing super middleweight. Plain and simple. I don't see how Froch can be an ATG. He lost to the 2 best fighters he came up against.
Yea brock Talyor was really good at mw but even before Froch Pavlik kicked his ass. Talyor did nothing at smw and not a good win to have same with Abraham nothing at smw really. Froch was never the man at his weight class and has loses to best in his division not really atg maybe a hof. I am not saying Froch is shit but atg a big title to have and for a guy who was always number 2 or 3 and never number 1 at 168 i think that title is not for him. His resume is good but not good enough to point you can over look him never being the best.