Re: Who Thinks Meldrick Taylor Was Screwed
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Originally Posted by Lords Gym
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Originally Posted by bigragu
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Originally Posted by The_One77
lol, whoever thinks Chavez would of knocked out Meldrick in 2 seconds when he was all away across the ring is being not realistic...
Taylor was not dazed, he was still seeing clearly and could of easily survived by by standing up...He was robbed. Steele did a terrible job on that fight, because Taylor would of won a UD if it was any other refferee.
(EDIT)
it's amazing just how blind Taylor fans become when it comes to this....When Richard Steele walked over to Taylor after the Knockdown you will notice Taylor's hand still holding onto the rope and he was still out on his feat and unresponsive....You can only be saved by the bell in 12th and final round...not with time left.....it was a good stoppage....
Well I think everyone’s initial response to that stoppage was outrage, but then as you watch it again and take everything into consideration you realize that Steele was doing what he thought was right at the Time. Taylor was in real troubles. I remember someone in an earlier post talking about Duva ‘s role in this situation,, and I tended to agree with that assessment also .
my initial response was outrage
then i saw it again and was even more pissed
taylor could have gone on, and YES, IT IS a referees responsibility to know approximately how much time is left before he calls the fight (the difference between 3 minutes and 5 seconds shouldnt be too hard to figure out)
Re: Who Thinks Meldrick Taylor Was Screwed
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Originally Posted by Lords Gym
I disagree he showed no signs of not being able to continue ,he didnt stumble to get up...He was obviously able to here is corner yelling at him from across the ring with thousands of people yelling screaming and clapping...SO COHERRENTNESS was not an issue it was a poor stoppage
The Ref is right there and can see things that the viewers at home don't see. The eyes for one. The eyes don't lie. You can look right into a fighters eyes and know where he is at.
[/quote]
I will have to agree to disagree with you guys.I am at the end of the debate.IN MY OPINION it was one of the biggest travesties in boxing history,I was neither a fan of Meldrick or Chavez I saw the fight live on TV and I remember how heartbreaking it was and still it is...I am just passionate about this subject...It was a Fuking shame either way....Julio in my mind got the biggest gift in Boxing history!!!
Re: Who Thinks Meldrick Taylor Was Screwed
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Originally Posted by frozensolid_702
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Originally Posted by Lords Gym
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Originally Posted by bigragu
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Originally Posted by The_One77
lol, whoever thinks Chavez would of knocked out Meldrick in 2 seconds when he was all away across the ring is being not realistic...
Taylor was not dazed, he was still seeing clearly and could of easily survived by by standing up...He was robbed. Steele did a terrible job on that fight, because Taylor would of won a UD if it was any other refferee.
(EDIT)
it's amazing just how blind Taylor fans become when it comes to this....When Richard Steele walked over to Taylor after the Knockdown you will notice Taylor's hand still holding onto the rope and he was still out on his feat and unresponsive....You can only be saved by the bell in 12th and final round...not with time left.....it was a good stoppage....
Well I think everyone’s initial response to that stoppage was outrage, but then as you watch it again and take everything into consideration you realize that Steele was doing what he thought was right at the Time. Taylor was in real troubles. I remember someone in an earlier post talking about Duva ‘s role in this situation,, and I tended to agree with that assessment also .
and YES, IT IS a referees responsibility to know approximately how much time is left before he calls the fight (the difference between 3 minutes and 5 seconds shouldnt be too hard to figure out)
NO IT ISN'T and that is why refs dont have a watch, coz it could cause coruption - which is what it would have been if that fight had've continued on the basis of time
If you are objective you have to see that the time is of no relevance, time is just numbers, until the bell rings those numbers dont and shouldn't be relevant
Why dont we just just say that a fighter who is well behind cannot win the fight towards the end of the fight coz of what has gone before hand. The round is 3 minutes long not 2 mins 58 seconds - bet ya wouldn't have a problem with a stppage in the 1st 2 seconds instead of the last
Re: Who Thinks Meldrick Taylor Was Screwed
The ref is not the timekeeper, his sole purpose, is the safety of the fighter.
Meldrick Taylor had a broken eye orbital, had swallowed up to a pint of his own blood, because of an internal injury; if Steele was guilty of anything, he was guilty of stopping the fight too late.
Steele done his job well; Duva should of pulled Taylor out of there a lot earlier, with hindsight, IMO.
Re: Who Thinks Meldrick Taylor Was Screwed
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Originally Posted by Britkid
The ref is not the timekeeper, his sole purpose, is the safety of the fighter.
Meldrick Taylor had a broken eye orbital, had swallowed up to a pint of his own blood, because of an internal injury; if Steele was guilty of anything, he was guilty of stopping the fight too late.
Steele done his job well; Duva should of pulled Taylor out of there a lot earlier, with hindsight, IMO.
CC
Re: Who Thinks Meldrick Taylor Was Screwed
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Originally Posted by BIG H
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Originally Posted by Britkid
The ref is not the timekeeper, his sole purpose, is the safety of the fighter.
Meldrick Taylor had a broken eye orbital, had swallowed up to a pint of his own blood, because of an internal injury; if Steele was guilty of anything, he was guilty of stopping the fight too late.
Steele done his job well; Duva should of pulled Taylor out of there a lot earlier, with hindsight, IMO.
CC
Wow, this guy up top saw the HBO special on Taylor and Chavez and is quoting the injuries. But since you want to quote HBO here is one for you "If Meldric Taylor would have continued he would have won a split decision" hahahaha. This is a man who thouroughly outboxed and outclassed his opponent for the first 10 rounds and he only would have won a split decision, that should raise eyebrow's right there, obviously not yours you are just focused on the injuries. All this despite harsh word's from other refs in the sport such as Joe Cortez, Mills Lane, but you are not worried about that though. It's not a referee's job to worry about the time? Insanity. 3 months of training for the biggest fight of your life, you get into the ring and perform brilliantly and it's all taken away from you, and then you have critics that say the fight was correctly stopped? Obviously those critics don't know what dedication is. Broken eye socket? What boxing have you been watching in the last 16 years. So many fighters have went on fighting with broken jaws such as Tarver, or broken eye sockets such as the kid who just fought Cotto, or what about broken hands such RJJ and Mayweather, concussions such as Mosley against Forrest, brutal cuts such as Tyson or internal injuries such as Holyfield. (All of them kept fighting). Premature stoppage, I have seen fighters beat half to death and the ref let's them continue such as (Trinidad Vs Vargas) after the second KD in the twelth Vargas got up drooling, wobbley, and dazed and was still in condition to fight. What about (Mayweather Vs Corrales). The ref could have stopped the fight after the second KD after the brutal beating he was taking but he let the fight go on, (Mosley Vs Forrest 1) Forrest hit Mosley with a tremendous body shot that made Mosley scream but knowing that Mosley is a warrior the ref let it go even though he wanted to stop it. Chavez knocked Taylor down once! Taylor was not wobbled or out on his feet, he didn't even take the whole standing 8 count, he was distracted by Duva and Steele knows that he heard Duva scream to Taylor 3 feet away. It was a robbery and whoever thinks that it wasen't has no form of empathy at all. Chavez went on to have other robberies such as Whitaker and Randall. Don King is the man.
One more thing, all fighter swallow blood, at least if they have cut's in their mouth, you do the percentage on that.
Re: Who Thinks Meldrick Taylor Was Screwed
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Originally Posted by gbrandon
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Originally Posted by BIG H
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Originally Posted by Britkid
The ref is not the timekeeper, his sole purpose, is the safety of the fighter.
Meldrick Taylor had a broken eye orbital, had swallowed up to a pint of his own blood, because of an internal injury; if Steele was guilty of anything, he was guilty of stopping the fight too late.
Steele done his job well; Duva should of pulled Taylor out of there a lot earlier, with hindsight, IMO.
CC
Wow, this guy up top saw the HBO special on Taylor and Chavez and is quoting the injuries. But since you want to quote HBO here is one for you "If Meldric Taylor would have continued he would have won a split decision" hahahaha. This is a man who thouroughly outboxed and outclassed his opponent for the first 10 rounds and he only would have won a split decision, that should raise eyebrow's right there, obviously not yours you are just focused on the injuries. All this despite harsh word's from other refs in the sport such as Joe Cortez, Mills Lane, but you are not worried about that though. It's not a referee's job to worry about the time? Insanity. 3 months of training for the biggest fight of your life, you get into the ring and perform brilliantly and it's all taken away from you, and then you have critics that say the fight was correctly stopped? Obviously those critics don't know what dedication is. Broken eye socket? What boxing have you been watching in the last 16 years. So many fighters have went on fighting with broken jaws such as Tarver, or broken eye sockets such as the kid who just fought Cotto, or what about broken hands such RJJ and Mayweather, concussions such as Mosley against Forrest, brutal cuts such as Tyson or internal injuries such as Holyfield. (All of them kept fighting). Premature stoppage, I have seen fighters beat half to death and the ref let's them continue such as (Trinidad Vs Vargas) after the second KD in the twelth Vargas got up drooling, wobbley, and dazed and was still in condition to fight. What about (Mayweather Vs Corrales). The ref could have stopped the fight after the second KD after the brutal beating he was taking but he let the fight go on, (Mosley Vs Forrest 1) Forrest hit Mosley with a tremendous body shot that made Mosley scream but knowing that Mosley is a warrior the ref let it go even though he wanted to stop it. Chavez knocked Taylor down once! Taylor was not wobbled or out on his feet, he didn't even take the whole standing 8 count, he was distracted by Duva and Steele knows that he heard Duva scream to Taylor 3 feet away. It was a robbery and whoever thinks that it wasen't has no form of empathy at all. Chavez went on to have other robberies such as Whitaker and Randall. Don King is the man.
One more thing, all fighter swallow blood, at least if they have cut's in their mouth, you do the percentage on that.
Yeh but at the end of the day the time is still of no relevance whatseover - and if you wanna talk about 3 months of training, wot about JCC, he trained just as hard, but you think he should've been denied a win because of what the clock says. The fight was not stopped coz of the time it was stopped coz he didn't respond when questioned by the ref End of!!
Re: Who Thinks Meldrick Taylor Was Screwed
Quote:
Originally Posted by gbrandon
Wow, this guy up top saw the HBO special on Taylor and Chavez and is quoting the injuries. But since you want to quote HBO here is one for you "If Meldric Taylor would have continued he would have won a split decision" hahahaha. This is a man who thouroughly outboxed and outclassed his opponent for the first 10 rounds and he only would have won a split decision, that should raise eyebrow's right there, obviously not yours you are just focused on the injuries. All this despite harsh word's from other refs in the sport such as Joe Cortez, Mills Lane, but you are not worried about that though. It's not a referee's job to worry about the time? Insanity. 3 months of training for the biggest fight of your life, you get into the ring and perform brilliantly and it's all taken away from you, and then you have critics that say the fight was correctly stopped? Obviously those critics don't know what dedication is. Broken eye socket? What boxing have you been watching in the last 16 years. So many fighters have went on fighting with broken jaws such as Tarver, or broken eye sockets such as the kid who just fought Cotto, or what about broken hands such RJJ and Mayweather, concussions such as Mosley against Forrest, brutal cuts such as Tyson or internal injuries such as Holyfield. (All of them kept fighting). Premature stoppage, I have seen fighters beat half to death and the ref let's them continue such as (Trinidad Vs Vargas) after the second KD in the twelth Vargas got up drooling, wobbley, and dazed and was still in condition to fight. What about (Mayweather Vs Corrales). The ref could have stopped the fight after the second KD after the brutal beating he was taking but he let the fight go on, (Mosley Vs Forrest 1) Forrest hit Mosley with a tremendous body shot that made Mosley scream but knowing that Mosley is a warrior the ref let it go even though he wanted to stop it. Chavez knocked Taylor down once! Taylor was not wobbled or out on his feet, he didn't even take the whole standing 8 count, he was distracted by Duva and Steele knows that he heard Duva scream to Taylor 3 feet away. It was a robbery and whoever thinks that it wasen't has no form of empathy at all. Chavez went on to have other robberies such as Whitaker and Randall. Don King is the man.
One more thing, all fighter swallow blood, at least if they have cut's in their mouth, you do the percentage on that.
I am British I do not get HBO...
I am just using memory ;)
And the fight was getting closer and closer as it went on, as Taylor was very badly hurt. So I can understand how a judge had Chavez a point up...
I put a lot of money (for me, at 15) on Taylor, everyone with a bit of inside knowledge, knew this would be a devil of a fight for Chavez, and it was, but you cannot be bitter IMO. After 35 minutes and 58 seconds of two fighters giving it their all, at (Taylor) or near (Chavez) their prime.
Re: Who Thinks Meldrick Taylor Was Screwed
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Originally Posted by Britkid
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Originally Posted by gbrandon
Wow, this guy up top saw the HBO special on Taylor and Chavez and is quoting the injuries. But since you want to quote HBO here is one for you "If Meldric Taylor would have continued he would have won a split decision" hahahaha. This is a man who thouroughly outboxed and outclassed his opponent for the first 10 rounds and he only would have won a split decision, that should raise eyebrow's right there, obviously not yours you are just focused on the injuries. All this despite harsh word's from other refs in the sport such as Joe Cortez, Mills Lane, but you are not worried about that though. It's not a referee's job to worry about the time? Insanity. 3 months of training for the biggest fight of your life, you get into the ring and perform brilliantly and it's all taken away from you, and then you have critics that say the fight was correctly stopped? Obviously those critics don't know what dedication is. Broken eye socket? What boxing have you been watching in the last 16 years. So many fighters have went on fighting with broken jaws such as Tarver, or broken eye sockets such as the kid who just fought Cotto, or what about broken hands such RJJ and Mayweather, concussions such as Mosley against Forrest, brutal cuts such as Tyson or internal injuries such as Holyfield. (All of them kept fighting). Premature stoppage, I have seen fighters beat half to death and the ref let's them continue such as (Trinidad Vs Vargas) after the second KD in the twelth Vargas got up drooling, wobbley, and dazed and was still in condition to fight. What about (Mayweather Vs Corrales). The ref could have stopped the fight after the second KD after the brutal beating he was taking but he let the fight go on, (Mosley Vs Forrest 1) Forrest hit Mosley with a tremendous body shot that made Mosley scream but knowing that Mosley is a warrior the ref let it go even though he wanted to stop it. Chavez knocked Taylor down once! Taylor was not wobbled or out on his feet, he didn't even take the whole standing 8 count, he was distracted by Duva and Steele knows that he heard Duva scream to Taylor 3 feet away. It was a robbery and whoever thinks that it wasen't has no form of empathy at all. Chavez went on to have other robberies such as Whitaker and Randall. Don King is the man.
One more thing, all fighter swallow blood, at least if they have cut's in their mouth, you do the percentage on that.
I am British I do not get HBO...
I am just using memory ;)
And the fight was getting closer and closer as it went on, as Taylor was very badly hurt. So I can understand how a judge had Chavez a point up...
I put a lot of money (for me, at 15) on Taylor, everyone with a bit of inside knowledge, knew this would be a devil of a fight for Chavez, and it was, but you cannot be bitter IMO. After 35 minutes and 58 seconds of two fighters giving it their all, at (Taylor) or near (Chavez) their prime.
right i know this is very old topic but was searching on google see this so i had quick look and i wana have my say first theres is red light on taylors corner the red light shows 10 seconds left no way could chavez had been point up taylor outlanded by this much
Taylor landed 418 out of 1,060, Chavez landed 235 out of 634. chavez would not of made it across plus ref should of made sure chavez was in neutral corner all refs do after fighter was knocked down i have seen taylors injurys and i for one think they should of let this brave warrior have his dues not for giving taylor a favour but because he won by 10 rounds to 2 outboxed chavez easily and unless chavez is carl lewis no way he could of got across the ring the ref should of seen taylor looked at his corner and asked him 3rd time by which then fight would of been over poor meldrick got robbed of his victory and im not taylor fan i respect his skills
Re: Who Thinks Meldrick Taylor Was Screwed
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
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Originally Posted by Britkid
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Originally Posted by gbrandon
Wow, this guy up top saw the HBO special on Taylor and Chavez and is quoting the injuries. But since you want to quote HBO here is one for you "If Meldric Taylor would have continued he would have won a split decision" hahahaha. This is a man who thouroughly outboxed and outclassed his opponent for the first 10 rounds and he only would have won a split decision, that should raise eyebrow's right there, obviously not yours you are just focused on the injuries. All this despite harsh word's from other refs in the sport such as Joe Cortez, Mills Lane, but you are not worried about that though. It's not a referee's job to worry about the time? Insanity. 3 months of training for the biggest fight of your life, you get into the ring and perform brilliantly and it's all taken away from you, and then you have critics that say the fight was correctly stopped? Obviously those critics don't know what dedication is. Broken eye socket? What boxing have you been watching in the last 16 years. So many fighters have went on fighting with broken jaws such as Tarver, or broken eye sockets such as the kid who just fought Cotto, or what about broken hands such RJJ and Mayweather, concussions such as Mosley against Forrest, brutal cuts such as Tyson or internal injuries such as Holyfield. (All of them kept fighting). Premature stoppage, I have seen fighters beat half to death and the ref let's them continue such as (Trinidad Vs Vargas) after the second KD in the twelth Vargas got up drooling, wobbley, and dazed and was still in condition to fight. What about (Mayweather Vs Corrales). The ref could have stopped the fight after the second KD after the brutal beating he was taking but he let the fight go on, (Mosley Vs Forrest 1) Forrest hit Mosley with a tremendous body shot that made Mosley scream but knowing that Mosley is a warrior the ref let it go even though he wanted to stop it. Chavez knocked Taylor down once! Taylor was not wobbled or out on his feet, he didn't even take the whole standing 8 count, he was distracted by Duva and Steele knows that he heard Duva scream to Taylor 3 feet away. It was a robbery and whoever thinks that it wasen't has no form of empathy at all. Chavez went on to have other robberies such as Whitaker and Randall. Don King is the man.
One more thing, all fighter swallow blood, at least if they have cut's in their mouth, you do the percentage on that.
I am British I do not get HBO...
I am just using memory ;)
And the fight was getting closer and closer as it went on, as Taylor was very badly hurt. So I can understand how a judge had Chavez a point up...
I put a lot of money (for me, at 15) on Taylor, everyone with a bit of inside knowledge, knew this would be a devil of a fight for Chavez, and it was, but you cannot be bitter IMO. After 35 minutes and 58 seconds of two fighters giving it their all, at (Taylor) or near (Chavez) their prime.
right i know this is very old topic but was searching on google see this so i had quick look and i wana have my say first theres is red light on taylors corner the red light shows 10 seconds left no way could chavez had been point up taylor outlanded by this much
Taylor landed 418 out of 1,060, Chavez landed 235 out of 634. chavez would not of made it across plus ref should of made sure chavez was in neutral corner all refs do after fighter was knocked down i have seen taylors injurys and i for one think they should of let this brave warrior have his dues not for giving taylor a favour but because he won by 10 rounds to 2 outboxed chavez easily and unless chavez is carl lewis no way he could of got across the ring the ref should of seen taylor looked at his corner and asked him 3rd time by which then fight would of been over poor meldrick got robbed of his victory and im not taylor fan i respect his skills
I definetly agree with you....CC and that was argument through the whole topic..
Re: Who Thinks Meldrick Taylor Was Screwed
No I don't think Meldrick Taylor was screwed. I think that Steele was trying to save him punishment. Steele is payiong 100 percent attention to Taylor to make sure he's ok, he's not gonna look up at the ring light to see if its blinking. A ref's job is that if a fighter is unfit to continue to stop the fight. A ref's first priority in the ring is to ensure a fighter's safety and Steele was doing it out of compassion in seeing that a man had taken enough punishment for the night. Anyone that thinks its a screw job need to ask yourself one question "Did Steele know that there was 10 seconds left?" I don't think he could have noticed because he is watching the action and is watchign Taylor get stunned and knocked down, and standing over him looking in his eyes to see if he's all there. A professional ref like Steele isn't going to glance away from a fighter thats just been knocked down to see if the ring light is flashing. You tell me one ref that should do that when they have a hurt fighter in front of them?
Actually inside the rules Steele could have DQ'd Taylor for Duva jumping up on the ring apron before the fight was over.
But thats not what I'm trying to say. What I'm trying to say is, no I do not think Taylor was screweed. I think Steel did exactly what a ref should do, stop a fight when he sees a fighter has taken enough damage. Thats my opinion of it.
Re: Who Thinks Meldrick Taylor Was Screwed
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Originally Posted by Majesty
No I don't think Meldrick Taylor was screwed. I think that Steele was trying to save him punishment. Steele is payiong 100 percent attention to Taylor to make sure he's ok, he's not gonna look up at the ring light to see if its blinking. A ref's job is that if a fighter is unfit to continue to stop the fight. A ref's first priority in the ring is to ensure a fighter's safety and Steele was doing it out of compassion in seeing that a man had taken enough punishment for the night. Anyone that thinks its a screw job need to ask yourself one question "Did Steele know that there was 10 seconds left?" I don't think he could have noticed because he is watching the action and is watchign Taylor get stunned and knocked down, and standing over him looking in his eyes to see if he's all there. A professional ref like Steele isn't going to glance away from a fighter thats just been knocked down to see if the ring light is flashing. You tell me one ref that should do that when they have a hurt fighter in front of them?
Actually inside the rules Steele could have DQ'd Taylor for Duva jumping up on the ring apron before the fight was over.
But thats not what I'm trying to say. What I'm trying to say is, no I do not think Taylor was screweed. I think Steel did exactly what a ref should do, stop a fight when he sees a fighter has taken enough damage. Thats my opinion of it.
Thats my view also ! Cool Click #150 O0
Re: Who Thinks Meldrick Taylor Was Screwed
I think it was a horrible stoppage. I have seen many fighters look much more dazed than that and get the chance to go on. He was up at 5 and if Steele would have asked him to come forward, wiped off his gloves, made sure JCC was in a neutral corner, the fight would have been over. He definitely waved it off way too fast. Many many fighters, have gotten a few extra seconds by the ref talking to them. I feel Steele was aware of the time, and that is why he waved it off so fast. It was a very quick stoppage on the ref's part. I also think Duva caused both the stoppage, and his fighter to take a severe beating. Worst corner advice ever. It was borderline criminal for Duva to tell him he needed to win that last round.
Re: Who Thinks Meldrick Taylor Was Screwed
Re: Who Thinks Meldrick Taylor Was Screwed
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lords Gym
I disagree he showed no signs of not being able to continue ,he didnt stumble to get up...He was obviously able to here is corner yelling at him from across the ring with thousands of people yelling screaming and clapping...SO COHERRENTNESS was not an issue it was a poor stoppage
The Ref is right there and can see things that the viewers at home don't see. The eyes for one. The eyes don't lie. You can look right into a fighters eyes and know where he is at.
[/quote]
Ok when ref Steel was asked if he regrets stoppin the fight he told reportes and boxin fans. That there was not a ounce of regret in his mind for stoppin the fight. He said he wasn't gonna take the chance of risking and ruining a mans life no matter how high or what the stakes were, Steel said no fight is worth losing a mans life for.
In my opinion He did the right thing stopping the fight cause steel himself said Taylor had recieved 2 much punishment in the previous rounds and when JC knocked him down in the 12th and ref steel gave him the mandatory 8 count he looked into Taylor's eyes which were dialated and he asked him if he was ok and wanted to continiue and Taylor didn't respond Ref stopped the fight. Good call Imo ::**
