Floyd, Manny, Hop, Roy legacy

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

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Originally Posted by La Cucaracha

What weight was Hatton champion at?
Why didn't Floyd fight him in '05 or '06 instead of Mitchell or Judah? Instead of in late '07 when Hatton's well noted weight gains between bouts had already deteriorated his resilience and had looked very ordinary against Collazo? :-\ I still think Floyd would have won (easy) but it would have been a more significant win ;)

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Floyd cherry picked a 2007 Hatton over a 2006 Hatton. LOL another great excuse to add to the mental scrap book.

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Who said cherry picked? Nice way to avoid the question :p I'm sure most would agree that the Hatton of '05 would have been a sterner test than the version Floyd faced in December '07 :-X

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Originally Posted by La Cucaracha

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

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Originally Posted by La Cucaracha

What weight was Hatton champion at?
Why didn't Floyd fight him in '05 or '06 instead of Mitchell or Judah? Instead of in late '07 when Hatton's well noted weight gains between bouts had already deteriorated his resilience and had looked very ordinary against Collazo? :-\ I still think Floyd would have won (easy) but it would have been a more significant win ;)

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Floyd cherry picked a 2007 Hatton over a 2006 Hatton. LOL another great excuse to add to the mental scrap book.

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Who said cherry picked? Nice way to avoid the question :p I'm sure most would agree that the Hatton of '05 would have been a sterner test than the version Floyd faced in December '07 :-X

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The floyd that fought Gatti would have defeated Chuck Norrris and Hatton in the same phone booth. Fact.

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Originally Posted by p4pking

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Originally Posted by La Cucaracha

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

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Originally Posted by La Cucaracha

What weight was Hatton champion at?
Why didn't Floyd fight him in '05 or '06 instead of Mitchell or Judah? Instead of in late '07 when Hatton's well noted weight gains between bouts had already deteriorated his resilience and had looked very ordinary against Collazo? :-\ I still think Floyd would have won (easy) but it would have been a more significant win ;)

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Floyd cherry picked a 2007 Hatton over a 2006 Hatton. LOL another great excuse to add to the mental scrap book.

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Who said cherry picked? Nice way to avoid the question :p I'm sure most would agree that the Hatton of '05 would have been a sterner test than the version Floyd faced in December '07 :-X

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The floyd that fought Gatti would have defeated Chuck Norrris and Hatton in the same phone booth. Fact.

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Agreed and I never said he wouldn't have :p but I would have given more credit to Floyd had he faced Hatton then instead of Gatti ;)

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Originally Posted by La Cucaracha

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Originally Posted by p4pking

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Originally Posted by La Cucaracha

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

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Originally Posted by La Cucaracha

What weight was Hatton champion at?
Why didn't Floyd fight him in '05 or '06 instead of Mitchell or Judah? Instead of in late '07 when Hatton's well noted weight gains between bouts had already deteriorated his resilience and had looked very ordinary against Collazo? :-\ I still think Floyd would have won (easy) but it would have been a more significant win ;)

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Floyd cherry picked a 2007 Hatton over a 2006 Hatton. LOL another great excuse to add to the mental scrap book.

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Who said cherry picked? Nice way to avoid the question :p I'm sure most would agree that the Hatton of '05 would have been a sterner test than the version Floyd faced in December '07 :-X

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The floyd that fought Gatti would have defeated Chuck Norrris and Hatton in the same phone booth. Fact.

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Agreed and I never said he wouldn't have :p but I would have given more credit to Floyd had he faced Hatton then instead of Gatti ;)

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Why did Floyd (and Oscar) avoid Kostya?

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

I think you might have missed my second post. I highlighted it above. Floyd would have beat Ricky Hatton anyway, 140 or not. I also think Ricky Hatton was better at 140. It might have been a more even fight because Floyd would have had to lose another 7 pounds, which might have been difficult for him. Floyd would have had to incorporate losing the 7 pounds into his training schedule and Hatton doing something he was was used to doing. So, we could have seen a closer match-up.

I still think Floyd is for sure a true welterweight. If Floyd wanted to fight at 140, he would fight at 140. He doesn't fight at 140 because he performs better at 147. 7 pounds is a ton of weight to lose in boxing. For a fighter who weighs 150 pounds losing ten pounds is losing 7% of your total body weight. When was the last time Floyd fought below 147? Why did Floyd not fight at 145 when he fought Marquez and was contracted to do so? You didn't answer it so I'll hazard a guess - because it was easier not to. If it was easier not to lose 2 pounds for Marquez, then it was much easier not to lose 7 to face Hatton at his prime weight.

In my opinion, this is a dumb argument because I think Floyd would still have won. He was a more well-rounded fighter.

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I'm pretty sure I answered the question: Floyd doesn't like cutting weight.

If Floyd was cutting weight like everyone else, he'd be fighting at 140. He doesn't cut weight so he fights at 147.

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He isn't cutting weight below 147 because it is hard for him to do it. It's not a "like" or "dislike" issue. And, if he doesn't like to cut weight it's because it is difficult for him to do.

With that said, here's what we agree on:

• It is difficult for Floyd to fight below 147. Evidence: He didn't do it against Marquez even though he was contractually required to.
  
• Hatton had more success at 140 than 147. Evidence: he didn't have a truly good win at 147. He had many at 140.

Therefore if they had faced each other at 140:

• Floyd would be fighting at a weight where he is less comfortable.
  
• Hatton would be fighting at weight he proved to perform best.

Accordingly, the fight very well might have been closer.

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Originally Posted by Master

Floyd may well have won at 140lb but it would have been much closer. Add to the fact that if it was under the conditions Kostya had to deal with in terms of the hostile conditions and Dave Paris then we may have got a Ricky victory.

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Why not jus give Ricky a steel chair while we're at it? lol ;)

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

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Originally Posted by mikeeod

I have to be honest, u just aren't making a rational argument, u r making an emotional one. U r saying that Floyd and Roy should be ranked higher because of how dominant they r and how great they looked. That is subjective, u r admitting that they fought inferior competition, but u r giving them credit since, in ur opinion, it wasn't their fault. What I'm saying is that while I agree with ur assessment of their abilities, I rank them lower based on the fact that they didn't make those fights and other guys did.

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I never admitted they fought inferior competition, I'm admitting there are guys that would have been interesting to see them in the ring with that they never fought.

I've gotten into the whole "inferior opposition" arguments on here regarding Floyd and Roy way too many times. People are going to believe what they want to believe. It makes no difference to me if people want to say Floyd and Roy stink and would get murdered by REAL fighters of the past.

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I think this is an issue with debating with people emotionally invested in a fighter. I never said Roy or Floyd stink or would be murdered by guys from the past. I said the opposite, that they are great fighters who I feel are capable of beating anyone who ever fought. All I said was that I rank them lower historically based on weaker quality of opposition, and I went on to explain why I felt that way. It seems like if people disagree and don't rank Floyd n Roy as high as you, you become offended and personally insulted.