https://i.imgflip.com/a6mqdl.jpg
Printable View
Been beyond words with the entirety of our current situation as of late. He's presently tearing the constitution or many foundations that established this republic to cinders. Waffling tariffs, direct pressure from the State to penalize and silence everyone from law firms to stand up comedians to media outlets. Targeting unidentified craft in international waters with the US military, mobilizing national guard and active duty military in major US Cities over the objection of Governors and in violation of the constitution, crypto swindles and clear grifts, the establishment and growing basically a privatized anonymous police force currently sweeping private businesses and properties and detaining US citizens while "we check their paperwork" and as late as last night directly instructing the DOJ to target his political "enemies" for prosecution. On and on and on. Every single one of those is what you've historically heard about the slide into authoritarianism. This is a conditioning and normalization of actions unimaginable simply 10 years ago. What makes my head numb is that there are still defenders of Trump who think this merely settles as a political affiliation undertaking. A they vs us or "what side" issues. The fall and destruction of core principles and ideals we were founded on does not simply get undone in the span of an election cycle. There is a permanence to excepting and getting comfortable with that form of government oppression and darkness. Today it's them, tomorrow it's you. We are oblivious in simplistic tunnel vision tribalism and digging deeper into our tone deaf and blind information silos. This nation is in trouble.
The event honouring Charlie Kirk at a stadium in Arizona was extreme when Erika Kirk, Charlie's widow, took the stage and said "The answer to hate is not hate," . "The answer, we know from the Gospel, is love and always love. Love for our enemies, and love for those who persecute us."
Donald Trump, who spoke immediately after her, said "I hate my opponents, and I don't want what's best for them," Trump said "Now Erika can talk to me and the whole group and maybe they can convince me that's not right, but I can't stand my opponent."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli
This is eight months into his second term. Imagine thirty eight months in.
The big thing to watch over the next few years or however long these fuckers stay in power is what they do with the Federal Reserve. Trump wants lower interest rates which will increase inflation. If the bond market sees a Fed that is giving up on controlling inflation long term rates will spike and the government, private business and Americans will face much higher interest payments. That might be the least of the damage if some of the crazy shit that people Trump has appointed to the Fed like century bonds and strongarm tactics to make foreign central banks accept them become a thing. America's economy rests on the rule of law and a credible independent Fed and both of them are disintegrating.
Everything else, fairly easy to predict.
https://i.ibb.co/gLj4w4Vw/Screenshot...in-backgro.png
Not this. This isn't a prediction. This is currently Washington DC.
It's difficult enough to run a country as large, important and complex as America with a bunch of qualified credentialled experts in the top jobs. Nobody has ever tried running a large important country with a bunch of morons in charge before. It's a new exciting experiment that we're witnessing here. You can't help but think it's going to catch up with them at some point.
Amazingly none of the tenth rate crooks, con men, grifters, bullshitters, inadequates and malevolent incompetents who are currently in the top jobs are any good at them. The only thing any of them have any ability at is going after their enemies, so while they fuck every other aspect of their jobs up that's what they'll do. The repression will continue to ramp up. There'll be ever expanding enemies lists, they'll start eating their own, there'll be paranoia and polygraphs and eventually we'll discover that going after their enemies was the whole point of Trumpism and the economy, the rule of law, democratic institutions and the American way of life were just unfortunate collateral damage that couldn't be avoided because America was being destroyed by the deep state. We had to take our enemies out to save America and it's a shame about the state of the country but there was nothing anybody could do.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYmBSh3bj5c
bwahahaQuote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...eace-Gaza.html
So Trump was snubbed by the Nobel Peace Prize Committee. :D
Depending on which article you read and where it comes from, it's either a "grave injustice" or a deserved "comeuppance. Me? I'm firmly planted on the latter. :D
Where oh where do we start?
Oh yeah....
How about this?
GROVELING AFTER AN AWARD DECIDED UPON BY A THIRD PARTY IS UNBECOMING NOT JUST OF A POTUS... BUT OF ANYBODY.
Forget "unbecoming."
How about PATHETIC? PITIFUL? CLASSLESS? Take your pick.
Kudos to the Committee for ignoring what I'm sure amounted to pressure from The Orangutan and his Minions.
How in HELL would any Committee member in his right mind entertain awarding a prize such as this to the world's biggest bully??
I've comments of people saying that would render the Prize worthless... and they're absolutely RIGHT.
We're talking about the moron who incited an insurrection in the nation's capital on January 6th, after stirring up his Minions with bogus claims of a stolen election.
We're talking about the moron who is sending troops into (cough) "war-ravaged" Portland, Oregon for who knows what.
We're talking about the moron who plainly said he HATES his enemies (direct quote).
We're talking about the moron who unilaterally blew up two boats coming from Venezuela. (Because detaining them was too much trouble).
And this MORON has the gall to demand the Nobel Peace Prize??!!??
I hope this snub BURNS a hole in his gut.
I think the dementia is setting in with our tangerine overlord. One thing, the apple polishers who actually fell for 'the peace president' must feel like fools. Big uptick in military spending and ordering B-2 manufacturing. The corruption with Quatar could not be clearer, receives a 500 million dollar plane and then building for new Trump construction (more) now permitted over there. Also announced construction of a Qatar training base within the US, which went over like a wet turd with even some of his biggest supporters in the media world. It's not uncommon for co-training with "allies" in the States but gave the impression this was a separate independent facility. The same Qatar he and the entire US government designated a sponsor of Hamas terrorism. Day by day. Be a shame if his next midnight bucket of chicken came with 1 bone too many.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli
I have to believe Trump support has fallen off to the point where only MAGA cultists remain. The ones who would defend him even if he were to "shoot someone in the middle of 5th Avenue" like he once infamously prophesied.
But it's a bit late, IMO. You can't put the genie back into the bottle.
The divisive hate openly spewed by the Racist-in-Chief has brought all the DEPLORABLES (yes... Hillary was right, regardless of how unlikeable she was herself) out from under their rocks... and the damage is either permanent, or is going to take long years to undo.
Trump knows he no longer has to disguise his corrosive B.S.... so he just blurts it out. Daring the decent folks to protest.
Notice how the tiny pro-Trump faction in Saddo is nowhere to be seen, and has been M.I.A. for some time now.
you guys still have to pay taxes while the government is shutdown? bwahaha what are great scam. stop voting for one & stop paying taxes to fund the ponzi, make your money outside the system
I hope the No Kings movement topples the self appointed king
those in the no kings movement are retards, they still want to be ruled by their guys just not by the other guys, that's not freedom, it's just another flavour of tyranny
Well..... until the U.S. establishes a system of anarchy, which probably won't happen anytime soon... it's either one or the other.
In the case of Trump, he's proven many times over that he's unfit to rule ANYTHING... much less a country.
It is corruption, dictatorship, and disdain for the people. No one deserves that even if you were stupid enough to vote for the idiot.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterIt is corruption, dictatorship, and disdain for the people. No one deserves that even if you were stupid enough to vote for the idiot.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
The problem is that the MAGA cult continues to defend him. He's reached the point that no matter what he does... his cultists defend him.
The country is broken.
the problem is the strange dis-ease of people wanting to be ruled & wanting as to be ruled as well
you don't change the system you change the peopleQuote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by TICyou don't change the system you change the peopleQuote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
What's your point?
https://i.imgflip.com/a9xg94.jpg
By definition, a lack of a government is anarchy. Not my definition... theirs. So by not wanting to be "ruled" by anyone, you favor a system of anarchy.
So how do you go about changing 300 million people to believe in anarchy? (Since you said you don't change the system, but the people).
Just curious...
my point is you don't change the system like you said "until the U.S. establishes a system of anarchy" you change the peoples mindset
the etymology of anarchy basically means without a ruler, having no ruler, i favour not having a ruler
there's no need to change the mindset of three million peoples mindset, once around ten percent start understanding that no one has the right to ruler over another person & therefore no group of people have the right to rule over another group of people, things will fall apart very quickly. you plant seeds in peoples minds that it is immoral for some people to rule over others & that anything that is not consensual or voluntary or that you are not able to opt out of is immoral. if thirty million people stopped paying their taxes & making money under the table, there's not much the government could do, first they would have to process all those people & even if that was possible, there is nowhere to hold them. once others start realizing that thirty million people are doing this & basically nothing can be done, others will jump on board, from there it's a very quick demise for the government. if even one percent of that ten percent resisted violently the irs would have sever doubts about turning up to collect. problem is too many still want to be ruled, like yourself & you want others to be ruled as well, after centuries of brainwashing you think it's normal. so people like myself continue to trade through black (free) markets & live outside the system, spreading seeds of freedom, hopeful that our children, grand children & great grand children might one day enjoy a life outside tyranny & authoritarianism. until people start to realize that what's moral & what's immoral is more important than what is legal or illegal they'll continue to be slaves on the plantation & prisoners in a prison without walls, as aldous huxley said
Quote:
Originally Posted by TIC
I knew eventually you'd get to this.
The basic difference between you and I is that you seem to have more faith in people's ability to live within the basic principles of right and wrong (or good and evil, whichever you prefer). You feel that people, if left alone without laws, will naturally live orderly lives, respecting the rights of other people and other institutions. You feel people have the wisdom to recognize the boundaries that should exist in society.
If that's the case, I can understand your belief in anarchy.
I, on the other hand, have no such faith in people in general. Exhibit A (and B, C, D, etc., etc.) is the behavior of people in the States, increasingly under the two Trump administrations. Racism, hatred toward others, and censorship have become mainstream. People who used to be able to debate policy are now woefully unable to debate anything at all. It's all devolved into ugliness and mudslinging. I have ZERO faith in humanity's ability to govern themselves. Which is why laws are enacted and enforced. If governments were wise, they would make laws that benefited all people regardless of beliefs or positions in society. Sadly... the governments lately aren't any better than the brainless people who can't think for themselves and are devoid of any morals or character.
"Brainwashing" is the wrong word here. More like life experience, watching people at their absolute worst.
no the basic difference between us is that you believe some people should rule over other people & tell them what they can & can't do against their will with threats of violence if they don't, while i think the affairs of our lives in every interaction should be conducted under a voluntary, non force, consensual basis
i don't feel that people, if left alone without laws, will naturally live orderly lives, respecting the rights of other people, some may but i agree with you that there will always be some who choose to do evil, the fact is that laws have never & will never stop this
i have said before that politics is inherently divisive. what's legal is not always moral & what is illegal is not always immoral. for me it's better to be a moralist than a conformist
brainwashing may not be the right term but you have been born into this system & propagandized into believing that democracy is moral, when it's the opposite where the majority tell the minority what they can & can't do against their will with the threat of violence for refusing. that is completely illogical, if i have more people that agree with me than you do on something that doesn't make it moral for us to force you to do as we say & if you don't you'll be punished. that is immoral & is exactly what democracy is
off topic but just look at the definition of extortion, that is exactly what taxation is
also thanks for the civil discussion
We'll agree to disagree.
Admittedly though, it's tough to argue pro-government when a guy like Donald Trump is at the helm. This guy's not fit to run a lemonade stand, much less a country. Leaders should lead by example and earn people's respect. Not by fear, bullying, and intimidation.
I still believe laws are necessary, because people will always disagree between right and wrong. People will always differ in what society's priorities should be. Maybe the analogy of a team is not the best, but think of a team where everyone is pulling in different directions. You need some cohesiveness in a group of people. In this case a society. We don't live in isolation. Everything we do affects our neighbors. Our co-workers. Speaking of which, think of a company. If everyone is left free to decide what's best for the company, you get nowhere. Leaders are paid to make an entity successful. So this is a case where you have leaders giving everyone direction.
The U.S. model for a government has as of late proven to be completely flawed. But this is the fault of the people IN the government. Not the system itself. When the founding fathers got together and drew up the U.S. Constitution, they tried their best to draw up a government that would be accountable to the people, and not allow too much power to any one person or group. Under Trump, this has failed miserably. Trump is either an unhinged dictator shooting from the hip, with his GOP cohorts cowering under the table... or he's a masterfully created puppet of darker forces unseen to the public. Either way, it's a total disaster and the rest of the world is laughing at the U.S. every day.
Finally, let's talk about human nature. I was more optimistic on this topic some years back. But having seen the ugliness, the stupidity, the closemindedness of the masses... I'd have to say my level of faith in a large part of humanity is down to zero. Which is another reason I believe some sort of government is necessary. Otherwise, you have these brainless loonies running amok.
people will always disagree on right & wrong but if you wouldn't want something done to you, you shouldn't do it to others. people will always differ in what society's priorities are but they shouldn't be forced to fund things they disagree with
you & i can join or leave a team voluntarily at anytime, we are not forced to be a part of that team. everything we do does affect our neighbors but i don't force my neighbors to do things against their will with the threat of punishment if they refuse, my interactions are voluntary, non forceful & on a consensual basis. again you & i can join or leave a company voluntarily at anytime. if a team or company was forcing you to do something immoral you can choose to refuse or conform. there is a difference between someone leading say a project & someone ruling over another person. i know you like the apple & oranges term so it would be better not to use false equivalences
democracy has always been flawed as it starts from the premise that some people can rule over others & tell them what they can & can't do against their will, with threats of punishment if they refuse. the constitution has always been a fraud, you & i both know that not everyone agreed & not one hundred percent of people signed, so some were making decisions for other adults without their agreement or consent. it became a total joke when the supreme court gave themselves alone the power to interpret it. the constitution failed from the start, not just under donald, weren't blacks segregated for a long time, doesn't seem very equal, traffic laws infringe on the fourth amendment daily & every gun law is an infringement on the second amendment but i digress
let's talk about human nature, all your laws haven't stopped the ugliness, the stupidity, the closemindedness of the masses (there's a good book called the crowd: a study of the popular mind that you might enjoy). as you & i are having this discussion, i can say for myself that i conduct the affairs of my life in every interaction under a voluntary, non force, consensual basis. i'd like to think you do as well but i don't want to speak on your behalf. can i ask you this, if there was no sort of government tomorrow would you become a brainless loony running amok? we have already agreed that there will always be some who choose to do evil, it sounds like you want some parent type government to keep you safe. that sounds to me like what the mob did in neighbourhoods, pay us & we'll protect you. i don't need a ruler to defend myself & those around me
so back to my original point, you believe it's moral for some people to rule over others & tell them what they can & can't do with threats of punishment if they refuse because as you said if they don't you have these brainless loonies running amok, the problem is these brainless loonies are still running amok. the government won't be there to help you if you get robbed or attacked or if your wife gets raped, they'll send their policy enforcers to investigate the mess, because when seconds count the cops will be there in minutes, that's where being able to defend yourself & others becomes a priority
Quote:
Originally Posted by TIC
Good discussion. :)
"You shouldn't do it to others." Sounds great, but unfortunately not everyone lives by that principle. Hence, the need for laws to dissuade them from violating that. By funding I presume you mean taxation. I feel that some sort of public funding is necessary for the very basic, core needs of a society, such as infrastructure. However, I'll admit that the implementation of taxation rules most of the time leaves a lot to be desired. Which is why people are pissed at politicians more often than not.
laws don’t dissuade everyone either. laws either take power away from an individual or transfer wealth. by funding i mainly mean taxation but without stealing from the people the government has nothing. they don’t produce anything, they are parasites living off the backs of others. if something can’t be funded voluntarily then it doesn’t need to be done. i’m sure aware that there was a time that the usa had no income tax. if people support something they will fund it if they feel it is necessary or benefits them, remember people crowd funding for trumps wall? just look at onlyfans, patreon, give a little, buy me a coffee et cetera, people will freely fund things they support
A company is maybe not the best analogy, but the fact remains that unless you work for yourself, independently... you'll be working for some sort of company. In a company you have rules. You may not agree with some of them. But in order to remain employed, you must follow them. Not only that, but you will have a boss. The boss decides on what you'll do, and will evaluate you. Sort of like a ruler, you might say. Yes... you can always leave a company. But in order to make a living (again, unless you work independently), you'll just have to go work for another company. You'll have another boss.
rules are not the same as a ruler. i live by my own rules everyday. the problem with your analogy is that it is voluntary, you are choosing to be there, you can opt out, yes you may have to make a living but there are plenty of ways to make money outside the system. you can’t opt out of government. a boss is not the same as a ruler, if your boss says you need to give me a percentage of your wage each week, you can walk out & find another way to make money, nothing will happen to you, there’ll be no punishment from the boss, if you avoid paying the governments demands they send people to collect, if you still refuse they will try to put you in a cage & if you try defend yourself from this theft they’ll kill you
I think you place too much emphasis on "people ruling over others and telling them what they can and can't do against their will, with threats of punishment." I prefer to think of government (if implemented correctly) as an organized way to provide the services needed by society (infrastructure, education, health services, national defense, etc.). I don't believe in a huge government that sticks its nose in matters that should not be its concern... so in that regard, I favor the Republican party point of view. The segregation of blacks? That wasn't a flaw in democracy. That was a huge flaw in humanity. Again... by and large I have very little faith in people's concept of right and wrong. Traffic laws and gun laws? Totally necessary, IMO. Left up to individual criteria, society would be a total mess of road rage, accidents left and right, and chaos. Gun laws are meant to put limits on people who can't discern between protecting your home and family, and wanting weapons of mass destruction. (Many times lacking the mental and emotional fortitude to have guns at all).
people ruling over others and telling them what they can and can't do against their will, with threats of punishment is exactly what it is. the government is just the middleman, they don’t build the roads, they are not the teachers, doctors or nurses or soldiers. as i mentioned before people will fund what they support & with free markets you get competition, example if you have a project at your house & you get five quotes from separate contractors, you can compare the prices, products, time frame, ideas et cetera & choose the best deal, with government it’s usually overpriced, poorly done, lengthy or in many cases not necessary. the blacks being segregated was regarding the declaration of independence saying all men are created equal but we can just look at slavery being legal being a flaw in democracy. traffic laws & gun laws shit all over the constitution. are you saying that without traffic laws you would be road raging & having accidents left & right? look at somewhere like india, their roads look like chaos to us but if you spend some time there you’ll see that as chaotic is it appears it works. A side story, there was an intersection in the uk i think, i can’t remember the name, it was notorious for accidents & problems at a high rate, anyway the government tried for years different things to improve it with no luck, eventually they ended up just taking down everything & just let people work it out for themselves & things improved by themselves. the gun laws in the usa were very lax until the blacks started arming themselves, do some research around black codes & the mulford act regarding the black panther party
If there was no government tomorrow, I'd be the same, sane, responsible, moral person I've always been. Would I have faith in the rest of society to carry on civilly, respecting the rights of others? That's a HELL NO from me. If there was no government tomorrow, you bet I'd take steps to ensure me and my family were protected from "brainless loonies running amok." By the way, I presume you've seen the "Purge" movies?
i would also be the same, sane, responsible, moral person I've always been & so would many of my friends & family, as I’m sure many of your friends & family would be as well & there would be many others, just like there is now. just because there is no government doesn’t mean everyone will then choose to do evil. we have already agreed that there will always be some that will choose to do evil, even with government so it seems strange to me that you don’t already take steps to protect yourself & your family
I'm realistic enough to know that having a government and law enforcement has never stopped the existence of loonies and criminals. But in many cases, you can depend on law enforcement to right a wrong. Again, I use my judgement to tell me when I can defer to law enforcement, and when I have to take matters into my own hands.
i just look at things like the knapp commission, the mollen commission, over here we had the wood royal commission, to see how full of shit law enforcement is. in many cases they create a wrong. i’m sure you’ve heard about the hundreds of people charged with a dui even after blowing triple zeros. they shot john hurley after he stopped a shooter & how can we forget the 376 cowardly uvalde officers, not one of them valued a child’s life over their own as few examples, you & i probably couldn’t even list all the examples of police corruption & incompetency
but yes, good discussion
After Tuesday election results it looks like there is a real backlash against Trump.
I think it's way overdue to seriously consider doing away with the traditional two-party system in the U.S.
Why? Easy. People with conservative views, and dislike for the extremist Democratic Party and its weak leadership, have been forced to choose between that... and that poor excuse for a President in the White House now. There is NO middle ground. You can no longer say, well... I like this policy from the Republicans, but I like that policy from the Democrats. It's either fall in line with the MAGA cult... or side with a Democratic Party that frankly leaves a lot to be desired.
I realize that running as an Independent has always been an uphill battle. But maybe it's time to rethink politics in the United States. Why not do a complete overhaul? It certainly can't get any worse than it is right now. This two-party crap has taken away people's critical thinking. You either side with this gang, or that gang. People run to extremes, because their brains have been programmed to be fanatics. They don't think. They follow. Blindly.
If there has been ANY argument to do away with the current political system in the U.S., it's what has been happening in the past decade, since Trump was first elected.
I prefer first past the post electoral process which does lead to a 2 party system. You have a strong government who can get on implementing their manifesto. No excuses if they fail.
Other proportional representation systems lead to fragile governments who have to make deals with minority parties which is undemocratic and destabilising.
Well... to each his own. So far we've seen people grudgingly side with either the MAGA cult, or the anti-MAGA group. No middle ground accepted. I can't think of anything more destabilizing than that. It gets worse as time goes along, too. Personally, I'd rather have a government made up of wise, moderate leaders who aren't afraid to cross party lines on certain and specific issues. Me... I agree with the Republican stance on many things... but the Democratic stance on others. Neither party has all the answers. And with kooks like Trump running the government and terrorizing anyone who doesn't kiss his ass... things are bound to get much worse.