Was the performance of B-Hop against Tarver enough to win over Roy?

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Originally Posted by smashcrusher

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Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather

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Originally Posted by smashcrusher

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Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather

I didn't answer because i can't intelligently specualte about why he moved up other than to win the title in different weight classes..other than that i don't know...besides bernard should be happy roy moved up because that's why he got to "dominate" MW division for so long...courtesy of roy jones leaving the division...but its cool though..benard did what every other
graduate of "THE PRIME ROY JONES SCHOOL OF ASSWHOOPING" was supposed to do and that's go be a champ...

just like: Eric lucas, james toney, julio gonzales, lou de valle, otis grant, clinton woods, montel griffin, eric harding, virgil hill, john ruiz, derek harmon, vinny paz, thomas tate, thulani malinga...including bernard that makes 15 fighters that won titles after roy beat them... as opposed to

Bernard: oscar de la hoya, glen johnson, william joppy that's three. two of his title defenses came against two men he'd already beaten soundedly...

Now you tell me during their reigns who fought better competiton roy of bernard?

DISCLAIMER: This is not my attempt to discredit the great career of BHOP, I'm simply making a point not to get overly excited about what bhop has done and what he's actually done. He was great. But by no means is he or was he anywhere near RJJ...the only thing bernard did better than roy was get out of the sport when he should..

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If Roy's opponents should get credit for what they did after they lost to him, which is win titles, then I think Bernard's opponents should maybe also get credit, for knocking Roy the f@#k out ;D Oh but that's right, none of Roy's losses count, because he was old, came down in weight, mentally unprepared from his first KO loss, and just about any other excuse Roy nutthuggers pull out of thin air ;D

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only one Bhop opponent ko'ed roy...glen johnson...roy beat tarver before hop did...and listing who they fought was only to show that many say roy took the easy fights, and praise bernard for this mw record...when many of the fighter he fought were padded set up men that didn't even fight after he beat them...and when comparing one's opponents selection i think fighting a fighter that wins a belt is bit tougher competition than a guy that does nothing for the rest of career but lose...those are the guys that roy fought as opposed to the guys that bhop fought....

and yeah roy's losses count on paper...but if bernard hopkins and joe calzaghe say they believe that tarver and glen johnson would have got beaten by roy four years ago, ...then i could care less what a bernard hopkins supporter says...i guess you count the losses ali suffered at the hands of holmes and berbick too huh?

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Actually Ali had marginal performances a number of times before he lost to holmes and Berbick, so that proves there was evidence of him slowing down, whereas Roy came off a dominant win over Ruiz. But that's right, nothing after that counts, because he had to struggle to make weight. The mere fact that you put Roy's name in the same sentence with Ali in itself is laughable.

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actually roy did beat tarver in the first fight after the ruiz fight..and if you don't accept the weight as an excuse...then surely you noticed that he was no where near the same fighter that was just 8 months before fighting tarver...roy has never been or looked so exhausted during a fight as he did in the first tarver fight..and if that didn't point to him slowing down then what was it?

lemme guess it was tarver's style right? if you think that then you're obviously lying to yourself about roy not being over the hill when he finally lost....

The only people lying to themselves are the naive few who think Roy, let alone any fighter, in his prime had a style that would shut out everyone. Sorry, but that's not the case. You're damn right Tarver's style would give Roy problems no matter when they fought. And like I said before, you'd have a much better argument if Roy would have gotten KO'd in his first fight with Tarver, but he didn't, he won it outright, fair and square. He got KTFO in the rematch. Doesn't bode to well for Roy supporters saying he was 'over the hill.' lol

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Originally Posted by wacko3205

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Originally Posted by MRMANICK

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Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather

listen bhop is great..but lest not forget tarver was obviously hindered by the weight loss..and i seriously doubt the fight would have been so one sided had tarver not gone up to to film the movie...but to be roy no...hop would still get hit coming in trying to lunge and grab...roy by SD this time instead of UD

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Whoa i know your a fan and all but roys chins is GONE. He was afraid to engage Johnson and Tarver and you think he would come in on hop. Lets be real. If you said this a few years ago i would agree but i feel like any one of those right hands that hop landed on tarver would ko jones. Did you see the punch that johnson hit him with? It was weak and it knocked him out cold. What about that right tarver hit him with? That was weak too and he was on queer street. At this point anyone who is not afraid to come in on roy will beat him. I wouldn't be surprised if that prince guy kos him. I love roy but he is done. I wish he would retire before he gets hurt.

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Originally Posted by Mintymen

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Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather

listen bhop is great..but lest not forget tarver was obviously hindered by the weight loss..and i seriously doubt the fight would have been so one sided had tarver not gone up to to film the movie...but to be roy no...hop would still get hit coming in trying to lunge and grab...roy by SD this time instead of UD

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:coolclick: That's what I am thinking about that's why I started this post. The lunge and hold for B-hop, can he catch Roy like that, given that Roy stays so low. But now, we may never know. This match has been boiling for ages shame that it didn't happen. :crowd:

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Are you 2 serious? If johnson can catch him why couldn't hop. You forget hops got a good chin,great defense and revenge on his mind. He would come after roy hard and be willing to take a few to get in knowing roy won't commit on any hard punches out of fear of being koed.Like i said i love roy but its over.

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:coolclick: MRMANICK

Here's the problem I got...Hopkins defeated Tarver & beat him at his game more convincingly than anyone ever has...& people are going to use the weight excuse to detract from it?

Shameful.

Then again...that's why I think that Jones performed so poorly...but if anyone here thinks that Hopkins wouldn't have still won regardless...I gotta laugh.

Hopkins was back to his old game & that's what defeated Tarver...he fought a different fight than the one against Taylor...to say he didn't is ludicrous.

He was the agressor & he threw caution to the wind & he took the fight to Tarver.

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Damn Straight. Even Teddy Atlas is trying to detract from Hopkins win. People, at 41, movin up 2 weight classes, what Hopkins did is magical, legendary. And he was not as hesitant as when he fought Taylor, because Tarver was not nearly as quick of an opponent, more powerful but not as fast. B-hop fought similiar to when he faced Echols the first time. He was a boxer puncher and took the fight to Tarver consistently. Roy has slipped now, and as B-hop stated they will never fight again. They are friends. And both had hall of fame careers.

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Originally Posted by smashcrusher

The only people lying to themselves are the naive few who think Roy, let alone any fighter, in his prime had a style that would shut out everyone. Sorry, but that's not the case. You're damn right Tarver's style would give Roy problems no matter when they fought. And like I said before, you'd have a much better argument if Roy would have gotten KO'd in his first fight with Tarver, but he didn't, he won it outright, fair and square. He got KTFO in the rematch. Doesn't bode to well for Roy supporters saying he was 'over the hill.' lol

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tarver's style wasn't anymore difficult than montell griffen's...tarver was just another lefty who would have gotten torn up by prime roy....everyone in the boxing world knows it...emmauel steward, merchant, hopkins, calzaghe, joe goosen, eric harding (and he fought both roy and tarver), only those that have done nothing but sit and wait for roy lose will not admit that at 36 years old roy was on his way out...actually the fact that roy won the first fight at 70% was great, the second fight was a well timed punch that four years ago roy wouldn't have even been there standing for...

So lemme get this straight....you're saying that roy only dominated boxing for 15 years because he hadn't fought tarver and johnson yet? because if believe that either one of them would have beaten prime roy or even roy before he went up to heavy...then you're lying to yourself and if you don't think the weight did something to roy...you can just look to hop-tarver fight for evidence....(again hop would have won, but not so easily had tarver not done rocky 6)

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Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather

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Originally Posted by smashcrusher

The only people lying to themselves are the naive few who think Roy, let alone any fighter, in his prime had a style that would shut out everyone. Sorry, but that's not the case. You're damn right Tarver's style would give Roy problems no matter when they fought. And like I said before, you'd have a much better argument if Roy would have gotten KO'd in his first fight with Tarver, but he didn't, he won it outright, fair and square. He got KTFO in the rematch. Doesn't bode to well for Roy supporters saying he was 'over the hill.' lol

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tarver's style wasn't anymore difficult than montell griffen's...tarver was just another lefty who would have gotten torn up by prime roy....everyone in the boxing world knows it...emmauel steward, merchant, hopkins, calzaghe, joe goosen, eric harding (and he fought both roy and tarver), only those that have done nothing but sit and wait for roy lose will not admit that at 36 years old roy was on his way out...actually the fact that roy won the first fight at 70% was great, the second fight was a well timed punch that four years ago roy wouldn't have even been there standing for...

So lemme get this straight....you're saying that roy only dominated boxing for 15 years because he hadn't fought tarver and johnson yet? because if believe that either one of them would have beaten prime roy or even roy before he went up to heavy...then you're lying to yourself and if you don't think the weight did something to roy...you can just look to hop-tarver fight for evidence....(again hop would have won, but not so easily had tarver not done rocky 6)

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You know why roy was so tired in the first tarver fight? Cause he was getting hit with hard left hands thats why. Would it had been different a few years ago? Maybe but thats just speculation.Did the weight have something to do with it? Maybe but the weight didn't have anything to do with the second fight.Like i said losing weight don't make you move the wrong way against southpaws and thats what he did and that why he got knocked out.So to say it couldn't happen before is ridiculous cause he has always been moving the wrong way and lets not forget the first man to drop roy was a southpaw and he did it with a straight left which made roys legs give out.How did it happen? He was moving the wrong way. So i imagine if it was tarver in there who is a much better fight than de valle was.

The truth is roy was looked at as the best thing since slice bread after the ruiz fight.What i don't get is how a man can go from unbeatable to past his prime in 1 fight.That doesn't make any sense to me.But the truth is roy could have lost a step years ago but we would never know cause he made sure he picked fighters that played to his strengths.Like i said earlier roy has been smoke and mirrors since 95.But i don't want you to take this as disrespect to roy cause i think he was a great fighter but i always questioned his opposition but i didn't really care cause it was fun to watch roy. He had a mesmerizing style that people wanted to see no matter how good or bad the opponent was.

People like to say roy looked different in that first fight and when you look at it as a whole he did. But in the first rounds he looked like roy until he started getting hit.

man watch the first fight again...did you see the headbutt that tarver caught him with in the first round that wobbled roy? Have you ever heard of a figher "getting old overnight" that term didn't just come out of the sky...and about the left hand in the second fight...roy wasn't actually moving they both were throwing and tarver's got there first because he turned over shorter...now four years ago tarver would have got hit and roy would have been gone...but the roy that fought tarver wasn't using his legs at all...even against glen johnson roy was trying to fight off the ropes...he did it earlier but not that often and only after he had worn his opponent down...and to question roy's opponent selection and bernard's is ridiculous..because i've already proven who fought better comp....i think people should question who he could have fought as opposed to who he did...and are the other fighters that didn't fight him questioned just the same? No....

Here's a great quote by another dominate athlete....

"If your game is that strong! Something has to be wrong" - Deion Sanders

roy ain't fight this guy or that guy...roy was 36 when he finally lost, but he wasn't old he just got beat...roy ain't fight nobody, even though 15 of his opponents went on to become champions or were already champs when he beat them....roy take steroids all that crap...roy fought for 16 years, before he finally got hit...what? he fought for 16 years before actually getting his chin checked? How good do you have to be in order to pull that off? ROY JONES GOOD that's how good you have to be....

must be something wrong, because he just can't be that damn good...when actually he was.....

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Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather

man watch the first fight again...did you see the headbutt that tarver caught him with in the first round that wobbled roy? Have you ever heard of a figher "getting old overnight" that term didn't just come out of the sky...and about the left hand in the second fight...roy wasn't actually moving they both were throwing and tarver's got there first because he turned over shorter...now four years ago tarver would have got hit and roy would have been gone...but the roy that fought tarver wasn't using his legs at all...even against glen johnson roy was trying to fight off the ropes...he did it earlier but not that often and only after he had worn his opponent down...and to question roy's opponent selection and bernard's is ridiculous..because i've already proven who fought better comp....i think people should question who he could have fought as opposed to who he did...and are the other fighters that didn't fight him questioned just the same? No....

Here's a great quote by another dominate athlete....

"If your game is that strong! Something has to be wrong" - Deion Sanders

roy ain't fight this guy or that guy...roy was 36 when he finally lost, but he wasn't old he just got beat...roy ain't fight nobody, even though 15 of his opponents went on to become champions or were already champs when he beat them....roy take steroids all that crap...roy fought for 16 years, before he finally got hit...what? he fought for 16 years before actually getting his chin checked? How good do you have to be in order to pull that off? ROY JONES GOOD that's how good you have to be....

must be something wrong, because he just can't be that damn good...when actually he was.....

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You know what your right. Roy jones is the god of boxing and in his prime no one could beat him. I mean thats what you wanna hear. Whats crazy is you can't see that i'm not trying to descredit roy but i'm also not gonna act like he was the best ever.So u can keep your opinions and i'll kept mine cause at the end of the day neither roy or bernard give a damn about us but u feel u have to defend him as if he would do the same for u.Roy probably at home in the pool with 5 strippers that he got with yours and my money while we living modest talking about him. I'm done.

i'm sorry you're living modest...i don't have boxer money..but high 6 figs we do me just fine for now..

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Originally Posted by MRMANICK

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Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather

man watch the first fight again...did you see the headbutt that tarver caught him with in the first round that wobbled roy? Have you ever heard of a figher "getting old overnight" that term didn't just come out of the sky...and about the left hand in the second fight...roy wasn't actually moving they both were throwing and tarver's got there first because he turned over shorter...now four years ago tarver would have got hit and roy would have been gone...but the roy that fought tarver wasn't using his legs at all...even against glen johnson roy was trying to fight off the ropes...he did it earlier but not that often and only after he had worn his opponent down...and to question roy's opponent selection and bernard's is ridiculous..because i've already proven who fought better comp....i think people should question who he could have fought as opposed to who he did...and are the other fighters that didn't fight him questioned just the same? No....

Here's a great quote by another dominate athlete....

"If your game is that strong! Something has to be wrong" - Deion Sanders

roy ain't fight this guy or that guy...roy was 36 when he finally lost, but he wasn't old he just got beat...roy ain't fight nobody, even though 15 of his opponents went on to become champions or were already champs when he beat them....roy take steroids all that crap...roy fought for 16 years, before he finally got hit...what? he fought for 16 years before actually getting his chin checked? How good do you have to be in order to pull that off? ROY JONES GOOD that's how good you have to be....

must be something wrong, because he just can't be that damn good...when actually he was.....

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You know what your right. Roy jones is the god of boxing and in his prime no one could beat him. I mean thats what you wanna hear. Whats crazy is you can't see that i'm not trying to descredit roy but i'm also not gonna act like he was the best ever.So u can keep your opinions and i'll kept mine cause at the end of the day neither roy or bernard give a damn about us but u feel u have to defend him as if he would do the same for u.Roy probably at home in the pool with 5 strippers that he got with yours and my money while we living modest talking about him. I'm done.

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See that is where you are wrong, Roy Jones Junior was the best ever. Best I've ever seen at least. 8)

You Jones fans will never let go. ;)