TYSON,the most over rated fighter of all time,what did he ever do?

cc Seb,good post!!!

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Originally Posted by VanChilds

man it seems like this is discussed weekly. I have very mixed feelings about Tyson's placement in history. Tyson's wins are against mostly average fighters. Not that this is his fault and not that many fighters(marciano, Louis,holmes etc) don't have the same dilemma in regards to their legacy. I think quite often it wasn't who he beat but the electrifying way he did it. I often ask myself if Tyson was a defensive master who out pointed and embarrassed fighters would we feel the same way? If he was the pernell whitaker of the HW era would he have such a fan base? Tyson embodied what we as fans want in our champion. I think people quite often get wrapped up in the sheer entertainment value of Tyson. His wins over Berbick, Smith, Tucker, Ruddock, tubbs, thomas, biggs etc are impressive in that he cleaned out a division and in the manner he did them but the actual opposition is really just slightly better than average. Tyson has two great wins: the destruction of Spinks and Holmes. Although Holmes went on to several more decent wins I don't think anyone will argue that he was the same man who himself had cleaned out a division. And I don't think we will ever know why spinks gave such a sorry performance. The biggest problem with grading Tyson's career is that his "prime" was so short. He didn't face any truly good HW's in their prime until late in his career. Obviously Tyson's management decisions and personal demons had a lot to do with his decline as a fighter, but this is a part of who Tyson was as a fighter. He simply didn't have the dedication and focus of other great HW's. I look at him alot like Bowe. They both had all the skills to be ATG's but couldn't capitalize. I don't judge Tyson's career after the Lewis fighter b/c it was obvious he didn't care. That being said whether or not he came in poorly prepared he was beaten soundly by douglas, holy, and Lewis. Great fighters rise to the occasion and Tyson didn't. When he met fighters who weren't intimidated, were bigger, had a decent jab and could back him up and tie him up he was definately frustrated. Tyson is one of the greatest power punchers ever, and arguably the most exciting fighter ever. He will stand as an icon in boxing of what might of been, but in my personal oppinion not an all time great fighter .

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Right on.

We can say that Tyson may have been one of the greatest physical specimens of all time. Boxing is so much more then this. A boxer must be sharp and tough mentally as well, and they must rise to the occasion when things are not going there way.

This is why Ali is great... he never quit, and often prevailed when the man infront of him was physically better and younger. When the odds had him behind, he didn't give a damn and he prevailed with whatever he could make work for him.

If you call Tyson overrated because of the era he was in that you cannot fault him for. Then fighters like Marciano and Joe Louis and Jack Dempsey are overrated because of the era's they were in and Vitali Klitschko is even more overrated because he was in an even weaker era and never defended his title against true opposition. Tyson was the most dominant heavyweight of his era and deserves as much credit. Part of the era was taken from him because of his mistakes outside the ring but take nothing away from him. Because the knowledge is that if he had stayed retired after the Spinks fight, nobody would be calling him overrated today and they try to mirror the Tyson who fought late 90's early 00's as the Tyson who fought in the 80's and early 90's and you can't because there's a different mentality and different circumstances.

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Originally Posted by wacko3205

In all truthitude...I will always think that Tyson was decent but not a GOAT.

Tyson was more of a media made mythos than anything else...sure he looked great beating up bums & nobodies...but live wires really just humiliated Tyson & he fell apart.

That's not a great fighter. Fighters like that are a dime a dozen...but you couple that with the way that he & the media painted him...you got a heavy weight star.

Simple as that. Tyson's only worthy accomplishment IWO was winning the title @ such a young age.

That's it.

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o come on man! what planet are you from?


"Tyson was more of a media made mythos than anything else...sure he looked great beating up bums & nobodies...but live wires really just humiliated Tyson & he fell apart."

razor was a bum. bone crusher was a bum. tyrel was a bum. etc , etc............ he beat everyone around, and yet he was a bum? that is retarded. watch that berbick fight. "yea, mike was all hype"......... ::)

best ever? maybe not. best of his time no doubt. i say desree "the ho" ruined it all. buster got him, but desiree (or whatever that sluts name was/is) ruined mike. i hated mike untill she came along( o , and don "the crook" king.)

"TYSON,the most over rated fighter of all time"

is there a "dumbest post of the year award" on this site?

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Originally Posted by OumaFan

that's not my point, Joe might be overrated but he's not thought of on Tyson levels, who is? Nobody but the Ali's, SRL's, Hagler's, SSR, Hearns, and Tyson, who out of that group doesn't belong there? Tyson.

and what did Tyson really do to be thought of that highly, that's the point of being overrated, you're thought of as being on a level when your accomplishments haven't proved that you've deserved to be that high

nobody thinks of Calzaghe that highly, Tyson's a freaking icon, Calzaghe couldn't be farther from that status. Neither of them have done enough to deserve it but Tyson has reached that status, that's overrated.

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They don't put old Tyson in the same category with the greats nor do I. They place his potential, and younger years against Ali and Frazier and Foreman. What Tyson did was throw fast combinations very hard, and he had good technique. It's like with Roy Jones you don't compare the competition they faced you compare how fast and hard they hit, and in Roy's case how he took apart enemies to demonstrate how they would have beaten the greats of old.

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Originally Posted by °•P.G.H Angel Eyes•°

If you call Tyson overrated because of the era he was in that you cannot fault him for. Then fighters like Marciano and Joe Louis and Jack Dempsey are overrated because of the era's they were in and Vitali Klitschko is even more overrated because he was in an even weaker era and never defended his title against true opposition. Tyson was the most dominant heavyweight of his era and deserves as much credit. Part of the era was taken from him because of his mistakes outside the ring but take nothing away from him. Because the knowledge is that if he had stayed retired after the Spinks fight, nobody would be calling him overrated today and they try to mirror the Tyson who fought late 90's early 00's as the Tyson who fought in the 80's and early 90's and you can't because there's a different mentality and different circumstances.

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CC,nicely put and maybe if he had stayed retired,undefeated,undisputed then no-one could say anything.

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Originally Posted by SEB

once again a thread to bash Tyson...

yes this guy was a fraud for you that's why he has a astonishing pedigree.

That's why people talks about evander as the man who beat Tyson (if Tyson is so bad why is it THE reference for Evander?)

That's why everybody knows the name of Tyson

That's why the boxers and people who knows boxing knew that Tyson was really really gifted and an awesome machine who went wrong at some points.

That's Why Ali (which is mentionned as the greatest by Porky) always praised Tyson's skills

My favortie quote is "Green showed the limit if Tyson" dam if getting the beating of your life during 10 rounds is equal to performing well ^^

Ok I guess that I'm too tired, but another subject on that topic...about someone who won the title at 20 and unified the tittle....

Not the greatest, not the underrated clubfighter you wanna try to demonstrate neither.

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Mate Ali praises almost every boxer.

After he beat Joe Bugner Ali said that with a bit more training Bugner could be the next champ after Ali.

The point is take what Ali says with a bit of salt.


Dont get me wrong,I love watching Tyson fight and I think he is the most exciting fighter of all time,just he is totaly overrated in terms of skill.

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Originally Posted by BIG H

I don 't subscribe to all the crap about Tyson being overrrated, I just think everybody has short memories and remembers him for fights when he was already a shot fighter i.e after 89. It's like remembering Ali against Holmes or Berwick. I know Tyson was still at prime age, but he was ravaged by his own demons and almost certainly drugs! What he has become should not detract from what he was and had he retired after knocking out Spinks everybody on this site would have him as a top 5 all-time heavyweight.

People will now say... who did he beat? Well who did Demsey, Louis, Marciano or Jack Johnson beat. The heavyweight division has always been dominated by one or rwo fighters who were far superior to the rest!! Apart from the Early -Mid nineties and the early seventies, I think Tyson's era is as good as as bad as any other - so I don't subscribe to the "poor opposition" argument either

Don't get me wrong, I am not a fan of the guy, but even our resident expert Mr Britkid has previously said that during the late eighties he would've had Tyson up there as one of the all-time greats, but now he doesn't. You should rank people based on their prime or else Muhammad Ali, Ray Robinson, Roy Jones, Larry Holmes, Eric Morales (and just about every other fighter that didn't know when to pack it in) is overrated!!!

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very well said :coolclick:

interesting points

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Originally Posted by porkypara

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Originally Posted by SEB

once again a thread to bash Tyson...

yes this guy was a fraud for you that's why he has a astonishing pedigree.

That's why people talks about evander as the man who beat Tyson (if Tyson is so bad why is it THE reference for Evander?)

That's why everybody knows the name of Tyson

That's why the boxers and people who knows boxing knew that Tyson was really really gifted and an awesome machine who went wrong at some points.

That's Why Ali (which is mentionned as the greatest by Porky) always praised Tyson's skills

My favortie quote is "Green showed the limit if Tyson" dam if getting the beating of your life during 10 rounds is equal to performing well ^^

Ok I guess that I'm too tired, but another subject on that topic...about someone who won the title at 20 and unified the tittle....

Not the greatest, not the underrated clubfighter you wanna try to demonstrate neither.

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Mate Ali praises almost every boxer.

After he beat Joe Bugner Ali said that with a bit more training Bugner could be the next champ after Ali.

The point is take what Ali says with a bit of salt.


Dont get me wrong,I love watching Tyson fight and I think he is the most exciting fighter of all time,just he is totaly overrated in terms of skill.

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:coolclick:

I am not exactly soled on the fact he's overrated in terms of skill...he was very skilled and worked hard at it but I think when you try to compare him to Holyfield, Bowe, and Lewis he comes up short. Not because of skill becauce in his prime he would be able to go toe to toe with those guys, not win all the time but do well against them. The thing is Tyson burned out and that sucks but it's true...he was in an era where his main rivals were Frank Bruno, Mitch Green, and Tony Tucker....he was on the decline when he got to Holyfield and Lewis.

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Originally Posted by miles

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Originally Posted by BIG H

I don 't subscribe to all the crap about Tyson being overrrated, I just think everybody has short memories and remembers him for fights when he was already a shot fighter i.e after 89. It's like remembering Ali against Holmes or Berwick. I know Tyson was still at prime age, but he was ravaged by his own demons and almost certainly drugs! What he has become should not detract from what he was and had he retired after knocking out Spinks everybody on this site would have him as a top 5 all-time heavyweight.

People will now say... who did he beat? Well who did Demsey, Louis, Marciano or Jack Johnson beat. The heavyweight division has always been dominated by one or rwo fighters who were far superior to the rest!! Apart from the Early -Mid nineties and the early seventies, I think Tyson's era is as good as as bad as any other - so I don't subscribe to the "poor opposition" argument either

Don't get me wrong, I am not a fan of the guy, but even our resident expert Mr Britkid has previously said that during the late eighties he would've had Tyson up there as one of the all-time greats, but now he doesn't. You should rank people based on their prime or else Muhammad Ali, Ray Robinson, Roy Jones, Larry Holmes, Eric Morales (and just about every other fighter that didn't know when to pack it in) is overrated!!!

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very well said :coolclick:

interesting points

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Back at ya m8

is tyson is overrated then lewis is a complete bum D level fighter i mean, what has lennox lewis done? over half of his best wins were already beaten by tyson, so he made a career off of overrated tyson wash ups, and tyson sucks so lewis beating him is pointless

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Originally Posted by NewKid

is tyson is overrated then lewis is a complete bum D level fighter i mean, what has lennox lewis done? over half of his best wins were already beaten by tyson, so he made a career off of overrated tyson wash ups, and tyson sucks so lewis beating him is pointless

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One of my favourite posts ever!! I don't know but I think some people here give Lewis waaaaay more credit than he deserves. He was the good boxer from an average generation,he would not have lasted 6 rounds with a peak Mike and how people say he would last with Ali is ridiculous!!!

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Originally Posted by The Game

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Originally Posted by NewKid

is tyson is overrated then lewis is a complete bum D level fighter i mean, what has lennox lewis done? over half of his best wins were already beaten by tyson, so he made a career off of overrated tyson wash ups, and tyson sucks so lewis beating him is pointless

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One of my favourite posts ever!! I don't know but I think some people here give Lewis waaaaay more credit than he deserves. He was the good boxer from an average generation,he would not have lasted 6 rounds with a peak Mike and how people say he would last with Ali is ridiculous!!!

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Holyfield, Bowe,Tyson, Ruddock, Morrison, Moorer, Foreman, Tucker, Mercer, Bruno - not an everage generation fella!!

Not average per se but most were way past their primes!

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Originally Posted by NewKid

is tyson is overrated then lewis is a complete bum D level fighter i mean, what has lennox lewis done? over half of his best wins were already beaten by tyson, so he made a career off of overrated tyson wash ups, and tyson sucks so lewis beating him is pointless

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Sorry to say but Lewis beat everyone except Foreman... He beat Holyfied twice("draw" he won, and the second fight he won), Mercer, Tua, Bruno, Ruddock, Bowe(olympics, and Bowe was scared to fight him as a pro), Morrison, Grant(when he was considered good), Vitali(I think he was comming back closer to the end of the fight and he was out of shape for it anyways not to mention alot older), Briggs, He returned to destroy Rahman and McCall(not as much, but won), Botha, Golota. He fought more good people, and had a better record against them than anyone except Ali who didn't actually win alot of his fights against even mediocre competition during his time.

IMO Tyson would have lost to Lewis because of the size differential, and that Lewis still had speed to keep Tyson away, anyone else in history I think Tyson beats.

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Originally Posted by porkypara

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Originally Posted by OumaFan

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Originally Posted by Taeth

Did you watch him during his prime... the only thing that held him back from taking away Ali's crown was his mind. He more phyiscal gifts than any other fighter barring RJJ. Tyson had a good style not the best for him IMO, but he used it more efficiently than any other fighter ever has... Had he not broken down mentally so much he might still be champion defending his zillionth title because he definitely still has the physical assets.

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the mental aspect is of primary importance to boxing, just look at Bernard Hopkins who didn't have the physical gifts of an elite fighter but because he always stayed in shape, and always had a single minded devotion to the game became a great. Tyson's career is based on unfulfilled potential

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nah,Tyson didn't lack balls. He didn't lack anything other than direction. He had insane work ethic in his prime (early 20's) but then he came across Don King, took his skills for granted, and spiraled out of control
Spopt on mate!
Have a CC.

Tyson had the potental but lacked the balls!

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A lot of good arguments...maybe there was one, but i didn't see it..so I'll say this...Does anybody want to give credit to DonKing for making tyson the name that he is...He did put him the ring with a bunch of stiffs that he could knock out in the first round...It kinda reminds me of Mayweather said about Gatti... "HBO takes two C-rated fighters, put them in the ring, they have a war and now they're great fighters, bullshit they're still c-rated fighters", the same with tyson...great punching power + a weak chin = a short night...

Personally i thought that tyson did loose to all the real heavyweights he fought and he only beat an old larry holmes...who probably would have beat tyson into submission with that excellent jab had he been a few years younger...

So I think he was great to watch, but with the help of great marketing..but as great heavyweight fighter hell no...not even in the top ten....

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Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather

A lot of good arguments...maybe there was one, but i didn't see it..so I'll say this...Does anybody want to give credit to DonKing for making tyson the name that he is...He did put him the ring with a bunch of stiffs that he could knock out in the first round...It kinda reminds me of Mayweather said about Gatti... "HBO takes two C-rated fighters, put them in the ring, they have a war and now they're great fighters, bulls*** they're still c-rated fighters", the same with tyson...great punching power + a weak chin = a short night...

Personally i thought that tyson did loose to all the real heavyweights he fought and he only beat an old larry holmes...who probably would have beat tyson into submission with that excellent jab had he been a few years younger...

So I think he was great to watch, but with the help of great marketing..but as great heavyweight fighter hell no...not even in the top ten....

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He also beat Michael Spinks and a few others. But, Tyson was also knocking out big bums before he got with Don King Productions.

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Originally Posted by drgoodlooking

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Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather

A lot of good arguments...maybe there was one, but i didn't see it..so I'll say this...Does anybody want to give credit to DonKing for making tyson the name that he is...He did put him the ring with a bunch of stiffs that he could knock out in the first round...It kinda reminds me of Mayweather said about Gatti... "HBO takes two C-rated fighters, put them in the ring, they have a war and now they're great fighters, bulls*** they're still c-rated fighters", the same with tyson...great punching power + a weak chin = a short night...

Personally i thought that tyson did loose to all the real heavyweights he fought and he only beat an old larry holmes...who probably would have beat tyson into submission with that excellent jab had he been a few years younger...

So I think he was great to watch, but with the help of great marketing..but as great heavyweight fighter hell no...not even in the top ten....

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He also beat Michael Spinks and a few others. But, Tyson was also knocking out big bums before he got with Don King Productions.

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That's why I said real heavyweights...spinks wasn't a real heavyweight...that's like giving credit to joe frazier for knocking out Bob foster.... Now tyson didn't beat some contenders...ruddock, tucker, berbick, but none of these guys where on a level high enough to warrant tyson any credit to be called great....

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Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather

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Originally Posted by drgoodlooking

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Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather

A lot of good arguments...maybe there was one, but i didn't see it..so I'll say this...Does anybody want to give credit to DonKing for making tyson the name that he is...He did put him the ring with a bunch of stiffs that he could knock out in the first round...It kinda reminds me of Mayweather said about Gatti... "HBO takes two C-rated fighters, put them in the ring, they have a war and now they're great fighters, bulls*** they're still c-rated fighters", the same with tyson...great punching power + a weak chin = a short night...

Personally i thought that tyson did loose to all the real heavyweights he fought and he only beat an old larry holmes...who probably would have beat tyson into submission with that excellent jab had he been a few years younger...

So I think he was great to watch, but with the help of great marketing..but as great heavyweight fighter hell no...not even in the top ten....

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He also beat Michael Spinks and a few others. But, Tyson was also knocking out big bums before he got with Don King Productions.

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That's why I said real heavyweights...spinks wasn't a real heavyweight...that's like giving credit to joe frazier for knocking out Bob foster.... Now tyson didn't beat some contenders...ruddock, tucker, berbick, but none of these guys where on a level high enough to warrant tyson any credit to be called great....

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Spinks was big enough against Holmes and Cooney - both bigger guys than Tyson ;)

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Originally Posted by BIG H

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Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather

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Originally Posted by drgoodlooking

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Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather

A lot of good arguments...maybe there was one, but i didn't see it..so I'll say this...Does anybody want to give credit to DonKing for making tyson the name that he is...He did put him the ring with a bunch of stiffs that he could knock out in the first round...It kinda reminds me of Mayweather said about Gatti... "HBO takes two C-rated fighters, put them in the ring, they have a war and now they're great fighters, bulls*** they're still c-rated fighters", the same with tyson...great punching power + a weak chin = a short night...

Personally i thought that tyson did loose to all the real heavyweights he fought and he only beat an old larry holmes...who probably would have beat tyson into submission with that excellent jab had he been a few years younger...

So I think he was great to watch, but with the help of great marketing..but as great heavyweight fighter hell no...not even in the top ten....

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He also beat Michael Spinks and a few others. But, Tyson was also knocking out big bums before he got with Don King Productions.

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That's why I said real heavyweights...spinks wasn't a real heavyweight...that's like giving credit to joe frazier for knocking out Bob foster.... Now tyson didn't beat some contenders...ruddock, tucker, berbick, but none of these guys where on a level high enough to warrant tyson any credit to be called great....

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Spinks was big enough against Holmes and Cooney - both bigger guys than Tyson ;)

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Both Holmes and Cooney were both past there best when Spinks fought them.

Also Spinks was probably past his best when he fought Tyson.Both his knees were shot to bits.Watch the fight and they are both wrapped up.

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Originally Posted by porkypara

Apart from winning the WBC HW title at a young age what ever did Tyson do?

In every hard fight he had he lost.

If someone stood up to him he crumbeled.

He was a classic school yard bully.loved to beat on smaller
blokes.

He never came back from defeat.

Quit when the going got tough.


TYSON IS THE MOST OVERRATED BOXER EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!

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That post is hilarious....proof that care in teh community doesn't work!

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Originally Posted by BIG H

I don 't subscribe to all the crap about Tyson being overrrated, I just think everybody has short memories and remembers him for fights when he was already a shot fighter i.e after 89. It's like remembering Ali against Holmes or Berwick. I know Tyson was still at prime age, but he was ravaged by his own demons and almost certainly drugs! What he has become should not detract from what he was and had he retired after knocking out Spinks everybody on this site would have him as a top 5 all-time heavyweight.

People will now say... who did he beat? Well who did Demsey, Louis, Marciano or Jack Johnson beat. The heavyweight division has always been dominated by one or rwo fighters who were far superior to the rest!! Apart from the Early -Mid nineties and the early seventies, I think Tyson's era is as good as as bad as any other - so I don't subscribe to the "poor opposition" argument either

Don't get me wrong, I am not a fan of the guy, but even our resident expert Mr Britkid has previously said that during the late eighties he would've had Tyson up there as one of the all-time greats, but now he doesn't. You should rank people based on their prime or else Muhammad Ali, Ray Robinson, Roy Jones, Larry Holmes, Eric Morales (and just about every other fighter that didn't know when to pack it in) is overrated!!!

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That speach was stunning. If I'm ever ontrial, I want u to be my defence lawyer!

Seriously, I agree with everything u said.

...he really left out Holyfield...that would have put more into that final statement

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Originally Posted by 1st rd ko

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Originally Posted by wacko3205

In all truthitude...I will always think that Tyson was decent but not a GOAT.

Tyson was more of a media made mythos than anything else...sure he looked great beating up bums & nobodies...but live wires really just humiliated Tyson & he fell apart.

That's not a great fighter. Fighters like that are a dime a dozen...but you couple that with the way that he & the media painted him...you got a heavy weight star.

Simple as that. Tyson's only worthy accomplishment IWO was winning the title @ such a young age.

That's it.

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o come on man! what planet are you from?


"Tyson was more of a media made mythos than anything else...sure he looked great beating up bums & nobodies...but live wires really just humiliated Tyson & he fell apart."

razor was a bum. bone crusher was a bum. tyrel was a bum. etc , etc............ he beat everyone around, and yet he was a bum? that is retarded. watch that berbick fight. "yea, mike was all hype"......... ::)

best ever? maybe not. best of his time no doubt. i say desree "the ho" ruined it all. buster got him, but desiree (or whatever that sluts name was/is) ruined mike. i hated mike untill she came along( o , and don "the crook" king.)

"TYSON,the most over rated fighter of all time"

is there a "dumbest post of the year award" on this site?

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Yeah, I'll vote this thread for that award. Totally agree.

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Originally Posted by rob7022000

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Originally Posted by BIG H

I don 't subscribe to all the crap about Tyson being overrrated, I just think everybody has short memories and remembers him for fights when he was already a shot fighter i.e after 89. It's like remembering Ali against Holmes or Berwick. I know Tyson was still at prime age, but he was ravaged by his own demons and almost certainly drugs! What he has become should not detract from what he was and had he retired after knocking out Spinks everybody on this site would have him as a top 5 all-time heavyweight.

People will now say... who did he beat? Well who did Demsey, Louis, Marciano or Jack Johnson beat. The heavyweight division has always been dominated by one or rwo fighters who were far superior to the rest!! Apart from the Early -Mid nineties and the early seventies, I think Tyson's era is as good as as bad as any other - so I don't subscribe to the "poor opposition" argument either

Don't get me wrong, I am not a fan of the guy, but even our resident expert Mr Britkid has previously said that during the late eighties he would've had Tyson up there as one of the all-time greats, but now he doesn't. You should rank people based on their prime or else Muhammad Ali, Ray Robinson, Roy Jones, Larry Holmes, Eric Morales (and just about every other fighter that didn't know when to pack it in) is overrated!!!

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That speach was stunning. If I'm ever ontrial, I want u to be my defence lawyer!

Seriously, I agree with everything u said.

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Haha - thanks fella :coolclick:

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Originally Posted by BIG H

I don 't subscribe to all the crap about Tyson being overrrated, I just think everybody has short memories and remembers him for fights when he was already a shot fighter i.e after 89. It's like remembering Ali against Holmes or Berwick. I know Tyson was still at prime age, but he was ravaged by his own demons and almost certainly drugs! What he has become should not detract from what he was and had he retired after knocking out Spinks everybody on this site would have him as a top 5 all-time heavyweight.

People will now say... who did he beat? Well who did Demsey, Louis, Marciano or Jack Johnson beat. The heavyweight division has always been dominated by one or rwo fighters who were far superior to the rest!! Apart from the Early -Mid nineties and the early seventies, I think Tyson's era is as good as as bad as any other - so I don't subscribe to the "poor opposition" argument either

Don't get me wrong, I am not a fan of the guy, but even our resident expert Mr Britkid has previously said that during the late eighties he would've had Tyson up there as one of the all-time greats, but now he doesn't. You should rank people based on their prime or else Muhammad Ali, Ray Robinson, Roy Jones, Larry Holmes, Eric Morales (and just about every other fighter that didn't know when to pack it in) is overrated!!!

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lol, ive probably made a similar speech myself.
There are so many threads about Tyson being overrated, i cant be bothered to replie anymore.
CC BIGH ;)

CC Back at Ya ;)

I think he is overrated, but not of alltime he's as about as overrated as a more recent fighter i.e. his good buddy ZAD JUDAH or even i.e. Fernando vargas...

It's that those that think that it's as tyson once said "it's ludacris" to think that he's overrated can't give any credentials that make him great...so he knocked out a lot of bums...I mean the epitome of the word "bum", anytime you fight 27 times in two years you're fighting bums...

http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=000474

this is just to give good visual info on the bums...click on any one of his so called real opponents..other than the obvious ones that he lost to...holyfield, lewis, douglass...the old larry holmes & spinks....he didn't beat anybody...even berbick was on his way out....

This guy is isn't great because he knocked out bums in the first round... here's anther guy with more knockouts than tyson...is he an alltime great?

http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=000474

That's butterbean..in case you don't know...and they have a few common opponents...tyson has his place in history because he was the youngest heavyweight not because he was great....

Funny that nobody questioned his opponents at the time!! Can you tell me during the eighties who he didn't fight that he should have?? Just because he didn't fight in the greatest era doesn't mean his opponents were bums, they were the best fighters of that time. As I said in an earlier thread your rationality also applies to Louis, Dempsey & Marciano to name a few great heavyweights who were far superior to the rest of their era!!

IMO Lewis is overatted more than Mike is.

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Originally Posted by cockey cockney

IMO Lewis is overatted more than Mike is.

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To an extent, Lewis is just so conservative until I can't stand him.

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Originally Posted by porkypara

Apart from winning the WBC HW title at a young age what ever did Tyson do?

In every hard fight he had he lost.

If someone stood up to him he crumbeled.

He was a classic school yard bully.loved to beat on smaller
blokes.

He never came back from defeat.

Quit when the going got tough.


TYSON IS THE MOST OVERRATED BOXER EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Sorry, but you haven't got a clue!

Tyson was an awesome fighter at his peak and he lit up a division in decline. Being Heavyweight Champion at such a young age is obviously a great achievement, but Tyson also made very good fighters look distinctly average when he was at his best. Simply put, Mike Tyson at his best is more than capable of beating any heavyweight throughout boxing history.
Everyone is aware that Tyson's desire diminished even before the Douglas fight, and i agree with many people when they say changing trainers etc didn't help Tyson, and he certainly had mental problems. However, he was still a very dangerous fighter, even at half the fighter he used to be when he got out of prison.

You say that every hard fight Tyson had he lost! That's a ridiculous comment in my opinion. He had hard fights against many good fighters and won i.e. Green, Tucker, Smith, Biggs, Ruddock... He also made hard fights on paper, look easy!

You say that if someone stood up to him he crumbled and you're baseing that theory on Tyson's latter years i take it i.e. the losses against Holyfield, and Lewis?
The reason i don't warrant a mention for either Williams or McBride is simply this; Tyson damaged his knee against Williams (maybe he'd have quit anyway, who knows???) and he'd lost interest completely by the time he fought McBride - two fighters who'd have hit the canvas from the breeze of one of Tyson's shots at his best. It's common knowledge that Tyson was fighting for the money more than ever at this stage in his career yet he still attracted the crowds and interest. Fascination that can only be equalled by Ali in my opinion. Fascination not attributed to an over rated fighter.

You go on to say that Tyson was a classic school yard bully, loved to beat on smaller blokes??? If you are referring to when he was actually in school (which wasn't very often by all accounts) i won't labour the point because by all accounts he was a bully. However, if you're referring to his boxing career i'd tend to disagree as many of the fighters he faced were much taller than him obviously. He didn't bully these fighters, he had that fear factor that had men beat before they got to the ring.

You say Tyson never came back from defeat... True he never avenged any losses, but he'd have beaten Douglas easily if there was to be an immediate re-match, Holyfield seemed the have a 'past his peak' Tyson's number, Lewis 'cemented his legacy' against a completely washed up Tyson who showed amazing courage, and again i won't dwell on Williams or McBride's achievements which of-course they can be proud of, but they must know themselves that they shouldn't put too much emphasis on beating Mike Tyson at that stage in his career, and that's not being unfair, that's just being honest.

OK, he quit when the going got tough, yes, against Williams, and McBride... like i've said he damaged his knee against Williams, and he did the right thing to quit against McBride because a fighter as limited as McBride should never have been seen beating on Mike Tyson, let alone putting him into retirment. It was a sad end to Tyson's career, but the most over rated boxer ever??? Absolutely not!
True there are fighters you'd certainly rate higher than Tyson but what Tyson achieved was still great and in my opinion he's one of the all time greats. Yes he regressed over the years and with obvious reason but tell me, how can you say he is the most over rated boxer ever??? it defies belief. If you have his career on DVD, try watching it and think again!

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Originally Posted by porkypara

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Originally Posted by SEB

once again a thread to bash Tyson...

yes this guy was a fraud for you that's why he has a astonishing pedigree.

That's why people talks about evander as the man who beat Tyson (if Tyson is so bad why is it THE reference for Evander?)

That's why everybody knows the name of Tyson

That's why the boxers and people who knows boxing knew that Tyson was really really gifted and an awesome machine who went wrong at some points.

That's Why Ali (which is mentionned as the greatest by Porky) always praised Tyson's skills

My favortie quote is "Green showed the limit if Tyson" dam if getting the beating of your life during 10 rounds is equal to performing well ^^

Ok I guess that I'm too tired, but another subject on that topic...about someone who won the title at 20 and unified the tittle....

Not the greatest, not the underrated clubfighter you wanna try to demonstrate neither.

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Mate Ali praises almost every boxer.

After he beat Joe Bugner Ali said that with a bit more training Bugner could be the next champ after Ali.

The point is take what Ali says with a bit of salt.


Dont get me wrong,I love watching Tyson fight and I think he is the most exciting fighter of all time,just he is totaly overrated in terms of skill.

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P.S. You really are talking rubbish!!!
Over rated in terms of skill???
Tyson was an unbelievably skilled fighter in his peak!

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Originally Posted by Taeth

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Originally Posted by NewKid

is tyson is overrated then lewis is a complete bum D level fighter i mean, what has lennox lewis done? over half of his best wins were already beaten by tyson, so he made a career off of overrated tyson wash ups, and tyson sucks so lewis beating him is pointless

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Sorry to say but Lewis beat everyone except Foreman... He beat Holyfied twice("draw" he won, and the second fight he won), Mercer, Tua, Bruno, Ruddock, Bowe(olympics, and Bowe was scared to fight him as a pro), Morrison, Grant(when he was considered good), Vitali(I think he was comming back closer to the end of the fight and he was out of shape for it anyways not to mention alot older), Briggs, He returned to destroy Rahman and McCall(not as much, but won), Botha, Golota. He fought more good people, and had a better record against them than anyone except Ali who didn't actually win alot of his fights against even mediocre competition during his time.

IMO Tyson would have lost to Lewis because of the size differential, and that Lewis still had speed to keep Tyson away, anyone else in history I think Tyson beats.

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If Tyson would've lost to Lewis at their respective best just because of siza differential, then i think we'd be seeing a lot more L's on Tyson's record.
Tyson knocks out Lewis at his best, no problem!

Lewis wasn't even a pro when Tyson was at his best...Lewis started pro boxing in 89...just a tad late for the prime Tyson....I figure had Tyson ever thought about working the body vs Lewis he MAY have had more of the puncher's chance....I still have no idea why he just gave up like he did, and I don't mean about not getting up, he got his ass whipped but he just didn't bother to attack or cover up or anything....all this goes back to how he never changed his style to adapt to his age...he should have thrown more quick punches and less haymaker type bombs, he would have had a load more stamina and more than likely been able to win more rounds too

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Lewis wasn't even a pro when Tyson was at his best...Lewis started pro boxing in 89...just a tad late for the prime Tyson....I figure had Tyson ever thought about working the body vs Lewis he MAY have had more of the puncher's chance....I still have no idea why he just gave up like he did, and I don't mean about not getting up, he got his ass whipped but he just didn't bother to attack or cover up or anything....all this goes back to how he never changed his style to adapt to his age...he should have thrown more quick punches and less haymaker type bombs, he would have had a load more stamina and more than likely been able to win more rounds too

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Yes i know Lewis wasn't pro when Tyson was at his best, but in terms of both fighters at their peak, Tyson knocks out Lewis.
Tyson never changed his style because he didn't want to, he wasn't as committed as he had been in his earlier years, but much of what you say is right in theory, however, the fact remains that Tyson simply wanted to land a big shot to knock out Lewis and didn't have the motivation to change tact. Around the time Lewis and Tyson fought i'd say that this is when people generally feel that Lennox Lewis was at his best, or in his prime, whatever way you want to put it...
Now think of the prime Tyson facing that Lewis...

I think Lewis would have fought a Prime Tyson differently yet even more effectively....Tyson ate right uppercuts throughout his career and Lewis had that in his arsenal big time! I think Lewis would fight a Prime Tyson like he fought Tua, safe and methodically

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Originally Posted by Lyle

I think Lewis would have fought a Prime Tyson differently yet even more effectively....Tyson ate right uppercuts throughout his career and Lewis had that in his arsenal big time! I think Lewis would fight a Prime Tyson like he fought Tua, safe and methodically

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HaHa, Tyson ate ears too... he'd have been more than a match for anything Lewis had to bring. Still i like the way you think, the only problem is Tyson (in his prime) would've gave him far more to think about than Tua did, Tua looked for one big shot much as the ageing Tyson did against Lewis.