Kobe or Lebron?

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Originally Posted by Starr

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Originally Posted by TheDukeof74

Lebron, Kobe is a punk bitch.

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:lol: Don't talk about LeBron's idol and mentor like that ;)

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Starr...you're making stuff up. I'm a Warriors fan and Lebron fan after that and I know for a fact that his real idol and mentor was MJ. And his "mentor" is Iverson because of his time on the Olympic team with him.

Actually. LeBron has been on record saying that Kobe was one of his idols and is a mentor of him. So apparently you haven't heard everything ;)

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Originally Posted by Starr

Actually. LeBron has been on record saying that Kobe was one of his idols and is a mentor of him. So apparently you haven't heard everything ;)

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Wanna show me a link to this? I would REALLY like to see this.

Kobe's better as of right now at certian things, but he doesn't have what is going to make Lebron the best ever... Kobe hasn't possessed the composure, the ability to see a play before it happens the way Labron does, and thats why Labron could easily become the best player ever while Kobe will just be a Jordan wannabe despite being among the best ever already.

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Originally Posted by Starr

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Originally Posted by shza

Kobe is an extremely selfish player on the court and a prima donna off the court, all of which leads to his team mates not respecting him and being unwilling to give it the extra 10% when necessary (not that he passes to them much anyway--you're

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Funny, every other teammate says the opposite, particularly Lamar Odom and Smush Parker who say that Kobe is all about getting people involved and has since only going to go on those scoring routes when he absolutely has to.

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Hmm. That's funny, because I could swear that the most talented teammate he ever had, as well as his former and now once-again coach said that he was a selfish, "uncoachable" asshole. As did every all-star veteran who joined the Lakers for Shaq's last year there (repeatedly stating that they came to play with Shaq, not with Kobe).

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Originally Posted by Starr

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Originally Posted by shza

in the playoffs; in a lot of those games, it was the same old ball hog kobe).

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He wasn't even the leading scorer in the games they won and he averaged 8 or 9 assists in those playoffs, and he was 4th on the scorers on his team during that playoffs and in Game 4 the layup that tied it was his own shot of the 4th quarter.

Yea he was sure a ballhog in the playoffs ::**

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You are only proving my point. When Kobe plays like a team player (rarely), the Lakers can win. He's a selfish prick though, and can't help himself. The Lakers were up 3-1, and Kobe had only been the Lakers' leading scorer in one of those victories (as well as in the loss). Kobe was the Lakers' leading scorer for the remainder of the series, and THEY LOST EVERY SINGLE REMAINING GAME (including the game where kobe went for 50). Just to make this clear: in ALL FOUR of the lakers losses, kobe was the lakers' leading scorer. Bottom line: Kobe is an incorrigible ball hog and it hurts his team. You'd think he would have learned by now.

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Originally Posted by Starr

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Originally Posted by shza

and odom is better than anyone lebron's got, so don't even go there.

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ARE YOU KIDDING ME!!?!?!?!?! Lamar is more inconsistant then George Bush on terrorists ;)

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and better than anyone lebron's got. and if you want to throw up larry hughes, please remember that lebron's led the cavs over THE BEST TEAM IN THE LEAGUE without hughes for three games straight.

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Originally Posted by Starr

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Originally Posted by shza

jordan won 6 with pippen and a bunch of schwag, so if kobe's so great he ought to be able to at least get into round 2 of the playoffs with odom on his team.

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Odom isn't comparable ti Pippen since Pippen was more consistant. But Jordan never won a championship without Pipper and Pippen never won a championship without Jordan.

Now lets look at the lineup of some of those Bulls teams hmm..

Steve Kerr NATURAL STARTER

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:lolhaha:

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Originally Posted by Starr

Ron Harper NATURAL STARTER

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:lolhaha:

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Originally Posted by Starr

Scottie Pippen NATURAL STARTER

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yep, that's one

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Originally Posted by Starr

Paxon STARTER

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:lolhaha:

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Originally Posted by Starr

Dennis Rodman NATURAL STARTER and leader in the NBA in rebounds when he was in Detroit.

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How old was Dennis when he got to Chicago--like 40? Throw in the rockstar lifestyle at that point, and don't get me wrong--he wasn't bad, but don't go throwing up Detroit stats like it's the same player we're talking about. He also obviously wasn't on the team for the first three titles.

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Originally Posted by Starr

Now you look at some of the lineup on Kobe's team for the last few

Smush Parker their starting point

NBDL player who was last off the bench for every NBA Team he started

Kwame Brown

First round washout who's confidence was shattered BY Jordan at Washington just starting to come into his own and not a natural starter, just as a laker when Mihm was injured

Chris Mihm

Off the bench center but starts for the lakers, but NOT a Natural starter throughoug his career, only as a Laker.

Kobe Bryant NATURAL STARTER

Lamar Odom NATURAL STARTER

Luke Walton.....

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Aaron Mckie Off the bench point guard for Philly

Sasha their second PG I think it played overseas in the italian league.

brian cook, not a natural starter, just started to come to his own this year

deavon george, not a natural starter and inconsistant

I don't see 5 Natural starters on any of the Laker's squad(for the last year) when compared with the Bulls that was so dominant, so to say Jordan only had Pippen on his team is in Mike Tyson's words ludacris!!! :)

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You're just as bad with the basketball anaylsis as you are with the boxing, huh? You're totally missing the point. A player like Jordan has the leadership and intangibles to make schmucks like Ron Harper look like a "natural starter" to you. He'd make Smush Parker and Luke Walton look just as good if he were in Kobe's place.

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Originally Posted by Starr

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Originally Posted by shza

lebron was runner up in MVP voting this year at age 21. kobe has NEVER been ranked so highly by GMs and others who study the game for a living.

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it's called hype and politics ;)

And how many times has LeBron made both the NBA All first team and the NBA all first team in defense ???

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It'll happen soon enough. He's got the first part of it done already (with more votes than anyone else in the NBA this year)--something Kobe never did at his age. But I thought that was all "hype and politics" anyway, Starr?

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Originally Posted by SecondRoundKO

Hmm. That's funny, because I could swear that the most talented teammate he ever had, as well as his former and now once-again coach said that he was a selfish, "uncoachable" asshole. As did every all-star veteran who joined the Lakers for Shaq's last year there (repeatedly stating that they came to play with Shaq, not with Kobe).

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I only red as far as the uncoachable. Because with that statement I know you haven't read the book at all but you just listened to what the media said. I read the book so... there's more to it then that and more to what Phil said that the media didn't quote ;)

And I stopped believing Shaq when he did the same thing with Penny Hardaway, he said the same kind of stuff too ;)

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Bottom line: Kobe is an incorrigible ball hog and it hurts his team. You'd think he would have learned by now.

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And yet he only shot 3 times in the 2nd half.. hmm.. yea a ballhog ::**

You just take all what the media says and already have an opinion on Kobe. whatever I'm not gonna spend the next 30 minutes here proving you wrong. I won't waste my time. You think what you think, I'll think what I think.

And one other thing. Kobe only went for 50 WHEN HE WAS TRYING TO BRING HIS TEAM BACK FROM 20 DOWN WHEN NO ONE ELSE WAS MAKING SHOTS!!!!

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Originally Posted by Starr

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Originally Posted by SecondRoundKO

Bottom line: Kobe is an incorrigible ball hog and it hurts his team. You'd think he would have learned by now.

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And yet he only shot 3 times in the 2nd half.. hmm.. yea a ballhog ::**

You just take all what the media says and already have an opinion on Kobe. whatever I'm not gonna spend the next 30 minutes here proving you wrong. I won't waste my time. You think what you think, I'll think what I think.

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No, I watch the game. And you don't pay any attention to what I'm saying. Or supply any relevant counterarguments. Look at the stats, Starr, I cited them for you. Kobe was the Lakers' highest scorer in 5 out of the 7 games against the Suns. They lost four of those five games. They do pretty well when he's not the highest scorer (i.e., plays unselfishly). Unfortunately, he's congenitally unable to do that for 4 games out of a 7 game series--his loss.

If you watched the game you'd notice that Kobe only tried to start scoring when they were down by about 15 and he HAD to score because he was giving passes which people were fumbling or were missing easy set up shots he gave them ;)

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Originally Posted by Starr

If you watched the game you'd notice that Kobe only tried to start scoring when they were down by about 15 and he HAD to score because he was giving passes which people were fumbling or were missing easy set up shots he gave them ;)

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Yes, his teammates are unconfident because he doesn't inspire confidence in them. Great players do that--they make others around them better.

OH COME ON NOW!!!! Don't start that they couldn;t make the shots because he doesn't inspire confidence that's BULLSHIT!

They punked up! Kwame punked up, Lamae punked up, Smush punked up, everybody punked up!!!! He'd been getting them involved and after gave 4 he kept trying to keep them involved and all of a sudden Kwame can't catch a pass and Lamar can't make a lay up. They punked up. And thats not a fault of Kobe.

And who did Jordan ever make a better individual player ??? Kerr and Harper, and Rodman and Pippen were already good.

Name someone Jordan made better that weren't good already and a natural starter ???

Jordan already had the talent on his team and with his skill found ways to use it for the entire teams advantage ;)

but who did he make better ???

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Originally Posted by Starr

OH COME ON NOW!!!! Don't start that they couldn;t make the shots because he doesn't inspire confidence that's BULLSHIT!

They punked up! Kwame punked up, Lamae punked up, Smush punked up, everybody punked up!!!! He'd been getting them involved and after gave 4 he kept trying to keep them involved and all of a sudden Kwame can't catch a pass and Lamar can't make a lay up. They punked up. And thats not a fault of Kobe.

And who did Jordan ever make a better individual player ??? Kerr and Harper, and Rodman and Pippen were already good.

Name someone Jordan made better that weren't good already and a natural starter ???

Jordan already had the talent on his team and with his skill found ways to use it for the entire teams advantage ;)

but who did he make better ???

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Starr are you serious? Please, oh my God. Scottie Pippen was a SOLID player, NO DOUBT. But do you think...by any conceivable stretch of the imagination that there would be any way he would be one of the NBA's top 50 All Time players without Jordan? NO. That's the answer and it speaks volumes that you are even talking like this. Tony Kukoc, hell I can't even spell his name but under Jordan he was a premeir NBA player. I don't beleive you just said that. I hate to say it but you're credibility on this issue is going down like crazy. That's unbeleivable. Seriously there are no words for saying Jordan didn't make any of his teammates better. To say I expected better would be an understatement of epic proportions. Wow.

I don't think that at all. I think that they worked well together and formed a chemistry that work and made each other more consistant and made each other better.

I compare them to Stockton and Malone, they wouldn't be one without the other.

It all comes down to team chemistry as well. It's not just an individual effort to make another individual player. it's a team that becomes better AS A TEAM! And no they wouldn't have had that without MJ. But thats not what I asked ;)

I will also say that Jordan was never Jordan until those teammates was he ;)

Michael Jordan didn't become MICHAEL JORDAN until about 7 years in the league ;)

I don't think you get what I'm saying but not many people do :)

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Originally Posted by Starr

And who did Jordan ever make a better individual player ??? Kerr and Harper, and Rodman and Pippen were already good.

Name someone Jordan made better that weren't good already and a natural starter ???

but who did he make better ???

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I can let you take that back now if you want. Cuz out of all the wrong things you've said, that's easily the wrongest, both in the abstract and in the particulars.

Jordan made every single player on those Bulls teams better than they ever were before (except Rodman) or would ever be again, or would have been without him--and that definitely includes Pippen. Your categorization of Ron Harper and Steve Kerr as "natural starters" is no less ridiculous now that the last time you said it. How about clumsy old Bill Cartwright--was he a "natural starter" as well? Did Jordan not make him better than he would have been. BJ Armstrong--natural starter? This is a fucking joke.

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Originally Posted by Starr

Jordan already had the talent on his team and with his skill found ways to use it for the entire teams advantage ;)

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Yes, that's what we're talking about. That's really just another way of describing the same thing. Jordan, with his skill found ways to advantageously use his teammates limited skills, while suppressing their shortcomings as much as possible, for the entire team's advantage. These schmucks didn't do it themselves. And neither can Kobe's "supporting cast"--the difference is that Kobe, unlike Jordan, can't do it for them.