Re: Who's Number 1? ESPN Counts Down the 20 Greatest Boxers of All Time
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
I may sound stupid asking this but it's how I'll learn,what is the difference between greatest and best??Best as in your personal best and greatest as greatest for achievements/all time? CC's for the lists,I have not seen enough old fights to make 1 yet,but I know all the fighters you guys names so my knowlege is getting better!
Actually it is a good question....I always consider the best a temporary thing,,,,one guy can be the best today EG Floyd Mayweather still undefeated...but a fight later a different guy could be because he one upped him...EG Pacquio beats Morales twice but all time greatest is a bit more thought into....I go by achievements over their whole career...do the top moments outweigh the bad...How have their accomplishmets as a whole add up not just a single part of their careers....EG Ali loses to Berbick...in a current situation that would drop him down in the P4P ranks because he lost to a low quality fighter but over his career...he beat guys like Liston, Frazier, Foreman, Folley, Patterson....Hope that helps a little
Re: Who's Number 1? ESPN Counts Down the 20 Greatest Boxers of All Time
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaxxKahn
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
I may sound stupid asking this but it's how I'll learn,what is the difference between greatest and best??Best as in your personal best and greatest as greatest for achievements/all time? CC's for the lists,I have not seen enough old fights to make 1 yet,but I know all the fighters you guys names so my knowlege is getting better!
Actually it is a good question....I always consider the best a temporary thing,,,,one guy can be the best today EG Floyd Mayweather still undefeated...but a fight later a different guy could be because he one upped him...EG Pacquio beats Morales twice but all time greatest is a bit more thought into....I go by achievements over their whole career...do the top moments outweigh the bad...How have their accomplishmets as a whole add up not just a single part of their careers....EG Ali loses to Berbick...in a current situation that would drop him down in the P4P ranks because he lost to a low quality fighter but over his career...he beat guys like Liston, Frazier, Foreman, Folley, Patterson....
Hope that helps a little
El Gamo...there's never a stupid question when you learn an answer.
Good assestment Daxx my man...but you made one fatal error & I highlighted it for you.
You must keep up with the Saddo tradition. You have to post it like this : Hope this helps.
It conveys the sarcasm of the veteran posters of yesteryear & also conveys a little bit of compasion by saying that you sincerly hope you helped...actually...it's more about the sarcasm. ;D
So...I hope that helped. Heh heh heh. ;)
Re: Who's Number 1? ESPN Counts Down the 20 Greatest Boxers of All Time
Well here is my list...Except for the first 3 the rest is in no particular order....
My official top 3
Ray Robinson
Muhammad Ali
Willie Pep
Jack Johnson
Henry Armstrong
Sandy Saddler
Tommy Hearns
Roberto Duran
Ray Leonard
Joe Louis
Archie Moore
Benny Leonard
Kid Chocolate
Roy Jones
Alexis Arguello
Sal Sanchez
Bernard Hopkins
Lou Ambers
Julio Cesar Chavez
Marvin Hagler
A good arguement can also be made for
Shane Mosley,,Oscar De la Hoya, , Sam McVey, Sam Langford, Carlos Monzone and a slew of others but I went with the first that came to mind
Re: Who's Number 1? ESPN Counts Down the 20 Greatest Boxers of All Time
Now that is a quality list Daxx. Can agree with it on a lot of points. Cc.
Re: Who's Number 1? ESPN Counts Down the 20 Greatest Boxers of All Time
not in any order because hate putting them in order because its so hard and i hate putting one boxer above another :( anyway here is my 20 not in any order
muhammad ali
sugar ray robinson
henry armstrong
willie pep
salvador sanchez
roy jones
joe louis
julio cesar chavez
roberto duran
alexis arguello
carloz monzon
marvin hagler
sugar ray leonard
larry holmes
archie moore
jimmy wilde
ricardo lopez
thomas hearns
oscar delahoya
khaosai galaxy
ones that i think will be top 20 one day
winky wright
manny pac
floyd mayweather
jermain taylor
joe calzaghe if he gets right fights
i tried my best struggled at the end because my boxing knowledge isnt as good as some of you guys
Re: Who's Number 1? ESPN Counts Down the 20 Greatest Boxers of All Time
I'm surprised Roy Jones isnt higher on peoples lists . That guy was simply sensational in his prime . Alot better than some people that are ranked above him .
Re: Who's Number 1? ESPN Counts Down the 20 Greatest Boxers of All Time
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
not in any order because hate putting them in order because its so hard and i hate putting one boxer above another :( anyway here is my 20 not in any order
muhammad ali
sugar ray robinson
henry armstrong
willie pep
salvador sanchez
roy jones
joe louis
julio cesar chavez
roberto duran
alexis arguello
carloz monzon
marvin hagler
sugar ray leonard
larry holmes
archie moore
jimmy wilde
ricardo lopez
thomas hearns
oscar delahoya
khaosai galaxy
ones that i think will be top 20 one day
winky wright
manny pac
floyd mayweather
jermain taylor
joe calzaghe if he gets right fights
i tried my best struggled at the end because my boxing knowledge isnt as good as some of you guys
I dont see how joe calzaghe will ever get in his best years are gone and he still taking on the like of a 'contender' tv average fighter in manfredo. Dont see jermaine taylor either getting there not in the top 20 no way or winky or pacquiou for that matter. ok hes good but beat two old fighters in MAB & EM with a de=raw against marquez soi that is'nt greatness and IMO he will never get in the top 20.
Re: Who's Number 1? ESPN Counts Down the 20 Greatest Boxers of All Time
Quote:
Originally Posted by tubbc
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
not in any order because hate putting them in order because its so hard and i hate putting one boxer above another :( anyway here is my 20 not in any order
muhammad ali
sugar ray robinson
henry armstrong
willie pep
salvador sanchez
roy jones
joe louis
julio cesar chavez
roberto duran
alexis arguello
carloz monzon
marvin hagler
sugar ray leonard
larry holmes
archie moore
jimmy wilde
ricardo lopez
thomas hearns
oscar delahoya
khaosai galaxy
ones that i think will be top 20 one day
winky wright
manny pac
floyd mayweather
jermain taylor
joe calzaghe if he gets right fights
i tried my best struggled at the end because my boxing knowledge isnt as good as some of you guys
I dont see how joe calzaghe will ever get in his best years are gone and he still taking on the like of a 'contender' tv average fighter in manfredo. Dont see jermaine taylor either getting there not in the top 20 no way or winky or pacquiou for that matter. ok hes good but beat two old fighters in MAB & EM with a de=raw against marquez soi that is'nt greatness and IMO he will never get in the top 20.
i said * if he gets right fights* but anyway it all depends if each of these guys get the right defining fights
Re: Who's Number 1? ESPN Counts Down the 20 Greatest Boxers of All Time
My top 10 1.Joe Louis 2.Sugar Ray Robinson 3. Rocky Marciano 4.Roy Jones Jr 5.Sugar Ray Leonard 6.Marvin Hagler 7.M.Ali 8.JC.Chavez 9.Archie Moore 10.Larry Holmes and Questionable mentioning, ButterBean, John Ruiz and Bruce Seldon.
Re: Who's Number 1? ESPN Counts Down the 20 Greatest Boxers of All Time
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDukeof74
My top 10 1.Joe Louis 2.Sugar Ray Robinson 3. Rocky Marciano 4.Roy Jones Jr 5.Sugar Ray Leonard 6.Marvin Hagler 7.M.Ali 8.JC.Chavez 9.Archie Moore 10.Larry Holmes and Questionable mentioning, ButterBean, John Ruiz and Bruce Seldon.
Butterbean Questionable???.....C'mon now lets be fair here...He is the greatest 4 round fighter ever...He said so... :P
Re: Who's Number 1? ESPN Counts Down the 20 Greatest Boxers of All Time
My Top Ten since 1945
Why since 1945? Because I actually witnessed each listed boxer fight at one time or another (EXCEPT mONZONE), and I don't mean by video. Of course, I carefully analyzed their records, ko percentages, skill-sets, the era in which they fought, entire body of work, quality of opposition and other important criteria as well.
1) Sugar Ray Robinson. 175 - 19 - 6- 2 with 109 ko's. In a career that spanned three decades, Sugar Ray embodied the essence of the sweet science. He was a world welterweight champion and held the middleweight title five times. Incredibly, he was so great for so long that he won his first Fighter of the Year award in 1942 and his second award in 1951. The fact I don't have to say much says it all.
2) Joe "The Brown Bomber" Louis, 69 - 3 with 55 ko's. Joe successfully defended his title an astounding 25 times.One punch KO power, very economical and never wasted a punch. He fought such great as Charles, Walcott, Schmeling, Max Baer, Buddy Baer, Billy Conn and many other tough customers. In 1950 he returned to the ring, but after a series of wins, was knocked out in 1951 by contender Rocky Marciano, after which he permanently retired. When I was a kid, Joe Louis was everyone's hero. And even as a young, albeit observant, child, I was amazed at how much power he could generate with such a short punch and just how fast he threw that punch. Heck, he "invented" the one-two.
3) Guglielmo Papaleo aka Willie Pep, W 230 - 11 - 1 with 65 ko's. Nicknamed "WILL O the Wisp" for his elusiveness, Pep is considered one of boxing's all-time great artists. Legend has it that he once won a round without throwing a punch. He held the featherweight title for six years and outboxed all comers. He is best remembered for his physical and dirty four-fight series against fellow Hall-of-Famer Sandy Saddler. He turned pro in 1940 and won his first 63 fights. In 1952, he won the featherweight title by decisioning Chalky Wright. His first loss came the following year when he dropped a non-title fight to former lightweight champion Sammy Angott.
4) Carlos "Escopeta" Monzone. 87 - 3 - 9 with 59 ko's. He captured the World Middleweight Boxing Championship in a shocking upset over the highly favored Nino Benvenuti. Overnight, he became the toast of the boxing world. Handsome and macho, he became a superstar and a favorite of the jet set. He also became only the second man to stop former three-time world champion Emile Griffith in 14 rounds He was unbeaten over the last 81 bouts of his career, a span of 13 years! Sadly, Monzon, like Sanchez, died in an car accident in 1995.
5) Muhammad Ali. 56-5 with 37 Ko's. He was the dominant fighter of the 1960s and 1970s. A fighter of exceptional speed and flair, he won the world heavyweight title on three separate occasions over a period of 15 years, but his trilogy with Kenny Norton, two mediocre fights against Leon Spinks and controversial wins against Henry Cooper and Jimmy Young tarnished, at least to some degree, his nickname. On the other hand, his two hard fought wins against Joe Frazier, his wins over Sonny Liston, and his upset of George Foreman truly enhanced his reputation. His wins against Shavers, Lyle, Williams and Quarry were memorable as well. His fight against an old Zora Folley at Madison Square Garden in 1967 perhaps showcased him at his brilliant best.
6) Larry "The Easton Assassin" Holmes. 69 - 6 with 44 Ko's. Holmes, an "old school" type, was always ready and eager to enter the ring, sometimes fighting nine times in one year. Arguably, his was the best jab in modern boxing history. The "Assassin" never backed down from any contender throughout his career. His second loss to Michael Spinks is considered among the worse decisions in boxing history. The quality of his opposition was arguably greater than that of any other fighter with the possible exception of Evander Holyfield. It included guys like Mike Weaver, Oliver McCall. Michael Spinks, Jerry Cooney, Mike Tyson, Ray Mercer, Carl Williams, James 'Bonecrusher' Smith, Tim Witherspoon, Renaldo Snipes, Trevor Berbick, Muhammad Ali, Ernie Shavers, Ken Norton, Roy "Tiger" Williams, Brian Nielsen, and Evander Holyfield.
7) Marvelous Marvin Hagler. 62 - 3 - 2 with 52 ko's. The quintessential "blue collar" fighter, the rugged Hagler was known for his great work ethic and fierce looks. He often traveled to other fighters' hometowns for fights and some of his most memorable pre-title competition came in boxing-crazy Philadelphia. Hagler made 12 successful title defenses. Among his victims were Vito Antuofermo,Tony Sibson, Fulgencio Obelmejias, Mustafa Hamsho, Wilford Scypion, Roberto Duran, Juan Roldan, and John Mugabi. His thrilling three-round unmitigated shootout with Thomas Hearns is regarded as one of the best fights of all-time. He did one thing very well and that was to win.
8) Sugar Ray Leonard. 35 - 3-1 with 25 ko's. Like Ali, he was equipped with speed, ability and charisma, Sugar Ray Leonard filled the boxing void left when Muhammad Ali retired in 1981. With the American public in search of a new boxing superstar, Leonard came along at just the right moment. An Olympic Gold Medal winner, he was named Fighter of the Decade for the 1980s. He won an unprecedented five world titles in five weight classes and competed in some of the era's most memorable bouts. He beat Hearns, Hagler, Duran and Benitez, Kalule and that alone is a platform for entry into the Hall of Fame. There were few better and more ruthless closers in boxing history.
9) Roberto "Manos de Piedra" Duran 103 -16 with 70 ko's. Regarded by many as the greatest lightweight of all-time and one of the top 5 best pound for pound fighters ever. He held world titles at four different weights: lightweight (1972-79), welterweight (1980), junior middleweight (1983-84) and middleweight (1989). He was also the only boxer to have fought in five different decades. After he mounted a comeback, he beat hall of Famer Pepino Cuevas by knock-out. Against WBA Junior middleweight champion Davey Moore in June 1983, he showed his savage side by trying to deliberately hurt him as much as possible. Finally, the fight was stopped in the eighth round as Moore was taking a horrific bloody beating. Duran had won his third world title and the crowd was up and roaring, "Dooooooran, Dooooooran...." He later beat Iran "The Blade" Barkley to cop his final championship.
10) Bernard "The Executioner" Hopkins. 47- 4-1-1 with 32 ko's. Through the late 90's and early 2000's, contender after top contender fell at his hands. After losing two controversial decisions to Jermain Taylor, he came back in June 2006 to brutalize Antonio Tarver over 12 rounds and win the IBO Light Heavyweight Title and end his great career with another demonstration of ring artistry. Excellent skills, movement and punching power, versatility (he could fight aggressively or counterpunch), deceptive hand speed, accurate combinations, old school toughness and durable, physically strong and always in top shape, great defensive skills and successful at the highest levels of competition. What more is there to say?The difference between Hopkins and other above is hair thin. If he decides to fight on and beat a Calzaghe or a reputable heavyweight as he sometimes hints at, he will move up on this list.
Re: Who's Number 1? ESPN Counts Down the 20 Greatest Boxers of All Time
Crazy to see some people list Duran so high, #15, #16.
IMO hes top 5.
Re: Who's Number 1? Best Boxers
Quote:
Originally Posted by amat
Quote:
Originally Posted by beds
cc.
i will be honest and admit i cant do a list of 20 as my knowledge of older boxers isnt that of most on here so i wont even try but i think maybe RJJ and Hopkins could squeeze in.
Jones I disagree on, but Hopkins could very well slide into 20-15, I would have him at about 21 ;)
wat makes hopkins more credible then jones?
Re: Who's Number 1? ESPN Counts Down the 20 Greatest Boxers of All Time
Although I respect everyone's opinions here,there is absolutely no fooking way Oscar De La Hoya is in the greatest 20 fighters that have ever lived,absolutely NO WAY! Just no! I'm sorry but I don't see it.and as great as B Hop is,I would not have him in front of Monzon,or JCC and definitely in the top 20 for me. Great record but all these other guys from history have a much much better record.I'll put mine up later.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wacko3205
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaxxKahn
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
I may sound stupid asking this but it's how I'll learn,what is the difference between greatest and best??Best as in your personal best and greatest as greatest for achievements/all time? CC's for the lists,I have not seen enough old fights to make 1 yet,but I know all the fighters you guys names so my knowlege is getting better!
Actually it is a good question....I always consider the best a temporary thing,,,,one guy can be the best today EG Floyd Mayweather still undefeated...but a fight later a different guy could be because he one upped him...EG Pacquio beats Morales twice but all time greatest is a bit more thought into....I go by achievements over their whole career...do the top moments outweigh the bad...How have their accomplishmets as a whole add up not just a single part of their careers....EG Ali loses to Berbick...in a current situation that would drop him down in the P4P ranks because he lost to a low quality fighter but over his career...he beat guys like Liston, Frazier, Foreman, Folley, Patterson....
Hope that helps a little
El Gamo...there's never a stupid question when you learn an answer.
Good assestment Daxx my man...but you made one fatal error & I
highlighted it for you.
You must keep up with the Saddo tradition. You have to post it like this : Hope this helps.
It conveys the sarcasm of the veteran posters of yesteryear & also conveys a little bit of compasion by saying that you sincerly hope you helped...actually...it's more about the sarcasm. ;D
So...I hope that helped. Heh heh heh. ;)
LMAO,thanks guys and yeah,Wacko's right,Daxx you CANNOT say hope that helps a little?!!
Re: Who's Number 1? ESPN Counts Down the 20 Greatest Boxers of All Time
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Although I respect everyone's opinions here,there is absolutely no fooking way Oscar De La Hoya is in the greatest 20 fighters that have ever lived,absolutely NO WAY! Just no! I'm sorry but I don't see it.and as great as B Hop is,I would not have him in front of Monzon,or JCC and definitely in the top 20 for me. Great record but all these other guys from history have a much much better record.I'll put mine up later.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wacko3205
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaxxKahn
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
I may sound stupid asking this but it's how I'll learn,what is the difference between greatest and best??Best as in your personal best and greatest as greatest for achievements/all time? CC's for the lists,I have not seen enough old fights to make 1 yet,but I know all the fighters you guys names so my knowlege is getting better!
Actually it is a good question....I always consider the best a temporary thing,,,,one guy can be the best today EG Floyd Mayweather still undefeated...but a fight later a different guy could be because he one upped him...EG Pacquio beats Morales twice but all time greatest is a bit more thought into....I go by achievements over their whole career...do the top moments outweigh the bad...How have their accomplishmets as a whole add up not just a single part of their careers....EG Ali loses to Berbick...in a current situation that would drop him down in the P4P ranks because he lost to a low quality fighter but over his career...he beat guys like Liston, Frazier, Foreman, Folley, Patterson....
Hope that helps a little
El Gamo...there's never a stupid question when you learn an answer.
Good assestment Daxx my man...but you made one fatal error & I
highlighted it for you.
You must keep up with the Saddo tradition. You have to post it like this : Hope this helps.
It conveys the sarcasm of the veteran posters of yesteryear & also conveys a little bit of compasion by saying that you sincerly hope you helped...actually...it's more about the sarcasm. ;D
So...I hope that helped. Heh heh heh. ;)
LMAO,thanks guys and yeah,Wacko's right,Daxx you CANNOT say hope that helps a little?!!
i only put oscar in to fill list bro because i run out of fighters couldnt think of no more lol
