Re: Should Hopkins have moved up to Light Heavy a few years ago?
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Originally Posted by wacko3205
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Originally Posted by Majesty
Allen was a safe bet but how about Hopkins Echols 3?
There wasn't one.
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Originally Posted by ender
But what did those men accomplish at Lt Heavy and Middle other than lose to Hop and other champs they faced ?
They were either on their way up or they were top men until Hopkins got them.
Kind of like what you said about Joppy...losing his credibility after getting beaten by Tito.
I don't follow the lines like that because they curve to suit a bit too much.
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Originally Posted by ender
Look, I don't want to get into a debate about Hops opposition. There were tough guys there and I agree most just weren't following the division BUT , after Tito , he should have secured his defense status like he did ( though Carl Daniels was a dubiosu choice IMO . Funny hopw the fans jumped all over Taylor for wantiung a hometown defense instead of Winky but Hop gets to have Daniels no questions asked ) .
The debate of Hopkins opp is always subject to opinion...but he still beat those men & he still did something that no one else has or probably will in the nest 10-15 years.
The thing is...you say that you don't want to debate about his opp...but you do...throwing in Carl Daniels...but you push out the fact of beating Tito & Oscar below.
That's trying to discredit his oppostion.
Nothing wrong with Taylor wanting a hometown defense...I have no problem with that as I kind of believed in Taylor before seeing him fight actual opposition...but we really shouldn't go into to Taylor's opposition before Bernard...you'd see more than 2 men on the way up with Taylor in 24 fights wouldn't you?
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Originally Posted by ender
Tito and Oscar started at 140 and 130 resepctively . They were threats in hype only . Tito moreso but it was evident in teh ring that his power alone would not work against the bigger , natural middle /lt hvy Hopkins .
Oscar & Tito were more than just hype but if you measure Hopkins career only by those two...no offense...but I have to lump you into the group of people that didn't follow the 160lb division that Hopkins fought...again...no offense.
Tito broke down on power against Hopkins...but he faltered just like he did against Oscar & Wright...fighters that had a game plan & a good defensive craft.
I didn't throw in Carl Daniels, Hop did . There is no debate where he is concerned. He was not a that worthy of an opponent. Just like Morrade Hakkar and Robert Allen .
Just because I call Oscar and Tito hype doesn't mean I didn't follow the middleweights during that time. The middles and welters have always been my favorite divisions. I was the only guy in circle of friends who thought Tito was in trouble leading itno the Hop fight.
What I mean by hype is that Tito was and is a natural welter / jr. middle. He is not a middleweight . Not the way Hop is IMO . Sure he detroyed Joppy but 1) Joppy stood in front of him with his hands down like and idiot and 2) the ring favored Tito . It was a brand new puncher's surface . Spongy and hard to move on which was Joppy's plan . What are his other wins there ? Mayorga ? IMO it is a good win since they both came from the lower weight classes . It was good scrap any way you slice it. But Cherifi ? Dude was old and past it . And then Wright where Tito looked terrible and fought worse .
Now Oscar at middleweight looked terrible as well. He didn't even win his tuneup . There was no one to be fpound with any sense that felt Oscar had a chance against BHOP . It was competitive for as long as BHOP wanted it to be . Simple as that . But to say that those are two fighters in danger of beating Hop , maybe Tito , but not really .
What fighter doesn't have trouble against good defensive fighters with multiple gameplans and good jabs ? It's a big knock on Tito but Oscar shares that history as well . Mosley doesn't do well against jabs , either or bigger fighters . Why is it that Tioto gets knocked but those guys don't ? That has always been strange to me. At least Tito went otu with a fight against Hop. Oscar is still trying to convince people it was a liver shot and he didn't take a dive .
Incidentally , on the DL , a source fo mine told me they saw Mayo faded as hell the night before the Oscar fight . Til at least 1 AM . Nice .
