But every time his name comes up people do start on about dog fighting,! Carlos Monzon killed his wife Tyson rapist just a few to name.Quote:
Originally Posted by X
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But every time his name comes up people do start on about dog fighting,! Carlos Monzon killed his wife Tyson rapist just a few to name.Quote:
Originally Posted by X
That sounds like an invitation for the thread to go off topic for a few pages.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dia bandoBut every time his name comes up people do start on about dog fighting,! Carlos Monzon killed his wife Tyson rapist just a few to name.Quote:
Originally Posted by X
I'll start
It's not fair to include Tyson because he wasn't a rapist, he was set up
Monzon's wife slipped.Quote:
Originally Posted by BatmanThat sounds like an invitation for the thread to go off topic for a few pages.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dia bandoBut every time his name comes up people do start on about dog fighting,! Carlos Monzon killed his wife Tyson rapist just a few to name.Quote:
Originally Posted by X
I'll start
It's not fair to include Tyson because he wasn't a rapist, he was set up
How the flying fuck can anyone compare this
To some cunt who wants to eat a fucking steak?Quote:
This is how Stan saw Gerald and the whole dog thing: 'So he got this black Labrador, just went to the dog shop, told the man, "I need a dog to take care of, I'll take this Labrador home," and the man say to the dog, "Yeah, you got a good home now," and Gerald takes the dog home. He takes the dog down his basement and tapes the Labrador's mouth, takes his pit bull Deuce and says "Get him!" He lets Deuce start eatin' the dog up while he's timing it on a watch, see how long it would take his dog to kill this dog. And I said to Gerald, "Hey, Gerald, this Labrador wouldn't beat Deuce, no way, so why did you tape his mouth shut?" And he said, "Coz I just wanna see how fast my dog would kill him, for one, and, for two, my dog's a championship fighter and you don't need no dog scratched up and bit up by no dog, by no accident. This is like sparrin' for my dog, this is like my dog need to taste blood every day. My dog need to kill somethin' every day, Stan. Just like a fighter need to spar every day, he don't need nobody bustin' him up when he got a big fight comin' up. He just need to bust somethin' up hisself. Right?"'
I'm just gunna go down the road and buy some sausages...actually I'm gunna buy a fucking pig and let my dog slowly torture it to fucking death and then I'll make some sausages out of it.
Come on get real, yeah maybe some animals suffer for our food but are you really...really...really trying to justify taping an innocent animals mouth shut purely so it can be torn apart to someone who eats meat?
If so then I'm afraid that you have some seriously fucked up way of justifying things, whilst there are fucking meat eaters on the planet lets just legalize fucking dog fighting.
Makes perfect sense to me.
And I for one don't think he deserved to be left a cabbage but he certainly deserves people to look upon him for what he was and that was a nasty orrible cunt.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeeod
Tee hee ...... cock fighting :cool:
Actually a bit of compassion showed there by G-man compared to many other dog fighting dirtbags. A common practice is to just steal dogs to kill as "sparring partners". So not only are they doing horrible things to wonderful animals they also hurt the people that love those animals. Any dog fighter should be in a cell with the biggest rapiest man in the prison.Quote:
Originally Posted by Batman
Two main reasons.
One, Im totally convinced he was damaged goods before the Benn fight and I think people who should have been looking after his best interests new it too. The blinking, the mouthpiece hanging out, being chinned in sparring by little guys, complaining of headaches, blacking out. It's all there. He was a ticking bomb. McClellan fought like he had no option but to chin him in the first, like he knew it too.
Two, Benn was super human. He wasn't going to be denied.
A couple of things to mention. Benn didnt get helped back into the ring. There's a difference between standing your ground and putting your hands out so a fighter doesn't roll onto TV tables or the floor, and helping someone into the ring who cant manage it under their own steam. He also didn't get a long count. He was up and ready to fight before 10. Even if you think it was slow, he should have been given 20. He did get extra seconds when McClellan tried to go around the back of the referee to get back at him. That set the tone for the rest of the fight, the referee was fussy, with both of them but especially McClellan.
British boxing, at that time, had a speight of bad stoppages and curious injuries and was criticized due to their lack of care of fighters.Quote:
Originally Posted by imp
On surface reading of articles at the time, McLellans family were irresponsible to move him from the UK Hospital.
Neurosurgeon assigned to Mclellan advised against it.
Almost as if the Family didn't think much of the medical staff and put them in the same category as witch doctors.
I've just sat down and watched the fight in its entirety for the first time in years, it's amazing how Benn survived that first round and its also amazing how I don't think he even attempted a single combo in the duration of the fight, every punch was an attempt to kill McClellan.
I was only 9 at the time of the fight so I don't remember it first time around and I don't really remember much of Benn being an active boxer, I remember the build up to the Steve Collins fight but not the actual fight.
A few questions:
How big of a fight was this at the time, was it a huge fuck off GGG v Alvarez style fight or was it more of an Alvarez v Smith fight
Was Benn really such an underdog, I'm sure they mentioned at one point in the fight that McClellan's odds were 1/3 or something along them lines
Some people say that McClellan was damaged goods before the fight, did his performance seem 'off' compared to his previous scraps? I know he had never gone past the 3rd before what about the first three rounds, did he look out of sorts then?
Just how big of a prospect was McClellan at the time of the fight, again I know he was blowing people out of there in the 1st round a lot of the time but lets be honest Wilder does that and no one see's him as the second coming, was McClellans opposition decent or was he just put in with fodder to make him look good?
It was a huge fight on mainstream TV but most people thought that GMan was going to destroy Benn. G Man was the Tyson of the division.
No body thought McClellan was damaged goods until way after the fight, mainly they thought he had no plan B.
G Man had destroyed Julian Jackson and was being set up for a serious challenge for Roy Jones further down the line.
Benn was just out of this world that day and refused to lose.
It's virtually impossible to compare back then to today as things are so, so different.
13 million TV viewers and massive newspaper coverage yet there was only a fraction of boxing on TV compared to now (live undercards were NEVER shown. Imagine that when we now complain about the quality of half-a-dozen undercard fights everyweek). It only had an 11,000 gate (would easily do 50,000 by todays standards) and the purses (GMan $200,000 / Benn $800,000) are shockingly low, considering the magnitude of the fight, compared with today.
However, it was a huge deal for boxing/sport fans. Far from being a "prospect" or "damaged goods," G-Man was P4P top 10, WBC middleweight champion (at a time when the WBO was still regarded as a fake title in this country), the most fearsome sparko artist on the planet and as Master said was being setup for the Roy Jones fight (GMan beat Roy in the Golden Gloves).
Benn was a bigger underdog, for anyone that "knew" anything about boxing, than those odds suggest. He had absolutely no chance of making it past three rounds (needless to say I did me dough, even though I love(d) Benn)
Greatest atmosphere i've ever seen a fight in. And that was in a bar with a dozen or so black blokes jumping on tables helping Benn comeback.
i watched it on a black and white 12 inch tv in my student digs
I don't remember the build up too much but I remember the fight :D
A bold statement :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Just to be clear, when I say damaged goods I mean there's something seriously wrong with this fucker. Not this fucker has had one too many fights, one too many beatings (although that may still be true) and he's on the down slide.
Plenty of people thought he was damaged goods. There are loads of books, documentaries, you name it, all littered with people (some good judges, some regurgitating other peoples words) who are/were convinced he was fucked before the Benn fight. Some going so far as to saying he was brought over by people who knew full well how bad he was and wanted him punished.
You can take or leave any of those accounts, soundbites, whispers etc to be honest and just go with what you see with your own eyes. McClellan was struggling the moment round one ended and Benn fought back.
I remember that fight very well. Nobody here in New York or New Jersey was ever saying anything about McClellan being damaged goods or having had been sparked in sparring or anything like that. I agree that only came out later on. If it is true it should have been mentioned earlier for his own well-being by his trainers and personal doctors. For some reason the brutality in the cruelty that he lived with in his private life with that whole dog fighting cruelty thing I just cannot help at separate that as generating some kind of Bad Karma for what happened to him in the ring. I think everything is one big picture and those kinds of things play a part in some unseen way and some karmic way and cannot be separated out.
We're any of these book documentaries created before the fight, or are they hindsight creations?Quote:
Originally Posted by MemphisA bold statement :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
You can take or leave any of those accounts, soundbites, whispers etc to be honest and just go with what you see with your own eyes. McClellan was struggling the moment round one ended and Benn fought back.
What documentary would you recommend, Memphis? Wouldn't mind taking a look.Quote:
Originally Posted by MemphisA bold statement :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Just to be clear, when I say damaged goods I mean there's something seriously wrong with this fucker. Not this fucker has had one too many fights, one too many beatings (although that may still be true) and he's on the down slide.
Plenty of people thought he was damaged goods. There are loads of books, documentaries, you name it, all littered with people (some good judges, some regurgitating other peoples words) who are/were convinced he was fucked before the Benn fight. Some going so far as to saying he was brought over by people who knew full well how bad he was and wanted him punished.
You can take or leave any of those accounts, soundbites, whispers etc to be honest and just go with what you see with your own eyes. McClellan was struggling the moment round one ended and Benn fought back.
I am sure they were all after the event.Quote:
Originally Posted by sanatogenWe're any of these book documentaries created before the fight, or are they hindsight creations?Quote:
Originally Posted by MemphisA bold statement :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
You can take or leave any of those accounts, soundbites, whispers etc to be honest and just go with what you see with your own eyes. McClellan was struggling the moment round one ended and Benn fought back.
Frank Warren had 2 London ambulances at the arena that night as everyone knew it was proper going off in that ring that night.
I'm sure 2 ambulances was unheard of in the UK before this fight.
Memphis is right and I too believe McClellan went into that fight with brain trauma.
Nigel Benn admits he rarely sparred and I've seen recent interviews with him saying that is the reason Hearns can barely speak these days, Benns logic was why the fuck would I get smashed in the head with for no pay.
McClellan had daily wars in the Kronk gym.
Still the most dramatic fight ever on UK soil.
This is still one that as the years go it may be overthought in the mystery factor, tragedy unfortunately and what if factor. Really he had never gone over 8 rounds and I forgot about him coming in 175 vs Jackson and probably a couple of others. He said going up to Benn would mean he was a healthy weight and would prob be 175 but in actuality already was. On competition he went from lite touches save for maybe old Mugabi or Williams while taking 2 losses to the depth of Jackson. His follow up 'super showdown' with undefeated Parks fizzled and took longest off time prior to Benn. I don't know if he suffered trauma any less than another boxer who takes flush shots but lives by the ko god bless him but the fact is Benn was a massive step up in class and had long lived and learned the exact same mindset of a firefight.
Against Jackson he has his mouth open by the end of the second round (you can constantly see his gum shield) and looks exactly as he did in the Benn fight when under duress. He even goes down on one knee, spits his shield out and excessively blinks as he claims a low blow, it's virtually identical to how the Benn fight ended.
Without the tragic ending, with hindsight, it would have been a case of - he didn't have the championship experience, unproven at the distance, not fought enough solid competition, he's a bully that couldn't handle being stood up to, no game plan etc.
Some people questioned him before the fight, not that I remember though, these guys were superheroes to me back then. Watching McClellan now he's not half the unstoppable chinning machine my rose-tinted glasses like to remember. And that goes for all those 90s heroes.
Canelo-GMan?
Golovkin-Benn?
Jacobs-Nunn?
Eubank Jr-Eubank Snr?
Lemieux-Barkley?
No way modern fighters are any worse than those of the past, or out of their depth, once nostalgia has been removed (well, in my case that's what i've come to believe).
This seems the best of the YouTube clips of Mclellan - Benn
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7to-Ch5Omaw
Best fight with a British fighter for me. I was standing up cheering watching the turn around from round 1.
I suspect there is a bit of rose tinted specs going on with the G Man.
When he came over to fight Benn, he was being built up as this threshing machine of a fighter. I was never quite so sure. I watched a lot of his previous bouts, and he was knocking people out all over the place, but they were generally overmatched anyway, only looking to survive or were carefully chosen to make Gerald look good.
I never saw much of a Plan B with MCClellan, and always thought that if someone durable could get past the sixth, he would run out of ideas.
Everybody overlooks the fact that he was having his first fight at a higher weight against Benn, plus Nigel was a proven world class operator who could seriously seriously bang.
Back in the day, I think Eubank could have handled the G Man a defeat.
Supermiddles like Calzaghe, Ward, Froch etc would have just been too big and too skilled for McClellan. Middles like Hagler, Monzon or Golovkin would have obliterated him.
It is a great fight. It is one of those you have to return to watch every couple of years. It's just so good.
It's hard to evaluate McClellan in terms of where he stands in history because his career was too short. He only really fought Jackson and Benn and didn't go that many rounds. You saw flashes of good boxing against Benn, you saw ferocity in the first round, but he also got hit too easily. It's hard to say. All I can say with any certainty is no way would he have beaten Joe Calzaghe. I think Toney would have schooled him too. Eubank probably more even based on styles. Thing is you know all those guys could go 12 and had great chins. You don't know any of that about McClennan.
In that case Roy Jones​ and Mike McCallum beat him too.
Couldn't agree more and was saying the same leading up to it. I just never really bought the built up aura of sure destruction that all the boxing talking heads were so determined to lead with. Do think a lot has to do with the feeling of incompletion following tragedy. Maybe similar to the mystery of 'what if' concerning Ike but far different and horrible circumstances. In both we very obviously saw what was and it went the way it was meant, fight by fight wise and performance. McClellan had the extent of 6 rounds at the championship top tier level and in doing so proved pretty hittable but just as fierce. Keeping it simple, what happened that night was Nigel Benn. He was talked about like a stepping stone for the G Man locally and as often happens we very much forget that there is always another in the opposite corner who adamantly disagrees and is a proven force.Quote:
Originally Posted by X
I rewatched McClellan/Benn again just now, just a superb brawl, but it was very disturbing seeing the final 4 minutes and the post fight scenes. It really makes you think.
Ifs and but in reality the fight was a war McCleellan had beat some fighters past there best as most fighters do! Benn was battle hardened and was a tough SOB it was the type of fight do or die Mc was used to blasting out his opponents but so was Benn it was a hell of a fight Gerald sustained a brain injury! Benn was never the same mentally and fiscally in reality it ended his carer that fight.
We can say boxing is a dangerous sport since the tragedy of this fight new measures came into place in this Country to make the sport safer it will never be totally safe because of the nature of the sport.!!!!!!!!