Today in Trump

And there we have it 0 Americans injured, minimal damage by Iran's missile strikes, and President Donald Trump comes out and says (paraphrasing) 'This should wrap it up, we've got the better weapons/armed forces and we could wallop you, but we don't wish to so let's all chill out'


Sooooooo where's this war then? Where's the mushroom cloud? Where's the massive retaliation and "Death to America"?



Nothing happened because Iran knows better.



That said, apparently a Ukrainian Boeing airliner was shot out of the sky over Tehran ....oopsie poopsie. And there was also CURIOUSLY this:

Earthquake strikes Iran near nuclear plant
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news...nuclear-power/

If you think nothing will happen by Iran then you do not know better. They can not have a war with US so they will do it though proxy wars as they have been doing for years.

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Originally Posted by Master

If you think nothing will happen by Iran then you do not know better. They can not have a war with US so they will do it though proxy wars as they have been doing for years.

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Well their first attempt has failed miserably which tells us all what?

Here are a few possibilities
1. Iran's military are impotent
2. Iranian leaders have had enough and want no more and only fired those missiles off to save face
3. Suleimani wasn't all that important to them


I personally lean towards possibility #2.


Do you have a different take?

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by Master

If you think nothing will happen by Iran then you do not know better. They can not have a war with US so they will do it though proxy wars as they have been doing for years.

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Well their first attempt has failed miserably which tells us all what?

Here are a few possibilities
1. Iran's military are impotent
2. Iranian leaders have had enough and want no more and only fired those missiles off to save face
3. Suleimani wasn't all that important to them


I personally lean towards possibility #2.


Do you have a different take?

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They will use asymmetrical warfare where they use others to carry out attacks on the USA. In short nothing will have changed.

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Originally Posted by Master

They will use asymmetrical warfare where they use others to carry out attacks on the USA. In short nothing will have changed.

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If "nothing will have changed" why all the fuss about the drone strike? Why all the worship over Suleimani?

Time will tell if Esmail Ghaani (Suleimani's replacement) has his mind set on similar strategies OR maybe he's got his finger up and the wind in Iran isn't blowing towards war with America? But what everyone should know understand without a doubt is (and I think it's fairly clear): Don't fuck with Donald Trump. Barack Obama gave a "red line" talk to Syria. they crossed it (supposedly) and he did NOTHING. He bent over backwards to make Iran friendly with us again and you know what they chanted when they got their unfrozen assets back? The same shit they ALWAYS chant, "Death to America!" They took that money and used it to kill and wound not only Americans, but Iranians who protest the Ayatollah.

Trump has been a man of his word. He hasn't started any more wars, he has his red line, this fucker Suleimani habitually crossed it and Trump squashed him. It's a lesson which apparently Iran has learned for the time being, we'll see how well they retain this information in the days, weeks, and months ahead.


You seem disappointed that Trump got this guy AND didn't pay a consequence for it....why is that? This is the same reason Labour loses bud, it LOOKS like you're siding with the enemy. The Democrats have hitched their wagon to this and it's not going to be pretty for them going forward.

"Don't fuck with Donald Trump ?"

I thought you lived in a constitutional Republic not a bizarre theocratic dictatorship ruled by a cult of celebrity, conman criminal dictator in some weird parallel universe. You will be erecting statues in gold of him next, and have him staring down from billboards across the country ....oooh hang on ;D


https://static.independent.co.uk/s3f....jpg?width=668

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Originally Posted by Beanz

"Don't fuck with Donald Trump ?"

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as opposed to other Presidents, yes, absolutely.

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Originally Posted by Beanz

I thought you lived in a constitutional Republic not a bizarre theocratic dictatorship ruled by a cult of celebrity, conman criminal dictator in some weird parallel universe. You will be erecting statues in gold of him next, and have him staring down from billboards across the country ....oooh hang on ;D

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Well I haven't compared Trump to any Biblical character, nor do I worship him as a god. I think it's rather bizarre.

conman criminal dictator...do you EVER provide any examples?

If Trump wanted a statue of himself it probably would be in gold given his tastes, but he'd have had that by now surely.

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Originally Posted by Beanz

https://static.independent.co.uk/s3f....jpg?width=668

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Whoever did that it's in poor taste....what, you think I won't say that? What's the purpose of posting it here? I mean I could show you similar things of Obama or W or either Clinton...I find it in poor taste, but I'm sorry the point you were attempting to make was what again?

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

@TitoFan, You think Trump likes "yes men", ok, as evidenced by what? You say he's got a big ego and surely he comes across as having one sometimes, but ask yourself this "Could Donald Trump (not President Trump, but Donald) have achieved what he has with that attitude and ONLY being surrounded by 'Yes Men'?" I don't think he'd be successful in business much less in politics with such an attitude. He's got to have SOME savvy to him doesn't he? As for your "The Intelligence community is a unit." no, it is not a unit and the FBI/CIA carrying out of the smear campaign on Donald Trump should clue everyone into that. Much like I said with Spicoli, the Intelligence Community much like the media, has made SEVERAL "mistakes" and those "mistakes" have been passed along and passed along and nobody has paid for them and they kept happening...but notice it's one way traffic, Hillary Clinton dealt with 0 mistakes....isn't that odd. I mean IF the investigators were inept then surely they'd be inept regardless of political party right? However, there are good people, people not with Trump's best interests but the best interests of the American people who work in Intelligence and I believe that is who Trump gets his information from guys like Adm. Rogers from the NSA and not people like say Brennan or Clapper or McCabe or Comey. I can say it until I'm blue in the face, but they attempted to entrap Donald Trump and you won't see it until you see it or maybe you won't ever see it, but I see it and it explains a lot of his actions. So that being the case, all I can ask of you is to employ a strategy of your own, whenever Trump does something like strike an Iranian terrorist leader out of the clear blue and the media goes nuts over it ask yourself why and look at it yes from your point of view (which I certainly understand if I'm following media as is, accepting what they say as gospel) and then look at it where it makes sense from trump's standpoint....it's hard to do, but it helps answer a lot of questions.

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You need only go as far as former Defense Secretary James Mattis. Trump fans will undoubtedly rush to Trump's defense and recite verbatim all the insults and accusations Trump leveled at Mattis. But to the rest of the nation it's plain to see that Trump couldn't stand having someone on his staff that just might know a little more about certain areas than he does. Give me a break. Saying he knows more about NATO than Mattis does..... calling him the most overrated general... this isn't the mark of a man, much less a President, who's "all there." Trump has made plenty of shitty and self-serving appointments during his term. But he's been lauded on some of them. Mattis was one of those people, and one who, handled properly, could've been of great service to the country. But Trump's gigantic ego would never allow that to happen. No..... this point is super clear to me. I'm sure there are other examples, but this one was a high-profile one. If you kiss Trump's ass, you'll be in his inner circle, at least for a while. If you dare disagree with him or... perish the thought.... criticize him..... you're dog meat. Sounds very much like an egotistical A-hole to me.

Myths of Trump's success in business have been greatly exaggerated. Many people, given his golden cradle circumstances, would've mirrored Trump's accomplishments and probably even surpassed them. His business failures are well known... so no need to go into those. To your claims that oh why was he so loved as an entrepreneur and is now so hated as POTUS, I'll just continue saying.... "It's one thing to have a funny TV show where you get to say "YOU'RE FIRED!" to your heart's content....... it's quite another to have the specter of this joker as President. Again, being President isn't just about haggling over real estate deals and being all businessman-like. It's about knowing when to be diplomatic and talking and acting like the leader of the most powerful country in the free world. You yourself called him the Rodney Dangerfield of Presidents. Why is that a good thing?? We don't need a bull in a china shop knocking over all the expensive china while making a purchase. I would think the country needs someone with the temperament, lack of Gibraltar-sized ego and self-centeredness, and just overall personality to be a true leader. I just don't see it.

Maybe his taking out of Suleimani was a good thing. Like I said the jury's still out. It probably had to be done sooner or later. Annnddd... I agree with you with this "red line in the sand" business. Just like in our own lives, a President is ill-advised when he draws lines in the sand and then backs off. It becomes open season on the U.S. because the President is perceived as a pussy. I think the U.S. had enough of that with Jimmy Carter.

israel's not interested in kenya

Trump appears to be delusional. Does he have no recollection of US foreign policy in Libya, Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan when describing the horror of Iran since 1979? Iran is really minor all things considered. When he says the worlds leading terrorist is dead, does he not realize that George Bush is tottering around painting pictures like an aged Michael Corleone having unleashed the war on terror and taken away American freedoms? No interest in handing him over to the Hague to prove a point? Oh well. No arrest of Hillary for Libya? Was that not pretty bad terrorism? And then back on with being strong economically despite how much debt and the interest rates where and the central banks printing again? It is all total double speak.

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

You need only go as far as former Defense Secretary James Mattis. Trump fans will undoubtedly rush to Trump's defense and recite verbatim all the insults and accusations Trump leveled at Mattis. But to the rest of the nation it's plain to see that Trump couldn't stand having someone on his staff that just might know a little more about certain areas than he does. Give me a break. Saying he knows more about NATO than Mattis does..... calling him the most overrated general... this isn't the mark of a man, much less a President, who's "all there." Trump has made plenty of shitty and self-serving appointments during his term. But he's been lauded on some of them. Mattis was one of those people, and one who, handled properly, could've been of great service to the country. But Trump's gigantic ego would never allow that to happen. No..... this point is super clear to me. I'm sure there are other examples, but this one was a high-profile one. If you kiss Trump's ass, you'll be in his inner circle, at least for a while. If you dare disagree with him or... perish the thought.... criticize him..... you're dog meat. Sounds very much like an egotistical A-hole to me.

Myths of Trump's success in business have been greatly exaggerated. Many people, given his golden cradle circumstances, would've mirrored Trump's accomplishments and probably even surpassed them. His business failures are well known... so no need to go into those. To your claims that oh why was he so loved as an entrepreneur and is now so hated as POTUS, I'll just continue saying.... "It's one thing to have a funny TV show where you get to say "YOU'RE FIRED!" to your heart's content....... it's quite another to have the specter of this joker as President. Again, being President isn't just about haggling over real estate deals and being all businessman-like. It's about knowing when to be diplomatic and talking and acting like the leader of the most powerful country in the free world. You yourself called him the Rodney Dangerfield of Presidents. Why is that a good thing?? We don't need a bull in a china shop knocking over all the expensive china while making a purchase. I would think the country needs someone with the temperament, lack of Gibraltar-sized ego and self-centeredness, and just overall personality to be a true leader. I just don't see it.

Maybe his taking out of Suleimani was a good thing. Like I said the jury's still out. It probably had to be done sooner or later. Annnddd... I agree with you with this "red line in the sand" business. Just like in our own lives, a President is ill-advised when he draws lines in the sand and then backs off. It becomes open season on the U.S. because the President is perceived as a pussy. I think the U.S. had enough of that with Jimmy Carter.

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I love General Mattis, he's fucking brilliant! I think when it came to his being Secretary of Defense he accomplished what HE was there to do as far as Trump saw it. There's ALWAYS turnover in the Cabinet, look at any President. Obama's Secretaries of Defense all served 2 years a piece, where's the talk about HIM being surrounded by "Yes Men"? If it's all based on demeanor in public, that's rather shallow I'd say. Trump had John Bolton as National Security Adviser, Bolton is THE absolute War Hawk...think Trump followed all of his advice? No, sometimes it's good to have a counter view which is why Bolton is there. Bolton is ALSO there to scare enemies of America "Hey fellas, they have Bolton advising, he's literally salivating about going to war with anyone. I guess let's hold off on our attack".

Look at Attorney General Sessions, Trump railed and railed against him...now I don't think he did everything correctly, but I believe he played an integral part in what is to come. Notice the lack of leaks from Sessions' office during this time period? That doesn't escape me.

Also Trump is selecting people for positions from a talent CESSpool when it comes to being an "outsider" and in the positions needing Congressional approval it's difficult to get someone not of the swamp through that process...and that too is important to understand.

He was beloved before his tv show, he was considered funny and successful well before then. His failures? Absolutely he has had failures, some doozies...but that's him isn't it? He's come from on high, gambled, lost, and climbed the ladder back up to the top...if that isn't American I don't know what is. Americans love 2 things 1. A fall from grace 2. A Comeback story...if this isn't the comeback of all comebacks I don't know what is.

Where has temperament got us? W and Obama had temperament did they not? Wars wars wars...Trump just nipped war with Iran in the bud AND simultaneously made it easier for American troops to do their business in Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, etc and get the hell out of those places....Trump couldn't immediately just bring everyone home, this is going to be a process and his not taking any bullshit from Lil Kim or Suleimani or whomever SHOULD make this easier. Trump IS different from your typical run of the mill politician, he catches hell because of it sometimes rightfully so, but big picture he's doing a hell of a good job.

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

Trump appears to be delusional. Does he have no recollection of US foreign policy in Libya, Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan when describing the horror of Iran since 1979? Iran is really minor all things considered. When he says the worlds leading terrorist is dead, does he not realize that George Bush is tottering around painting pictures like an aged Michael Corleone having unleashed the war on terror and taken away American freedoms? No interest in handing him over to the Hague to prove a point? Oh well. No arrest of Hillary for Libya? Was that not pretty bad terrorism? And then back on with being strong economically despite how much debt and the interest rates where and the central banks printing again? It is all total double speak.

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Iran is minor? Suleimani was in Baghdad getting Iraqis to storm the US Embassy. Embassies are the soil of the nations represented, so if Americans were say to storm an embassy here it could be viewed as an attack on that nation. Also this wasn't Suleimani's first time stirring the turd like this, it was his JOB to do that shit throughout the region. If not for President Trump's swift action it could have been another Benghazi. The press seems disappointed that it wasn't. I believe Trump is well aware of previous foreign policy, it's why he referenced 1979 and 52 targets (there were 52 hostages in 1979) those were previous blunders of Presidents and foreign policy pundits and the CIA et al and Trump has said before "history evolves, it doesn't repeat itself" it's why he and Kim Jong Un have been able to get along fairly well all things considered.

Gandalf, just how quickly can things in regard to foreign policy change? What you want some immediate global revolution? Yeah THAT sounds stable, that sounds like nobody woul dbe hurt or killed in the mass confusion it would cause....shit is going to happen slowly and steadily. For every positive move Trump makes, there's going to be factions both foreign and domestic attempting to trip him up....Suleimani happened to be one of those guys and the reaction from Iran shows either they knew and needed to save face OR they are completely and utterly inept and we've got nothing to fear from them.

I understand the concern about these things, I too was concerned and then the non-retaliation happened...and everything is fine bar for Suleimani and that should send a loud and clear messageto others like Suleimani.


Good move by Trump, I wish it didn't HAVE to happen, but yeah Suleimani was a bad dude and he got what bad dudes should get.

To put it in simplistic terms minor as compared to a full on invasion based on lies leading to the death of half a million people. Minor as compared with say McCain hanging out with the leader of Isis and then conveniently having the Middle East at war again soon after. This man was a thug, but it is the same as droning McCain at that precise point in time. It is not how countries behave. To kill like that is itself terrorism.

You seem to think it in terms of baddies and goodies, but are selective about your baddies. You have genuine war criminals living freely on your soil with not even an arrest at work.

The truth is no American would be dead at all had international law been respected in 2005. If you do not want dead troops then surely a slightly capable mind see when the risk went up.

can...pre coffee typographical error of the most outlandish kind.

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

To put it in simplistic terms minor as compared to a full on invasion based on lies leading to the death of half a million people. Minor as compared with say McCain hanging out with the leader of Isis and then conveniently having the Middle East at war again soon after. This man was a thug, but it is the same as droning McCain at that precise point in time. It is not how countries behave. To kill like that is itself terrorism.

You seem to think it in terms of baddies and goodies, but are selective about your baddies. You have genuine war criminals living freely on your soil with not even an arrest at work.

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Well Donald Trump was a private citizen when the War in Iraq (take 2) started and yes he got asked about it while a private citizen and his responses varied but most often times he leaned against war and said the economy should be the focus. And that's without benefit (or detriment) of intelligence.

McCain was one of those guys, Republican or Democrat they shapeshift and do the bidding of some "higher power" and they have some "higher loyalty" and sure it SOUNDS conspiratorial but I mean when you look at it and try to reason it out what actually makes sense? Always ask CUI BONO? Certainly the American taxpayer doesn't benefit, the average working man doesn't benefit, the small business doesn't benefit (not typically at least)...corporations on the other hand, they benefit a great deal, big industry benefits.

I do think it terms of goodies and baddies, I find America's political situation for the average citizen to be a wonderful thing, I think our foreign policy has had some MAJOR mistakes and it's worth questioning if those were by accident or on purpose and that's really the crux of my issues with America. In regards to Iran...my view, I want America out, done and dusted with this war and that happens via clear victory. How is a clear victory obtained when forces from outside the nation we're in the war with are causing troubles and amping up more enemies? Hit the leader doing that and at the very least bring a halt to their immediate plans and give American forces the chance to gain ground (metaphorically speaking) and victory might be quicker and less deadly, HOPEFULLY quicker and less deadly.

There's plenty of Iranians happy Suleimani is dead too, plenty of Syrians and Iraqis too....and not ALL of those folks are Sunni, some are Shia who don't want war and that's good.

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

The truth is no American would be dead at all had international law been respected in 2005. If you do not want dead troops then surely a slightly capable mind see when the risk went up.

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9/11 sent a lot of people into a blind rage and truth be told I didn't ask as many questions of the media then as I do now. The outlets saying "Hold up, let's think about this" at the time were being drowned out by a mainstream media push to conflict.

Suleimani was 1 person, it didn't trigger a new war...this is a good result for everyone except Suleimani.