Boris Burka Row - To BAN or not to BAN? Islamophobia?

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Originally Posted by Beanz

No ;D Fucking hell Lyle. Must try harder. You can wear a balaclava in the UK. When you ride a motorbike you often put one on under your helmet. When it is snowing you might wear one. Despite the IRA and bank robbers also wearing them. You can be asked to remove them at garages and banks etc just like people can ask people to remove their Burqka head covering for a good reason. You can't ban them though. Just like you can't ban clown masks or Halloween masks or tell cosplayers take off the Batman mask and costume because I don't trust you.

You sound like an extremist mate.

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Oh so you don't read my posts all that thoroughly do you?

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

Unless it's bitterly cold out, or Halloween, why would you need a complete or even partial facial covering?

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Have you ever asked someone to remove their burqa?
Clowns don't wear "masks" they wear face paint.
Halloween masks on Halloween is fine as I've said before.
Cosplay folk can wear their shit if there's some sort of special event....that being the case I would be ok with these women should they want to wear the niqab or burqa in the mosque but out in the street every single day? Nope.


I don't mind the other ways of dress....why is it necessity to cover the entire face? If it was meant to honor the woman why is it head to toe black polyester in the fucking desert? It's oppressive.

Lyle I don't like the Burqka anymore than you but I am not the one telling people what they can and cannot wear. I believe in freedom of expression and liberty. You obviously don't. I have not asked anyone to remove their Burqka because i do not work in a bank or 24 hr garage.

I can assure you i read every word of every post I reply to. I literally cannot bring myself to skim read stuff. That would be disrespectful and against my nature.

https://www.listland.com/ten-reasons...united-states/


Of the 10 reasons listed here to ban the burka, you can throw out 2 through 10. Only # 1 applies because it deals with the security and safety of other people.

For the same reason they make you take your shoes off at the airport, burkas should not be allowed.

The other reasons are invalid.

With masks for winter or cold it's really not going to happen, especially down South ;D. Who defines how cold you actually are? It hits anything under low 60's here sure enough there is always that one wuss who breaks out the thick gloves and huge ski hats etc. We'd be screwed during carnival season. Everywhere you turn at night people are in masks.

random memory the masks brought up. When I was a kid I had to bright idea to improvise a Halloween costume one year. Complete with toy gun, trench coat and a ski mask rolled into hat. Cops pull up while we're hoping fences..hey kids hope fences..and frisk me, give me the third degree of questions and take photos of my shoe prints :-X. Wasn't the best neighborhood and the only time I had a Cop tell me I was as sharp as a marble ;D.

Why don't men wear these silly burka things? What do feminists think about this issue? Or are they mute on Islam as usual?

Men cannot wear revealing stuff either. It is immodest

Let's get this straight once and for all.

Mailboxes are for first and second class mails .......

Burqas are for second class females. ;D

They will make him apologise....


http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfor...tid=4499&stc=1

I know u are talking about England but in the us some banks ask u to remove sunglasses and hats for security. They won’t let u in all night stores during Halloween with a face mask. When we get a drivers license or other ID it is so we can match our face with our ID. I think the aclu took some states to court for that and women don’t need to remove burkas for ID. They also don’t have to follow those rules in banks etc that we who don’t wear them do. Beanz, in the US the Nazi party as well as the KKK have the right to march, hold rallies etc just as anygroup. I find the kkk to be a bunch of ignorant idiots and although Nazis have snappy Hugo boss uniforms it’s kind of dumb to march around like that. Many cities will make it impossible or very difficult to get permits for planned marches but a right is a right. I don’t support the ideology but I support the right for them to peaceful gather and do the hitler arm thing just as antifa or that occupy whatever they choose that day has the right. I do wish they would stop gathering on highways to stop traffic and screw up people who are tired from work and just want to get home for dinner. Sorry I guess this is your guys thing about some guy in England who I’m not familiar with but I saw my new buddies beanz comment to Lyle and I needed to pipe in. I support the Nazis right to march and do that heil Hitler thing, it’s been before the courts and it is a constitutional right. Often they get attacked and disperse which I don’t think is right as long as they themselves are peaceful. None of these groups is perfect but I have to say it seems antifa are the violent ones these days. Alright, back to your country. I would guess your rights to gather and march are more restricted than ours

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Originally Posted by Master

I do not think your position is hypocritical because you recognise it is their choice but that you do not like it.

You do not want to ban it do you?

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No because it's hypocritical as I believe anyone should have the right to wear whatever they want. The same as I have no problem with evil crims being tortured to death but would never support the death penalty, it's flawed and morally ridiculous.

Here is some interesting news on this subject , a local Labour councillor for the Bolton area Pakistani born Jasmin Qureshi ( yes that is laughable in itself that someone not born here can be a councillor / MP ).
Has made comments condemning Boris Johnson , calling for him to apologise for his comments.
So our local paper The Bolton News has given us the chance to vote on her opinion .

Apologise - 11%

No Apology - 89 %

Seems like we don't agree with you there Jasmin lol.

Also Rowan Atkinson said what's the fuss it was a pretty good observational Joke so why apologise.
If the joke was aimed at any other religion other than the muslims , then nobody would care one bit. You see the pattern ?

If Rowan said it then that is fine then. Do not know what the fuss is about.

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

Why don't men wear these silly burka things? What do feminists think about this issue? Or are they mute on Islam as usual?

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You wish. Feminists even Muslim women have written several books condemning it. Stop just swallowing the right wing version of the MSM.

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Originally Posted by Beanz

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

Why don't men wear these silly burka things? What do feminists think about this issue? Or are they mute on Islam as usual?

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You wish. Feminists even Muslim women have written several books condemning it. Stop just swallowing the right wing version of the MSM.

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I haven't swallowed anything. I merely posited a question. I have looked into this story now and actually do not see the problem with what Johnson said. He has offended a few people. So what, has nobody ever ridiculed Johnson's appearance? People mock Trumps appearance daily, yet now it is a problem if it concerns women who frankly do have poor taste in fashion. It's up to them what they wear, but if you think it looks silly, then you think it looks silly. Get over it.

Muslims have become way too self-entitled and way too touchy about any little perceived insult about their religion or any little cartoon about their religion. They really need to be taught a lesson because they are definitely out of hand now. Time to crack down on their self centered garbage

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Originally Posted by Beanz

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

Why don't men wear these silly burka things? What do feminists think about this issue? Or are they mute on Islam as usual?

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You wish. Feminists even Muslim women have written several books condemning it. Stop just swallowing the right wing version of the MSM.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgOBfbJzM5U


:-X

I went to the Pharmacy a few months back I was asked to remove my motorcycle helmet.
Why because they were robbed a few weeks earlier. I have a new flip up helmet now so I don't have to remove my helmet now as you can see my face.
People are uneasy if they can see your face people are okay.
Special treatment again for Bedouins your not in the fucking desert your in fucking boots .
Who gives a shit if they a fucking ugly letter box spot on the dickhead Norris.😂

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-ovsfH6GH0


Hitchens warned us ages ago

I've never had contact with a burka/face covered muslim bird who didn't remove it upon talking to me. The stupidist thing, apart from what it represents, is the sparkling white trainers they're always wearing underneath.

Instead of banning them, prohibit their use in specific places. After a while, it'll be too cumbersome to wear them in public when you can't really go anywhere 'cause they're not allowed..... and you'll stop using them.

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

Instead of banning them, prohibit their use in specific places. After a while, it'll be too cumbersome to wear them in public when you can't really go anywhere 'cause they're not allowed..... and you'll stop using them.

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That is called a ban.

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

Instead of banning them, prohibit their use in specific places. After a while, it'll be too cumbersome to wear them in public when you can't really go anywhere 'cause they're not allowed..... and you'll stop using them.

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That is called a ban.

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So, what of it?

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

Instead of banning them, prohibit their use in specific places. After a while, it'll be too cumbersome to wear them in public when you can't really go anywhere 'cause they're not allowed..... and you'll stop using them.

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That is called a ban.

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So, what of it?

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I think Tito was not advocating a ban just restrictions.

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

Instead of banning them, prohibit their use in specific places. After a while, it'll be too cumbersome to wear them in public when you can't really go anywhere 'cause they're not allowed..... and you'll stop using them.

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That is called a ban.

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No it's not. A ban includes every place, including public places, like the street. Prohibition in specific places is just that, and up to the owners of those places. For instance, a bank has a right to deny entry to anyone they deem could be potentially dangerous. As Walrus mentioned earlier, many banks do not allow you to go in with baseball caps, hoodies, or sunglasses. It's a safety issue. If they do not allow those, much less would they allow burkas.

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

Instead of banning them, prohibit their use in specific places. After a while, it'll be too cumbersome to wear them in public when you can't really go anywhere 'cause they're not allowed..... and you'll stop using them.

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That is called a ban.

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No it's not. A ban includes every place, including public places, like the street. Prohibition in specific places is just that, and up to the owners of those places. For instance, a bank has a right to deny entry to anyone they deem could be potentially dangerous. As Walrus mentioned earlier, many banks do not allow you to go in with baseball caps, hoodies, or sunglasses. It's a safety issue. If they do not allow those, much less would they allow burkas.

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I thought that there are certain places where you have to take it off.

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

Instead of banning them, prohibit their use in specific places. After a while, it'll be too cumbersome to wear them in public when you can't really go anywhere 'cause they're not allowed..... and you'll stop using them.

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That is called a ban.

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No it's not. A ban includes every place, including public places, like the street. Prohibition in specific places is just that, and up to the owners of those places. For instance, a bank has a right to deny entry to anyone they deem could be potentially dangerous. As Walrus mentioned earlier, many banks do not allow you to go in with baseball caps, hoodies, or sunglasses. It's a safety issue. If they do not allow those, much less would they allow burkas.

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I thought that there are certain places where you have to take it off.

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That's what I'm saying, maybe I'm not making myself understood. A woman wants to wear a burka to a public park because of religious beliefs, let her. None of the reasons to prevent her from doing so are valid, IMO. But the same woman wants to go into a bank, a mall, or wherever... and it's prohibited, she'll have to take it off. Safety concerns trump all else. A ban is a ban everywhere. I'm not for a ban.

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

Instead of banning them, prohibit their use in specific places. After a while, it'll be too cumbersome to wear them in public when you can't really go anywhere 'cause they're not allowed..... and you'll stop using them.

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That is called a ban.

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No it's not. A ban includes every place, including public places, like the street. Prohibition in specific places is just that, and up to the owners of those places. For instance, a bank has a right to deny entry to anyone they deem could be potentially dangerous. As Walrus mentioned earlier, many banks do not allow you to go in with baseball caps, hoodies, or sunglasses. It's a safety issue. If they do not allow those, much less would they allow burkas.

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I thought that there are certain places where you have to take it off.

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That's what I'm saying, maybe I'm not making myself understood. A woman wants to wear a burka to a public park because of religious beliefs, let her. None of the reasons to prevent her from doing so are valid, IMO. But the same woman wants to go into a bank, a mall, or wherever... and it's prohibited, she'll have to take it off. Safety concerns trump all else. A ban is a ban everywhere. I'm not for a ban.

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100% agree

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-ovsfH6GH0


Hitchens warned us ages ago

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Hitchens was such a loss to the world, I still often watch his videos on YouTube, I love his unwavering stance on religion even when he was dying, his debates were always so dignified as well, I remember when he was I the final stages of the cancer that was killing him and the bloke he was debating said "I promise you one thing Christopher...I won't prey for you" all in good humour

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by Beanz

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

Why don't men wear these silly burka things? What do feminists think about this issue? Or are they mute on Islam as usual?

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You wish. Feminists even Muslim women have written several books condemning it. Stop just swallowing the right wing version of the MSM.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgOBfbJzM5U


:-X

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Lyle unlike you and Miles I don't pretend that everyone are robots. You both just repeat utter bollocks that you are fed by the alt right without questioning it.

I never claimed there were no idiots on the left. I never claimed all feminists spoke out against female oppression in Islam.

People protest stuff and you call them idiots and then you pretend they never protested whist moaning that they are protesting something you agree with.

If someone points out an extremist on the right you call them an outlier if they are on the extreme left you claim they define the entire left.

Zero intellectual integrity.

You both pretend to debate but actually you do nothing of the sort.

You don't half talk some shite Jew boy. You make ot up as you go along. I do not listen or read the alt right. Even if I did so the fuck what? You have no integrity whence you seldom answering a straight question. Even replying to Nobita who backs up everything with sources you just say 'lie' give an opinion and don't offer evidence nor sources. It's funny really. Most of the time you twist and contort in an uncomfortable manner. You get angry. Then like in posts like this you randomly bring me up as you do have an obvious pathology and can easily be classed with a very specific form of mental irregularity.

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Originally Posted by Batman

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-ovsfH6GH0


Hitchens warned us ages ago

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Hitchens was such a loss to the world, I still often watch his videos on YouTube, I love his unwavering stance on religion even when he was dying, his debates were always so dignified as well, I remember when he was I the final stages of the cancer that was killing him and the bloke he was debating said "I promise you one thing Christopher...I won't prey for you" all in good humour

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Hitchens was a cunt.

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Originally Posted by walrus

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Originally Posted by Batman

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-ovsfH6GH0


Hitchens warned us ages ago

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Hitchens was such a loss to the world, I still often watch his videos on YouTube, I love his unwavering stance on religion even when he was dying, his debates were always so dignified as well, I remember when he was I the final stages of the cancer that was killing him and the bloke he was debating said "I promise you one thing Christopher...I won't prey for you" all in good humour

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Hitchens was a cunt.

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I like some of what Hitchens said, other stuff less keen. He was right about Islam and you see a case in point in this thread.

You are not allowed to offend a certain group of people regardless and it doesn't matter what they say or what they do, you are not permitted to do that. Thus the UK is becoming progressively more and more Islamised, but of course not only Islam, but many groups whose own countries deny reciprocal rights and freedoms to people in the countries their people are going to. Notice how it is Master who seems overtly concerned about the rights of Muslims. His concern is far less about the tradition and culture of Britain and that is understandable considering his household growing up was not a traditional British one, but that is what happens generation by generation. Master is a nice man, but he inevitably is drawn to defending other cultures rather than traditional British cultures. The same applies to Beanz who impersonates being English, but likewise has no British roots. To these two anyone defending traditional British culture or being against open borders etc is a racist, a bigot, and a threat to them and what they want to continue.

Hitchens lost me with his support for the Iraq war. Unlike me, who gets accused in this thread of following the alt right, which I of course do not, Hitchens did appear to support the neo-cons. I have never supported such groups. I will listen to Paul Joseph Watson, but at the same time read The Canary for instance. I am reading and listening all over the place, when I do bother paying attention that is as it really isn't a high priority of mine. In saying that people do adapt and change and anyone who doesn't is either dead or a die hard ideologue and neither of those is a healthy condition. I will say what I think is positive about Trump when I think it is positive and negative when it is negative. Those chaps will not do the same, it will only be negative and likewise you see this obsession with Russia which appears to be parroted from their daily propaganda.

So, for me Hitchens had his pros and cons like most people do really.

That might sound a little bit provocative, but ultimately I do think immigrants are who they are and will never be able to truly be anything other. I spend a lot of time studying language, but I will always always carry with me my British identity. It's in my accent, my mannerisms, it's in my music, my personality. I can apply for citizenship but I will still be who I am. Even if I was to have kids, they would largely be shaped by homelife rather than society. This is inevitable. I won't wear skinny jeans or have an asian hair style. I won't listen to K pop or watch silly dramas where the men wear lipstick and look like their girlfriend except with shorter hair. I bring myself and I think most immigrants do and though their kids speak the language better they have their own unique inputs different to true locals. I think you are seeing the consequences of that with segregation and social problems. The first generation immigrants are not an issue. They are grateful but struggled to integrate and do hang out with their own groups. It's the kids where the rebellion and alienation appears to spread.

I get it and think people can wear what they like but it is not British culture. I am less obvious as I don't wear a letter box, but likewise I don't dress like anyone else. Kids these days wear trousers half way up the leg with no socks and the boys have odd Beatle haircuts. I won't follow that. I will wear designers jeans that fit, wear a nice tailored shirt and only apply mascara if I have a pimple.

Everything miles has just said is 100% true especially what he said about master. Master would never admit it in 1 million years tho. It is also largely true of the US and the UK as a whole.

When the Armenians came here they did not form Armenian neighborhoods and when the Italians came here they did not form Italian neighborhoods for more than maybe 15 or 20 years. You cannot find any more Armenian neighborhoods in this country except for a small community in Glendale California. The Armenians and the Italians have completely assimilated. They did not force their Customs or their ways on the American society. They did not ask for foods to be changed in school cafeterias. They did not ask for certain businesses to be moved away from their holy sites. They did not demand that the United States kiss their Armenian or Italian feet.

It does make sense. It's like with Americans thinking they are Irish or you thinking you are Italian or whatever, Brock. You see it with many groups that they actually relate to their original place of origin and many such countries give them 'special' access via privileged visa rights too. It is recognised on a personal and legal level. Personally I think dual nationality is a cop out in that respect. Choose one. Prove you are for real.

Finally Miles has lost it. I knew it would happen. Brock was already there.

Your irrational fear of everything Islam and massive generalisation of immigrants is very telling.

It's true. How else do you explain people who have never lived in a country identifying themselves as 'Korean-Americans' or what have you and being allowed special visa privileges to return? Notice how it isn't even in alphabetical order? The same happens in India apparently with the visa thing from what Brock says. Why can they not just be Americans? Because it isn't their heart, they were raised eating their native foods, spoken to in native language, raised in their own culture, just placed in another country. Common sense really. I remember working in the bookies and you had a lot of Chinese customers as they love to gamble. Most couldn't speak a lick of English. They are living in their own enclaves.

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Originally Posted by Beanz

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Now I don't give a monkies about Boris but i'm sure you all know this is front page news, Boris should be sacked for racism/islamaphobia for calling women who wear the burka "postboxes," however, he wasn't for banning it in full and criticised Denmark in becoming the 10-12th(?) Euro gaff to do so.

I know what the majority of vocal voices here think of muslims/islam in general, so obviously expect most will be in favour of banning it, however, almost all the strong voices on muslim/islam here are freedom of speech advocates, right? Isn't freedom to dress however the funk you want the same as freedom of speech as long as you don't incite violence?

Personally I believe the burka is utterly pathetic, medieval misogynistic nonsense, I feel sympathy for women who live in countries where they constantly fight against this nonsense only to see western countries populated with women "choosing" to. However, I also believe women should be allowed to wear whatever the fuck they want - mini skirt, bin bag or burka? It's their CHOICE!!!

Is this position hypocritical?

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Not at all makes perfect sense. Boris and Bannon, Rees-Mogg etc have an agenda and so it is hard to divorce what Boris says from that and his Prime Ministerial ambitions. It is an appeal to the worst kind of Populism. Of course people should be able to discuss the burqka which is not even prescribed by Islam but that does not change the right of people to choose to wear it.


For me it is lie a virtue signaling of actual false modesty it makes men seem as though they are all predators if they cannot look at a face without feeling about sexual attraction, but like you say what are you going to ban next people wearing gorilla suits, mankinis, nuns wearing habits, kids dressed as actual pillar boxes next to their postman pat brother?

It does not really matter what you write people will just make up what they think you think anyway. I can't find it anymore but one of the first threads I started on here was about the failure of multi-culturalism. Then I recommended a book form 2004 by Michael Collins (not the IRA guy ;D) called

"The Likes of Us - A Biography of the White Working Class"

then a couple months later...

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Originally Posted by Beanz

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

The facts speak for themselves. Stop making excuses for what they have done with silly personal attacks. Many of the white working classes are trapped there and are being assaulted from all angles with nobody to defend them and the 'lucky' ones like me have to alienate themselves and avoid it entirely. But if we criticise it we are a caricature or racist or any insult that you like.

Read this very interesting article, look at the society that remains and tell me that I am a caricature. I am no caricature, I am angry and seething, and it is genuine. Every white English working class person should feel the same rage as we have been truly done over.

The English white working-class and the British elite – From the salt of the earth to the scum of the earth | England calling

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It is a well written blog, something that maybe your own efforts would do well to be directed towards. About 10 years ago Michael Collins wrote a book on this subject

"The Likes of Us - A Biography of the White Working Class"

The point that he made most successfully for me was to point out the hypocrisy of the middle and upper classes who have always been quick to label working class whites as racist. This like many things is completely untrue and an inversion of reality. Working Class white communities have always worked alongside non white immigrants from the English market traders to the Cardiff Dockers to the Glaswegian shipbuilders. For hundreds of years. Somalis,Italians, Jews,West Indians, etc have come to this country and worked alongside us, not the middle and upper classes, and you are right there is justifiable anger, but we should be careful to direct it at those who abuse power and not those disenfranchised alongside us, just because they are not white.

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Like I said Miles it does not even matter what I write you will just make up something else to make you feel superior. The post above is apparently me not answering a straight question or having an opinion. And of course now again I am the one with a mental illness?

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Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust

Everything miles has just said is 100% true especially what he said about master. Master would never admit it in 1 million years tho. It is also largely true of the US and the UK as a whole.

When the Armenians came here they did not form Armenian neighborhoods and when the Italians came here they did not form Italian neighborhoods for more than maybe 15 or 20 years. You cannot find any more Armenian neighborhoods in this country except for a small community in Glendale California. The Armenians and the Italians have completely assimilated. They did not force their Customs or their ways on the American society. They did not ask for foods to be changed in school cafeterias. They did not ask for certain businesses to be moved away from their holy sites. They did not demand that the United States kiss their Armenian or Italian feet.

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None of it is true Brock because Miles is a liar. He always has been.

Masters favourite food is bloody pie and chips, he loves 5 star, and grew up watching Grange Hill like the rest of us. He doesn't live in an enclave. Unlike Miles the absolutely a selfish cunt Master word for a public service with white colleagues making Britain a better place and volunteers helping run a group for the community where I expect most of the single parents are white.

What does Miles do? Sit thousands of miles away condemning a British born man who pays his taxes and is a real asset with character attacks just because he is not white.

That makes Miles both a coward and a cunt not some brave speaker of truth. Miles gave up his right to define what England should be when he welched out and ran away.

Many do live in enclaves though Beanz and Master admits that English is not the language his mother uses. He was raised as someone from a different culture in a different culture. I am not saying that is always bad, but pointing out that it happens. I am saying it is understandable and in times of controlled inmigration quite acceptable. I understand why he thinks as he does, I get it. I know how immigrants think, what they do, how they live. They work, pay their taxes, but their soul is their country of origin. Master's Mum will likely consider herself Indian and so she should. She is. What is happening now with open borders is quite different though. It's just too much but you have issues accepting that.

You can launch your own angry personal attacks all you like as you have done for years. It's all you have. You take it very personally and you know that less and less people think like you. But that is of course due to the 'alt right and gangs of racists'. Nope, not at all. I am not deluded enough to think that I have forgotten how to be English and I have never met anyone who has forgotten what they are. The trouble is you have many that do think that way and they do want their own cultures and unfortunately those cultures are diluting British culture. That's what is at the heart of what Johnson is saying. It just is not British.

Liar? Is that your new buzzword?