Re: Hatton-Urango has been signed:predictions??
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Originally Posted by shza
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Originally Posted by maracho
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Originally Posted by shza
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Originally Posted by maracho
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Originally Posted by shza
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Originally Posted by maracho
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Originally Posted by galaxy76
Sorry bro missed out the N should be
www.thering-online.com. I'm sayong he's the champion at Jr. Welterweight. Forget the alphabet crap. The ring championship can only be won & lost in the ring & there is only one champion per division. The only way a champion can lose their title is to relinquish it or lose it in a fight.
Man you sure tried to slither out of that one but I will give you the benefit of the doubt. However your and your ring magazine rankings are fraudulent because although Hatton is up there at the top he has not come even a little bit close to being as successful at junior welter as Castillo. cotto should be ranked higher than Hatton as well.
This is just more favoritism and manipulation and once again you are part of the problem!
dude, what are you talking about? there's no favoritism or manipulation going on there. tszyu was the recognized champ at 140. hatton beat him. no one's beaten hatton at 140 since. therefore hatton is the champ at 140. cotto hasn't beaten hatton (or tszyu before him), and castillo HASN'T EVEN FOUGHT AT JUNIOR WELTER!
It is your your ring rankings and practically every other ranking that has Costillo at junior welter so what the heck are y'all talking about and by the way Costillo has fought all the way up to 147 which if you have not noticed is welterweight. Most of Costillo's significat fights were at lightweight but Cotto's have been at juior welter and were much more impressive in my mind than Hatton's.
Dang I am surprised that some of you aren't claiming your PBF of the reigning champ of all the weights he has fought or I guese you probably will
the point remains: hatton beat the junior welter champ and hasn't lost since. neither cotto nor castillo did. it couldn't be any simpler. if you're going to respond, respond to that. and the rankings all list castillo as a jr. welter now because he's publicly stated that he's moving up from lightweight now that he can't make weight there anymore. but he's yet to fight since making this announcement.
Ok
I guese since in reality Clottey beat Baldomir to a pulp that Clottey is actually the welterweight champ and after Margarito beats Clottey then Margarito will actually be recognised as welterweight champ?
Oh and please tell me why you dont recognize Floyed as junior welterweight champ even though he moved up or mabe you cant because as usual Floyed never faces the best such as Kostya?
i can't believe how dense you are. i can understand someone being confused about the alphabet rankings or something, but the concept of one champion per division, who only becomes champion by beating the former champion, and only loses the championship by losing a fight or abandoning the division is a very clean and simple concept.
i'll try one last time to clear up your misunderstandings. if you still don't get it, i'm afraid you just lack the aptitude. maybe galaxy can try to explain to you if he still has any patience.
1. Clottey was DQ'd and thus didn't get an official victory.
2. More importantly, Baldomir wasn't the champ at that time anyway--not until he beat the former champ, Zab Judah, who became champ by beating WW champ Cory Spinks.
Re PBF--maybe you're starting to get this very simple concept of the true, linear championship. Yes, PBF was never the Jr. Welter champ because he never beat the true Jr. Welter Champ (at the time, Kostya Tszyu). Even if he had, though, he would have abandoned that title when he moved up to campaign exclusively at 147.
Actually the problem lies in your inability to realize that I am toying with your own denial. How can You fail to admit that Ricky abandoned (your own words) his junior welter title to fight at welter. Since you and galaxy are being so anal about your own little conception of the rules I will point you back to the "simple concept" and real rules that the title is now vacant.
Re: Hatton-Urango has been signed:predictions??
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Originally Posted by maracho
Actually the problem lies in your inability to realize that I am toying with your own denial. How can You fail to admit that Ricky abandoned (your own words) his junior welter title to fight at welter. Since you and galaxy are being so anal about your own little conception of the rules I will point you back to the "simple concept" and real rules that the title is now vacant.
you're not toying with anyone. going up to fight one fight at a higher weight class doesn't consitute or necessitate abandoning the lower weight class title. if he'd gone up to stay at Jr. Welter permanently, that would be another thing. he never said he was doing that, and it's clear from this fight against urango that he isn't doing that. plenty of fighters in the past have simultaneously fought (and defended championships) in multiple weightclasses at the same time. if after this fight he says, ok, i'm done with jr. welter and finishes his career at welter, then the jr. welter title will be vacant.
hope this helps.
Re: Hatton-Urango has been signed:predictions??
As interesting as you guys debate it has has totally confused me!! So,how does the ing decide who the true champ is? By deciding which belt is the most important? Help me with this,say hatton has 1 belt and 3 other guys hold the other 3 belts,Hatton moves up and then comes back,who is the true champ acording to Ring?
Re: Hatton-Urango has been signed:predictions??
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Originally Posted by El Phenomena
As interesting as you guys debate it has has totally confused me!! So,how does the ing decide who the true champ is? By deciding which belt is the most important? Help me with this,say hatton has 1 belt and 3 other guys hold the other 3 belts,Hatton moves up and then comes back,who is the true champ acording to Ring?
The alphabet straps are completely irrelevant. Hatton is the true champ because he beat the true champ, Kostya Tszyu. Period, full stop.
I'm still working on this one, but Game/El Phenomena, are you sure "Maracho" isn't just your obnoxious second account alter-ego? I mean, maybe he really is just some other guy that has all the same viewpoints and questions but can't help state them in the most annoying way. But sometimes I wonder.... :detective:
Re: Hatton-Urango has been signed:predictions??
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Originally Posted by shza
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Originally Posted by maracho
Actually the problem lies in your inability to realize that I am toying with your own denial. How can You fail to admit that Ricky abandoned (your own words) his junior welter title to fight at welter. Since you and galaxy are being so anal about your own little conception of the rules I will point you back to the "simple concept" and real rules that the title is now vacant.
you're not toying with anyone. going up to fight one fight at a higher weight class doesn't consitute or necessitate abandoning the lower weight class title. if he'd gone up to stay at Jr. Welter permanently, that would be another thing. he never said he was doing that, and it's clear from this fight against urango that he isn't doing that. plenty of fighters in the past have simultaneously fought (and defended championships) in multiple weightclasses at the same time. if after this fight he says, ok, i'm done with jr. welter and finishes his career at welter, then the jr. welter title will be vacant.
hope this helps.
Oh so that is the way it should be--just move up a weight class, fight for a big money belt and screw all those other guys who have been waiting and battleing for years to get there. Why not, when your with HBO or Showtime you can do what ever friggin you want including the use of wrestling moves if that what it takes to make HBO happy.
Shizu, thanks for letting us all know who you represent and what your trying to justify.
Re: Hatton-Urango has been signed:predictions??
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Originally Posted by shza
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Originally Posted by El Phenomena
As interesting as you guys debate it has has totally confused me!! So,how does the ing decide who the true champ is? By deciding which belt is the most important? Help me with this,say hatton has 1 belt and 3 other guys hold the other 3 belts,Hatton moves up and then comes back,who is the true champ acording to Ring?
The alphabet straps are completely irrelevant. Hatton is the true champ because he beat the true champ, Kostya Tszyu. Period, full stop.
I'm still working on this one, but Game/El Phenomena, are you sure "Maracho" isn't just your obnoxious second account alter-ego? I mean, maybe he really is just some other guy that has all the same viewpoints and questions but can't help state them in the most annoying way. But sometimes I wonder.... :detective:
Did you just sad click me over that?!?! Hell no,I'm my own man,Maracho likes Margarito,I like Margarito,end of! and I asked a simple question,which you did not answer,and I was asking as I have no idea how the ring thing works soooo..... ::**
Re: Hatton-Urango has been signed:predictions??
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Originally Posted by El Phenomena
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Originally Posted by shza
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Originally Posted by El Phenomena
As interesting as you guys debate it has has totally confused me!! So,how does the ing decide who the true champ is? By deciding which belt is the most important? Help me with this,say hatton has 1 belt and 3 other guys hold the other 3 belts,Hatton moves up and then comes back,who is the true champ acording to Ring?
The alphabet straps are completely irrelevant. Hatton is the true champ because he beat the true champ, Kostya Tszyu. Period, full stop.
I'm still working on this one, but Game/El Phenomena, are you sure "Maracho" isn't just your obnoxious second account alter-ego? I mean, maybe he really is just some other guy that has all the same viewpoints and questions but can't help state them in the most annoying way. But sometimes I wonder.... :detective:
Did you just sad click me over that?!?! Hell no,I'm my own man,Maracho likes Margarito,I like Margarito,end of! and I asked a simple question,which you did not answer,and I was asking as I have no idea how the ring thing works soooo..... ::**
Yeah Shiza just clicked me too but who gives a rats booty for he is just a pawn of those we expose.
Re: Hatton-Urango has been signed:predictions??
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Originally Posted by El Phenomena
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Originally Posted by shza
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Originally Posted by El Phenomena
As interesting as you guys debate it has has totally confused me!! So,how does the ing decide who the true champ is? By deciding which belt is the most important? Help me with this,say hatton has 1 belt and 3 other guys hold the other 3 belts,Hatton moves up and then comes back,who is the true champ acording to Ring?
The alphabet straps are completely irrelevant. Hatton is the true champ because he beat the true champ, Kostya Tszyu. Period, full stop.
I'm still working on this one, but Game/El Phenomena, are you sure "Maracho" isn't just your obnoxious second account alter-ego? I mean, maybe he really is just some other guy that has all the same viewpoints and questions but can't help state them in the most annoying way. But sometimes I wonder.... :detective:
Did you just sad click me over that?!?! Hell no,I'm my own man,Maracho likes Margarito,I like Margarito,end of! and I asked a simple question,which you did not answer,and I was asking as I have no idea how the ring thing works soooo..... ::**
didn't sad click you, but it looks like someone (you? maracho?) got me about three times there.
i thought i did answer your question though. i wasn't trying to be an asshole. the ring decides who the true champ is by looking at who won the true championship by beating the former champ. generally, you can only become the man by beating the man, as it were.
maybe you're asking what happens if someone actually does abandon the title to go up in weight. maracho's been pushing on this one, and admittedly things do get a bit dicey there, since there's some line that constitutes "abandonment" that it's tough to fully describe.
Like, Hatton seemed to be saying that he intended to compete in both the Jr. Welter and WW divisions, and seems to be doing just that, so The Ring doesn't consider him to have abandoned his Jr. Welter title. But if he had stayed at WW after the Collazo fight and not fought at Jr. Welter for a year (or maybe it's 13 mos. or something--they have a policy), then he'd be deemed to have abandoned the title and it would be vacant. Or to take an easier example, if B-Hop--the current LH champ (by virtue of beating ex-champ Tarver) really does stay retired, as it appears he will, that title will be open.
In that case (vacant title), a fight between the #1 and #2--or in some cases #1 and #3 (this is what happened in Calzaghe/Lacy--JC was #1 and Lacy #3 going in, since there had never been a Ring SMW champ prior to that fight; and I'll be the first to admit that I have no idea what makes a 1 vs. 3 a championship fight in some circumstances but not others) determines the new champ.
So I'll admit there are a few places where there's some play in the Ring system--though I was less willing to lay it all out there for maracho since he seemed more concerned with being provocative than actually figuring anything out. still, overall, I still think it's a hell of a lot simpler than trying to determine anything based on having at least 4 alphabet organizations, each with its own belt, each with its own rankings (based largely on fees), and each of which requires fighters to pay for belts in addition to winning them (so we end up with, e.g., Zab Judah retaining the IBF title coming off a loss to Baldomir).
Anyway, I meant no offense. I just had a feeling on the maracho thing, but if I'm wrong, I'm wrong. Apologies, and have a CC.
Re: Hatton-Urango has been signed:predictions??
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Originally Posted by maracho
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Originally Posted by El Phenomena
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Originally Posted by shza
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Originally Posted by El Phenomena
As interesting as you guys debate it has has totally confused me!! So,how does the ing decide who the true champ is? By deciding which belt is the most important? Help me with this,say hatton has 1 belt and 3 other guys hold the other 3 belts,Hatton moves up and then comes back,who is the true champ acording to Ring?
The alphabet straps are completely irrelevant. Hatton is the true champ because he beat the true champ, Kostya Tszyu. Period, full stop.
I'm still working on this one, but Game/El Phenomena, are you sure "Maracho" isn't just your obnoxious second account alter-ego? I mean, maybe he really is just some other guy that has all the same viewpoints and questions but can't help state them in the most annoying way. But sometimes I wonder.... :detective:
Did you just sad click me over that?!?! Hell no,I'm my own man,Maracho likes Margarito,I like Margarito,end of! and I asked a simple question,which you did not answer,and I was asking as I have no idea how the ring thing works soooo..... ::**
Yeah Shiza just clicked me too but who gives a rats booty for he is just a pawn of those we expose.
I did click you, this is true. You are being an asshole, as usual.
Re: Hatton-Urango has been signed:predictions??
We got to get a title for our little white hope but Rabah is the easiest guy out there yet he is slicker than Collazo. Hmmm if only we could get him in against a tough guy like maybe Urango to boost his marketability. Hmmm, but Urango doesn't have a title. Hmmmm, we can fix that at the casino.
Really though I love Ricky but not who he associated with.
Re: Hatton-Urango has been signed:predictions??
CC back SHZA bro,it's cool and trust me Maracho is his own man and I am my own!! I'm not some sad loser who would do somthing like that man! I dont even knbow how the heck that would work,I mean how would I be online at the same time as him? ??? I asked because I genuinely did not understand that Ring stuff but 1 more things, like I said,say 4 different fighters each hold a belt,which does the ring decide is the true belt? Who would be the man in this senario? I don't mean to sound like an ass either but you know what you are talking ahout and I want to learn!
Re: Hatton-Urango has been signed:predictions??
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Originally Posted by shza
I did click you, this is true. You are being an asshole, as usual.
Wow the moderators forgot to moderate--they must agree.
Hey I am going to do a little investigating on your Ring so thanks for the tip
Re: Hatton-Urango has been signed:predictions??
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Phenomena
CC back SHZA bro,it's cool and trust me Maracho is his own man and I am my own!! I'm not some sad loser who would do somthing like that man! I dont even knbow how the heck that would work,I mean how would I be online at the same time as him? ??? I asked because I genuinely did not understand that Ring stuff but 1 more things, like I said,say 4 different fighters each hold a belt,which does the ring decide is the true belt? Who would be the man in this senario? I don't mean to sound like an ass either but you know what you are talking ahout and I want to learn!
Hey, I believe you on the maracho thing--no need to convince me any further. I don't doubt your word, you've always been totally civil even when we disagree, and I'm sorry I even threw that out there.
What I meant when I said the alphabet titles are irrelevant to the Ring ratings/linear championship was just that, ok, in your scenario--which is kind of like what we have at MW right now, right?, it doesn't matter that Abraham has the IBF title, Catillejo has the WBA title and Taylor has the other two. Even if Taylor didn't have any alphabet title at all, he'd still be the champ, because he beat Hopkins (controverially, sure, but officially it counts), and hasn't lost or left the division since. The fact that he doesn't have the IBF or WBA titles just illustrates how messed up the alphabet systems are--he had those titles and no one beat him for them. They were taken from him because he chose to take the fights that the fans wanted against the toughest guys out there--a rematch against B-Hop (contractually required, too) and a fight against Winky. Everyone was happier to see those fights than see JT duck those opponents to fight bs mandatories--everyone except the IBF or WBA apparently.
Re: Hatton-Urango has been signed:predictions??
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Originally Posted by shza
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Originally Posted by El Phenomena
CC back SHZA bro,it's cool and trust me Maracho is his own man and I am my own!! I'm not some sad loser who would do somthing like that man! I dont even knbow how the heck that would work,I mean how would I be online at the same time as him? ??? I asked because I genuinely did not understand that Ring stuff but 1 more things, like I said,say 4 different fighters each hold a belt,which does the ring decide is the true belt? Who would be the man in this senario? I don't mean to sound like an ass either but you know what you are talking ahout and I want to learn!
Hey, I believe you on the maracho thing--no need to convince me any further. I don't doubt your word, you've always been totally civil even when we disagree, and I'm sorry I even threw that out there.
What I meant when I said the alphabet titles are irrelevant to the Ring ratings/linear championship was just that, ok, in your scenario--which is kind of like what we have at MW right now, right?, it doesn't matter that Abraham has the IBF title, Catillejo has the WBA title and Taylor has the other two. Even if Taylor didn't have any alphabet title at all, he'd still be the champ, because he beat Hopkins (controverially, sure, but officially it counts), and hasn't lost or left the division since. The fact that he doesn't have the IBF or WBA titles just illustrates how messed up the alphabet systems are--he had those titles and no one beat him for them. They were taken from him because he chose to take the fights that the fans wanted against the toughest guys out there--a rematch against B-Hop (contractually required, too) and a fight against Winky. Everyone was happier to see those fights than see JT duck those opponents to fight bs mandatories--everyone except the IBF or WBA apparently.
Riiiiiight,ok,now I understand but if you follow this,does it mean that you don't think Floyd is a 4 weight world champ because technically speaking(sorry if I'm making a mistake here)but Tszyu was the man,Hatton beat him,Hatton was the man,Gatti had alphabet soup which to Ring has no relevence. Just curious to see where you stand on that.....
Re: Hatton-Urango has been signed:predictions??
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Originally Posted by El Phenomena
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Originally Posted by shza
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Originally Posted by El Phenomena
CC back SHZA bro,it's cool and trust me Maracho is his own man and I am my own!! I'm not some sad loser who would do somthing like that man! I dont even knbow how the heck that would work,I mean how would I be online at the same time as him? ??? I asked because I genuinely did not understand that Ring stuff but 1 more things, like I said,say 4 different fighters each hold a belt,which does the ring decide is the true belt? Who would be the man in this senario? I don't mean to sound like an ass either but you know what you are talking ahout and I want to learn!
Hey, I believe you on the maracho thing--no need to convince me any further. I don't doubt your word, you've always been totally civil even when we disagree, and I'm sorry I even threw that out there.
What I meant when I said the alphabet titles are irrelevant to the Ring ratings/linear championship was just that, ok, in your scenario--which is kind of like what we have at MW right now, right?, it doesn't matter that Abraham has the IBF title, Catillejo has the WBA title and Taylor has the other two. Even if Taylor didn't have any alphabet title at all, he'd still be the champ, because he beat Hopkins (controverially, sure, but officially it counts), and hasn't lost or left the division since. The fact that he doesn't have the IBF or WBA titles just illustrates how messed up the alphabet systems are--he had those titles and no one beat him for them. They were taken from him because he chose to take the fights that the fans wanted against the toughest guys out there--a rematch against B-Hop (contractually required, too) and a fight against Winky. Everyone was happier to see those fights than see JT duck those opponents to fight bs mandatories--everyone except the IBF or WBA apparently.
Riiiiiight,ok,now I understand but if you follow this,does it mean that you don't think Floyd is a 4 weight world champ because technically speaking(sorry if I'm making a mistake here)but Tszyu was the man,Hatton beat him,Hatton was the man,Gatti had alphabet soup which to Ring has no relevence. Just curious to see where you stand on that.....
In a word, yes. I don't consider Floyd a 4 weight world champ. A 4 weight beltholder, maybe, but not a 4 weight true linear champ. He's currently a 1-weight linear champ (at LW), and if he beats Baldomir that'll be the second.
