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Cotto's attitude and actions are 100% indefensible. You can fight at whatever catchweight you like but call yourself middleweight champ, and put a road block in the middle of the division, don't be surprised when people call a spade a spade. Fake, phony BS from Cotto who has clearly bottled it. Rare for a professional prize fighter but the guy is running around with his tail between his legs.
Everybody agrees Manny against Floyd would have been a much better fight in 2009. But it was a far bigger and more profitable event in 2015.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise
So that just makes it OK, than right? Anyway for you to say I'm "slagging" Cotto cuz of his nationality is 100% inaccurate. I'm "slagging" him for refusing to face Alvarez. You make Cotto Japanese or from the UK and I promise you I'm coming down on him just the same for not facing Alvarez.Quote:
Originally Posted by bzkfnAlvarez may well surpass Cotto, but you're slagging Cotto because of his nationality not because of his record. To say Cotto should be fighting the best middleweights out there is fair enough, but hardly any fighter does that nowadays. Cotto already beat the lineal middleweight champ and the majority of people on here thought he'd lose that. When Alvarez won his light-middleweight title he defended against a string of mediocre welterweights like Gomez & Cintron.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseCotto took the fight against Martinez cuz it was easy pick-ins. Everybody knew Martinez knee was gone. Cotto don't give a damn about the middleweight title. If he did he would be defending it against the best middleweights out there. Or at least against the best opponent available. But he's not. For someone who says there a fan of Alvarez you sure are selling him short. Facts don't lie. And the facts are Alvarez is on a accelerated pace to surpass Cotto and several other superstar accomplishments. Alvarez has already beaten Lara, Kirkland, Angulo, Trout and has been in the ring against the best fighter in the world (Mayweather). And all he's trying to do now is get in ring against the middleweight champion (and he gets hated on for that). And he's only 24 years old. Aside from Japanese monster Naoya Inoue name me a fighter that has beaten that level of opposition at 24 years old. At 24 years old Cotto was fighting Demetrio Ceballos and Rocky Martinez. Mediocre fighters nowhere near the level of Lara or Trout. Now tell me. What facts did I twist now?Quote:
Originally Posted by bzkfnCotto took the history making fight with Martinez, which turned out to be an exceptional business decision. He only turned it down the 2nd time because of his promotional situation. You're twisting facts again. Like I've said, I'm a huge fan of Canelo but lets not pretend he's even achieved anything on the level of Cotto. Also, I don't see Canelo negotiating with Golovkin, instead he fought the mediocre, steamrolled James Kirkland.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise
You're looking at little things to pick at the career of a great fighter purely because he's from Puerto Rico. I didn't catch you slagging Juan Manuel Marquez when people said he was ducking Provodnikov and he chose to fight Alvarado instead. If Cotto was Mexican you'd be licking his bollocks and you know it.
All this hating on Alvarez opposition is ridiculous. And it shows ignorance. True boxing fans regard his early opposition as on the job training. Once he learned what he had to learn he's done what he can to take on the best. Alvarez wanted to face Cotto back in 2002. The fight failed to materialize cuz Cotto lost to Austin Trout. So what did Alvarez do? He took on Trout. Than it was the best fighter in the world, Mayweather. That was followed by a get well fight not against a D level opponent like Delvin Rodriguez. But a B fighter in Alfredo Angulo. Than came a fight against the best fighter in the division Erislandy Lara. After trying and failing to make a fight against Cotto he settles for a fight against Kirkland. And he's still gets hated on. Un fucking believable
Cotto is going to fight Alvarez. There's no two ways about it. It's going to happen if he beats Geale at the weekend. And the fight will be a massiv ePPV event, bigger than it would haven been a few years ago. It won't be Floyd-Manny but it'll make a ton of money more than it would have done before, and that's mainly why Cotto has waited to make the fight now.
If Cotto beats Geale and Canelo, I can see Cotto fight Floyd next year for the middleweight title.
Sickening.
Chances are he (Geale) won't. But Cotto has to stop Canelo if he wants to win. Let's face it, Cotto is on the way out. Quicker if he were to fight GGG, then there would be nothing left after he gets dominated by GGG. If Cotto wants his last big win, then knocking out Canelo would be the best bet.Quote:
Originally Posted by bzkfn
Let's face it: Canelo is the upside, post-marketable name.
Generally I don't have a problem with catchweights but even I think this is frigging bollocks. If you're gonna masquerade as the middleweight champ then the opponent should at least be allowed to weigh 160.
There's no penalty clause if Geale comes in above 157. So if he weighs in at 160 the WBC would still have to recognize the fight. Would Cotto/Roc Nation pull the plug? (stolen from Steve Kim)
This is a bunch of bullshit dude is the mw champ yet he has not faced the real champ what kinda of shit is that dude. Hope gets his ass kicked Trout style so the divsion can have a real champ like it should. GGG going to be waiting for ever at this point and that is just bs no repsect for it at all.
Hard to respect Cotto but have to assume that he is all about making money and taking minimal risks.
this isnt a fore gone conclusion
geales miles bigger than cotto
would cotto Sturm be a miss match?
i am a cotto fan, always have been but i dont reckon he would last a couple of rounds with golovkin
Geale v Cotto is an evenly matched fight
Cotto's people are idiots for not having a penalty in the contract and Geale is an idiot if he doesn't come in at 160.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
The Wbc has already said that they will allow Cotto to skip over the Kazak once the Geale fight is done and make the fight with Alvarez as long as the winner agrees via contract to fight the Kazak next. You see there is always an end justifies the means rule with the Wbc.
What does this mean exactly? It means Geale will need a ko to get a decision and even that could end in controversy. Anything at all takes place and you can be rest assured that it favours Cotto no matter what it is. I mean imagine if Geale wins?????? The beast from the east already demolished him. He becomes a bigger paper belt holder then Cotto and the money trail goes cold. Whats the Wbc going to do then? Your super duper lineal champion was already pulverized by the regular one.
Eh i think Cotto has a great chance to lose it was not to long ago that Trout beat his ass and then the division can get back on track. I really don't a champ that not going to face the best in the divsion because whats the fucking point then might as well not have the belt.
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Originally Posted by Mr140
I hope you don't hang yourself when Cotto beats Geale. ;)
That's been my problem with them all along. The exception has been becoming the rule for the simplest of "gimme" fights. Used as a technicality to ensure co champs retain the marketing tag regardless of outcome, trumped up as showcases or in Rod Salkas case...a well orchestrated infomercial set up. Catchweight Cotto is bringing it to near embarrassment with this insisting on having it both ways. You either step up fully or you don't. We have jumped the shark with catchweights..its fookin lunacy ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
If Geale comes in at 160 and manages to beat Cotto I will laugh my balls off. I really will. It'll be the best result since Maidana did Broner.
Well its a long shot for the guy so i am not counting on it but Trout beat Cotto ass so maybe who knows. Also you seem awful ok with Cotto fighting some weak ass shit after getting the belt and ducking GGG strait up when he is the champ. Wonder why you are letting it go this time let me think about it if it was Pac or Mayweather ducking then its a big deal but Cotto strait up ducks the best guy in his division as lineal champ. This is the first time he has ever been Lineal champ and he fucking ducks the best guy in the division in GGG thats kinda bullshit is it not.
I'D RATHER SEE GGG VS CANELO AND WINNER GETS COTTO!!! Cotto has put many years into boxing I think about 14 years or so but has fought the best possible his whole career.
He already beat the real champ, which means Cotto is the real champ. Golovkin never beat the man in the division yet you're calling him the real champ because he has a superb knockout ratio. I genuinely think it's dumb to be hating on a guy who's had one fight at Middleweight and beaten the guy who was #1 to do it. Geale is his 2nd fight at the weight FFS. There guys such as Peter Quillin who have always fought at Middleweight who won't go near a fucking live body at their own weightclass who don't receive as much hate as this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
You're mistaken hatred for proving a point. I don't hate Alvarez, he's one of of my favourite fighters. I'm merely proving a point that you can twist and pick holes in a record however you like. If Cotto wins tonight I'll bet that the Alvarez fight happens next.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise
Also, just because I've supported Cotto's record does not mean I'm supportive of catchweights. Catchweight fights are bullshit. If you're the champion at 160, then 160 is the limit. There should be no arguments on this.
Ok so Cotto the man right why the fuck is he not facing GGG then there no reason why not he is the guy the fight no one else. Cotto fighting Geale is bullshit and holds the division up because he ducking the guy he should be fight and is also making sure he won't fight GGG after this fight either.
I wouldn't fight GGG either if I was Cotto. The Canelo fight will be much bigger than anything he can make with Golovkin. Plus, of course, Cotto, like everyone else, knows GGG would blast him into outer space.
The lineal champion doesn't mean you're the best in the division, especially in this multi-title age. Not to knock Cotto, he's great fighter, but he beat an old fading cripple to become middleweight champ. Old Serg wouldn't have made it out of round 2 with Andy Lee let alone GGG.
I agree I'd like to see the division unified but Golovkin could fight Andy Lee or the winner of the Lemieux-N'Dam fight to unify. It's not holding up the division to win a title and defend it against a 2 time former world champion. He's had 1 fight a Middleweight. Just 1 fight. Nothing wrong with taking a tune up. You could pretty much hate on anyone at boxing for doing this. Why isn't Deontay Wilder fight Wladimir Klitschko right after winning the title instead of Eric Molina? Why are Stevenson and Kovalev not fighting each other? Why is Danny Garcia holding onto his 140 titles and refusing to fight at 140? Why will no 122lber fight Rigondeaux? Why is Andre Ward still WBA Champion after not fighting for 2 years and is now fighting Paul Smith above the division limit? All Cotto is doing is testing the waters by fighting another guy and maximising his bank account. He beats him, it looks like Canelo is next. He beats him then it has to GGG according to the WBC. The only problem I see with what he's doing is the catchweight. The governing bodies need to set it straight that if you fight for a title then the division limit is the weight limit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
Look the problem is that GGG should of got the shot for the gold instead of Cotto as far middle weights go he was knocking them out should of got his shot. I am just pissed that going to take yet another year for GGG to get the ring belt thats it so hoping Cotto loeses so GGG gets a shot he needs.
I don't see why 2 divisions are in a holding pattern because 1 fighter decides he wants a retirement plan now that hes on the decline and wants to redesign the rules so hes able to do it. This primadonna crap has to end. Fighters picking creating their own weights to defend titles, choosing their opponents gloves, choosing drug testing agencies, who gets to announce a fight, and other fringe details to create advantages for themselves.
This is not the customary champion gets announced second or top billing or possible chooses the ring size. It makes a joke out of the sport when you have a guy whos got more in recognition in getting beat up than winning, talking this A side/ B-side nonsense while holding belts hostage and trying to dictate what a canelo or GGG should get when fighting him... Then again, this garbage started with Floyd a top fighter in the sport that dictates his opponents cut, fight date, location, announcement, drug agency, and every other detail (except gloves for manny) and then calls the other guy a sore loser. Khan, a guy who hasn't really been able to keep himself on the map but says Brooks not good enough to fight him yet. Garcia, another fighter trying to create his own weight division, so he can hold on to titles he wont defend rest on his laurels. Aside from cotto, what do all these fighters have in common. Al Haymon...
Whatever happened to the day when the guy at the top of the mountain took on all comers and conquered to prove he was the best. Mandatory challengers at least had the option of step aside money if a champ wanted to unify and then were still in line for a shot at the unified title later. -- now you even have someone like malignaggi on the outside, trying to make his reality more palatable by trying to goad someone into fighting him so he doesn't have to fight nobodies after his drubbing at the hands of porter. And still I can't really hold it against Malignaggi. He doesn't hold any belts, titles etc. So the boxing world goes on without him whether or not he gets what he wants.
All those so called businessmen are trying to make boxing their own private playground and just as outside the only way that they will go away is if the public stops buying what they're selling. Perhaps the boxing public needs to have its own belt for each division. That way the stock drops on whatever dirty alphabet org is taking money under the table or crooked promoter is using them to hype his fighters. Its pretty obvious there will be no central governing body now as all the crooks have too much to lose.
...just my opinion...
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Originally Posted by bzkfn
The answer to all of this is the ol' double standard. Boxing fans are notorious for not holding all fighters to the same standards or not using the same measuring stick for all. Regardless of what shape Martinez was in when Cotto fought him, the fight went on as scheduled. And yes, it WAS Cotto's 1st fight at middleweight. Granted, I've always thought Cotto is too small for MW. I'm not a fan of catchweights, either. But if Cotto gets past Geale, and I'm hoping that he does, he's got a verbal commitment to face Canelo.... and then everything regarding GGG right now is pure speculation. It seems silly to cry "ducking" when you've just arrived at a new weight division, especially when typically you "test the waters", as you well put it, before taking on the best of the division. I'll add that although I'm not fond of catchweights..... it's not like Cotto invented the damn concept either.
But whatever. I'm gonna enjoy the fight tonight.... 'cause Cotto fights are always fun to watch.
:cool:
Well it looks like the doors are wide open for a Cotto-Canelo fight to be negotiated, now that both have dispatched their respective opponents. So at this early stage I want to say something unequivocally from the get-go........
What will ensue here will be negotiations. Who gets what.... where the fight will be held.... when the fight will be held..... blah, blah, blah. Canelo through his GDP puppet master will want to play hardball again..... wanting to coerce Cotto into accepting his conditions, stupidly claiming A-side status, or whatever the hell anybody wants to call it nowadays. Cotto, to his credit, is a pretty shrewd man himself, and does not need DLH pulling his strings in the background to know what he wants.
Like he very clearly stated in the pre-Geale fight interview that was shown with Jim Lampley..... he's gone through a 14-year pro career, and has gone through all the hard knocks, to have earned the standing he now has. He won't be strong-armed by young-un Canelo or his puppet master DLH into thinking he has to cave to their demands. So if Canelo "really" wants to fight Cotto...... he's gonna have to show it at the negotiating table. Otherwise, he's just blowing smoke, and Cotto will tell him to f*ck off again.
Just want to make that clear up front, for any ignorant minds that begin to foolishly throw the "D" word around.
Capiche?
;)
hopefully each side can agree to the terms. this fight needs to happen.
this is exactly why having multiple belts is a problem. there is no hiding if you are the champ. for example, sergio was regarded as THE MW champ. since cotto beat him, cotto would now be THE MW champ. ggg would definitely be the #1 contender for the belt so cotto would either have to fight him or drop the belt. with so many belts, people can make excuses for why they arent fighting a certain fighter.Quote:
Originally Posted by J_Undisputed
and about catchweights, im alright with them as long as its not for a belt. if you are defending your title, then fight at that weight. its absolutely ridiculous to have a MW title fight at 157. it makes zero sense. i mean, i cant wrestle in the olympics and ask for a catchweight because im popular. if i want to win the medal at the weight class, i have to wrestle at that weight class. a professional belt should be no different. this is why the belts are pointless and i honestly dont care about them. half of the time im not even sure who has a belt in any weight class. i just know who the top fighters are and who i consider the top fighter at each weight.
If Canelo doesn't accept terms we know GGG will :p Cotto don't want that though ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by La CucarachaIf Canelo doesn't accept terms we know GGG will :p Cotto don't want that though ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
You're probably right. ;D
I think both Cotto AND Canelo would rather fight each other.
After that, it's all conjecture. But Cotto paused.... while Canelo said he'd "probably fight him later".
Hard to pick which sounds more reluctant.
;)
Now that both Alvarez and Cotto have won it's time to make the fight. And really it shouldn't be that hard to make. Cotto has been stating for the last couple of years that money is his main motivation. He's looking for the business deal that will get him the most money. Fine. No problem with that. Twice Cotto has been offered career high paydays to fight Alvarez. Chances are his next offer will be a career high payday as well. In other words it'll be the best business deal. No reason Cotto would turn it down. At least I hope he wouldn't
They will make the fight then the winner will get KOED by GGG.
To be fair that is no shame GGG is the new Hagler.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterTo be fair that is no shame GGG is the new Hagler.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
No shame at all.
What on earth is everyone talking about?!Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord AlQuote:
Originally Posted by MasterTo be fair that is no shame GGG is the new Hagler.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
No shame at all.
I like cotto but he should not have to fight GGG.
Ffs why is GGG in the audience picking on all the small guys?!
Sign a contract with froch or ward and then we see how good you are!
Cotto should fight canelo but must stay away from ggg because of the unfair weight advantage.
ggg and hagler are no where near at this stage.
Cotto has stepped up his game by moving up in weight fof bigger challenges...why is ggg not doing the same?!
Quote:
Originally Posted by impWhat on earth is everyone talking about?!Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord AlQuote:
Originally Posted by MasterTo be fair that is no shame GGG is the new Hagler.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
No shame at all.
I like cotto but he should not have to fight GGG.
Ffs why is GGG in the audience picking on all the small guys?!
Sign a contract with froch or ward and then we see how good you are!
Cotto should fight canelo but must stay away from ggg because of the unfair weight advantage.
ggg and hagler are no where near at this stage.
Cotto has stepped up his game by moving up in weight fof bigger challenges...why is ggg not doing the same?!
If I'm not mistaken , GGG and Cotto are MW belt holders. So why on earth cant the fight happen ?
GGG will stay at MW if he wants to or move up if he wants to , this isn't a GGG thread its about MW fighting each other , as long as Cotto holds a version of the title he can fight other MW' s . Or do you see a problem with that ?
Cotto done a good job on Geale, but in the boxing business Cotto V Canelo is on the cards, the
real No 1 is GGG WE all no it.!
Cotto does not fancy facing GGG, or Canelo, you can't blame there as he would KO the both of
them.! Remember Cotto v Canelo is a PPV big fight a Latino match up, and maybe a 50/50 fight
it's a cracking fight.
GGG is a different animal, he will find it hard to get a mega fight as he is a bit to good for the
opposition, that's out there he has beat the crap out of all his contenders has he not,! the other
Champs don't really fancy there chances, to be the man you have to beat the man.;)
Wherever they do fight I'm guessing it'll be somewhere with zero state taxes. No way Cotto gets the east coast even if he isn't bothered about the tax bill. Vegas or Cowboys Stadium. Either way a very pro-Alvarez crowd.
Cotto has fought in Vegas, in front of pro-Mexican crowds. Canelo has never fought more than a couple of hundred miles away from Mexico. Let him come out and play in another neighborhood.
I want to see this fight as long as the winner faces Golovkin next.
Will this fight be above 154?
It probably will be for the precious middleweight title.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lineal